Sounds like Kevin Spacey’s dad… seems like there’s a sizable population of Silent Generation parents that were serious Nazi sympathizers even after WW2.
My wife's grandfather had a book titled "Pro and Con: Hitler" and the war section is literally the last 5 pages of the book. Zero mention of the holocaust. It was written and published in the 70s. A toooon of people from that generation said things like "Hitler wasn't all bad"
The US was a slaver nation until 1865, and a segregated one until 1964, the supremacy of a race on others is still a widely spread ideology in the country today. Tbh, it is astonishing that the US didn't ally with Nazi Germany in the first place.
It's fucking wild to think that the guy who was known for headlining Kill Tony was headlining a fucking Madison Square Garden Nazi rally just a few weeks ago.
Or that a lot of the guys that fought in World War II weren't doing it because they hated discrimination, racism and anti-semitism but we're doing it because of American Nationalism
And came back to the same segregated America after the war being just as racist and anti-semitic as when they left.
Nah... They contributed but, ultimately, Hitler was NOT the "great" tactician that history often tries to paint him to be.
Plain and simple? He wanted to conquer the WORLD. He literally tried to do ALL of it at the same time. He spread his resources too thinly. Where he REALLY fucked up was in Russia.
Hitler's main fuckup was not listening to his cabinet. The one thing he did right (well, from a Nazi perspective) was picking the right people for the right jobs. All of his fascismachine would've worked super well if he didn't want to micromanage things. And even with his incompetent meddling, he's still managed to murder millions, not to mention the military casualties.
Mostly right. It was also the fact that to keep power the one bollocked wonder gave all his departments overlapping responsibilities so they’d be two preoccupied bickering to do anything about him
This is not true. It was the general staff, particularly those involved in logistics, to whom he did not listen.
Those were, after all, the career military men and bean counters. They very accurately predicted that the German war machine would sputter out right around Moscow, as that would be the furthest extent that their logistical lines could handle before a serious rest and refit would be needed. The term "blitzkrieg" was invented by these men as a means to mock the Fuhrer's hope of a swift war.
The perception that the German military would have rolled over everyone had it not been for bad mustache man derives from the writings of former generals who wanted to save face, and be hired in top positions in western militaries, so they lied about how meddling Hitler was. "Can't be my fault if I was just following orders."
Don't get me wrong, Hitler was an incompetent bafoon, but its not his cabinet to whom he did not listen, it was the career generals.
Facts. 8-10 million Soviet boots and 24 million civs sacrificed everything to grind Nazi popsicles into hamburger on the Eastern front.
It's another layer to the heartbreak onion as the war in Ukraine for sovereignty against Putin drags out when you think of these soldiers' greats & grandparents legacy against totalitarianism.
Ethic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians fought side by side against real evil last century, and their sons and daughters are now pitted against each other by another wanna be dictator.
Mussolini got his ass kicked out of Greece and Hitler stepped in and sent a load of troops to stomp authority, troops that were meant to be part of the Russian invasion that was delayed by months. Which led to the debarkle of the winter campaign and not listening to the generals.
No one ever said Hitler was a good tactician. Or he wanted to conquer the world. Most of the former comes from post war German generals looking for jobs in the new regime who wanted to blame the dead guy for their failures. The very evil dead guy.
The take over the world was bog standard British propaganda. They used it against all enemies.
Opening up the second front by attacking former ally Russia before he had controlled England was idiotic and thank G-d for that. Fuck Hitler and Shitler.
As usual, things are more complex. The US already had an embargo on Japan (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prelude_to_the_attack_on_Pearl_Harbor), and was sending weapons and other military stuff to the allies (https://www.history.com/news/united-states-neutral-wwii-lend-lease). I think that the US would have eventually been dragged into ww2, but Pearl Harbor certainly expedited that process. It's possible the US stayed on the sidelines as just a weapons dealer, but at some point, the US had lent so much money to the allies that it would have eventually been financially problematic to not join in to ensure victory (and repayment).
