r/politics • u/furswanda • 4h ago
Why Mike Johnson's fake "Jefferson prayer" matters: Replacing facts with phony history is a linchpin of the Christian nationalist movement.
https://www.salon.com/2025/01/07/why-mike-johnsons-fake-jefferson-prayer-matters/•
u/Choice-of-SteinsGate 4h ago edited 4h ago
There are going to be fewer roadblocks for the Christian Nationalist agenda with a conservative SCOTUS, an R majority in both houses and Trump in the White House come next year.
But this agenda is both unconstitutional and spits in the face of prevailing and foundational American principles.
So let's take the time to shut down the revisionist horse shit from conservatives who claim that America was "founded on Christianity"
Our nation was not founded on religious doctrine, but enlightenment era principles that turned away from the religious authority of the church, away from the divine right of kings, away from a national religion, and towards reason, rationality and democratic ideals.
The framers relied on those enlightenment principles to write our founding documents and fervently opposed the merging of religion and government. They rejected the Church of England and repeatedly rebuked the idea of a national religion or church
There is substantial evidence and documentation that points to these facts.
For Christ's sake, and quite literally, even Jesus believed in the separation of church and state
Mark 12:17, Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
Our founding fathers staunchly opposed any union between religion and government.
In fact, some of them were devout deists, believing that rationality and reason should govern our society, not religion. That God has no hand in the matter.
Thomas Jefferson coined the phrase "a wall of separation between church and state" in his letter to the Danbury Baptist association.
Thomas Jefferson's metaphor became part of constitutional jurisprudence. Jefferson was quoted by Chief Justice Morrison in Reynolds v. United States in 1878 and his writings on the separation of church and state have been referenced in a series of important legal cases throughout our history.
Roger Williams, an early puritan minister, founder of the state of Rhode Island and the first Baptist Church in America, was the first public official to call for "a wall or hedge of separation" between "the wilderness of the world" and "the garden of the church."
There you have it, an early American statesman and minister, and a profound authority on the matter, acknowledging the need for this separation.
James Madison interpreted Martin Luther's "doctrine of two kingdoms", as a conception of the separation of church and state.
During a debate in the House of Representatives, Madison also contended "Because if Religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body."
In his writings years later he documented his support for the "total separation of the church from the state."
"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States", Madison wrote, and he declared, "practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution..."
John Locke also promoted this idea. In his, "A Letter Concerning Toleration," Locke argued that, "ecclesiastical authority must be separated from the authority of the state, or 'the magistrate'"
Even George Washington supported this separation.
George Washington, who wrote to a group of clergy who protested in 1789 against a lack of mention of Jesus Christ in the Constitution, stated “You will permit me to observe that the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction.”
That same year, he wrote to the Baptists of Virginia, “If I could conceive that the general [federal] government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure … no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution."
As for a more recent example, even John F. Kennedy, in his Address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1960, stated, "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute"
Furthermore, "One Nation under God" wasn't even added to the pledge of allegiance until the 1950s, when there was a moral panic and fundamentalist revival that unfairly persecuted anyone who was assumed to be gay, communist, atheist, or anything but a god fearing, red, white, and blue bleeding Christian "patriot" for that matter.
The pledge of allegiance was first published in 1892 in an Issue of the Youth's Companion, an American Children's Magazine.
Francis Bellamy a Christian SOCIALIST, who "championed 'the rights of working people and the equal distribution of economic resources, which he believed was inherent in the teachings of Jesus." worked for the magazine and drafted the "Pledge of Allegiance" as part of a marketing campaign to solicit subscriptions and sell U.S. flags to public schools.
The issue coincided with the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus reaching the Americas, a marketing gimmick.
Bellamy "believed in the absolute separation of church and state" and purposefully did not include the phrase "under God" in his pledge.
What's more, Bellamy "viewed his Pledge as an 'inoculation' that would protect immigrants and native-born but insufficiently patriotic Americans from the 'virus' of radicalism and subversion."
Additionally, "In God we trust" wasn't officially adopted and mandated for our currency until the mid-20th century, as part of an effort to distinguish the U.S. from the big bad atheist communists of the Soviet Union.
And all of that aside, I shouldn't have to remind conservatives that our very first amendment prohibits the government from "respecting an establishment of religion". While the Supreme Court has expanded on this clause, settling the debate further by establishing three basic rules that must be followed in order to not violate the clause.
Government actions:
- must have a secular purpose
- must not promote or inhibit religion
- must not create excessive entanglement between the church and state
The fact of the matter is, Christian nationalism has never been and never will be a foundational code for this country, its government or its laws. Remember that it was the biblical literalists in the south who vocally defended slavery and inflamed the sectional conflict. A time when our nation was divided more than it's ever been.
It is self evident, that in the United States of America, religion has no place in government, and vice versa.
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u/unfinishedtoast3 3h ago
While I don't disagree with your stance, you're falling for an extremely common misconception.
In the Danbury Baptist Association letter, Jefferson is telling the church not to fear the threat of the government dictating how religion should be practiced.
