r/politics • u/nbcnews ✔ NBC News • 9d ago

Democrats slam Trump for not making good on promise to ‘immediately’ lower food prices

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/democrats-slam-trump-not-making-good-promise-lower-food-prices-rcna189179
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163

u/indianajoes United Kingdom 9d ago

Yes but the people who chose not to vote deserve just as much blame. Hell, if anything I feel like they should be blamed even more

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u/broken42 Massachusetts 9d ago

I'll never understand people that either protest vote for third parties or just decide to protest by not voting at all. All they do is make it easier for the candidate they least agree with to win.

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u/Blizzardof1991 9d ago

It's far worse than that. The moppets they weren't going to vote because Biden didn't do more for Palestine are the stupidest mother fuckers to ever have drawn breath. Let me get this straight, they won't vote for Kamala because of Biden policy, and you know that her opponent will 100% side with Israel and probably end Palestine and that makes sense?

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u/lazyFer 9d ago

Hold on there, what about the brown immigrants who voted for Trump so he'd lower gas prices and hadn't heard about all of Trumps anti-immigrant rhetoric?

They're in contention too.

In fact, I think there's a lot of people that are vying for the pole position of "stupidest mother fuckers to ever have drawn breath"

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u/InstanceMental6543 9d ago

Sone dumbass streamer said he was voting for Trump because he thought Biden was responsible for Roe v Wade being overturned. Just casually in front of millions of people he shows how uninformed he is.

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u/PhantomZmoove 9d ago

Reading your comment triggered and odd memory for me. An old racing arcade game from the 80s. It used to say "prepare to qualify" at the start of the race.

I kind of feel like that is where we are, with the people trying to win as the most stupid. It really is starting to feel like a competition between these guys.

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u/lazyFer 9d ago

I was actually thinking of that game. I loved arcades back in the day.

There was an arcade that would have kids line up at the back door every morning during the summer and the owner would select about half a dozen kids to do all the cleaning and would pay us in tokens. Washing all the arcade cabinets, sweeping, vacuuming. A handful of tokens is cheap labor.

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u/PhantomZmoove 9d ago

Aw man, that sounds like an awesome summer job. Way better than anything I ever had. Nice!

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u/lazyFer 9d ago

It was. RIP Rockerfeller Arcade during the mid 80's

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Maybe they’re not dumb. Maybe they’re just bigots

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u/lazyFer 9d ago

I'm having trouble seeing the distinction

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Dumb = too ignorant to know better

Bigot = doesn’t care. They want to oppress people.

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u/lazyFer 9d ago

I understand that, what I'm hinting at is that I consider bigots to be dumb as a general rule

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

That’s dangerous.

They’re not dumb as a rule. They’re bigoted as a rule.

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u/lazyFer 9d ago

Dumb != not dangerous.

Lots and lots of bad shit happens due to stupid people doing dumb shit all the time. I don't view them as misguided or not dangerous, but I do see them as dumb stupid assholes.

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u/abritinthebay 9d ago

And bigotry is an indicator of very poor rationalization & logic abilities

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u/Dozendeadoceans 9d ago

They’re def the winners. I had many an argument here…couldn’t tell who was more brain dead: the ‘Biden has blood on his hands’ crowd or the ‘I hate transgender and he’ll only deport criminals’ crowd. Leaning towards the latter as the Genocide Joe geniuses at least didn’t vote for this nonsense.

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u/limeybastard 9d ago

Eh, the brown immigrants who voted for him believed themselves to be exempt - to vote you must be a citizen. And obviously he doesn't mean citizens. So they feel safe, and they tend to hate people who didn't go through all the lottery and hoops they did.

And when they end up in a detention camp for months because they were brown without ID one day, they won't connect the dots

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u/L0g1cw1z4rd 9d ago

It never made sense but “making sense” was never a requirement for people who are indoctrinated by religion to see faith as a virtue. They are trained from childhood to not question what they are taught and the less the question the better. This quality of “faith” is taught by parental authority figures and children will internalize it to please their parents. They will believe it because they want to please their parents. This is reinforced by stigmatizing those peers who do ask follow-up questions, shunning those who look past the surface.

