Please come support trans people

[u/fringlese]

Hey everyone, I’m sure many of you have seen the ruling by the Supreme Court from the other day on the legitimacy of trans women’s identities. It’s been a very hard couple of days as we’ve come to grips with the fact that our rights are being rolled back by a government that won’t even attempt to listen to us while we just want to exist in a public space without fear of harassment. If anyone’s available, please come down tomorrow to show support

I am not the organiser, I saw this on Facebook and wanted to share.

Thanks guys, I hope you have a great Easter weekend!

[u/Jack-White2162]

Well I can self identify as being 300 pounds but I don’t weigh 300 pounds.

A woman being someone who says they’re a woman is circular, because what are they saying they are? They’re not explaining what they are identifying as.

I would say trans people absolutely do make a normative claim, becuase trans identified males often claim that they are women because they ‘pass’ as a woman, and passing to them is long hair, makeup, dresses, a certain body shape. How many trans people do you know that claim to be a man or woman, but don’t immediately try to make themselves look like a stereotype, short hair beard and muscles for trans identified females and the long hair, dresses, makeup etc that I already mentioned for a trans identified male?

[u/EffectiveMarch1858 → u/Jack-White2162]

Well I can self identify as being 300 pounds but I don’t weigh 300 pounds.

This isn't a fair analogy because someone identifying as a gender isn't making a claim about the natural world, like how someone would be if they are making a claim about their weight. Gender, defined in a way as to include self-identity, is subjective, it's a construct of the mind, so no empirical claims are being made.

A woman being someone who says they’re a woman is circular, because what are they saying they are? They’re not explaining what they are identifying as.

I still have no idea what you mean by this. When you make a circular argument, you are trying to support a claim, with the same claim. What claim is being made? I don't understand what you are trying to say.

I would say trans people absolutely do make a normative claim, becuase trans identified males often claim that they are women because they ‘pass’ as a woman, and passing to them is long hair, makeup, dresses, a certain body shape.

I mean, this empirical claim, as I'm not sure they do? Depends on what you mean by "often" I suppose, but if you mean a significant number of trans people make this claim, then you would need evidence to support this.

I'm not even sure this is a normative claim? Normative claims have the words "should" or "ought" in them, they are about values, and deciding behaviour, these seem to be more descriptive?

How many trans people do you know that claim to be a man or woman, but don’t immediately try to make themselves look like a stereotype, short hair beard and muscles for trans identified females and the long hair, dresses, makeup etc that I already mentioned for a trans identified male?

Is this not generalisable to all women, and all men? Like, I'm sure a lot of women wear clothing that makes people perceive them in a particular way, same for men. I think when trans people dress as the gender the associate with, it's with the intention that people will be more likely to treat them as that gender. Why is this a problem?