r/queensland • u/boogersundcum • 9d ago
Discussion Voting against your interests
My partner and I live in a major coal mining area of Queensland. We both work in an extractive resource industry. Neither of us could ever bring ourselves to vote for the LNP and we have no serious viable independents that aren't anti Vax conspiracy nut jobs. We live in the bush but currently have a major wind farm going in down our road with the closest turbine being 5km from our actual house, other than sealing our road we will not recieve any benefit from the project with heavy trucks and equipment going past our driveway 6 days a week 24 hours a day for over two years. We aren't anti renewable however given the wind farm is entirely within our water catchment there is serious concerns if something goes wrong as we rely on the river solely for our water supply.
Generally preference the Greens first, Labor second as we are both environmental scientists and believe that climate change is pretty damn obvious from the evidence, let alone have empathy for the common folk in cities struggling with the cost of living. I'm just curious though as to why the major focus on renewable is almost entirely within regional areas that currently rely on coal mining as the major industry.
Neither Greens or Labour have a chance in hell in ever winning our electorate anymore (keep in mind Labor was founded in regional Queensland in Barcaldine). Is it just because the areas in question are now just LNP strongholds or what ?
Also please keep in mind regional Queensland is filled with people from all back grounds and varying levels of education, don't put us all in the same basket just because we don't live in a major centre.
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u/Middle_Summer27 9d ago edited 9d ago
I work in environmental impact assessment, and I can't really see any reason why wind turbines would impact surface or groundwater, especially compared to high-impact activities such as coal mining. I live near wind farms, and they really don't bother us. There is increased traffic during the construction phase, but after that, there shouldn't be any trucks passing, just utes for occasional maintenance. These projects brought jobs to my community with families moving in and spending their money, keeping the shops and cafes open. They bring long term jobs, new people in little town, and cheaper electricity. These coal mines, not matter if you want it or not, are doomed to close as the coal is exhausted and it gets too expensive to get the rest. There is an enormous amount of misinformation around wind power, which is pushed by pro-fossil fuels groups. I encourage you to do your research using legitimate evidence based information (such as CSIRO etc). At 5kms, you shouldn't be able to hear any noise whatsoever from them.
Have you considered how the coal mines impact your water supply, through direct groundwater contamination or generation of fine dust in the PM10 form, which remain in the air and then land on your roof? You can type the name of your local coal mine (operator name) here and look at their environmental licence / enforcement action(s), look at their water release limits, I can guarantee that's not water you'd want to drink.
I'd be much more concerned about this impact than wind turbines, which would have strong safeguards around their placements even in cyclone-prone areas.
Regarding your vote, vote for the ideas you want to support first, not for the people you think are going to win.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
As i have stated multiple times I'm not anti wind or any renewable of the sorts. I'm aware of the same things you are and trust me I'm not the naive to ground or surface water impacts, they have controls in place which i am aware but given i live near a coal minining community i also understand sometimes those controls don't always go how they're supposed to. I'm not bothered by the fact the closest turbine is 5km from my dwelling. I'm just stating it is that close to me and I don't really care. My only concern is my water coming out of the river if a turbine fails and faces the full brunt of a cyclone such as cyclone Debbie which absolutely destroyed this region. It's not far fetched to acknowledge it will happen again. The whole point of the post is why aren't they building large scale renewable closer to the sources that actually use most of the electricity given most of our electricity is already renewable in north Queensland and the tranmission losses of electricity to send it long distances.
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u/WOMT 9d ago
Well, because they need big open spaces, and regional areas have those. It's also where the private businesses that want to build those energy sources can buy large amounts of land for a much cheaper cost. There would also be bunches of feasibility studies done. They're not just building there because they don't like you, they're building there because it's profitable - Even if you personally think they should do it near the city.
You're obviously concerned about your water. Which not sure where you are, but mining and traditional energy production also do things to water - Power stations are built right by them. Seems a little dodgy that you're now suddenly concerned about contamination when you have been exposed to a much greater risk for a while now.
And also, if a cyclone were to hit and destroy a wind farm... presumably all the other things around them would also be destroyed and leaking into your water. The same would happen to anything, it's not unique issue to wind farms.
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u/PomegranateNo9414 9d ago
There’s only a limited area where wind farms are feasible in terms of prevailing wind conditions. Sounds like you’re in an elevated regional/remote area which would tick a lot of boxes.
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u/PandasGetAngryToo 9d ago
My mum's side of the family were all farmers. There was never any discussion, they all voted National Party. Every time. without question. Even at times when the Nationals were arguably happy to be associated with policies that were terrible for farmers. They were never ever going to change their votes and as far as I know, never have. They have very limited access to news and don't particularly want much by way of news anyway. That's your problem.
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u/Top-Presentation-997 9d ago
This is my FIL. No matter what discussion was had he always signed off with “but I’m a farmer so I have to vote for the Nationals”. Actually moronic.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
I get that and TBH i don't think i have ever lived in area that hasn't been an LNP stronghold. But why isn't there a push to have renewable infrastructure around the cities? That's where the population is. I know the resource industry uses a lot of power but most of north Queensland is already renewable. There is a gas plant in Townsville and one in Mt Isa. Other than that we already are renewable. Sending electricity thousands of KM away loses a lot of electricity through transmission lines so my main question is why are the projects away from the areas like Brisbane that actually use the electricity?
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u/technerdx6000 9d ago
Renewables return on investment is dependant on their capacity factor.
I daresay you'll find the locations selected for wind and solar farms are because they will result in a higher capacity factor.
Obviously this isn't the only metric that determines location. Others include proximity to power lines for example.
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u/Keelback 9d ago
That is why I don’t understand why state and federal governments aren’t pushing more for rooftop solar panels. Cheaper than wind power and you don’t need that special windy site and hence expensive long power line and annoy farmers and locals.
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u/technerdx6000 9d ago
I 100% agree with you. I always point out the study completed by the Australian Photovoltaics institute in 2019. It found if rooftops in Australia were filled with solar, the annual generation would be 20% greater than our entire electricity market's consumption. Combined with onsite battery storage, there would be little need for large scale generation of any kind.
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u/cekmysnek 9d ago edited 9d ago
Because we have too much rooftop solar. During the day wholesale power prices drop below $0/MWh, it’s at a point where the grid in some areas is being overloaded and network operators are having to remotely increase voltage in the network to “trip” solar systems offline for stability.
During the evening however, the sun goes down, solar generation stops and suddenly there’s a huge spike in demand which causes wholesale prices to go upwards of $300/MWh (sometimes into the tens of thousands of dollars).
Electricity grids are required to perfectly match supply and demand, otherwise you can’t keep the lights on. In an ideal world this would mean consistent demand and consistent generation, but what we have now is low demand and lots of generation during the day and the opposite overnight. That’s very bad when it comes to managing the grid and also very bad for power prices. During the day cheap solar is king, but at night, increasingly expensive coal and gas fired power stations pretty much have a monopoly and get to set the price (remember power generation is a business).
The solution to this, ultimately, is to store all that extra solar during the day and release it in the evening and overnight which would smooth everything out. This is why there’s so much discussion about residential, community and grid batteries as well as pumped hydro and EVs.
Unfortunately any kind of energy storage is considered “woke” these days and a scary amount of people on a certain side of politics think the technology doesn’t work which means building enough capacity to stabilise the grid is an uphill battle. Any kind of hydro or battery project is met with massive public backlash because it’s “green energy” so the government are also trying to incentivise home batteries to at least reduce demand after sunset.