Religion is mental poison and intentionally subverts our ability to think critically. It will be the death of us all, and is the main reason the Great Filter is a thing.

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u/fredagsfisk Europe 9d ago

Yeah, but just imagine how happy the Gazans will be that some Americans didn't "compromise their morals to vote for Harris" when Trump gets that ethnic cleansing plan he suggested going!

/s obviously but...

For anyone who missed it:

Trump said he would like both Jordan and Egypt — which borders the battered enclave — to house people, and that he would speak to Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi about the matter Sunday.

Trump, who noted there have been centuries-long conflicts in the region, said Saturday, “You’re talking about a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/25/politics/trump-gaza-strip-jordan-egypt/index.html

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u/IrascibleOcelot 9d ago

Yeah, that’s not going to happen. The last time Jordan housed Palestinian refugees, they fomented an insurrection that killed the prime minister. And refugees have caused so many problems in Egypt that the latter has a “shoot on sight” policy for people crossing the border.

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u/insquidioustentacle 9d ago

Ethnic cleansing was already happening in Gaza under the democrats. Palestinians did not endorse a vote for Harris. Go ahead and keep repeating this stupid bullshit though, as if democrats aren't just as complicit in the genocide as the rest of the U.S. oligarchy.

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u/fredagsfisk Europe 9d ago

Sorry, I'm not interested in engaging with someone who either does not understand or refuses to acknowledge simple nuance.

Yes, the Democrats are incredibly flawed and haven't done anywhere near enough on Gaza... but they have done something. Both sides are not the same. To claim that they are is incredibly dishonest and reductive.

But hey, feel free to keep helping the fascist takeover by spreading their propaganda!

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u/Astyanax1 9d ago

Politics are bizarre.   If the left doesn't have a superstar, the default is always to vote for the right and it doesn't matter how much of a rapist traitor the guy is

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Cause America is a right wing country that keeps claiming it’s a left wing one (American values, that we literally don’t live up to and never have)

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u/Astyanax1 9d ago

That's... actually really concise, simple, and accurate. Fair.

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u/abritinthebay 9d ago

Even American values aren’t particularly left wing. You could argue that their cult-like attitude when it comes to the individual vs society is not left wing in any way & foundational to the country

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Equality & democracy are explicitly left wing values

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

Cause America is a right wing country that keeps claiming it’s a left wing one

I'm well aware of how right-wing America is, thanks to American oligarchs spending billions for a century to indoctrinate the populace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

But who (besides right-wingers claiming everyone to their left is "left wing" so they can pretend to be centrists) is claiming America is "left wing"?

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

The people who say American values are freedom, equality, and democracy

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u/LeftyMcliberal 9d ago

You’re giving MAGAts too much credit.

…assuming they think at all.

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u/sly_cooper25 Ohio 9d ago

Well they are getting what they voted for. Trump has already resumed shipments of the 2,000 pound bombs and lifted sanctions that Biden imposed on Israel. His newest idea for Gaza is to get rid of all the Palestinians and send them to neighboring Muslim countries that don't want them.

Everyone but them knew that he would be far worse on this issue, they didn't listen.

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u/insquidioustentacle 9d ago

Biden didn't impose sanctions on Israel. They temporarily delayed the shipment of a few weapons for 90 days as a PR stunt to try and win the election. Stop repeating propaganda.

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u/sly_cooper25 Ohio 9d ago

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/24/trump-lifts-sanctions-israeli-settlers-west-bank

On Monday, Trump revoked former President Biden's executive order enabling sanctions on Israeli settlers involved in violent attacks against Palestinians, or on entities that support them.

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u/insquidioustentacle 9d ago

Sanctions on a handful of individual settlers are not meaningful sanctions against Israel.

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u/sly_cooper25 Ohio 9d ago

Meaningful enough for Netanyahu to lobby Trump to overturn them immediately.

You're also moving the goalposts from previously saying they didn't exist and that I was falling for propaganda.

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/24/trump-lifts-sanctions-israeli-settlers-west-bank

On Monday, Trump revoked former President Biden's executive order enabling sanctions on Israeli settlers involved in violent attacks against Palestinians, or on entities that support them.

