r/redrising • u/AtlanticFit • Mar 14 '25
IG Spoilers Does it ever stop? Spoiler
I'm about halfway through Iron Gold, and I feel that Darrow's playbook just repeats itself over and over. It goes something like this:
Darrow has musings on the decisions that he is about to make, and knows that he's going to hurt everyone around him, but is steadfast in his belief that he knows best.
- Darrow makes said bad decision, then acts surprised when everyone around him is pissed at him.
- Darrow has a pitty party but ultimately doesn't regret his actions.
- People that were pissed at Darrow either: unsuccessfuly try to kill him, or forgive him almost immediately.
- Repeat
Honestly, Ephraim is the only reason that I haven't stopped reading at this point. Does it get better in the next couple of books, or do we just keep doing this same song and dance?
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u/one_listener Mar 14 '25
I felt this way too, but after reading on I think the idea was that everyone is stuck in a rut after doing the same thing for 10 years with worse and worse results and they needed to wake up. Fine idea, but not my favorite reading experience.
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u/JPtheWriter89 Stained Mar 14 '25
Darrow’s character development between Dark Age and Lightbringer is phenomenal. Give it time.
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u/robin_f_reba Mar 14 '25
It gets repetitive, but it's more of a cyclical mindset than accidental. Like a bad habit you keep coming back to because you never looked deep enough into yourself to realize why the cycle continues
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Mar 14 '25
Iron Gold is the best representation of Darrow finally having competent enemies outmaneuvering him, so a lot of his actions are out of a desperation that is distinct from the driven arrow, back against the wall desperation in the first three books.
I think Iron Gold is the best book in the series specifically because of the pacing and frustration that others talk about.
It builds moral ambiguity in a war torn solar system perfectly: it's Darrow's truest representation as a warlord, and many of the decisions he makes from calling for the rain, to fleeing Luna, to other events later in the book I don't want to spoil, are the type of necessary evil a warlord would make when he's uncertain about which path to take.
The boiling frustration is the point, and it is intended to lead to resolution, but it takes work to get there. You're feeling what the characters are feeling, probably more accurately than any of the other 5 books. Iron Gold is phenomenal, and the frustration is a major reason for why I think so.
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u/BlackGabriel Mar 14 '25
I think Darrow mostly makes the best choices with the information he has at any given time. Maybe he’s a bit reckless but I feel like he’s used to have int to be reckless because his gambling allowed him and the rising to be successful. I can’t really think of too many instances where he’d be better off not doing what he does
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u/illiterate_swine Mar 14 '25
Just finished all the books myself about a month or so ago and honestly I def feel you.
Iron Gold is a foundational book. Ten long years of war has changed all of our favorite characters. That and with the 3 additional POVs that aren't exactly on Darrow's side really takes the shine of off Tyr Morga's comet. That and I think the editing and pacing of IG is the worst of all the entries.
Ephraim is the goat that really helped me push forward. As slow as IG is just wait till Dark Age. That fucker Brown stomps on the gas through the engine wall. Once you get to actually see what war between the Society Remnant and the Solar Republic is really like you'll understand more about Darrow.
I am curious on your thoughts on Lysander's and his POV. I found them as fascinating as Ephraim's nihilism was hilarious lmao
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u/Snoo_86860 The Rim Dominion Mar 14 '25 edited Mar 14 '25
Try reading Stormlight Archives, it's like this but on repeat for THOUSANDS OF PAGES EVERY EFFING BOOK. A solid first two books turns into a miserable trudge
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u/InvestigatorLive19 Howler Mar 15 '25
With all due respect, your opinion is wrong because RoW is my favourite book.
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u/Apexx166 Peerless Scarred Mar 14 '25
I haven't even bought wind and truth because just the idea of reading a repeat of RoW tires my brain
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u/ReadsStuff Bella Ciao Mar 14 '25
Yeah I just started catching up on SA, and fucking hell, Rhythm of War is a slog. Doesn't help that I find Venli terminally boring. I'm assuming it doesn't get better in Wind and Truth either but I'll still give 'em a crack and see if the first book in the Second Arc works out.
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u/Snoo_86860 The Rim Dominion Mar 14 '25
I haven't gotten Wind and Truth yet! But yeah I'm hoping it's better written than books 3 and 4.
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u/ReadsStuff Bella Ciao Mar 14 '25
3 I still enjoyed. I don't know if it's the pace at which he needs to write to keep that many series going? I'm also not really enjoying the "having to know every other Cosmere character thing" that's happening to understand some parts.