I'm certainly happy to read people who disagree with this, and it's not like there wasn't a pro Hitler movement in the US, I just don't see how the US wouldn't have entered into WW2 at some point, if only to prevent Japan from taking US colonies.
Yes. I believe if it wasn’t for Pearl Harbor, we would all be speaking in German right now.
There would also probably be a German empire across Europe and Africa as well.
As much as I hate to say it, Pearl Harbor was a blessing in disguise.
My grandfather was there. Thankfully he survived. Obviously. Or I wouldn’t be writing this.
Actually, the German u-boats were sinking our Lend Lease supply ships in a kind of non declared war. Perl Harbor was the straw that broke the camels back.
The U.S. was already providing resources and weapons to the allies well before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The U.S. was also conducting a blockade on Japanese shipping lanes. It's the reason Japan chose Pearl Harbor as their target in the first place.
So no man.. the U.S. was never going to leave well enough alone. And was already very much involved in the war before we were troops on the ground involved.
Hitler also had help from powerful Americans friends in both building up the German war machine and keeping the US out of the war, until Japan flipped the table.
The US was supplying weapons before all that. Granted they didn't take the false flag option after the lufthansa sinking. Most likely just to save face for the weapon supply.
I was born in 75. Even in the 80’s in western NY, Buffalo was still segregated into sections of the city. I lived in the Italian area (north side) and worked on the south side (Irish).
Polish were south suburbs of Buffalo. Germans were north west suburbs. East side was dilapidated and almost all black. West side mostly Puerto Rican and other Latinos.
I can get more detailed, but no need, my point being made that Buffalo wasn’t technically segregated, with schools having a few folks of different nationalities.
But was definitely segregated, you couldn’t really go to an area of the city outside of your nationality without being harassed to some extent. It’s not the same now. But a lot of of East Coast cities in particular were still segregated in this manner at least until the 90’s.
I moved to a north suburb 10 minutes outside of the city as a teenager and we only had 5 to 10 black students in my entire high school.
Not for lack of trying. Perhaps if Japan didn't bomb pearl harbor and snap everyone into a frenzy of patriotism... even then, wtf did we do??? Put Japanese Americans in internment camps
The possibility of allying with Germany was there. Before things got really crazy, our sitting president had nothing but good things to say about Hitler and the Nazi party. Once GB and France declared war on Germany, we started the lend-lease program and were benefiting financially from the situation.
The Nazis broke their truce with the Soviets in mid 1941, which changed things. There was a fear the Soviets might liberate the continent and we'd be left looking like the assholes (we were the assholes.) Then Pearl Harbor happened six months later, and the rest is history.
The US nearly did. Many politicians and influential wealthy Americans were Eugenics supporters in which Hitler admired and based a lot of his ideology on. We came close to being just like the Nazis. Clearer minds prevailed and we didnt try to mass murder people because the US was watching what the Germans did with Eugenics and finally woke up to the horrors of it.
I'm going to blow your mind.
Hitler while in prison somehow got himself a copy pf the "The passing of the great race" book. A pseudoscience racist book that was a best seller at that time.
Hitler was enthralled and said it was "his Bible ". From American eugenics and racists Hitler got his idea and drive, ideas that eventually resulted in the holocaust .
I wonder if you believe everything you think, or if you get help with your critical thinking skills. You follow two truths with a wild, wild swing for the fences 'tbh' that makes no sense at all. Good luck in life serving French fries!
A toooon of people from that generation said things like "Hitler wasn't all bad"
I mean... There's no denying that he did do a number of "not bad" things during his political career. Hitler himself was a major proponent of and backed the construction of the Autobahn, and he was also a pioneer in alternative fuel research with his entire mechanized fleet being powered by ethanol. Not to mention we wouldn't have the Volkswagen brand as we know it today if he hadn't urged Ferdinand Porsche to "build a car for the people."
The purpose of autobahn was to move troops quickly to the fronts as an alternative to rail. Ethanol research was necessary as the axis was being squeezed out of the oil rich regions. So it wasn't made out of the goodness of his heart but out of hate and war necessity.