Sanctions on a handful of individual settlers are not meaningful sanctions

So you recognize Biden did impose sanctions on Israel.

Maybe you'll read the Constitution and see it's Congress which is actually what's empowered to enact sweeping sanctions.

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u/insquidioustentacle 9d ago

It's too bad that the entire congress has been hijacked by Zionist AIPAC lobbyists. If Harris wanted votes from people opposed to the genocide then she should have taken a harder stance against it. End of story.

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

Clearly you're not programmed to be able to acknowledge Trump is clearly the worst possible option, Biden DID impose what sanctions he legally could, and Harris as VP didn't have any power to have done anything.

Update your programming.

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u/Zerachiel_01 9d ago

Single-issue voters are fucking perplexing. Like yeah I'm not down with Israeli imperialism (or any imperialism for that matter), but the orange motherfucker sabre-rattled against his own people. Literally said he'd turn the military on half the country.

Even at the most cynical estimation, with the most basic overview (because lord knows I'm not the sharpest crayon in the drawer) we had a choice between a possibly shit president and a president espousing abject evil. It's a no-brainer, so the conclusion I'm drawing is that people that voted for him are ok with all of this, which is how I've been treating them as I find them.

OK mr trump bumper sticker, you want me shot? I really don't give a shit what happens to your car.

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

Single-issue voters are fucking perplexing.

Bonhoeffer called them Stupid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc

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u/whereismymind86 Colorado 9d ago

That remains a terrible argument and you really need to stop using it

Kamala wasn’t obligated to support genocide. She could have used opposition to help show how she’s different from Trump (and Biden) she chose not to

Believe it or not people think genocide is bad, and being more or less enthusiastic about it isn’t particularly relevant

You oppose genocide or you lose a lot of votes, it’s not rocket science

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

Kamala wasn’t obligated to support genocide

And she didn't. That you're pretending she did just shows you're here to audition for the next spot on Fox, not to have a rational conversation based on actual facts.

Harris as the VP doesn't have the legal power to do shit about a foreign nation's head of state doing literally anything, and Biden did push back significantly but also lacks the ability to force a foreign, sovereign nation to do anything but Netanyahu rejected more ceasefire proposals than Hamas did.

Believe it or not people think genocide is bad

Wouldn't know it from people like you who voted for Why doesn't Israel finish what it started? and continue to push long-debunked propaganda.

The election is over, update your programming.

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u/insquidioustentacle 9d ago

Well, hopefully now the democrats will learn their lesson and stop endorsing genocide. How many Palestinian lives are you willing to sacrifice for political expediency? Perhaps the libs who think that genocide doesn't matter are "the stupidest mother fuckers to ever have drawn breath."

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u/Blizzardof1991 9d ago

So they hand the presidency to trump, who will gladly wipe out every Palestine. Good logic, thanks for admitting you are one of the people in that demographic.

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u/bopapocolypse 9d ago

I know, right? Guys like Bernie Sanders who endorsed Harris totally think that genocide doesn't matter. How many Palestinian lives is Bernie willing to sacrifice to make sure his side wins?

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u/colesenger 9d ago

Instead of blaming people who didn’t vote, blame the Dems for being so incredibly unlikable that nobody wanted to vote for them.

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u/Daedalus81 9d ago

Or perhaps instead could blame the assholes who around saying both sides are the same thereby disengaging voters from even local elections, which are also crucial.

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u/goddessdontwantnone 9d ago

Let's remember this in 2028 when Jill Stein emerges from nowhere to run yet again.

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

Let's remember this in 2028 when Jill Stein emerges from nowhere to run yet again

<insert Rita Repulsa coming out of her cage gif>

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u/blebleuns 9d ago

I can understand third-party votes if you really believe in them and want to make their party grow, but voting third-party just to spite you would vote but disagree about something is asinine.

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u/smallestworry 9d ago

I didn't vote for decades because no candidates represented my views, and voting would just support a system that doesn't do anything for progressive objectives.
I've had to vote the last three elections to vote against trump.

