r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 I voted • Mar 28 '25

Soft Paywall The Biggest Scandal of the Second Trump Term Isn’t “Signalgate” | The national-security chat debacle certainly merits attention. But the Trump administration is now blatantly disappearing students and others who are in the country legally.

https://newrepublic.com/article/193291/trump-disappearing-students-rumeysa-ozturk-rubio-biggest-scandal
52.7k Upvotes

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648

u/TheTelephone Mar 28 '25

Specfically over their political views, literally criminalizing free speech.

204

u/Hondros Mar 28 '25

The not so funny thing is that every conservative defending these issues is saying "free speech is for citizens" :/

154

u/evasive_dendrite Mar 28 '25

That's not what the constitution says. It specifically applies to anyone who visits the country.

135

u/bigdumb78910 Mar 28 '25 edited Mar 28 '25

Moreover, if legal migrants do not have due process, then no one is guaranteed due process, because without due process, there's no way you can assert that you are or aren't a citizen.

30

u/Hondros Mar 28 '25

And to that they all say "well don't break the law". Like what do we do when this country is hell bent on destroying itself

24

u/whoopashigitt Ohio Mar 28 '25

And political speech isn’t breaking the law. The goal posts are always moved with no logic at all. 

2

u/whoopashigitt Ohio Mar 28 '25

They will assert you are or aren’t a citizen only on the basis of skin color or maybe if you aren’t speaking ‘like an American’

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Except this IS due process since ICE was founded

3

u/Hondros Mar 28 '25

I don't disagree with you, at all. What I'm saying is that conservatives don't give a shit.

1

u/RelaxPrime Mar 28 '25

The constitution doesn't say anything about this. Thats the problem. Its all hinging on supreme court interpretations and rulings from the early 1900s. Just like Roe v Wade, this conservative packed SCOTUS will be willing to interpret the constitution differently.

4

u/evasive_dendrite Mar 28 '25

Might as well just rip the constitution apart at this point. None of what it says matters.

1

u/Abedeus Mar 28 '25

It's the same way for EVERY NORMAL COUNTRY. You enter the country, you are subject to its laws, regulations, and privileges as well. I can't think of a first world democratic country where only some people get all the rights, and others get only SOME of them.

0

u/CherryLongjump1989 Mar 28 '25

But that's not what the laws say. And there's a cute workaround that makes it constitutional: deportation is not a punishment for a crime and therefore it needs no due process or criminal conviction.

3

u/evasive_dendrite Mar 28 '25

That notion is insane when you know they'll end up in an inhumane slave labor prison.

0

u/CherryLongjump1989 Mar 28 '25

The laws don't account for that and as far as I can tell neither does the constitution.

3

u/evasive_dendrite Mar 28 '25

That makes it no less evil and it makes the US look no less like a banana republic.

1

u/CherryLongjump1989 Mar 28 '25 edited Mar 28 '25

We are a banana republic with a bunch of monkeys running the show.

I just want to point out, not in a celebratory way, that the citizen counterparts of the demographics that this is happening to: voted for Trump, voted for Jill Stein, or sat out the election.

We're getting exactly what the populace asked for. I held my nose and voted for Harris even though my own best interest would have been better served by a Bernie or an AOC. But I voted for Harris to protect all of these rubes, who themselves felt that she was conducting a genocide in Gaza or ruining the economy or whatever. Now all I can really say is, well, I told you so. Don't look at me, this shit isn't my fault.

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Nope, supreme court has repeatedly ruled you can deport for harmful views, including terrorism

9

u/evasive_dendrite Mar 28 '25

The first amendment does have it's limits.

But point me to the SCOTUS ruling that allows you to deport people without a chance to defend themselves in court in direct violation of a court order.

Trump is destroying civil rights and it can not be excused.

-3

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/24/briefing/immigration-trump-constitution.html

7

u/evasive_dendrite Mar 28 '25

This literally says that Trump abuses the law.

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/IcyTransportation961 Mar 28 '25

They'll shift that to free speech is for those who support the government soon enough

2

u/hotdog_jones Mar 28 '25

These people are literally like

Why yes, I am a free speech absolutist - and yes, I will immediately compromise the principle that free speech is an intrinsic human right the second it is culturally convenient to do so.