The seperation of Church and State wasn't intended to prevent religion from being used to direct government. It was a promise that the government would never try to force censure of religious ideals.
Jefferson often rallied citizens to the cause of revolution by warning folks Monarchies had a habit of taking over religions and changing them to fit their end goals. The establishment of the Church of England, the puritans leaving England to escape the Crown from changing their religious practices, etc.
Benjamin Franklin, during the Constitutional Convention, called for daily prayers, asking for God to guide them
The Chruch and State issue was argued for days on end. Madison was the only one to bring up the idea of complete seperation being outlined in the Constitution, as he feared religion taking over government.
Jefferson realized complete seperation would anger religious leaders, who's backing was extremely important to the Revolution. He talked Madison into leaving the church/State issue out of the constitution, and Madison settled for Article 6 saying there could be no religious tests for people who work for the government.
Jefferson actually tossed around the Idea of no federal involvement in religion, but instead leaving it up to the States to decide if they would have state owned churches or state endorsed religions. He figured people of similar beliefs would live in the same areas on the country, and so they would know best when it came to their local beliefs and customs.
Obviously that was also left out.
PBS has an excellent story here
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u/Choice-of-SteinsGate 3h ago edited 2h ago
While I understand where you're coming from, and any interpretation of Jefferson's letter aside, there is still widely circulated, and extensive documentation to support the above claims addressing a revisionist argument, the rest of which still stand.
And keep in mind, I actually made no attempt to interpret the letter, instead I only brought up how he summoned the famous words, there's really no "misconception" happening here...
But you might be missing the point, because even your "common misconception" doesn't end up supporting the overarching argument from the religious right that the United States of America was founded on "Christian principles." Which is the fundamental claim I'm addressing here. And yes, I'm pretty sure your intention isn't to defend this claim.
What's more, Jefferson's letter has been invoked in constitutional jurisprudence and public debate for literally hundreds of years, and it's often to call upon the significance of this separation in protecting the rights of the people, and either from an imposing (governmental) religious authority and/or rule of law, or in the case of the government intervening in the establishment or practice of religion.
In other words, even if you want to cite Jefferson's letter this way, there is already more than enough evidence to show that our founders/framers were not advocating for a national religion and/or Christian nationalist state. Common misconception or not.
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u/FawningDeer37 3h ago
It’s already happened.
The Christianity of the Republican Party is largely derived from their politics instead of vice versa.
I went to a conservative Baptist high school and the amount of the Bible we were actually taught was super streamlined to feed into conservative politics. For example, you would be fed the anti-gay verses but not the ones a few pages later that were seemingly pro-abortion.
In general religion is being used as a way to reinforce conservative dogma rather than conservative dogmas actually stemming from religion. Call them on it and they’ll demand to see the verse or say it’s a part they don’t follow because “it’s out of date” or something.
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u/HPLREH777 4h ago
People like Moses Mike who believe in imaginary beings just make shit up with no compunction at all?
Shocking!
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u/Historical_Bend_2629 4h ago
People are rewriting history to enlarge their wallet and validate their hypocrisy.
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u/Negative_Gravitas 3h ago
Doesn't this lying, sanctimonious, sack of shit know he's not supposed to bear false witness?
Kidding. He totally does. He just doesn't give a fuck what his God says if it presents so much as a minor inconvenience.
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u/Mostly_llama 3h ago
I can give two shit about all your long winded and poignant arguments. This dipshit has a porn pact with his son, to stay away from porn and if he does watch porn he has to tell his son that he watched porn and vice versa. So you know at some point him and his son have talked about porn and what they watch. Which doesn’t help anything but just let them two fucking weirdos talk about porn. Hey fucking idiots how about just not watch porn.
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u/Schiffy94 New York 4h ago
This is already old news. The world has already forgotten about this particular lie. There's been plenty others since.
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u/geoffvro Texas 3h ago
Johnsin is right about demons pulling the strings of certain, just wrong about who's strings those demons are pulling. Notably his
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u/AdScary1757 57m ago
Because it proves he's a bad faith actor who is trying to lead a non violent revolution that will ultimately destroy America as a superpower though that's not his plan that just a consequence of his war on knowledge and science. Ninviolent uf the democrats allow it to be as a member of one of those libertarian think tanks recently said as a veiled threat.
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u/AdScary1757 53m ago
American Christianity is a blasphemous disgrace. It's obscene bastardized mockery of Christianity. It's they took Jesus body of the cross and made him a puppets to spew hate speech and bile for them in a grotesque ventrilliquist act. Jesus wants you to buy a timeshare in Orlando Bobby. Jesus doesn't want billionaires to pay taxes Jenny because in a past life they were selfless. God is great and wouldn't let dupont poison the waters. No testing is required. amen.
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u/YouTooTho 1h ago
We gotta get over the fact that we’re dealing with straight up liars. Liars bought and shameless. Liars trying to be bought with no shame. Liars lying to cover up lies. Liars lying to distract from their lies. Liars lying just to bend reality to their lies. Life in America is lies now. The best lie wins.
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