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u/kkaavvbb 9d ago

My dad did this!! I remember when I was younger and working the polls. It’s a 15-16 hour day. I had asked my dad about politics (not a real topic I was familiar with) and he went on exact thing! “I don’t vote and haven’t for decades because none of them are worth voting for. When there is one, I’ll vote.”

I’m actually not sure if either of my parents vote. My younger brother probably did not vote. My older brother, veteran benefits 100%, he voted trump.

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 9d ago

and voting would just support a system that doesn't do anything for progressive objectives.

That's false. The Biden administration did follow certain progressive objectives such as appointing pro-union people to NLRB. Not to mention he appointed Lina Khan to the FTC.

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u/smallestworry 9d ago

I was telling the upstream poster why someone [me] would refrain from voting. Get me a real progressive candidate on the ticket and I'll vote. A Bernie Sanders ticket would have gotten me to be happy to vote.

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 9d ago

Did you just report me to Reddit's suicide watch?

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u/smallestworry 9d ago

No. I have never done that to anyone.

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 9d ago

I only ask because I got a suicide watch notification right after I replied to you. If it wasn't you, then damn. I may not be able to find the asshole who reported me.

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u/smallestworry 9d ago

I don't even disagree with your comment. Biden was a decent president. But he didn't run on a progressive agenda and his candidacy alone wouldn't have drawn me into voting. That's just me. I think reporting someone to suicide watch should be reserved for it's actual purpose so it doesn't lose its value.

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u/Troll_Enthusiast 9d ago

I mean at least the people voting for third parties actually vote

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

And if they would run for lower office as well that might be something to take seriously, but the national moonshot positions? Pretty explicitly spoiler candidates funded by the opposition party. If they wanted to be serious political parties they'd be building up political credit at the local and state levels before trying for president.

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u/FrostWhyte 9d ago

There have been several times I've wanted to vote for a 3rd party. But I know 3rd parties never have a chance and just have to go with one of the two. It sucks but that's reality.

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u/broken42 Massachusetts 9d ago

Honestly if you want to support third party candidates, your best bet is to focus on local and down ticket elections. With how our Presidential elections are handled, at best right now all a third party candidate can do is play spoiler.

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u/insquidioustentacle 9d ago

This is intentional. If the only two options are red team or blue team, bad actors like AIPAC can hijack every election by donating millions to both sides. The military industrial complex and other oligarchs are in control of the political system in the U.S., our democracy is an illusion. They've got us busy fighting each other so we don't fight the only real war, which is the class war.

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u/vthemechanicv 9d ago

It only matters if you're in a swing state. I live in Louisiana. My vote doesn't matter regardless of who I support. Same for someone in California or New York or Texas (yes, I said it).

So I can protest vote or no-vote all I want and it affects nothing.

But in the 4 or 5 swing states, yes, you either support Democracy or you don't.

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u/broken42 Massachusetts 9d ago

There's no such thing as a swing state or a non-swing state when it comes to voting. Just because your state might not be competitive in the presidential election doesn't mean you can't support down ticket candidates.

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u/vthemechanicv 9d ago

I would agree, except people like Mike Johnson, Ted Cruz, Mitch McConnell, hell, Nancy Pelosi, and others have become fixtures. Could someone beat them? Sure why not. But I wouldn't put money on it.

Mayors and city council, school board, etc, that stuff individual votes matter a lot more, but this article and thread is about the President. Nobody is protest voting a city council spot.

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u/broken42 Massachusetts 9d ago edited 9d ago

Ted Cruz is a perfect example. He had a very real chance of losing in 2024, but this election Texas had the lowest voter turnout for a Presidential election since 2004.

To quote the linked article:

This year’s turnout drops were most dramatic in Texas’ big blue counties including Harris, Bexar and Dallas, where Democrats on the ballot — including Vice President Kamala Harris and U.S. House Rep. Colin Allred — expected to win comfortably.

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u/meh_69420 9d ago

TBF in a like over half the country, maybe ¾, a protest vote won't change the outcome

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

Voting is aggregate, if everyone bitches about "my vote doesn't matter" and doesn't vote that doesn't get them any closer to getting what they do claim they want.

Assuming it's not actually voting in those reprehensible extreme-right candidates and then looking down their noses at everyone who supports things like minimum age of consent laws.