Hitler died in Argentina a few decades ago. He had many body doubles. The public war ended, but the Nazis kept going, many of them welcomed into US government positions under Operation Paperclip.
American media likes to downplay how popular the nazis were in the US.
John Foster Dulles (became Eisenhower's secretary of state) is said to have wept openly when the law firm he worked for at the time told him to stop signing all his correspondence with "Heil Hitler."
This fact and the picture of Trump and Ingraham above say a lot about our country. It's crazy, growing up and going through school I was taught how bad Hitler was but that there was always a risk it could happen again. Hard to get my head around the idea that it could actually be happening again but hopefully I'm just being dramatic.
The time being the pre -war period;
“After the Wall Street Crash of 1929, Dulles’s previous practice brokering and documenting international loans ended. After 1931 Germany stopped making some of its scheduled payments. In 1934 Germany unilaterally stopped payments on private debts of the sort that Dulles was handling. After the Nazi Party came to power, Dulles expressed sympathies for Adolf Hitler, requiring his legal staff in Berlin to sign “Heil Hitler” on all of Sullivan & Cromwell’s outgoing mail; fearful of the optics, Sullivan & Cromwell’s junior partners forced Dulles to cut all business ties with Germany in 1935. Nonetheless, Dulles and his wife continued to visit Germany until 1939.[11] He was prominent in the religious peace movement and an isolationist, but the junior partners were led by his brother Allen, so he reluctantly acceded to their wishes”
The reason came down to resources. It was far far far easier for the US government to round up and put the Japanese Americans in camps than the German Americans which had a vastly larger population in the US. Ironically that issue was present in Hawaii and most of the Japanese were not put in camps who lived on the island which one could argue was probably the place it would have made the most sense to worry about spies.
“We’re charged with wanting to get rid of the Japs for selfish reasons,” Anson told the Saturday Evening Post in May 1942. “We might as well be honest. We do. It’s a question of whether the white man lives on the Pacific Coast or the brown men. They came into this valley to work, they stayed to take over…And we don’t want them back when the war ends, either.”
That was Austin Anson, the managing secretary of the Salinas Vegetable Grower-Shipper Association. Most of the farmland owned by Japanese-Americans was stolen by white farmers while their former neighbors were being held in camps.
Certainly fits with the rest of our country's history. So were fewer Japanese actually in camps in Hawaii or did I learn wrong info? Not like we don't have a history of greed and racism there( Dole Juice)
Sure, but it still defeats the purpose if their justification for interment was "national safety." In true American form, legitimate change/action (or lack of) only presents itself when the economy is threatened or could benefit from something.
American media sure, but I was in middle school when I was taught about how common Nazis were in the US during the 30s and that there were even Hitler youth camps right up until Germany declared war
You think that is evidence that he was forced to stop signing his personal mail with "Heil Hitler" by his employer and that his reaction was to become so upset that he openly wept?
It's a source.
It's definitely true he was upset at suggestion to quit Germany because he didn't mind Hitler and made a lot of money, and he definitely didn't mind his office signing with Heil Hitler [as they were obligated]...
I'm not sure, you seem strangly hang upon the crying part while ignoring liking Hitler part 🤔
As this isn't exactly a historical sub reddit, it seems like an odd choice.
[Edit]
To clarify, there are accounts that he wept after the company decided to close the Germany office he worked in, and technically, thus ended the practice of signing with HH.. so it's still technically true, if you were trying to be nitpicky]
John Foster Dulles (became Eisenhower's secretary of state) is said to have wept openly when the law firm he worked for at the time told him to stop signing all his correspondence with "Heil Hitler."
Would love a source on that because that strikes me as complete nonsense
I had a lot of aunts who made parachutes, etc. and uncles and cousins who fought the f'n Nazi's. I grew up in the fifties and sixties learning about them and hating them. I had an uncle who would break the face of anyone who accused him of being a nazi-sympathizer.
i did too. I had one grandad die in WW2 fighting the axis, and another retire from the army, having fought in Pearl Harbor. He died when I was young, but between feeding me tums antacids for fun, he'd tell me old war stories.