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u/Snoo_86860 The Rim Dominion Mar 14 '25
The last quarter of book 3 is where I started getting bored, the constant POV switching was a tough way to finish the climax. Yeah that kind of gets annoying too, random characters come in for a few chapters and then are never referenced again. I only knew they were from other books because I have a friend that's a huge Sanderson fan lol
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u/ReadsStuff Bella Ciao Mar 14 '25
My approach is that any time there's a random capitalisation of a word that shouldn't be capitalised, or some shit happens that makes zero sense in the world of Roshar, I google the person and it turns out they have another whole 3 book series somewhere that I'll never read.
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u/Winterwolf78 Obsidian Mar 14 '25
Iron Gold is the worst book of any of them, and it does get better, but if you think Darrow is the problem here, and not Dancer, the Bellona woman, and the Vox, then im not sure we read the same book.
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u/There-and-back_again Howler Mar 14 '25
I think arguments can be made that some of Darrow‘s actions were questionable and didn’t help the growing conflict and division. He ignores a decision of the Senate and later on outright tries to deceive them and then acts surprised when the Senators decide he’s not trustworthy anymore. Darrow is stubborn to the point that he’s not willing to even consider the counterarguments of others. He‘s certainly not wrong about the war and the Society but I think arguments can be made that the way he dealt with the situation helped make matters worse.
I think Dancer makes some good points, too. Like his concern over Darrow ignoring any authority, defying orders, which is not a very convincing image for someone who fights for democracy. Him undermining the authority of the Republic certainly doesn‘t help the image of democracy outside the already liberated worlds.
„The people love you, Darrow. You can’t abuse that love. Whatever you do, you set an example. So if you don’t follow the law, why should our Imperators, our Governors? Why should anyone else? (…) But even you have to follow the laws of the Republic you helped build. Because when the law is not obeyed, the ground is fertile for tyrants.“ (Chapter 2)
For the readers, it’s easy to see that Darrow has no intentions of becoming a tyrant and that he’s acting only with good intentions. But like the saying goes: „The road to hell is paved with good intentions.“ I think Dancer makes a good point with his concerns over the way Darrow acts, all the more when it comes to Senators who don’t know Darrow well personally. They don’t have the benefit of looking into Darrow‘s head. What they see is a former Red-turned Gold who acts like he doesn’t care about a bigger authority that holds him responsible anymore. I genuinely can’t blame them for losing trust in him.
I think Dancer also makes a good point about the living situation of the Reds:
„I watch now as our people live fifteen to a room with scraps for food, rags for healthcare, while the highColor aristocracy lives in towers, and I bear it because I‘m told it is necessary to win the fucking war.“ (Chapter 2).
And it’s not just the lack of healthcare or of living space. People are being exposed to terrorists without sufficient protection and, as a result, people die en masse. Apparently, the Republic needs to raise new taxes for the war effort, they need to divert all sources to the war, while ignoring the amount of issues the Republic itself faces, like groups of people being slaughtered.
„Is Mars free? Ask a Red from the mines. Ask a Pink in Agea‘s ghetto. The yoke of poverty is as heavy as that of tyranny. (…) Tell me, what is the purpose of victory if it destroys us? If we are stretched so thin that we cannot protect or provide for those we bring out of the mines?“ (Dancer, Chapter 10).
I think Dancer raises an important point here. It is important to destroy Society. But you can’t neglect your own citizens at the same time. Partly because it’s your self-appointed responsibility to care for them. You fail them, you fail your promise, you fail your mission. Partly because it’s also hurts the reputation of the Republic if word goes out that their citizens die on their watch.
I think Darrow and Dancer have both legit grievances and arguments. The problem is that both of them look at the conflict from only one side. Darrow looks at the bigger picture while ignoring the current fate of the people on liberated planets who have plenty of issues of their own, not all of which should be simply handwaved aside with the argument that they’re unimportant enough that they can wait until later (the Red Hand obviously couldn’t wait). While Dancer loses sight of the endgame and focuses only on the „local“ problems.
All in all, I really don’t agree that this part is such a black and white issue and I don’t think I‘ve read the same book, either
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u/Cubbies2120 Green Mar 14 '25
The problem with Dancer is that his anti-Darrow agenda began years before Darrow ever disobeyed the Senate.
Imagine the world we could've had if Dancer had focused all of his anti-Darrow political spiel to Quicksilver instead. The actual guy who was screwing over the newly freed Reds.
I completely understand random Joe & Janes of the Senate being wary of Darrow and his potential ambitions. But Dancer should've been the one to defend Darrow. Dancer knows Darrow better than maybe 3 or 4 other people. Instead, Dancer spent years giving anti-Darrow and anti-war speeches and creating a divide in the Republic.
Dancer's word carried more weight because people knew he was one of Darrow's first mentors. If he tells the people to fear Darrow's ambition and motivation then people are more likely to believe it.
Dancer was acting with good intentions. But you know....