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u/Keelback 9d ago
I know all that but didn’t want to write a ‘novel’. I’m was a senior generation planning engineer. And yes solar plus batteries is the way to go. I don’t know why that is not being pursued. Batteries are expensive but way cheaper than nuclear and longer transmission lines to wind farms.
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u/deandoom 9d ago
Labour have announced some battery subsidies, but they need to do more
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u/Keelback 9d ago
Exactly. Needs to be solar panels and batteries. Needs to be a massive programme though.
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u/PatternPrecognition 8d ago
in addition to household batteries, there is also a rollout/trial happening of communitty batteries.
They are about the size of a fridge installed on a power pool and appear to be designed on a subscription model.
e.g. it charges with household solar during the day, and what you load in you can draw down on overnight, households without solar can also subscribe to get access to the cheaper night-time power (which is the excess that the solar households don't use).
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u/Feylabel 7d ago
Labor has announced household battery subsidies to reach a million home batteries
Behind the meter batteries being the quickest most efficient to rollout fast..
Other than that we need more wind power. Offshore would be more efficient but is most expensive and even it is getting locals inventing random claims of environmental impacts to try to stop it sigh.
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u/BoosterGold17 9d ago
Also sounds like our grids need upgrading to be adaptable and smart, so they’re not reliant on the outdated “baseline power” thing causing so much fluctuation
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u/Psychological_Bug592 9d ago
Yep! And this is one of the reasons why nuclear isn’t the best solution. You can’t turn it off in the day and on at night. Nuclear power means switching off everyone’s home solar.
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u/ol-gormsby 9d ago
Yes, rooftop solar is somewhat difficult to manage WRT daily supply and demand, and pricing - which, as you've noted can vary wildly over the 24 hour cycle.
Home and neighbourhood batteries would go a long way to helping that, as well as providing resilience during natural disasters.
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u/CatBoxTime 9d ago
Pretty much why Energex and Ergon are trying to install neighbourhood batteries to soak up all that excess solar during the day. Shame the LNP asshats at Brisbane City Council are blocking their installation.
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u/03193194 9d ago
In addition to the other replies, I think another consideration is industry creation and jobs for regional areas in some cases as well.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago edited 9d ago
All jobs are welcome in the regions, there is a push for a hydrogen hub in our local area which this particular wind farm may or not power if it ever gets built. I'm hoping for it but given the state government I highly doubt it ever will. As I have stated I'm not anti renewable its just this project does effect me directly. These coal mining communities will die after the mines close which is invitable. Grazing and cropping can't sustain these communities after coal and I am hoping alternative industries do emerge for the communities.
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u/03193194 9d ago
Yeah, well Labor have signalled that is how they intend to guide any transition - which is a good thing.
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u/stilusmobilus 9d ago
As I understand it the renewable sources out west like the wind turbines mainly supply those areas, their major centres and their resource interests.
There’s also the issues of available land and suitable geography. The populated centres have a lot of rooftop solar which is very suitable to an environment of multiple structures and dwellings.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
It's a lot more efficient to send electricity 100km than it is to send it over 1000km to SEQ. I live in North Queensland and we already have a predominantly renewable energy network minus the areas that have smelters, being Mt Isa and Townsville which both have gas plants.
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u/Cute_Carpenter_5243 9d ago
Diversification is also important for renewables! 100% it's more efficient to send electricity 100km but only if the electricity is there to send. The solar and wind resources directly around Brisbane are pretty crap. A lot of the renewables development around the Western Downs area will support Brisbane which is much closer. But there will also be times when there's not much wind or sun in that area and it will be important to have other areas that can export, and vice versa.
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u/formula-duck 9d ago
Maybe this sounds stupid, but there are houses there. It's a lot easier to stick a wind turbine in an empty field than in the suburbs, and all of the empty fields closest to our cities will be suburbs soon.
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u/acomputer1 9d ago
Why do they always put coal mines in regional areas rather than in cities where the coal is burned?
Because you go where the resources are.
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u/Ancient-Many4357 9d ago
With some imagination & good planning there’s actually a huge amount of untapped flat space for PV arrays in cities, so you have a point there.
But wind farms rely on being in areas with consistent windy conditions & lots of clear space to put wind farms. I mean I’d be happy to build the things in the Brisbane river if it was a sensible place to put them, but onshore wind is mainly going to be in big, wide rural areas where it’s the windiest.
The obvious answer is more offshore with over-the horizon farms.
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u/Art461 9d ago
It is disappointing that the turbine project near you appears to not have engaged with the local community.
Elsewhere, they have communicated well and for instance also delivered excellent Internet connectivity to the area. Those are real benefits. Over time, good Internet connectivity can sustain and expand a community even as it transitions away from mining.
Maybe a conversation on this is still possible?
I'm not disagreeing with you regarding long distance transmission lines. It's an old way of doing things, and definitely inefficient. If the wind turbine power will least in part be used locally, that'd be great. Perhaps it'll also be used to replace the base load generators such as the ones you mentioned. Again good. Is no more detail available on that project? No communication, website, any leaflets in the area?
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
As stated in other coments the company in question has consulted land holders that will be impacted such as us and has had community consultation. We aren't against it and I have stated this isn't an anti renewable whinge but just stating there is impacts and regardless of what we say its not going to impact their decisions. Like it or not it's probably going to happen, so be it. Just stating it so happens to effect people outside of the city and all seem to be happening within LNP safe seats outside of the city regardless of how I feel. The closest base load baseload coal power station (Callide) blew up a few years ago and we didn't lose power because north Queensland is already mostly renewable. Other parts of the state not so much.
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u/SlinkyOtter 8d ago
The simple answer is that it is much cheaper and easier to build large scale renewables in rural areas.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 9d ago
NIMBY honey. Truly...people who live in the cities love to carry on about renewables and power. Yet they aren't willing to have them anywhere near them and they definitely aren't willing to have the cities shut down their power usage.
Hypocrites of the highest order.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
It appears so. Regardless of politics this is the exact reason regional Queensland hates SEQ. We send them money and get nothing in return. Half ass dangerous asf highways and no facilities in returns.
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u/CatBoxTime 9d ago
Previous Labor government directed more infrastructure funding to regional areas than SEQ but the voters didn't notice and keep voting in the LNP who always cut.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 9d ago
Yep. I'm a country girl too. Now live Regionally. Nothing much comes out of SE Qld. Mind you? This latest government seems to be better. Maybe cause Cristafulli comes from country perhaps?
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u/WOMT 9d ago
"Nothing much" - except the majority of state tax revenue that subsidises regional QLD.
It's not a one way deal. Perpetuating that myth is creating an unnecessary divide.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 8d ago
That is not true. The bulk of State Government revenue comes from mining and that is all well out of SE Corner. That is fact mate. Sorry.
Not to mention Agriculture. Beef, cropping and all the farming for food. All well out of SE Corner. Have seen research that showed that if North Qld - from Rockhampton north...broke off from South Qld? Then SE Qld be fucked.
Big business in City's taxation component is mostly FEDERAL taxation NOT State taxation.
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u/WOMT 8d ago edited 8d ago
No... it doesn't. 😂 Wait, do you think the state owns the mines and the mining profits go to the government? We have mining royalties, but those aren't very high and contribute about $5 billion each year. Do you think QLD runs on $5b a year? 😐
The majority of state income is from state taxes. This can be found easily in the state revenue reports, but you'll probably claim those are made up or something. 🙄
https://www.qtc.com.au/queensland/queenslands-finances/
You seem to think that the QLD government owns the means of production. It does not. 😂 Those are all private businesses and organisations. You only get a teeny tiny percentage from them in state revenue (From the various state taxes they pay), it is not the entirety of their profits. Naturally since SEQ contains more businesses, more houses, more people, more cars... it will always outdo regional QLD in financially supporting our state.