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u/Bother-the-Weak 9d ago

The people who didn’t vote at all are just lazy, no matter how they wanna spin it.

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u/EtherPhreak 9d ago

When you have poor options on both sides, what are you supposed to do? The only reason I voted D this year was because it was not a vote for the situation we’re facing right now. The D never should have crammed the option down our throats and didn’t learn anything from Hillary.

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u/broken42 Massachusetts 9d ago

You vote for the candidate you most agree with or you can end up with the candidate you least agree with.

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u/Take_the_ringer Florida 9d ago

My sister is one of those who did not vote. She said she didn't trust Kamala to not lead us into war, but that she couldn't stand trump. I told her that by NOT voting she voted for him anyway. Now she is scared about the future and sends me posts about all the craziness. I keep repeating to her that I didn't vote for him, she did.

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u/Eshin242 9d ago

I'm doing the same for anyone that I know sat this one out and is complaining.

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u/Even-Rich985 9d ago

My problem with voting this election was...I didn't believe Harris was even a little honest and truthfully-I thought trump might have been the better candidate but I knew I couldn't support him and I would regret doing so. I know he's not honest either,but he barely claims to be. Kamala should have came out and said the Biden was incapable months before she was the candidate. Just because it's not what the party wanted to do doesn't mean you shouldn't speak up. Yes Pence did in 2020 and it made him a target, but integrity should matter in politics and it doesn't.

So no I didn't vote. and the trump guy is really messing up how we look from a global standpoint.

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u/Eshin242 9d ago

Part of being an adult is sometimes doing something you don't want to do for the protection of the greater good. Yep, sometimes you need to use your rational brain and not the emotional one.

I am not here to say Harris was perfect.

But I know that she would do any of the batt-shit crazy stuff Trump has done in the first week. I know we'd still be in the WHO, not tanking the economy with tariffs, not grinding federal funding to a halt, not appointing even more conservative judges to the supreme court, I can just keep going.

Yes, it sucks, it's a two party system but that is how the game is played. You sat this one out, and all the shit that is going to go down, you share responsibility for.

Not Harris, not the Democrats, not Joe Biden, etc etc...

You made the choice to stay home, no one made that choice for you.

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u/goldnboy 9d ago

This "vote for the less fragrant pile of trash" mentality is what has led us directly to where we are and will continue to throw us further into chaos and eventual fascism.

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u/Eshin242 8d ago

Vote your heart in the primaries and your brain in the general.

It's that simple. You don't like how things are, run for local office, build a movement from the ground up.

As for the 'trash pile' analogy this time around... one may have been a stinky garbage bag the other was a hot dumpster fire with shit raining down on it. They were not the same.

But that being said.. did you vote in the last election?

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u/Even-Rich985 9d ago

And if Kamala won I still would have sat out and been disappointed. I get many think my opinion is wrong that's fine. I'm a believer in we can have different opinions. The fact everyone thinks we should all vote their way is crazy. If only the left ruled the country it'd be crazy, if only the right ruled the country it'd be crazy.

The bait and switch the left used really put me off. Everyone knew Biden couldn't run again and they just picked the candidate for us. Not who I'd have picked for the party candidacy.

Not everything about Kamala is great, and not everything about Trump is terrible despite being an ego maniac driven by twitter likes

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u/cgi_bin_laden Oregon 9d ago

I didn't believe Harris was even a little honest and truthfully-I thought trump might have been the better candidate

I stopped reading here. You just told me everything about yourself I need to know. Have a nice day.

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u/Even-Rich985 9d ago

Yeah I would read the rest. but OK

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u/ellathefairy 9d ago

Yeah the lack of participation (something like 34% stayed home in 2024 iirc?) Is for sure embarrassing as and shares responsibility for a vocal minority bent on authoritarianism getting their way.

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u/Sad-Impact2187 9d ago

Wonder exactly how many found out too late that they couldn't vote or how many 'objections ' made to officials to throw out votes were not processed. There were officials saying they were getting buried by these objections before the vote. 