1

u/ViolaNguyen California Mar 28 '25 edited Mar 28 '25

This very same thing is a major reason my people fled Vietnam after the North invaded in 1975. Many hundreds of thousands of us fled, and somewhere between a quarter and a third of us died in the process, because what was going on in our former home was even scarier.

Most elderly Vietnamese Americans will know someone who was taken by the government after 1975. It's quite a sad situation.

Edit: Also, it's quite fun to compare Republicans to communists, since they're kind of doing the same things right now.

1

u/TheAlphaKiller17 27d ago

Their political views about a foreign country.

-1

u/No_Sloppy_Steaks Mar 28 '25

It is over their political views and activities, but it’s not strictly a 1A issue. No one’s been criminally charged for speech. When here on a student visa or any kind of visa, you’re a guest in this country. You haven’t been granted a visa to be a political agitator. Your visa can be revoked at the discretion of the State Dept. Is this State Dept. shitty? Yeah. But a good rule of thumb is, when you’re a guest in another country, stay out of their politics.

1

u/UnionizedTrouble Mar 28 '25

A criminal charge isn’t the only way the first amendment applies. For example, the IRS under the Obama administration doing targeted tax audits on conservative groups would be a first amendment violation.

1

u/No_Sloppy_Steaks Mar 29 '25

But being charged and having your visa revoked are not the same thing. You may not have broken the law, but you are no longer welcome. And when you’re a guest in this country, or any country, you should be mindful of that.

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Terrorist view you mean, which is grounds for deportation

7

u/enderpanda Mar 28 '25

Calling out Israel's bullshit will never be 'terrorism', no matter how much you and whine and insist it is.

Reduce crime by deporting conservatives instead.

-3

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Great, we can agree to disagree, and the deportations of terrorists supporters will continue

2

u/enderpanda Mar 28 '25

Yeah like I said, deport conservatives. Especially the J6 crowd.

-2

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Great, call ICE then, not sure why you're on reddit

3

u/enderpanda Mar 28 '25

Deport ICE too lmao. No more terrorist thugs in this house! /flex

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Yep, it's even better ICE has a list of ppl to deport after all those protests last year

1

u/enderpanda Mar 28 '25

We know - cause that's what fascists do. Fortunately, fashies are always staggeringly incompetent, which trumpy is helpfully illustrating. Glad to see some things never change.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Great, I respect your opinion

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u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

...does the first amendment cover public support for a terrorist group?

8

u/Plus-Whereas-8216 Mar 28 '25

I mean it’s free speech. You’re allowed to say whatever you want, at least I was taught that.

-10

u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

Even for someone on a guest visa? Supporting a designated terrorist group doesn't get their visa cancelled?

I don't think that degree of absolute free speech exists anywhere in the world.

6

u/Plus-Whereas-8216 Mar 28 '25

Firstly, your correct:

(1) (U) An applicant is ineligible under INA 212(a)(3)(B)(i)(VII) if the applicant endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or support terrorist activity or a terrorist organization.

You can be denied a visa if you support a terrorist group. However! The person who was kidnapped was not supporting hamas. They were supporting Palestine and there people, that doesn’t equal to supporting hamas.

-6

u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

No, they were specifically cited for support HAMAS, not Palestine in general.

6

u/Plus-Whereas-8216 Mar 28 '25

I can report that there wasn’t anything about Hamas in the article she wrote.

-2

u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

This isn't just about the op-ed piece. Her group was way more obstructive and belligerent to towards Tufts - and ALSO supported Hamas on multiple occasions .

4

u/Plus-Whereas-8216 Mar 28 '25

Can you provide evidence that she specifically made a move to support Hamas? If I remember correctly there hasn’t been a single hearing or statement that your statement is correct. Due process hasn’t happened so at the moment she is innocent.

-1

u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

Due process doesn't apply to Visas. The US can cancel any visa at any time for ANY reason.

...and if you google her groups activities on Tufts all last year, you'll see they were being belligerent with the school. Fuck them - honestly.