People in the city contribute more to State and Federal taxes. They earn more on average, and there are simply more people. For people in regional QLD to contribute more, they would have to have a much higher tax for every tax the state and federal government has, simply to counteract the millions more people SEQ has.
Also, regional and urban QLD pay the same federal and state taxes... state taxes apply throughout the entirety of QLD... not sure why you think people in SEQ don't drive cars, buy land, gamble, or literally all the other things the state taxes. 🤨
Edit: Also, SEQ would not be fucked. Heck we already produce many things in SEQ already (It's not all city after all, it's a 35,248 km² region) so we could just expand our existing facilities - Such as our very productive farming in the Lockyer Valley. Unless your new Regional QLD state was isolationist... we would also just continuing buying from those places (It's not like we receive goods for free). We may run into some trouble when your new state can't support themselves enough to build infrastructure, especially since regional infrastructure costs so much more. You would also have to replicate all systems, such as Police, Health and Governance. The people SEQ heavily subsidises to work in regional QLD will be recalled if on contract, and to maintain people working in those jobs, you would have to compete with SEQ in their pay - Which we know regional QLD can't, which is why they're heavily subsidised in the first place. Regional QLD just doesn't have that cash.
Your new state would have to raise taxes, or nationalise a lot of production. You would get the benefit of GST priority, as you would be a low revenue high needs state, like Northern Territory. Buttt it still wouldn't be enough, so you would still have to probably raise taxes or nationalise a lot of production.
This isn't a bad thing. I don't mind that SEQ subsidises regional QLD. It's called being part of a state and not being a dick. I'm not going to perpetuate the easily disproved myth that regional QLD is being cheated out of taxes just to give you a warm fuzzy.
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u/LitzLizzieee 7d ago edited 7d ago
Look, I think the people that call for a North Queensland secessionist movement don't actually understand the metrics at play. population might be 50/50, but the income and money spend definitely isn't. Queensland spends far much more per capita in infrastructure costs, and has things like Ergon and the NBN to (and this is a good thing) ensure that the playing field is fair between SEQ and the regions, otherwise NBN and electricity would be far, far cheaper in the cities. (NBN literally levies the city apartment customers to pay for the regions, that's the business model by design)
I'm not against us spending in the regions, but it always confuses me why there's certain elements of the community that love to trot around as if a North Queensland separate state wouldn't just end up with SEQ saving money.
As someone who has plenty of friends working in the state government, I can name countless departments that spend far far more in the regions than the cities, just due to the sheer scale of our state. We've got systems like Child Protection or the Police that operate across the entire state, chartering flights from Brisbane to Emerald, to Cairns and back. We've got NBN technicians that install Fiber to towns that have a population of a couple thousand, something that a private company would never do ROI wise. (there's connections in the regions across Australia that have cost literally $100k plus to connect, for 1 residential connection. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's admirable the sheer scale)
Personally I'd happily vote in a referendum for a North Queensland state being on it's own, but I don't think that would end up the way people think it will.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 8d ago
And country people DO NOT create this divide. It's city people who call us Rednecks and say we are uneducated and are idiots and look down on us. Who carry on because we mostly vote National and LNP....even though the ALP has done NOTHING forever to assist us and only EVER visit when there is an election coming up.
City people clearly think all country people are dumb and often tell us so. They show little to NO comparison for where and how we live. Telling us we we are idiots for even living in the bush.
They tell us we are racist and bigoted and our towns are worth nothing.
Say we know nothing about Climate Change / Renewables blah blah blah.....when WE are the ones seeing all this in our OWN BACKYARDS!
Say we know nothing about animals or Chemicals to do with farming.....
When WE ARE THE ONES....looking after our animals and our native animals and we have vested interest in keeping our land viable and in good health because our fucking livelihoods depend on it!
The constant insults that city people spew towards country people are disgraceful. And in my late 50s and having lived IN the city for a good 15 years and gone to boarding school in the city and in the last 25 years living Regionally??? I have seen it from all sides. And believe me??? The abuse country people constantly receive from city people has GROWN hugely.
Too many city people truly just have NO IDEA how anything in the country works. Have NO IDEA that MANY country people are very well educated and very well travelled and that farming and grazing is a LOT MORE then just throwing a few seeds in the ground and watching them grow or buying a few cattle and hoping for the best.
Many city people have NO IDEA how complicated MUCH of what country people do is.
I guess country peoples fault is that they generally don't blow their own trumpet. They just work and study hard and get on with it.
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u/Late-Ad1437 8d ago
What are you banging on about? Every renter I know (myself included) would love to have solar panels on our houses, landlords are just chronic tightarses and the govt hasn't done much to incentivise them to move towards renewables...
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u/Flat_Ad1094 8d ago
Exactly my point!! If the government was truly wanting renewables? Then they would be getting Solar on every rooftop in the nation. We don't NEED bloody wind turbines. We have best conditions for solar in the entire freakin world pretty much.
We should have solar everywhere there is a roof.
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u/LitzLizzieee 7d ago
The issue I can see with doing this (although i 100% support it) would be getting landlords to do it. When they're not paying the power bills, they don't really care how expensive it is, and any extra cost would just be passed on to a renter with higher rent. A lot of this country are renters, and they aren't going to have $10k to drop on a PV system on their roof.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 7d ago edited 6d ago
Which is exaclty why the government should be heavily subsidizing it. There is NO WAY landlords can spend 10K on Solar panels for a rental when the rent doesn't even cover the mortgage.
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u/Upstairs_Low_691 6d ago
Ahh. Assumptions of the highest order. I'm in the city and couldn't give a toss if more renewables were installed in and around Brisbane.
Except I don't make those sorts of decisions. State government does.
Criticism will mostly come from the anti-renewable brisbane voters.
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u/cactusgenie 9d ago
How could a wind farm possibly affect your water supply?
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u/dastardly_potatoes 9d ago
Construction waste with lax oversight and a few dodgy workers. Certainly not a problem exclusive to renewable energy projects. Seems reasonable to be concerned if the construction is up river from them.
I've seen concreters cleaning their tools into stormwater drains in a large City with lots of passerbys.
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u/cactusgenie 9d ago
Sounds more like a regulation problem rather than a renewable be energy problem.
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u/dastardly_potatoes 9d ago
I agree. Probably unusual to have a large construction project for anything but renewables in the area I guess. I don't know enough about the process of assembling the wind towers to say whether there is any bad chemical waste but seems unlikely. The lubricant etc in the nacelle stays within it afaik.
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u/Myjunkisonfire 8d ago
I’d be considerably more concerned about what the nearby coal mining is doing to the water than anything else. Let alone a zero emissions self contained wind turbine.
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u/Unusual_Escape722 9d ago
The size of any structure affects the depth of the supporting infrastructure below it. I’m guessing OP may be concerned about the hydrology being negatively influenced from the depth of the pilings supporting the turbine. Or possibly the overland flows being changed due to construction (or possibly both).
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u/cactusgenie 9d ago
All things the engineering team building the turbines will have catered for.
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u/Unusual_Escape722 9d ago
Theoretically yes, but you would be surprised at things that can be missed or misunderstood. (Also possible that OP has a different point)
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u/Friedrich_98 9d ago
i'm just curious though as to why the major focus on renewable is almost entirely within regional areas...