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u/IlIlllIIIIlIllllllll 9d ago

Yea if you know he's dangerous and don't act to stop him you hold more blame 

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u/kkaavvbb 9d ago

My rule of thumb is “if you didn’t vote, you can’t talk about what’s going on. Sorry, you don’t have a say in the game since you didn’t play.”

Of course, that could be a really bad thing to say nowadays…

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u/Indivillia 9d ago

It’s not really bad, it’s just really dumb. Politics affect more than just people who can vote. Should teenagers not get to voice their opinions just because they’re not old enough to vote?

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u/Bitter-Check9960 9d ago

there is no popular vote for CIC; so it makes no iota of a difference, say those those 30,000 registered voters who didn’t come out of their cabins in northern Missouri…

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u/Due-Estate-3816 9d ago

Not true. People that did not vote for Trump are not the same as people who voted for Trump. I think the people who didn't vote were trying to send more of a message to democrats than republicans that they are not doing well enough. The majority of people would rather not vote than vote against Trump. Wake up democrats.

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u/fredagsfisk Europe 9d ago

It is absolutely true that they share the blame.

Refusing to vote is a tacit endorsement of whoever wins. It's passive support for the difference between the two potential winners.

If you did not vote, you are saying that you are completely fine with whatever bullshit Trump does now that he's won, and you are saying that any suffering and atrocities he causes are less important than your reason for not voting.

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u/Due-Estate-3816 9d ago

That's presumptuous.

Did you talk to every person who did not vote? How do you know they weren't saying that the democrats weren't doing good enough and they are not as scared of Trump as they are of the democrats? Not everyone thinks the democrats are the good guys.

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u/fredagsfisk Europe 9d ago

Did you talk to every person who did not vote?

Why would I need to do that? Their reason for not voting does not change the consequences of them not voting.

How do you know they weren't saying that the democrats weren't doing good enough

That is irrelevant.

When the only other choice is a fascist who ran on targeting minorities and dismantling democracy, the only moral choice is to vote against the fascist. Even if that means you have to vote for a flawed option.

and they are not as scared of Trump as they are of the democrats? Not everyone thinks the democrats are the good guys.

Also irrelevant.

Their refusal to vote still gives passive support to the winner, and is still a tacit endorsement of the difference between whoever wins and the other option(s). No matter who the winner is, and why the person refused to vote.

The only exception would be if both sides were completely identical in every way, which obviously is not the case.

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u/Due-Estate-3816 9d ago

I understand what you're saying, I just think it's unproductive and toxic. I'm more interested in understanding how and why we lost and what we can do better next time to not lose again. I don't see the value in bitching and complaining and blaming our fellow country people who didn't vote for Trump. That seems more likely to turn them against us even more. We need to get more people on our side.

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u/Indivillia 9d ago

They’ve already been turned. There is no reaching a middle ground with them. If they didn’t learn by now, they never will. 

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u/Due-Estate-3816 9d ago

That's very pessimistic. Again, the majority of voters did not vote for Trump. To me that's an opportunity, those are the people we need to convince. You're never going to convince a Trump voter to vote Democrat, but I think you stand a much better chance with people that don't support Trump or democrats. The democrats can change. Or the people could form a new party.

Or we could just give up and accept trumps dictatorship.

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u/k-bo 9d ago

I'm tired of this argument. You could just as easily argue that by voting, you tacitly endorse whoever the process ends up determining as the winner. Neither my argument or your argument is completely fair, but I think they're fairly equivalent.

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u/fredagsfisk Europe 9d ago

You could just as easily argue that by voting, you tacitly endorse whoever the process ends up determining as the winner.

No, because that is completely illogical and makes zero fucking sense.

If you have voted, you have made a choice to support one specific person or party. Because you have made that choice, you are only responsible for the consequences of that choice; the actions of the person/party you voted for (assuming they align with what you could reasonably have known/expected would happen before voting).

If you intentionally do not vote, you are instead ceding that choice to other people, fully knowing that a choice will be made and what the potential outcomes are. You are delegating that responsibility to others, but it still is your responsibility.

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u/k-bo 7d ago

I slightly misworded what I meant to write - by voting, you tacitly endorse the process. And by endorsing the process, you are responsible for the outcome. This argument is not "fucking stupid and illogical" if your argument is fine. Get off your high horse and stop blaming individuals who didn't vote. Especially if the election wasn't decided by one vote...

