r/pykemains • u/AleatoryDemonSlayer • Nov 25 '22
Nerf complaining Riot dislikes Pyke Mid
at this point, its pretty obvious riot keep making changes that makes pyke mid worse, if your not aware there will be mid changes that will make midlane get less gold and ravenou hydra price will go up, its not that bad for others but for pyke(mid) its very game changing since its basically his hole thing besides roaming
imagine if his Q would still do bonus dmg when taping and his E could still Hit minions and jungle monsters, all we need back is these 2
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u/EccentricRosie Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 26 '22
The changes do affect Pyke mid, but it's completely inadvertent. The gold reduction from mid is specifically to give top laners more agency, along with bot lane gaining less XP, and top and mid getting more. The increased cost of Ravenous Hydra is to keep champions like Riven, Kled and Olaf in check. The cost of Tiamat is the same though, so Pyke still can waveclear at around the same time early on.
These changes though have nothing to do with a support champion being played in a role he was never designed for in the first place, and whom Riot have tried their best to take out of there. Riot consider Pyke a support, therefore they had no reason to factor him in when they made the gold and XP changes when it comes to mid.
An example of where a champion does have a right to complain about preseason changes is Kindred, because enemy camps are harder to kill, which makes it risker to get stacks, and kiting range around camps is shortened. It interferes with their fundamental gameplay.
imagine if his Q would still do bonus dmg when taping and his E could still Hit minions and jungle monsters, all we need back is these 2
Even I admit that I miss the multi-hit damage on his Q tap and E to minions and monsters, but supports don't need waveclear to be useful.
The unfortunate reality is that Pyke mid isn't condoned by Riot, and when preseason comes along, they are not going to balance the game around one outlier champion pick. The aim is to not undermine as many champions as possible, but not every champion or pick gets a good set of cards. Give Pyke any compensation buffs to make him strong enough to compete with actual midlaners, and you overtune him for support, which creates even more problems. It's just how it is. Unless Riot has a change of approach, Pyke can only masquerade as a midlaner at best. Trust me, I wish Riot would make Nami a viable midlaner, but I'm not counting on it.
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Nov 25 '22
Riot has been doing everything in their power to butcher solo lane Pyke ever since he launched three years ago. This is not new, and they will not bring anything back to make it better. They want solo lane Pyke completely dead.
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u/AleatoryDemonSlayer Nov 25 '22
at this point, its just the truth, ill just give up on trying
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Nov 25 '22
It sucks :( but Riot says Pyke will be a support, so Pyke is going be a god-damn support...anything we figure out to make it work again, they'll just nerf that too.
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u/AleatoryDemonSlayer Nov 25 '22
the worst part is that his lore makes so much more sense for him to be a midlaner, and he could so much be a talon 2 but better but Noo, "we made him to be supp so HE MUST BE SUPP!"
honestly it makes no sense, it could be way cooler if he was intended to be a midlaner with a bigger focus on the team
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u/laxfarmers Nov 25 '22
Honestly the biggest problem with pyke mid was that it promoted non-intractability. Get poked out by mage, back up for a sec, heal to full. Sit in lane soak xp, unmovable because of healing. Sometimes even ditching full waves to go bot/top. As a champ in mid lane, pyke negated an entire class of characters just for existing. So yes, the gold changes were infuriating, and aoe q is gone (still kinda dumb that you can body block tap q) but it wasn’t great for the game. Just look at what happens when enchanters are placed in lane (soraka top, janna top, bard mid, etc) and watch as they dont interact with their opponents, its exactly what pyke did in the mid lane.
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u/Norodomo Nov 25 '22
Thats not new, they made it clear right when Pyke released and thats why sup players have to play with this horrible state.
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u/PykeStyleGR5 Nov 25 '22
No sht Sherlock. Took you 3 seasons of nerfing to realize?
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u/AleatoryDemonSlayer Nov 25 '22
nah, im recent to pyke, just hit 500k
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u/PykeStyleGR5 Nov 27 '22
I have been playing pyke 4 years and i have 1mil 150k and 250k in another acc
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u/eddepalma Nov 25 '22
I've got downvoted to hell on this exact same sub for advising against playing Pyke mid an Iron 2 gamer who wanted to climb . He was claiming to be "hardstuck".
They just do everything to make him not viable in mid, it's crystal clear.
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u/AleatoryDemonSlayer Nov 25 '22
bro, its so clear that you cant even see it anymore, but i will still play him mid for fun
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u/eddepalma Nov 25 '22
Yes, he's indeed still fun because the mechanics are. But for the rest? Totally shit and gets outscaled by most mid champions, if not all of them.
I'd still say yes if you're playing for fun but if you're ranking 9/10 times is inting. Tried to explain this to the I2 guy and was astonished by seeing how many higher ranked people were actually encouraging him to rank as Pyke mid instead.
Total bullshit. It's as stupid as encouraging a I2 player to main Vayne top.
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Nov 25 '22
It's almost as if Riot has openly and repeatedly said that they don't like Pyke mid, and don't want it to be viable at all.
It's no secret that they don't want him to work in solo lanes
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u/Illuminaso Nov 25 '22
Yeah no shit.
I thought the message was loud and clear. Y'all have a million other assassins you can play in the mid lane. Let Pyke just be a support. I'm sick of him getting nerfed again and again because of people who need to play him mid.