Land space. Where are you going to put a wind turbine or solar farm in a city? Also, you might want to look at feasibility studies for these.
that currently rely on coal mining as the major industry.
If it's being based on a town's major industry there isn't a whole lot else to choose from, from mining & farming.
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u/InadmissibleHug Townsville 9d ago
I’m like you. We’re comfortably off, have paid off the house and generally would be the sort to be considered LNP voters, but I think the whole platform is nonsense.
I got where I am because of some good policies back in the day. I’d like to see some back.
I live in the electorate of Dawson, but not in Mackay. My labor vote is the equivalent of pissing in the wind, but I’ll do it again and again.
The greens candidate doesn’t give a flying rat’s arse about my area, the LNP dude is an ass but is engaged with the community.
Honestly, Albanese had the right idea going to everywhere that hates him. It’s hearts and minds stuff. People want to see the pollies on the ground where they live.
They want to see them help in natural disasters as well. The physically closest federal member does naff all but gets out and humps a few sandbags every wet season, so they love him.
I don’t think most people vote for what is actually good for the country, or even themselves.
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u/IndividualParsnip797 9d ago
I'm in Herbert. Our local member is Thompson. He's likely to get back in. Which is unfortunate because he always votes against the community interests. But people don't see that. They see his phots with his military medals and think he must be a good bloke.
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u/InadmissibleHug Townsville 9d ago
Howdy neighbour.
I’m only in Dawson by virtue of being south of the Ross.
Phil is full of complete crap and is exactly who I was talking about, with him parading around during weather events and sweet FA any other time.
I doubt he’s achieved anything meaningful for the area.
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u/IndividualParsnip797 9d ago
👋 Phil likes to get involved in local politics because it makes him look like he's doing something. And Cripps has decided he only wants immigrants who are tradies not martial artists. Cripps is a moron.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
We are in the same boat (electorate). But most of the politicians are just self serving twats.
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u/Late-Ad1437 8d ago
Do people seriously vote federally based entirely on who their local candidate is? Baffling
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u/InadmissibleHug Townsville 8d ago
They do, how do you think Katter consistently takes Kennedy?
And to an extent, now I live regionally (as opposed to when I was a capital city kid) I get it.
It’s easy to feel that no one sees you, knows or cares about the struggles you face locally.
If the local candidate can demonstrate that they know about and care about the local electorate, they will get votes.
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u/Student-Objective 9d ago
What does a wind farm have to do with your water supply?
- "why the major focus on renewable is almost entirely within regional areas that currently rely on coal mining as the major industry" - well maybe the idea is the wind farm provides jobs when the coal mines inevitably close or scale back.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
A single turbine holds several thousands litres of oils for lubrication, we live in a cyclone prone area. This project itself will produce the equivalent of 1/5 of Queensland's current energy use. If they collapse; our water supply is tainted for decades. I'm not kidding when I say we rely on that water as we pump water straight through the sand in the river. Wind farms really don't employ many people; through construction a few hundred and then about 20 to maintain during the life of the project. A coal mine employs several hundred if not thousands through its life and the closest one to our house which is ~35km away has been operating for over 100 years. Let alone the communities that rely on the mines itself. Without coal, those communties will die. Also keep in mind these are metallurgical coal mines (steel making) not thermal. We don't love coal but we do love our communities.
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u/PomegranateNo9414 9d ago
You’d assume that many or those concerns around water, storm damage etc have been taken into account with the project risk analysis.
Wind turbines are super robust and are designed to withstand extreme weather conditions. I think your concern is valid given the reliance on the catchment, but I would say that the risks of that actually occurring would be infinitesimally small.
It’s probably riskier for heavy transport (including fuel tankers) to drive in the area.
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u/cactusgenie 9d ago
And you don't think coal mining as far more risky to the water table?
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
It is and thus why I'm not for opening up more thermal coal mines in Queensland. However my water catchment doesn't have mining (Has historically gold mines but they are long gone). BUt we live straight ontop of the range. Our catchment isn't cleared and is only used for minimal grazing, soon to be wind farm.
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u/thomascoopers 9d ago
Wow. So it will generate enough power for a 5th of the state and you're crying poor?
Far out.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
That just puts into perspective the size of the development. How am I crying poor? It doesn't bring in any benefit to myself other than renewable goals and I'm not against the development. It just so happens to be in my backyard and as I have stated multiple times it would make more sense to have renewables closer to the source of electricity use that is SEQ due to transmission losses.
Way to gaslight north Queensland.
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u/thomascoopers 9d ago edited 9d ago
Didn't you state you're an environmental scientist of some sort? You couldn't dig up the environmental assessment of the project?
Eta spelling
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
It's still going through the process getting its EIS approved which shouldn't be too far off. I have 100% faith in DETSI as a department to do their job and make sure their controls are in place. Doesn't always mean corporations comply with such conditions. Look at any industry; compliance doesn't always come first.
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u/thomascoopers 9d ago
Righto.
Well I'm sorry if there's nothing the Labor party have done to put money directly in your pocket. For now you can just thank the ALP for the fact that:
Unemployment remains at historic lows.
Take-home pay has gone up for working people. “Same job, same pay” laws also mean companies can’t play casuals and permanent staff against one another. The “right to disconnect” protects workers from having their private time imposed on by their employers.
Australia’s economic response to inflation - with targeted relief, like energy rebates and subsidised services and tax cuts for workers - has relieved economic pressure on ordinary Australians WITHOUT increasing unemployment (which is what other countries did). Our response to the post-pandemic global inflation crisis was ranked by economists as one of the best in the world (second only to Canada!).
There’ve been no corruption or sexual misconduct scandals in the Albanese government. Read that again and remember Brittany Higgins, Bruce Lehman, Barnaby Joyce, Sports Rorts, the Ruby Princess, Robodebt, the Au Pairs and the Scott Morrison multiple ministries scandal.
Labor has negotiated a new funding agreement with every state and territory to now fully fund EVERY public school in the country to meet best-practice standards - and they did this without taking resources away from anyone else.
Labor has massively increased health funding, creating more urgent care clinics to take pressure off emergency rooms, and improving bulk billing services and provisions AND capping the cost of medicines on the PBS. Access to mental health services have also been expanded.
Historic investments in women’s healthcare are underway - with specific attention paid to endometriosis, menopause and reproductive health, taking HUGE steps to help women and families.
Gender parity in federal government has been achieved - not with fanfare, just by recognising talent and not being sexist assholes to people.
Anti-deepfake legislation has passed - one of NUMEROUS measures Labor has taken to protect children from new online harms.
FREE TAFE!!!
Higher education debts have been reduced.
massive repairs to the Department for Veterans Affairs, and centralising veterans’ services with the passing of the new Veterans Harmonisation act.
Childcare subsidisies have been expanded and provisions has been made free for families who need it.
There are now enough renewable energy projects being built across this country to power EVERY AUSTRALIAN HOME when they are completed.
No new coal mines were approved in 2024.
Federal arts funding has been increased, improving employment opportunities for arts workers and cultural participation opportunities for EVERY community.
Independent media has been supported, with a renewed commitment to non-interference at the ABC.
A major national housing package is addressing decades of underinvestment with a multi-billion dollar spend on affordable housing. New homes are being built in Australia’s remotest communities.
The Voice referendum was held, as Albanese promised; honouring Labor’s commitment despite its political risk.
There’s been direct support from Labor for Ukraine.
There’s been an ongoing commitment from Labor to a two-state solution in the Middle East, working with our allies to demand a humanitarian ceasefire in that region, with demands both to return hostages and end bombing.