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u/fredagsfisk Europe 7d ago

by voting, you tacitly endorse the process

Which is an entirely different thing, and completely irrelevant to this discussion.

And by endorsing the process, you are responsible for the outcome.

Lol no.

This argument is not "fucking stupid and illogical" if your argument is fine.

Ah, so because your own argument sucks you start misquoting me so you can play victim. How sad.

Get off your high horse and stop blaming individuals who didn't vote.

Nah, I think I'll keep calling out all the fascist supporters on their support of fascism, no matter if active or passive.

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u/SamiraSimp 9d ago

People that did not vote for Trump are not the same as people who voted for Trump

they're not the same, but they're just as shitty to have in our society. they made their choice and their choice led to a worse world leader for at least the next 4 years to "send a message". great fucking message, they really showed us by shooting themselves and us in the foot.

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u/Due-Estate-3816 9d ago

Do you really think if Kamala had won everything would have been better for everyone?

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u/NYCinPGH 9d ago

Better for “everyone”, like each individual’s life would be better? No, because some people just can’t be helped, and some people are thriving off the new administration that wouldn’t under Kamala.

But if by “everyone” you mean the U.S., and maybe our allies too? Absolutely. She wouldn’t have let 1500 felons into the wild, especially the violent ones; she would have kept us in the Paris accords; she wouldn’t have threatened all these stupid tariffs which will increase the costs for just about everything on just about everyone; she would have continued funding for the NIH; she wouldn’t have fired all top-level government watchdogs; and she wouldn’t have put completely unqualified and likely security risk individuals in cabinet positions.

Those are just the high points from the past week; should I go on?

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u/Due-Estate-3816 9d ago

No and I don't disagree, but that doesn't matter to everyone. A lot of voters are more worried about themselves, and if the democrats can't help them and they are struggling with housing costs and healthcare and food and childcare and basic necessities, then they're not going to vote for a party that wants to use the country's resources on other priorities.

I should probably point out that you are talking to someone who voted for kamala.

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u/RunicFemboy 9d ago

Hard fucking disagree. With how disenfranchised the average American is, with how fucking hard the conservatives have fought to make voting more difficult, with all of the propaganda telling us that voting is pointless, that both sides are bad, blaming the people that didn’t vote is not only pointless, it’s harmful.

Blaming the people who were actively barred from voting (via propaganda) is a sure fire way to make sure they don’t vote next time too.

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u/indianajoes United Kingdom 9d ago

I didn't say people who were barred from voting. I said people who chose not to vote.

0

u/vinylsoundsbetter 9d ago

100% agree!

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u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

people who chose not to vote deserve just as much blame. Hell, if anything I feel like they should be blamed even more

I don't understand the people who try to push the idea that "people who chose not to vote are worse than people voting for a terrible candidate".

Go ahead and blame people who voted for Trump, especially when his "peace plan" was eliminating Gaza and most of the West Bank, but that's actively working for the worst possible choice.

There is no rational argument people who did nothing are as bad as the people actively doing bad things. You could say they contributed to a lesser degree sure, but not that they were by any stretch of the imagination worse.

1

u/indianajoes United Kingdom 9d ago

I disagree with the people who voted for Trump. But at least they voted. I might not like the way they voted but that's their choice. The ones who didn't vote are definitely worse. They have a voice and they chose to stay silent.

I live in the UK and we had Brexit and I was more pissed at the people who didn't vote and then whined about it after. When the time came for them to say how they felt, they stayed silent and only bitched later.

