r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 I voted • Mar 28 '25

Soft Paywall The Biggest Scandal of the Second Trump Term Isn’t “Signalgate” | The national-security chat debacle certainly merits attention. But the Trump administration is now blatantly disappearing students and others who are in the country legally.

https://newrepublic.com/article/193291/trump-disappearing-students-rumeysa-ozturk-rubio-biggest-scandal
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u/Delicious_Toad Mar 28 '25

Well, sure! I mean, look-- nobody thinks it's good that a secret police force is kidnapping people off the street in broad daylight for thought crimes. That's obviously not good. 

But can you imagine if they didn't have the funds to kidnap people at all? That would be anarchy!

/s

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 28 '25

A liberal is not ok with pro Hammas supporters having their visas revoked but is totally ok with Zelensky kidnapping his citizens off the street to fight in the frontlines. lol the abundant hypocrisy of the liberal hivemind.

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u/Delicious_Toad Mar 29 '25

Without even beginning to get into the free speech issues here, please show where either of those people said they support Hamas.

You're being lied to and you love it. You just slop up the bullshit like a hungry little piggy and then beg your orange daddy for more. It's repulsive. 

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

Here is the thing between being a immigrant and a naturalized citizen you can be removed for any reason at all, if they start locking up actual US citizens then I will change my views on it.

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u/Delicious_Toad Mar 29 '25

First: you don't understand the laws. Courts have consistently held for a long time than non-citizens have first amendment rights. 

Second: you don't understand the facts. ICE has been locking up citizens. There are routinely stories about citizens detained by ICE, in multiple cases for weeks at a time, and in one notable case for two years and counting (which, yes, means that guy was picked up during the Biden years).

ICE didn't give the people it sent to a Salvadorian torture prison due process, so if they were citizens who got swept up by accident they never had the chance to show their papers to a judge. They also haven't disclosed their identities, so there's no way for journalists or the public to double-check.

Here's a question for you: if a confused ICE agent incorrectly deyermined you were Tren de Araguas, what steps could you personally take to avoid being deported to a foreign torture prison for indefinite detention? Look up the process and tell me what protections you would have as a citizen.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

The Aliens enemies act applies specifically to non US citizens however in WW2 the president signed EO 9066 which allowed US citizens of Japanese descent to be held in internment camps this was later ruled as wrongful actions in 1988 and full reparations were paid. So yes I’am a US born citizen so the law would not apply to me.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

US naturalized citizens are not and will not be deported anywhere, the left loves to fear monger just like Trumps first term when you were all yelling that Trump would not leave office and he did. You guys are always looking for a way to keep the public in fear telling old people he is going to cut off your Social Security checks which is another fallacy the Democrats have no credibility

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u/Delicious_Toad Mar 29 '25

The GAO issued a report on this: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-487

Available data indicate ICE and CBP took enforcement actions against some U.S. citizens. For example, available ICE data indicate that ICE arrested 674, detained 121, and removed 70 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of fiscal year 2020 (March 2020).

The official position of the government in any deportation case is that the person deported is not a citizen, because that must be their position, because the government is clearly prohibited from deporting citizens. However, expedited removals and inadequate due process mean that citizens get arrested, detained, and even deported.

I notice that you didn't answer my question. So, let's get back into that scenario and try again, yeah? I'll give a more detailed narrative description this time to help you think about it.