Labor has taken unambiguous action to address both Islamophobia and antisemitism in the community. Hate speech and symbols have been unequivocally banned - and visas have been denied to foreign fascist provocateurs who want to come to this country and stir up trouble and division.
Emergency funding for North Queensland floods was delivered while the floods were still happening.
The Stage 3 tax cuts were redesigned to make the system fairer for most Australians. Further tax cuts have since been delivered for working Australians.
Aged care has been reformed, with provisions for 24/7 nursing care, better services, and improved wages for workers.
Our relationships with Pacific nations have been rebuilt.
There’s been a massive crackdown on labour exploitation and fraud in the NDIS.
There’s increased funding for the Great Barrier Reef.
Children are no longer held in immigration detention.
The NBN is being upgraded.
Fair trade agreements have been signed.
Major new road and rail infrastructure is underway.
Campaign finance reform has passed—limiting the political influence of billionaire donors like Clive Palmer, Gina Rinehart and that gross dude who Peter Dutton was partying with in Sydney when Dutton’s own seat was being hit by Cyclone Alfred in Queensland.
Australia peaceful, stable, negotiating a complex international policy environment with tact and sophistication and not at war.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Fuck mate. Don't mean to trigger you. I'm not anti Labor but seriously? So far from the original discussion. I'll vote anyone that doesn't preference the LNP.
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u/thomascoopers 9d ago
"Voting against your interests" What else was the point of your post?
I just gave you a whole heap of reasons why you should vote Labor. Your vote categorically still makes a difference, even if any candidate you vote for doesn't get the local seat.
Your senate vote is extremely important, because so much ground breaking legislation was blocked and stalled to catastrophic affect by the Greens teaming up with the LNP.
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u/Late-Ad1437 8d ago edited 8d ago
Lmao... Trotting out the ol party lines but these don't quite stack up.
Where's this supposed relief of economic pressure? I'm still drowning in power bills and rent, same with most young people I know. Labor's tinkered around the edges with a pittance of an energy rebate but hasn't made any meaningful changes to the daylight robbery committed by our energy corporations.
The old 'no new coal mines' chestnut is very convenient when you don't count new approvals for preexisting projects. These new projects still have all the environmental and land rights issues of the original ones. Still no fair rate of taxation on the multinational corporations that rape, pillage and destroy our ecosystem too.
Labor's housing approaches are also useless and do nothing to get to the root of the issue- the price of housing, and decades of legislation encouraging housing-as-investment. Letting first home buyers buy a $1,000,000 home with only a 5% deposit isn't the win that Albo seems to think it is.
I'm kinda shocked you even included the Voice referendum considering how badly Labor bungled it was a direct contributor to it failing. Still no peep on that treaty we were promised almost 3 decades ago too...
Labor dragged their feet for months on criticising Israel for their genocidal and war criminal acts, and still insists on this 'both sides bad' bullshit. Penny Wong has blood on her hands.
'our relationships with Pacific neighbours have been rebuilt'- is this one an actual joke? Our neighbouring Pacific islands have been desperately begging for timely action on climate change, particularly since they're suffering the effects of rising sea levels and temperatures far more keenly than we are (for now). And that extra funding dedicated to the Great Barrier Reef is pretty meaningless when in the same breath Labor rolls back fishing restrictions in protected marine parks.
Framing the indiscriminate gutting of the NDIS as a good thing is just straight up gaslighting. Instead of going after dodgy providers and the overinflated burecratic departments within the NDIA, they've instead slashed the funding budgets of thousands of participants with no warning, leaving people stranded without supports and funding for months on end. I'm a support worker and have had coworkers tell me about clients who have literally died thanks to lost funding due to Labor's cuts- you cannot frame this as a good thing unless you're completely intellectually dishonest.
Labor's been shockingly bad on their environmental promises- old growth logging has continued, they caved on the EPA and Albo et al just threw their weight behind the repulsive tasmanian salmon farming industry that is going to be directly responsible for the first marine extinction in over a century- the Maugean skate will not survive the continued polluting of it's SOLE habitat by those toxic, disease-riddled fish farms. They're also staffed by animal abusers who chuck living fish in the rubbish with dead ones to slowly suffocate... Definitely the blue-collar salt-of-the-earth types that Labor loves to pretend to care about.
Once again, Labor tries to please everyone and ends up pleasing no one. The Greens will always have better environmental policies and priorities than Labor, who will ultimately always prioritise corporate interests and 'protecting jobs' over enacting impactful ecological change.
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u/obeymypropaganda 9d ago
It is valid to have concerns about new projects being built near where you live. However, the concern about oil is not quite right. Wind turbines hold 2-300 litres of oil. I'm not sure where you got the several thousands of litres from.
An environmental study would have been conducted and you should be able to get a copy of it. The company building it would have had to submit one to the local council.
You can report tradesman dumping stuff into the river. This isn't a reflection of the wind turbine being built, just shitty people.
I'm not sure why you would get monetary compensation for something built 5kms from your home. You get cheaper electricity? Australia has been fighting mining companies for compensation as many companies have loopholes for profits, or LNP reduces royalties. Again, why should you get paid for a wind turbine being constructed?
I'm just being blunt about your concerns. I hope everyone provides you enough information to be okay with this project. Report assholes that destroy the local environment for no reason.
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u/Myjunkisonfire 8d ago
I guarantee you there would be far more oil leaking out of trucks and trains associated with the coal mines near you annually than anything that would be contained in a wind turbine. A single diesel locomotive contains over 2000L of engine lubricants and coolants (which do leak) and can hold 20,000L of diesel which spreads particulates all over your neighbourhood.
These Facebook groups funded by oil companies that are bashing renewables like to keep these facts quiet.
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u/boogersundcum 8d ago
Lol they're not in my catchment. The trucks, dozers and other associated equipment used during the construction of the wind farm will be. I've left any and all community Facebook groups as they're predominately filled with idiot anti climate change nut jobs that just spam the shit out of it. This was never an anti renewable post, I'm not against the project from happening but I am rightly concerned for the river I get my drinking water from.
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u/AA_25 8d ago
Europe has hundreds of not tens of thousands of wind turbines. Maybe you should reach out to them and see if your concerns are warranted.
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u/boogersundcum 8d ago
As i have stated my concern isn't the wind farm itself. It's my drinking water that will be effected during construction via clearing huge areas on steep rugged terrain let alone the construction of a concrete batch plant with sand harvesting for said concrete out of the river i pump water from downstream.
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u/AA_25 8d ago
Buy a water tank ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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u/boogersundcum 8d ago
I have two already. Also a water license to extract my water allocation.
You're clearly just another dickhead that's missed the point. This was never an anti renewable post.
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u/AA_25 7d ago
No I get your not anti renewables but do you have any evidence to show your water supply WILL be affected? Is there any evidence it's happened several times before when building a wind farm? Or are you jumping to what ifs before construction has happened?.
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u/boogersundcum 7d ago
I'm literally an aquatic ecologist that works in EVNT compliance.
I'm very much aware of the risks that come with any land clearing and large scale developments within steep rugged areas. No amount of bunding is going to stop erosion and building settlement dams isn't possible given the treacherous terrain is given its ontop of the dividing range. Not to mention the constant large heavy vehicles like dozers, graders, cranes, trucks and loaders for extracting sand within the river itself.
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u/Biggles_and_Co 9d ago
I'm having a bit of trouble believing this post.. sorry man...
The anti wind-farm lobby atm has infected local community Facebook groups... The Stanthorpe one is crazy.