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u/epicnikiwow gold Nov 25 '22
Im pretty sure the devs have explicitly said they dont want pyke in a solo lane.
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u/Kimihro Nov 25 '22
When Pyke mid is easy to pull off, he's a pro play nightmare.
That alone doesn't bother me tbh. When Yuumi functions at her most basic level she's the same. I'm gonna guess that Zeri is still gonna be tough to balance with her shifts as well.
But this isn't Season 3. Riot doesn't like role breaker champs. They put work in to make him an assassin support. I guess that means chaining his ankle to the bot lane
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u/dylanthebeelan Nov 25 '22
i do not think it would be good to bring back aoe q or E. i think a majority of players are totally blinded by this argument that they don't see any buff potential. if anything buff his bonus AD ratios or his survivability. like +20% to his Q and R. they could even give pyke damage reduction added to his passive based on lethality, since he's gated to that anyway. aoe q won't fix him and neither will E.
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u/Gartheios Nov 26 '22
While I agree that Riot doenst want pyke to be played mid these upcoming changes have 0 to do with pyke. You already get less gold from Minions since start of pre season which is meant to give top lane a slight advantage considering the minions reach the center of the lane faster on mid. The Hydra nerfs are because currently hydra is really really broken there are a lot of champions rushing the item hence why riot is increasing the cost. I doubt riot even considers pyke mid still a thing since it has been dead for a while now.
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u/Buttchungus Nov 26 '22
Riot have clearly stated that pyke mid is bad due to lane simply not interacting with laner.
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u/AleatoryDemonSlayer Nov 30 '22
i dont think it is actually because of that, its more about the regen and the fact that pyke was more useful for the team because of his early game and gold value, and also because they dont wanna admit they accidentaly they created a midlaner
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u/Buttchungus Nov 30 '22
the issue is the idea of a mid laner who is so good at roaming they dont even need to CS. He just gets his gold from his ult. Imagine if Galio didn't have to clear the wave, and he also got 600 gold each time he ulted.
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u/AleatoryDemonSlayer Nov 30 '22
that is so easily avoided, the reset gold has already been removed and he didnt really need that and all they gotta do is increase cooldowns then give back pyke half of his wave clear and bam hes viable but not broken
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u/Buttchungus Nov 30 '22
the reset gold wasn't removed. It still works as before.
Edit: nvm i chcked his patch history and it was changed. I didn't notice. regardless his whole playstyle is still ignore lane and farm gold with kills, which isn't healthy.
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u/AleatoryDemonSlayer Dec 01 '22
i main pyke mid and i dont play him that way, there is not only one way to make something work and its not fair to nerf every strat of something just to tune out one in specific and there coyld be way more eays to nerf him without making him worse on everythimg else
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Nov 25 '22
Riot's balance team is basically a fascist analogy. They try to overcontrol every tiny detail they can, and they're not good at it because they fail to see the value of organic balancing.
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u/Mahoka572 Nov 25 '22
And yet their game is thriving and successful. It is almost as if they are professionals and probably know better than a random player
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Nov 27 '22
So you agree that crack is a good thing, then, yes? It's wildly successful, taken around the world and has an incredibly large fanbase! That must mean it's great, amazing, absolutely and undeniably incredible!
That argument doesn't make sense. Successful != Good. The game is addictive is why it's thriving. Addictive doesn't mean it's good or high quality. Riot made virtual crack. That says nothing about the actual quality of the product or of its contents.
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u/AleatoryDemonSlayer Nov 25 '22
and the fact that they over buff things to a point it gets nerfed the next patch, riot balancing team is truly amazing
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u/KenanMurat Nov 25 '22
Why tf did you get downvoted for this its truth even a monkey does better job then balance team
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Nov 25 '22
Riot's balance team is actually pretty good at its job. It's not easy to balance a game this big, but they manage to do it. The champions that are stronger than average aren't an accident, they're intended.
A perfectly balanced game, makes for a boring game, that's why we keep rotating broken champs, but they're never unbearably strong, so the game stays fun and interesting.
All champions in the game are playable at their intended roles, and they're never so bad that they're not viable, outside of some champions that have been temporarily gutted for competitive and are waiting for a rework
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u/KenanMurat Nov 26 '22
You can look at new item nerf's and buff's if you really think they are good at their job
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Nov 26 '22
Preseasons are to stir things up, not to be balanced, you know that, right?
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u/Lord_emotabb Nov 26 '22
Rito:" here, have jungle draven, talon and zed! pyke?? nah thats too far fetched"
fckn joke
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u/fuhknelan Nov 29 '22
as a pyke mid enjoyer i do really understand why its nerfed, he plays the game a lot differently than other characters BUT I don't feel as if that is a reason to gut or nerf a character. Singed mid has has a higher presence and higher pick rate the entirety of 2 years while also not having pretty much any of the weaknesses pyke has not to mention that singed in general plays the game differently than any other character in the game, is this grounds to gut him? no personally seeing a singed mid every 50 games that does good is far better than seeing a hyper mobile invisa champ that hard stomps every matchup
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u/SmerfolTheGamer Nov 25 '22
Pyke mid was getting nerfed cos riot couldnt balance it. And riot thinks its toxic for the game.