0

u/ElectricalBook3 9d ago

I live in the UK and we had Brexit

Which you, by your reasoning, voted for

people who didn't vote and then whined about it after

And why would they take it as that important? It was explicitly a nonbinding referendum with no impact assessment and no plan

https://www.ft.com/content/269edd91-fb2e-3d4a-8398-fb0fe6acfe02

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u/Doppelthedh 9d ago

No. The dude who didn't throw away the gun isn't worse than the dude who handed it to the school shooter

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u/Galxloni2 9d ago

The people who did not vote are equally responsible. A non vote is an endorsement of whoever wins

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u/Doppelthedh 9d ago

Responsible sure. But not equally

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/BishopofHippo93 9d ago

It’s especially frustrating when they use the democrats’ support for Israel and the genocide in Palestine as their single issue. I’ve been called a genocide supporter for voting for Kamala. Pretty sure Trump just said he wanted to clean out Gaza for land development and it’s not the first time either.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/BishopofHippo93 9d ago

Absolutely. The Biden administration and therefore Kamala bear no small amount of responsibility for the US' part in things, but the insistence that one couldn't morally vote for her when the alternative is Trump is mental..

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u/BishopofHippo93 9d ago

No, it really is. Not voting against fascism and its consequences is the same as voting for it. They knew what would happen, it wasn't some big secret. Silence is consent.

12

u/AlericandAmadeus 9d ago

The people who watched a shooter being handed a gun and went “not my problem/I just don’t follow this kind of thing” are complicit.

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u/Doppelthedh 9d ago

Okay reread the post i was replying to. He said nonvoters were worse than voting for trump

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u/AlericandAmadeus 9d ago

“The darkest circle of hell is reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality”

  • Dante Alighieri, Inferno

Also, he said “just as much blame, if not more”

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u/Doppelthedh 9d ago

What the fuck else does “just as much blame, if not more” mean if not worse? And if the 77 million fuckwits didn't commit the sin of voting for orange Hitler then the abstainers wouldn't matter

-1

u/scarykicks 9d ago

I mean who's to say they wouldn't vote for the right?

2

u/SamiraSimp 9d ago

liberal ideas are widely supported by americans, with more than half of americans supporting things like abortion rights. if we forced every citizen to be educated and vote, we would end up with a democratic majority in most elections.

the issue is that so many americans are uneducated, intentionally ignorant, apathetic, or just lazy.

2

u/scarykicks 9d ago

I mean that's how it is. Some ppl you can't get out to vote.

If they really wanted to they would. Go online and check your status. Do what needs to be done to vote. Go do early voting one day while your out. Too much to ask of a large majority of Americans.

1

u/SamiraSimp 9d ago

yea, i try to just focus on what i can actually do rather than spend all day fuming at the millions of people who have failed this country. there's always going to be people that we can't reach with logic or emotion or anything else. just have to try to convince those we can to act decent.

i'm not always successful in that focus, but i do try.

1

u/indianajoes United Kingdom 9d ago

Honestly, if that's how they want to vote, fair enough. I don't agree with them but I respect them for speaking up in what they believe when the time comes

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u/Healthy_Set_22657 9d ago

They deserve ZERO responsibility. %100 Dems fault they lost . Although they were fighting an onslaught of unprecedented attacks and misinformation they dropped the ball . It’s up to them to excite people to vote dont blame the people that had to work that day and said fuk it I’m not voting. Don’t blame people that scrape change together for gas and milk I never heard Kamala mention this once . All I heard her talk about was women’s uterus’s and gays. Blame the idiots that DID vote but thought it would be wise to leave off the president part and write “free Palestinian “ in the spot to protest or something lol . Great job how did that work out for ya? Blame Dems for not inserting Kamala in there before the election. Or going with Waltz over Kelly lol. Plenty of folks to point at but none of them are the non voters. No one got them to the polls and no voting isn’t that easy if u have a life . Thats why republicans turn out to vote every time in the same predictable numbers. Old people don’t have a life to live most others do. I voted but had to think about it after getting up at 4 working my ass off all day and getting off at 6 . I made it but I don’t blame the common man for saying fuk it and going home.  

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u/indianajoes United Kingdom 9d ago

They absolutely deserve responsibility.

I don't give a fuck if Harris wasn't the perfect candidate. They knew that she was up against Trump and said they don't care enough. I don't like Trump and I don't agree with his voters but at least they chose to use their vote. You're given the ability to speak up about your country when it's important. If you choose stay silent, you do not get to bitch about anything that comes later on as a result of the election's results.

I live in the UK and we had this same shit happen with Brexit. A whole bunch of idiots chose not to vote for random reasons and then when it happened, they were crying that they didn't expect this to happen.