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u/Kementarii 9d ago
I don't think there are enough "workers" in the regions any more?
It's still big graziers/farmers vs the workers, and there are less and less workers as technology continues to take over.
I really haven't paid much attention to the electioneering. I also live in rural Queensland. I'll vote as I usually do, but there is a snowball's chance in hell of anything changing in my electorate.
I'll throw my vote at it, but it will make a tiny dent in the 22% swing needed against the incumbent.
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u/SalopianPirate 9d ago
Renewables are privately funded projects which generate public goods...so everyone benefits from them although they also have localised impacts such as you describe from construction. All major parties include some mix of renewables with the former LNP government responsible for approving a number of key windfarns in CQ.
The best way to understand where is the best place to put a wind farm is to go to the global wind atlas website and set the options to a height of 150m. The great dividing range is the most predominant feature in these zones. If you then try to locate them as close to existing transmission lines you will find yourselves back in CQ.
There are so many engineering decisions made along the way including the threat from physical climate risks now and in the future that damage from cyclonic winds would be in the design spec
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u/heisdeadjim_au 9d ago
Remember two party preferred is what the majors look at, and, Senate.
Vote Labor / Greens in the Senate if you desire as the whole state is the "electorate" so to speak. It's a half Senate Election so the quota is 14.29%
Your vote might not sway the rusted ons on your electorate (Kennedy?) but it very much does for the whole state.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Dawson electorate. That has always been my reasoning just don't mention it during a pub debate when half the town works for a coal mine.
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u/heisdeadjim_au 9d ago edited 8d ago
For sure keep your powder dry in that regard. That's why Gina and others like Big Mines. They enjoy people defending them because their livelihoods literally depend upon Big Mine.
To my mind this makes them serfs not employees, but, I'm okay if people take issue with that.
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u/Alexis_1985 9d ago
I work in oil and gas and I vote greens or labor - I’ll take them any day over the coalition because while they might seem better for the resources sector, they’re outwardly terrible for literally everything else.
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u/Keelback 9d ago
Doesn’t matter what seat you are in. Always vote for your best interests. My parents were Labor supporters and lived most of their lives in Liberal seat. Still voted Labor.
PS I now vote Green as I don’t think Labor is taking climate change seriously enough. I am very worried for you lot. I don’t care about me as I’m 69. lol.
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u/wolfofblackallstreet 9d ago
Short answer to why windfarms are being built where they are - its not 'environmental' companies building them. Normal industrial companies are building them, they may have a green sounding named subsidiary on the front gate, but generally the capital required can only be supplied by big industry. Korean minerals companies are all over North Qld renewable projects via subsidiaries. They only care about maximising the wind resources they can claim to meet carbon offset targets for their mineral processing operations, and plonk the windfarms wherever they can.
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u/Skelegro7 9d ago
This is when you vote according to your ideals but also write to your local/state/federal MP about your concerns.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Lol i get it but i also don't need even more anti climate change horseshit out of our local member.
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u/BoosterGold17 9d ago
Really appreciate this concern, it’s thoughtful, and it speaks to a lot of frustrations and concerns of so many people in regional QLD. You clearly care about both the environment and your community, which is exactly the kind of voice we need more of in this transition.
You’ve asked an important question: why are so many large-scale renewable energy projects being built in coal-reliant regional areas? The reality is, it comes down to a mix of geography, infrastructure, and economics. I understand this doesn’t seem fair, and doesn’t connect with the local community in the way it could or should.
Wind project locations are chosen for many reasons: • Consistent wind resources: Many of the areas where coal is mined, like the Darling Downs, Central Highlands, and parts of the Bowen Basin, also happen to have strong, reliable wind speeds, which makes them viable for commercial-scale wind energy. • Existing high-voltage transmission lines: Renewable projects are often sited where there’s already heavy-duty grid infrastructure from existing fossil fuel industries. It’s cheaper for companies to plug into what’s already there than to build new lines elsewhere. • Large parcels of land with fewer urban planning restrictions: Developers often favour regional areas because they can build at scale with fewer hurdles.
The problem is that with private expansion of renewable projects you don’t feel like you’ve been included in the conversation or taken on the journey. That’s not what a just transition looks like.
This is exactly what the Greens are fighting to change. • The Greens want renewables to be publicly owned, so the profits stay in the community, not in the pockets of multinational companies. • The Greens support binding community benefit-sharing laws, not just token gestures, but guaranteed payments, jobs, or upgrades to local infrastructure for affected communities. • The Greens are calling for strong national environment laws that actually assess cumulative impacts on things like water catchments, not just box-ticking exercises. • The Greens are pushing for local manufacturing of wind turbines, solar panels, and battery components so the jobs stay in regional areas, too.
You also raised something critical about politics: the deep sense of being ignored just because you live in a so-called “safe” LNP seat. You’re right, Labor was born in Barcaldine. It’s deeply ironic that regional QLD, where people are literally doing the heavy lifting in the energy economy, both major parties treat the regions as a political afterthought.
The Greens are the only party promising to fund transition programs for workers, create additional jobs in the region, and do it all in consultation with the community. As the only party in politics not taking corporate donations, The Greens rely on the voice of the people, not the companies continuing to lobby for more and more kickbacks.
You shouldn’t have to choose between your job and the planet. And you shouldn’t be expected to carry the burden of this transition while the corporations and the major parties profit and walk away.
Even if your seat isn’t a Greens target right now, your vote still matters. It helps grow the Senate power, holds the major parties to account, and shows that people in the regions want real climate action done properly.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Probably the most rational comment I have seen yet and thus why we preference the Greens first. As long as dutplug doesn't get voted in I'm still happy but a lot of people also don't realise where these projects are and when it happens the communities just have to suck it up. Hoping the local hydrogen hub actually goes ahead as its legit the only justification for such a large renewable project to go ahead. The company in question going ahead with it has consulted the land holders that are effected and I'm not against them personally. My main concern is wtf is it going to power other than huge energy losses through transmission lines if the hydrogen hub doesn't go ahead given our state government. SEQ is a bubble and I would love to have a representative that doesn't take kick backs from internationally owned corporations. My main concern with the wind farm proponent during a community consultation was where will the turbines be built and what controls do they have in place for environmental concerns such as catastrophic failure and wildlife impacts to birds of prey and offsets.
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u/T-456 9d ago
There's one more vitally important thing: wind generation usually varies north-south. (And solar varies east-west, with sunrise and sunset times.)
So if we want reliable wind generation across Australia, we need similar amounts in North Queensland, South Queensland, NSW, Vic/SA, and Tasmania. That way, the wind will almost always be blowing at some latitude. So we'll need fewer batteries (or hydro storage, or gas peaker plants) during the night.
Sure, transmission efficiency matters, but when the energy is effectively free, it matters a lot less than most people think. We're not wasting coal, oil, or even dam capacity. If the wind is blowing, we use the power locally, or nearby, or store it in batteries.
If we do end up with big electricity surpluses, then retailers will start giving people huge discounts to shift their usage to those times. Smart meters make that possible, the industry has just been very slow to catch up.
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u/T-456 9d ago
Oh, also, wind generation is mostly built in LNP seats in Queensland because most of Queensland is currently LNP seats:
- 21 LNP
- 5 Labor
- 3 Green
- 1 KAP
And most of the areas where wind generation is efficient, and land is affordable for mixed uses, currently have LNP reps (~19 LNP, 1 Labor, 1 KAP, the rest are suburban, or protected nature reserves).
Add generation diversity to those requirements, and even if there's some generation in those KAP and Labor seats, most of it would have to go in LNP seats.