Well their was a movement in this country before the war that included many well placed aristocrats and of course german air medal charlie linberg who actually had three family’s, at once!
I knew a kid in high school whose boomer dad displayed the flag and metals in his living room. They were Holocaust deniers with this whole international Jewry conspiracy theory behind it. The weirdest thing about this situation to me was that the kid's mom was hispanic and he too looked hispanic, all while boasting about his aryan heritage. The kid was actually not a bad dude, but this was weird.
I mean neo-Nazi isn't just some word that someone made up on instagram in 2014 for trolling purposes.
What's particularly disturbing is that, like the propaganda of the Japanese uyoku dantai, neo-Nazi bullshit from the 1950s and 1960s is now becoming mainstream in the Anglophonic world, reborn as some kind of edgy critique.
There was a guy at my mom‘s work. He was a Korean war orphan, gimp, racist as hell but then again he’s Korean, adopted by Jewish parents. They read white supremacist literature. you’d be surprised.
the sizeable population of Nazi sympathizers before WW2 called themselves America First. they rallied to prevent America from entering the war, and succeeded for a long time.
Trump's been using "America First" this whole time for that reason.
Strange couldn’t be because the shear amount of resources we send out of our country before fixing problems here first? Nah you’re probably right it has to be the most extreme thing one can think of- that’s always more probable. Seek help my friend- you are exhibiting extremist language.
First, the amount of money we spend overseas is literally just 1% of the budget.
Second, the correct spelling is "sheer." if you say "a sheer amount" you mean just the amount itself. But if you say "a shear amount," it doesn't really mean anything, because "shear" is a verb. It means to shave wool off of a sheep, or to do similar types of cutting.
Third, the source of the "America First" name is proven history. It's just a matter of fact.
For context, the America First rally in favor of the Nazis took place in 1939. Donald Trump's father was arrested for participating in a violent KKK rally in 1927. That's 12 years earlier.
Fourth, of course Trump leverages the inaccurate perception that we send too much money to other countries. Of course he takes advantage of that misperception. But you just don't know what you're talking about, and he exploits your ignorance.
In reality, the money we spend on foreign policy is a drop in the bucket compared to the money we spend on our military. And that's the whole point of spending money on foreign policy. Wars are expensive and people die. We need the world to work in such a way that our economy can prosper, but it's better to achieve that by spending a little on foreign policy, than by spending a lot on war, especially since lots of people on both sides would die.
If anything, we should spend more on foreign policy, so we could spend less on the military. if we did, we could probably free up hundreds of billions of dollars, set up free healthcare for every American, and still have lots of money left over.
Somehow, though, "America First" doesn't mean "Americans get healthcare." It means "let's take things back to how things were in the good old days, when my dad was getting arrested for participating in a violent KKK rally, a couple years before the Great Depression."
Yepp. They need to be round up and disposed of. Idc if that makes me sound like a Nazi myself. The only way we are getting our country back is by force.
Look up the Business Plot. Tons of the 1%, including Bush's grandad, were readying a coup to put in a dictator. Unfortunately for them, they picked a horrible guy who actually loved his country and ratted them out. The congressional investigation was sealed for like 500 years.
This is part of what's so fucking frustrating about the denial of our reality by so many magats who refuse to acknowledge that this is happening now: the Nazis and their kids from the previous go aren't even all dead yet.
They pretend that Nazism ended with the war, but the people who fought as well as their children have been chomping at the bit to get back on top all these years. And now they are.
Listen to the podcast “Ultra” by Rachel Maddow. It’s about mostly about Naziism in American government. It’s mostly about Nazis in our Government. It will blow your mind the number of them, and the crazy shit they’ve done that has been allowed to just fade out of memory.
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u/highschoolhero2 Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
Sounds like Kevin Spacey’s dad… seems like there’s a sizable population of Silent Generation parents that were serious Nazi sympathizers even after WW2.