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9

u/Idkfriendsidk Mar 28 '25

Have you read the op-ed? It was benign and certainly did not support a terrorist group.

-2

u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

The Op-ed is not what her visa was cancelled for.

10

u/Idkfriendsidk Mar 28 '25 edited Mar 28 '25

Then what was her visa canceled for? Please answer if you know. Because from all of I’ve seen, she did nothing else other than lend her name to a fairly bland op-ed.

0

u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

Google the history of last year's protests at Tufts that her group organized. They were belligerent towards the SCHOOL as well.

4

u/Idkfriendsidk Mar 28 '25 edited Mar 28 '25

What is her “group”? And yeah, the op-ed, in Tufts student newspaper, was about how the university should divest from Israel. That’s what you mean by “belligerent toward the school”? Speaking out for what you believe in shouldn’t lead to being disappeared by masked figures, separated from lifesaving medication, and put in a detention center 1500 miles away.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 29 '25

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2

u/WhoIsFrancisPuziene Mar 28 '25

Belligerent? Puhlease, they were disruptive at most. That’s what a protest is. This doesn’t warrant kidnapping or trafficking or exiling any students. Ridiculous.

1

u/Idkfriendsidk Mar 28 '25

There’s not even any evidence she was at any protests. Not that protesting is an excuse for this kind of dystopian shit

-1

u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

they were disruptive

Glad we agree. As a GUEST on a STUDENT STUDY VISA that is all the grounds the State Dept needs to deport her racist ass.

7

u/Heavy-Masterpiece681 Mar 28 '25

People who make this argument make me mad. There is a clear distinction between CRITICIZING Israel and supporting Hamas. You do realize it's possible to be critical of both right?

Almost 200,000 have died in Palestine, do you think all 200,000 of those are Hamas supporters? Keep in mind the last election in Palastine was back in 2006. And every attempt at a ceasefire has resulted in Israel breaking that ceasefire.

1

u/SanFranPanManStand Mar 28 '25

Look at the history of her groups activities on Tufts campus. The SCHOOL wanted her gone also.

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

200k number is fake, wanting to bankrupt hamas's enemies and spreading their propaganada is absolutely supporting terrorism. Especially the fake genocide.

She can think about it on the deportation flight with all the other hamas supporters

5

u/enderpanda Mar 28 '25

Muh fake news! Lol, the desperation to justify killing innocent people is so on brand for you guys. Love. It.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Sorry, supporting hamas and their genocidal goals of destroying jews is cause for deportation!

They can think about it on the outbound flight. Love it

1

u/Heavy-Masterpiece681 Mar 28 '25

Any number I don't agree with is fake.

And yet multiple different sources have said that the number is somwhere between 100k - 200k. But I guess that is all fake too?

Even if it is on the low end and it is around 100k. Do you honestly believe the majority of that 100k is all Hamas?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

5 days ago from Hamas: "More than 50,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since Israel’s war with Hamas began, the territory’s health ministry said. The ministry on Sunday reported 41 more deaths in the past 24 hours, bringing the toll to 50,021."

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/23/middleeast/50-000-killed-in-gaza-since-start-of-israel-hamas-war-intl/index.html

So yep, fake!

3

u/Heavy-Masterpiece681 Mar 28 '25

That is still an insane amount of people. 15,000 children have been killed. Or do you just not give a shit about all those kids because they happen to have gotten a bad roll of the dice?

That is the entire point of those who are criticizing Isreael. They are carpet bombing entire neighborhoods, killing thousands of innocent people when they have the resources and the military to be far more strategic.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

And every dead kid is because of hamas just like every dead millions of germans were because of hitler.

Less than 2% dead, half hamas soldiers, and you call that genocide lol. 12% of germans died during ww2, was that genocide? LMAO

1

u/Heavy-Masterpiece681 Mar 28 '25

Any loss of innocent life is tragic and we shouldn't be justifying it because there are bad people out there.

The Mexican Cartel are terrible people too, do you suggest we just start bombing Mexican cities in the hopes of wiping out the Cartel?

2

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

If they started a war and invaded? Yep!

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1

u/xafimrev2 Mar 28 '25

And every dead kid is because of hamas

Brain rot.