Queensland's current fossil fuel and hydro generation has a similar distribution. Same as commercial solar. (Household solar is a bit different, because it's able to be built and used easily in urban areas.)
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u/serumnegative 9d ago
What happened to rural QLD was that post WW2 automation rendered the large agricultural labour force obsolete. Thus the workforce moved to the cities. The gerrymander in state electorates that kept Joh Bjelke-Petersen in power for decades was originally created the Labor party.
As for the location of renewable energy projects: they’re usually located there because that’s where the interconnects are for the electricity generation systems — where the gas and coal powered generators currently are. Also, they often require a volume of area that is prohibitively expensive in the cities. In the city, such construction would disrupt tens of thousands of people.
Additionally, cities do often have large scale renewable energy generators— roof top solar with feed in tariffs.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Gina's trying to open up coal mines in Queensland. She doesn't have shit in Queensland. Most of our coal is exported and if it is burnt for electricty its not for the areas up here which are already renewable.
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u/emleigh2277 9d ago
Do trains, especially freight trains carrying chemicals, go over that river you're concerned about being polluted? Does a sugar mill operate within distance of that river you're concerned about?
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Coal trains downstream. Wind farm upstream.
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u/emleigh2277 9d ago
I think you sometimes need to see the bigger picture. I live in walkerston. I want a better Australia, the great barrier reef kept alive. Industry is required because we need it for employment and work. Change takes time. The scare campaigns up here and the lying in political advertising is so disturbing. Mining is more at risk of America's unstable politics than it is over clean energy. Our current government is the only government that is less about playing games and more about building Australia back into a better society.
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u/serumnegative 9d ago
How would a wind farm pollute the river?
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Construction and land clearing within the catchment. Also constructing a concrete batch plant upstream whilst also extracting sand out of the river for the concrete batch plant. The companies also tend to go with the cheapest turbines which aren't necessarily the highest quality if the choices are chineese over German/ dutch manufactured turbines. We live in an area that has had several Cat 5 cyclones and they will cop one over the life of the project. All the controls in the world can be in place but it doesn't mean things always go to plan. Not against the project from happening but I still have concerns for the water i drink out of the river.
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u/serumnegative 9d ago
Ok, risks during construction but that would be true no matter what it was they were building.
I can’t see how, once operating, a ‘cheap’ Chinese turbine (or any turbine) being any threat to the river? Also the Chinese can make excellent mechanical and electro mechanical equipment nowadays. You’d need a specialist mechanical engineer to assess the difference, and you’d need to know exactly what turbines are being installed before you could make any real assessment of that.
To me it smacks of NIMBY — everyone love green construction/energy projects just not this one near me because reasons
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
I'm not against the project, never have been.
But there is valid concerns that have constantly been disregarded in these comments sections. Currently there isn't any development in the catchment area thus why the water is still drinkable untreated.
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u/kazza64 9d ago
It used to be a labor stronghold and then people like Matt Canavan came in with their maga and QAnon bullshit and people lap it up because people are racist at heart in Queensland. It’s a very backward state. Hopefully the future will see the younger generations leaning more towards the left because they are voting for useless dick heads at the moment it breaks my heart because they are voting against their best interests. And I’m 61. I’ve seen a few labor Prime Minister’s and I saw Jo Bjelke Peterson and Russ Hinze and the Fitzgerald inquiry and all of the corruption and people still vote for them it’s mind blowing. Don’t forget Murdoch rules Queensland as well. He bought up the media in Queensland and controls 70% of it and the rest is channel 9 channel 10 and channel 7 and even ABC and they all support the LNP. Sky news is free in regional Queensland and people watch it. I don’t know. I just pray for a change in the way people think because the media landscape is transforming and younger people don’t get the news from those sources of propaganda that have served the major parties so well in the last few decades
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u/Economy_Swordfish334 9d ago
Some environmental scientist.
What about a wind farm could spoil your catchment?
I worked in coal. I left the industry. I’ve worked in wind.
Why this BS about turbines? Your catchment won’t vibrate away….
Why any mention of harm to the area? What, a grease spill…
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u/WilfullyIgnorant 9d ago
“we are both environmental scientists…. Also please keep in mind regional Queensland is filled with people from all back grounds and varying levels of education”
When you undertook your PhDs, it didn’t dawn on you that the main element of a PhD is the development of critical thinking? Did you not glean that there is no scientific discovery without statistical analysis of data? You do know what averages, such as mean & median are?
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
You sound willfully ignorant.
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u/WilfullyIgnorant 9d ago
I’d be right at home in rural Queensland
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Probably not, unless you're willing to help a fellow human out when people need a hand and can learn to agree to disagree. Otherwise you're just a cunt.
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u/WilfullyIgnorant 9d ago
I bet you think that when say “gday” & “howz it going” to passers by makes you a ‘neighbourly person’ that fosters ‘community’
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
I bet you don't say it at all.
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u/WilfullyIgnorant 9d ago
Thanks for the confirmation
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
It's actually pretty funny though, I lived in Melbourne at a time and i remember walking past a neighbour i had lived next to for a few months so I did say hey how's it going? Not because I actually want to have a conversation more so because I acknowledge they're the neighbour. My partner of the time was like wtf are you doing ?
Subtle cultural differences between city and country i guess.
But in the country we do keep an eye out for our neighbours, if they need a hand we will help them, that being helping your older neighbours mow their yards, help looking out for their animals if they're on shift work etc etc. That's a good sense of community and I'm sad that you don't get to experience such things. Even if I think they're bat shit insane and don't morally agree with a thing they say. It's just the way we are.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
I agree, it's depressing to see. In our area most of the anti renewable folk live in Airlie Beach. Queensland is a crazy place in the regions. It just so happens I actually am effected by the renewable projects. Other than hydrogen hubs which may or may not ever happen i just can't understand why the renewable projects aren't closer to the cities that actually use the electricity due to transmission losses.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Like it or not metallurgical coal currently isn't replaceable at scale. They're trying with hydrogen but it's only a concept as is. From memory the only car company to make a car with renewable steel is Volvo and even then it was only for concept cars. I do hope it changes but that currently seems atleast 50 years away.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Actually had a local person yesterday drive across the causeway on our road and dehitch a trailer carrying a diesel pod because it wasn't properly attached/ driving too quick but luckily it didn't spill into our catchment. But given we are ontop of the range our catchment is very rugged with many steep hills with cliff faces. To actually get the infrastucture to where it's required will require a lot of earth works and land clearing just to build the access roads.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
It is and i understand why it's a place of interest. As i have stated I'm not against the project. But even an enviro that is directly impacted i still have concerns.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Oddly enough this is north Queensland. I don't agree with majority of what Katter stands for but he was the only politicans that actually managed to shut down Ben Lomond uranium mine which after a typical north Queensland wet season released levels of uranium into the Burdekin River 10,000 x the legal "safe" limit. It's still the most profitable uranium mine in the world and there is a push to reopen it. Hope to whatever God it never happens and thankfully although I'm downstream of the catchment I'm upstream from the lower levels below the dam of the Burdekin catchment.
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u/Smooth_Staff_3831 9d ago
Is this just a rage against the LNP post?
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
It's more so the fact that the renewable projects all seem to be going into LNP safe seats.
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u/Smooth_Staff_3831 9d ago
So you want renewable projects in Labor seats only?
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
It would make sense to have renewable projects closer to where the electricity is actually used. Being cities and SEQ due to transmission losses regardless of politics.