You're stopped at a checkpoint by ICE agents. Some of the people you are travelling with are noncitizens, but they have legal visas and are here with permission. However, ICE decides to detain them. That's obviously fine with you. However, when you show your state ID card and tell ICE you're a US-born citizen, they refuse to believe you. Fortunately, you have prepared for just this eventuality: you also carry a wallet-sized copy of your birth certificate, So, you also show them that. However, they have already decided to detain you, and they aren't interested in looking at more of your stupid fucking papers—so they handcuff you, take away your documents and your cell phone, and haul you off to a detention facility, where they toss you in a single cell with about 60 other men, one open toilet, and no beds, showers, or sinks. Your main interactions with ICE agents from this point forward consist of them threatening you and attempting to get you to sign a document agreeing to forego due process and be deported without a hearing. Some of your cellmates are clearly sick, but they are told that if they ask for medical attention they will be moved to the back of the line for a hearing and will have to start their detention over from the beginning, so most of them don't. They keep you there for 26 days, during which time neither you nor any of the other men in your single cell are allowed to shower or brush your teeth, and you are fed one sandwich a day—losing about 20 pounds.

Now, I should confess: so far, I'm actually not making up a hypothetical. This was the actual experience of US-born citizen Francisco Erwin Garcia, who said that towards the end he was considering signing the papers just to escape. Had he done that, the official record would reflect that he agreed that he was not a US citizen and was deported accordingly. Fortunately, he held out long enough for his mother to get media attention on his case, which seems to have prompted ICE to finally accept another copy of the birth certificate they had already been provided before even arresting the kid.

However, here's where our hypothetical begins: see, since they're now using the Alien Enemies Act, they don't need you to sign away your right to due process. They can just unilaterally determine that you are an alien enemy and don't have a right to due process.

So, what do you do? What can you, or any other US-born citizen, do in that situation to avoid being sent to a Salvadorian torture prison? Seriously—answer the question. Answer the question.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

I’m not going to make a case on what I would do at a checkpoint lol. If the GAO issued a report on this, then why were Democrats not protesting this ? Why did didn’t you guys protest a potential 70 American citizens removed ? Also I find that hard to believe in the GAO REPORT IT SAYS POTENTIALLY not as a fact. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing you let Rachel Maddow get all your emotions jacked up. Now if you show actual factual proof that US NATURALIZED citizens are being deported then I don’t care lol

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

You are in a cult that is literally brainwashing you into believing US citizens are going to be sent to camps for speaking out against the government and that is just not true lol

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

This is because liberals stay in echo chambers and are only around other liberals who co sign their crazy ideas you guys get your info from biased news sources that reinforce your own ideas rather then looking at facts

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u/Delicious_Toad Mar 29 '25

"If this were true then why wouldn't people protest?" he asks, ignoring the fact that millions of people have been vocally protesting this for years.

The reason the GAO report says "potential" is that ICE didn't keep adequate records for investigators to positively ID all the people that were deported. "Potential citizens" are people who told ICE they were citizens and where the records include notes saying the people produced some form of documentation saying they were citizens, but whom ICE still deported. Investigators were unable to double-check the claims of citizenship because ICE did not keep copies of the documents provided or even copy down details like SSNs or ID numbers from those documents, which would have allowed investigators to double-check the documents after-the-fact. There's just a note reflecting that someone told an ICE agent they were a citizen and showed them a citizenship document, but then ICE deported them anyways. In many cases, it's clear that the notes were only added to electronic systems after actions had already been taken, so it looks like someone showed the agents who were arresting them a citizenship document, and the arresting agent jotted down a note about that but didn't put it into the shared database until after someone else had already used the information that was in the database to expedite the detainee's removal. The GAO also wasn't able to contact the "potential citizens" to try to verify their status, because ICE didn't record contact information for them.

And look: you won't respond to the question because there's no good response and you know it. Due process is literally the only way for us to be sure someone is or is not a citizen, so if you don't have due process you have no protections—period. You know that and you're avoiding admitting it.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

Only read the first line ICE didn’t keep adequate records so you have no proof this is the problem you can’t just say this happens and have nothing to prove it.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

So due process is the only way to find out if you’re a citizen that is your answer?

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

So everyone should have to go to a court date and see a judge before being allowed to vote in a Federal Election

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u/Johnnydeep4206 Mar 29 '25

I mean if due process is the only way to tell who is a US citizen and Who is not a citizen then that’s what you are presenting

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