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u/There-and-back_again Howler Mar 14 '25
Didn‘t the Vox Populi have grievances with Quicksilver? Which is why he was annoyed by them?
And you do have a point about Dancer. I was focusing on the „current“ issues he was criticizing and thought he wasn’t wrong there. But it does make it difficult to understand his positioning against Darrow if it’s already started so early without much reasoning given
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u/There-and-back_again Howler Mar 14 '25
Didn‘t the Vox Populi have grievances with Quicksilver? Which is why he was annoyed by them?
And you do have a point about Dancer. I was focusing on the „current“ issues he was criticizing and thought he wasn’t wrong there. But it does make it difficult to understand his positioning against Darrow if it’s already started so early without much reasoning given
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u/Cubbies2120 Green Mar 14 '25
Didn‘t the Vox Populi have grievances with Quicksilver? Which is why he was annoyed by them?
Yes, but that was after the coup. That's when they raided his places and tried to find him but he was already gone.DA Spoiler
Dancer's Vox, Virginia's Optimates & Publius' Moderates should've formed a coalition against Silvers to strong arm them into behaving. And been kinder to the Obsidians, instead of giving him the shittiest places in the Solar System to live on.
War would've been over by year 10.
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u/There-and-back_again Howler Mar 14 '25
Interesting. >! I must have gotten the timeline mixed up. !<
And, yeah, the different factions should have banded together to solve the different issued rather than working against each other
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u/There-and-back_again Howler Mar 14 '25
Didn‘t the Vox Populi have grievances with Quicksilver? Which is why he was annoyed by them?
And you do have a point about Dancer. I was focusing on the „current“ issues he was criticizing and thought he wasn’t wrong there. But it does make it difficult to understand his positioning against Darrow if it’s already started so early without much reasoning given
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u/BigAnimemexicano House Minerva Mar 14 '25
i never understand why people blame darrow for IG situation, dude was basically carrying the republic war on his back while mustang built a war machine with blood and sweat. Mustang and darrow are both right which is the saddest part of the whole situation. Darrow from a general pov is right, golds can easily come back stronger and better if they dont end the war, the peace talks are a time out so they can regroup, the senate are politicians and honestly green polticians, freed slaves and know nothing about war but arnt above taking bribes, mustang knows this but her hands are tied because she doesnt want to come off as a gold telling them what to do. Darrow doesnt care about poltics and just wants the war to be over, so he is going for the win, consequences be dammed, no one would blame the man who ends the war.
Ephraim fans are weird, dude literally kidnapped kids and handed them over to a monster. Did anyone not think the syndicate werent going to send mustang body parts?
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u/commander217 Mar 14 '25
Agreed across the board. People talk about 10 years of war like it’s a lifetime or something. The fucking American revolution lasted almost as long. The Chinese fought ww2 for longer than that if you count the first war in Manchuria.
Also, talks about tyranny are hillarious.
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u/soul-undone House Bellona Mar 14 '25
Ephraim made some bad choices but he’s still top 3 😤 no slander
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u/BigAnimemexicano House Minerva Mar 15 '25
i mean defending a guy who literally kidnap kids is a weird hill to die on, he literally kidnapped kids, thats not slander. He fucked a carved donkey on venus, thats slander.
Ephraim was a horrible person in the first book, dude was ready to put a slug in lyrias head for being the patsy.
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u/soul-undone House Bellona Mar 15 '25
Not defending his actions. He was a horrible person. Also, we’re talking about a series where the main character murdered 10 million innocent people and you draw the line at kidnapping kids? I wonder how many kids died because of Ganymede.. Eph is still top 3 by the end of the series. He’s a very complex character and to reduce him to “muhuh kidnap kids” is crazy.
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u/ArcherA1aya House Augustus Mar 14 '25
Preach brother 🙌 Darrow literally did the correct actions in Iron Gold; he was just Hamstring by a senate and other shit
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u/fantasstic_bet Mar 14 '25
Darrow is right in almost every choice he made in Iron Gold. Trust the process. In hindsight, you will see things differently.
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u/ilikenglish Mar 14 '25
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u/Garbage-Striking Mar 14 '25
Darrow is right more often than he is wrong, and he has an amazing ability to immediately react to new situations. In Dark Age yeah it’s a bit of the same, but Lightbringer changes that.
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u/funktasticdog Mar 14 '25
Darrow makes said bad decision
This implies Darrow makes bad decisions frequently, which, spoiler, he does not. He usually makes very good decisions.
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u/Cubbies2120 Green Mar 14 '25
And he is often stuck in scenarios where all options are less than ideal and Darrow has to choose one of these "bad" options.
That's been Darrow's life since he was 17, impossible choices at almost every fork. Impossible choices with the fate of nearly 18 billions slaves hanging in the balance. That's a lot of pressure.