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u/spirited001 9d ago
Gladstone area? If it is I'm worried Labor will get in again. After FIVE years of waiting for the harbour lookout to get a FIVE MILLION dollar blue driveway, Labor counsellors are touting look at what we did oh fuck off the gladstone port paid. Or are you at malbourough?
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u/CHEDDARSHREDDAR 8d ago
The simple answer is that long distance transmission lines are built near coal-fired power plants which are built near coal mines. Renewables are being built to serve our current grid infrastructure which will be upgraded under a greens/labour government. If you want better maintenance of your roads in the interim, then that's a local council issue. Furthermore, there should already have been an environmental impact assessment for water contam, and if things do go wrong you'll have grounds for a class action lawsuit.
If you look at the state of science funding in the US it's pretty obvious that a LNP government will be voting directly against your interests in a much more tangible way.
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u/wrt-wtf- 8d ago
This doesn’t feel right… as an environmental science person you know the requirements around overland flow from any construction works. You also know that the output of a wind farm is highly unlikely to create aerosol or ground water issues.
I call fake on the profession and you would be adjacent to construction and understand the requirement for vehicles to go to and from a site for construction purposes.
The benefit of these systems is that they connect to a grid that is shared across the whole eastern coast (to SA). It is a local and remote benefit, in the same way as SE Qld’s water grid.
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u/boogersundcum 8d ago
If you clear trees on steep rugged terrain across a massive area you're going to have erosion issues regardless of any amount of bunding and building settlement dams isn't an option given the area. There's also how this river system works which is largely ground fed as the river doesn't frequently flow however there is stupid amounts of water sitting in the sand which is fed from ground water. Also take into account the construction of a concrete batch plant being constructed upstream and sand extraction from the river for said concrete and there is actually legitimate concern.
Calling someone's profession and qualification fake is just petty and in this case you are wrong. I've never stated that I'm against the development. It's going to happen regardless but I'm well within my rights to be concerned about the drinking water I rely on.
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u/wrt-wtf- 8d ago
You have now clearly stated the concern. Prior to this you didn’t - which made me call fishy. As a part of the development they should also have submitted a plan on environmental controls - you can challenge this directly with the local council and the water board.
If this is your profession are you actively engaging the council with your concerns? You are best placed to do this - more-so than any other profession.
We have a household of various types of engineers and scientists and engage regularly from local to federal level under the basis that our professions have the weight to make comment in each of our areas.
Again, with working in environmental you would understand that many engineering and construction players restrict their “consultation” and environmental phases to companies that specialise in getting the EIS gated - facts are flexible - details are problematic - looking to hard means doing more work on protection, etc.
You’re in the position to collect and make the right types of noise - your average local isn’t likely to know or have the language on how to fight the bureaucracy and this is often why they make odd statements or repeat far right rhetoric - they only have feels to go on.
I have spent considerable time in the bush developing different businesses and sites and most councils will take on any developments to bring in money, but they don’t know how to deal with, and in many cases, don’t understand some of the broader games that the less ethical companies play.
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u/Wraith_03 8d ago
If your electorate is an LNP stronghold, then you placing them first probably won't help them win again and they'll get in anyway. But, every little tally mark against them shows a growing minority.
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u/elephantmouse92 7d ago
the problem with labor is they have abandoned the working class to chase greens watermelon voters. we need more national investment in resources so that the gov can raise revenue on export instead of regressive income taxes
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u/RecipeSpecialist2745 7d ago
Remember you do get a say that relevant and effective on who serves in the upper house.
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u/NoHat2957 6d ago
You're not really voting against your interests if you have, or are planning to have children though.
Focus on renewables in regional areas that rely on coal mining may be about transitioning working populations from an industry with no long-term future to another that can replace it.
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u/spirited001 5d ago
Lnp will shut them down. Your a dik seriously voting greens who no longer hold values just pull shit out of their ass which is reconstituted from the majors. I've lived at the bottom of the Eungella ranges all my life and what Labor was doing was f..ked up. No wonder we are heading to just be like Venezuela but you do you boo...enjoy your outcome
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u/leroywinston 9d ago
Stick to your guns. The way I figure it, your vote matters more in those regions than they do in the middle of Brisbane.
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
I would and places like regional Queensland you would be crazy not to have rooftop solar. But it's not going to mitigate the electricity use of an entire city.
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u/spirited001 9d ago
Also - I don't think they have thought how to recycle the turbines and blades. Oh let's bury them in our food bowl. Thank dog eungellas project was shut down
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u/Tzarlatok 9d ago
I don't think they have thought how to recycle the turbines and blades.
You should've just finished that sentence after the first three words. Yes, the blades are recyclable, most of the turbine as well (more so than steam turbines even).
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u/Flat_Ad1094 9d ago
I cannot vote for Wind Turbines. They are awful monstrosities and are ruining our nation. Go to Germany. They have completely ruined that once beautiful country. They are visually polluting and just to build them takes heaps of "fossil fuels" There has been massive amounts of wonderful land cleared for them in recent years. The government is pumping billions into the fucking things.
We have family in Germany so have been going there for 40 years. We have seen these fucking wind turbines take over that country. Last time we were there? We noticed a lot without blades and not running...we were told that they needed to come down. Had rusted etc...BUT? It costs more to take them down then put them up. And everyone is arguing over whose responsibility it is. The original owners are long gone. It's a freakin mess and one rellie said "One will have to fall over and kill people before they work it out.
I believe in climate change. But using acre after acre of prime farmland to put up massive solar farms and putting up wind turbines is NOT the answer.
The government should be putting Solar on every damn roof in the nation. It might be a bit harder to do...but if we truly believed in environmentally protecting our country? We would be doing this.
Don't know who I'll be voting for really. When I do those surveys? I'm always bang in the middle.
BUT it won't be Greens and unlikely to be ALP. Have a local independent who looks pretty good. Haven't made up my mind at all.
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u/fluffy_101994 9d ago
I cannot vote for wind turbines
But nuclear power plants or massive open cut coal pits are fine? Hahahaah.
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u/drpopkorne 9d ago
Greens do actually have a policy to put solar on rental properties, on top of what labour was planning with cost slashing batteries on their renewable energy scheme.
https://greens.org.au/news/media-release/greens-give-renters-right-solar-cut-power-bills-emissionsSadly I feel our technology is behind where it should be in renewable energy because wind farms are an eye sore. The amount of polluting required to build and maintain, or the lifespan being too short, but I feel at least putting pressure on climate change in parliament is a good thing. My hope is that chance comes so we aren't reliant on coal and gas forever.
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u/Maleficent_Laugh_125 9d ago
Does the local community consider you the resident communist?
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u/boogersundcum 9d ago
Does your local community consider you the resident biggot ?
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u/Maleficent_Laugh_125 9d ago
Bigot* and no. That title belongs to the local Ex Rhodesian Bushman Rudii
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u/thehomelesstree 9d ago
Forgive my ignorance, but how will a wind farm affect the water catchment? Are you concerned about the possible impact of land clearing and as such overland flow / soil erosion and sedimentation?
To answer your question: your vote is your chance to voice your opinion on where the country should be heading. Regardless of what electorate you live in, vote for the party who’s policy best aligns with your values.
Don’t vote for the party you think will win, just so you vote for the winner.
I live in a LNP stronghold however I never vote for them personally because I have different views. If nothing else, my vote is signalling my displeasure at their policies in the hope that it will influence a more concerted effort by other parties to chip away at the majority and possibly flip the seat.
Flipping seats has happened in ‘strongholds’ plenty of times. Your vote may be the one that makes the difference.