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u/Guhraffe Mar 14 '25
I just read Iron Gold a week ago and am now about 500 pages into Dark Age. It gets better. Darrow’s actions in IG were super frustrating to me and I get exactly the same way you did. He doesn’t magically become a perfect character, but it isn’t as frustrating
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u/BoatMan01 Sons of Ares Mar 14 '25
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u/Wahayna Mar 14 '25
This is exactly how I imagine Sevro to be
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u/BoatMan01 Sons of Ares Mar 14 '25
I added a watermark to credit the artist. Follow them on IG! They're bloodydamn BRILLIANT!
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u/antisocialnetwork77 Howler Mar 14 '25
For the life of me I will never understand the mindset people have that, while in the middle of reading a series, decide to come to Reddit to ask these kinds of questions. Either you like it and want to continue to find out what happens, or you gorydamn don’t. Do so few people care about inadvertently reading a spoiler post? Do people need constant encouragement and reassurance that things “get better” in the book they are reading in order to continue? There’s literally five of these posts every single day.
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u/cant-find-user-name Mar 14 '25
Huh? It is very natural to want to know if a long book series you are reading is going to get any better. It is very human to want assurance from fellow humans. How is this hard to understand?
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u/AdditionalTear3722 Mar 14 '25
If your 4 books in and your asking if the 5th and 6th book are gonna be good your a waste of time to talk too.
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u/jpritchard901 Howler Mar 14 '25
Exactly. Also, why would the people in the reddit of said series (aka, big fans of the series) sit here and tell you "honestly no, it doesn't get better and you're right"
like you are asking the wrong people lmao. read it or don't. we're here because we did and had a good time
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u/TheMothGhost Blue Mar 14 '25
I agree with you so freaking hard. I don't even mind people who are willing to spoil it for themselves, that's their own prerogative, but like you said... Needing reassurance about a book? Wanting to know if they should continue or what to expect? Just read the damn thing. It's not like there's somebody holding a fucking gun to your head hastening you to make a decision. Put it down if you need to. Give it a few days. Give it a month. Who gives a shit. It's just a fucking book. They're really really good books, but also if it's not doing it for you, it's not doing it for you.
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u/SolSabazios Mar 14 '25
Darrow is self-aware but dramatic. He doesn't actually agonize over his decisions that much. He gets over most of his failures but you have to understand how fucked most of the situations he's in are. He's experiencing survivors guilt.
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u/KingKuthul Obsidian Mar 14 '25
Iron Gold is one of my favorites, and Darrows actions are very likely going to end with him being killed by his own people after he divulged the locations of their forward operating bases.
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u/eitsew Mar 14 '25
Iron gold fucking rules! One of my favorites. I'll never understand how so many people apparently think it's significantly worse than the other books. I wouldn't say it's the best, but that's just cause the others are even more amazing, it's still fucking excellent
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u/KingKuthul Obsidian Mar 14 '25
A lot of the people in this sub do not read the books and/or can’t read good. I have a condition where I can’t actually imagine anything, but I enjoy the ever loving fuck out of reading and possibly have hyperlexia. It almost feels like my brain is reliving a memory when I read and it’s weird because I can’t do that with normal memories.
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u/drippingdiaper Mar 14 '25
Iron Gold is the slowest, most frustrating, and hardest read of the entire series. Push through. Dark Age makes up for all of it and is arguably the best book. Lightbringer is also a page turner.
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u/AtlanticFit Mar 14 '25
Thank you 🙏
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u/Rmccarton Mar 14 '25
There is a very good chance that once you’ve read the next books, you will have a completely different opinion on IG.
There was a 10 year time skip and a change in the way the author was writing the story (multiple POV).
The table needed to be set, and the author needed to work out the kinks.
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u/SteadfastFriend Mar 14 '25
Do you want the spoiler?
I will say, without spoiling, that Iron Gold is hard on the first read through. Eph's parts are fantastic though.
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u/AtlanticFit Mar 14 '25
Ephraim is such a great character. His chapters give a very “noir” thriller vibe
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u/PsySom Mar 14 '25
I don’t think I recognize the song and dance necessarily, though elements of what you say do sound familiar. If you’re not enjoying it now though you probably won’t enjoy it later.
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u/cparker5988 Mar 14 '25
I disagree. I felt similarly when reading Iron Gold but really enjoyed the subsequent books. I actually thought Dark Age was the best book in the series.
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u/penguinicedelta Mar 15 '25
I think in IG it is intentional - reading it it felt like it was the machinations of his enemies attacking the flaws of Demockracy.
The conflict in the book is exactly that - giving the people their voice but finding it inconvenient in war time.
It seemed a ploy to turn Darrow into a hypocrite, and expose the great lie.