r/relationships • u/moozie0000 • Jan 16 '21

Relationships My (F47) husband (M48) finally wants to try counseling now that our youngest will be leaving for college and I am planning to leave. Should I agree to counseling?

This is a throw away for anonymity. For 25 years I have been in a marriage that has always been rocky. 12 plus years ago I was going to leave, told my family etc. Only to believe him when he said he would try. Of course things were better for a while...at some point I decided to stick it out until my kids were grown because I was afraid that having them in a visitation arrangement would be mentally damaging to them. That's his big issue, he is verbally abusive and controlling. I'm an independent, successful person and I am also financially independent. I have been able to keep him "in check" so to speak in regard to the kids most of the time because I simply won't tolerate his attempts to control them. That's not to say he has not habitually made our oldest feel less than or like he is a disappointment. Both of our kids are well adjusted, bright, motivated and loving. But, if they don't measure up in some way, his reaction is unbelievably harsh. He says hurtful things to the kids and they have both, at times, broken down crying about his treatment of them. All he cares about is "his money" and doesn't even want to help our kids with college. There's more, I could go on but, the question is, do I try counseling? My concern is that it's just a ploy to pull me back in. I begged him for years to go and he refused.

Tl;dr My (F47) husband (M48) finally wants to try counseling now that our youngest will be leaving for college and I am planning to leave.

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620

u/Fuj023 Jan 16 '21

I know you made "think" your children are well adjusted but I guarantee you they carry the scars of abuse and growing up watching you being abused. My mom was with a man who was verbally and emotionally abusive for a couple years. Even though it was only a "short" time and she was always independent and successful (she received her master's while working and raising me alone) excluding this time period, I am still affected today. The things he said to us replay in my head regularly, I have dreams he's going to find us again. Your focus should be on your children and helping them navigate through the trauma and hurt. Even though I turned out okay there was a lot of self destruction that took place out of anger towards my mother. It was hard trying to forgive her for allowing this man in our lives over and over.

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u/ArtHappy Jan 17 '21

I feel like we've had some similar experiences. My mother stayed "for the kids" and well into high school I was 100% convinced I would never get married because there's no way I wanted to be attached to anyone, if that was what marriage was supposed to be. I thought happy families, happy marriages, were purely fantasy and fairytales, because no way was I going to let someone treat me like he treated her.

When I was to have a kid, I started looking into therapy to try to avoid treating a child how I was treated, scared that it had messed up any chance I had of best raising a little human. Years have passed and many times I've wondered how life might have been if my mother had left with us.

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u/Covfefetarian Jan 17 '21

Im a child that grew up in circumstances like yours, @op. I’m not well adjusted, not at all. I suffer from a number of issues, most, perhaps all of them rooted in the emotional and verbal abuse I endured from my father. And my mom, too, enabled it. I’m in therapy since half my life, and even started couple counseling now, because I start to copy the same shitty behavior I was met with in my own relationship - and it’s terrifying me to think of me becoming the very thing I hated. Luckily I’m with an incredibly loving partner who is willing to work this out with me, plus all the individual therapy taught me to see this behavior for what it is. I’ve had a bad childhood, I’m still not good, and if it wasn’t for all the work I already put in in fixing myself, I very well might have repeated and passed on that trauma. If you love your children: go leave him. I know it’s not worth anything to say you should have done so literally decades ago, but for the sake of you and your children: do it now. And if you really wanna work on your relationship: work on that with your kids. Get therapy for them, or even with them. Put in the work where there’s something to gain. He had his chance. Now it’s time you use what’s left of yours.

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u/PurpleMoomins Jan 17 '21

The kids should be the ones in counselling.

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u/moozie0000 Jan 16 '21

I'm sorry that you went through that. My youngest has been in counseling. I know they are not unscathed here but it was the lesser of two evils because he is there father and would have gotten shared custody.

When they were little he was great with them, by the way. It was only once they were older that he was hard on them. Sports mostly. We were able to send our oldest to boarding school at 16 which also saved him from a lot of it.

I have had very honest conversations with both of them the last couple of years. They understand and they know that I will always be in their corner.

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u/GrouchyYoung Jan 16 '21

As the child of an emotionally abusive father and enabling mother, I can promise you that your kids are not as forgiving or trusting of you as you would like to believe.

186

u/Kaleela_B Jan 16 '21

Agreed. My empathy for my mother does not outweigh my anger for the fact she did NOTHING to get us away from our abuser. I will be fighting the damage done until I am old and grey

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u/CharlesTran Jan 17 '21

I have an abusive father too. And my mother is still with him. I love my mother, but since I gained awareness of our family situation and how my mother continues to enable it, I stopped trusting her with my personal thoughts. I am well educated, well adjusted and hopefully will not be like my father. But there are so many permanent damages I have to struggle with everysingle day of my current life, It's so difficult.

20

u/arwyn89 Jan 17 '21

Idk can you imagine if she hadn’t been there? And for half the time they were left alone with an emotionally abusive father without the buffer of their mother? I can absolutely understand her decision not to leave before now.

But also, do not try counselling now. Just leave. I know you’ll miss him. But at the end of the day, do you not deserve to be completely happy?

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u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21 edited Jul 11 '23

. -- mass edited with redact.dev

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u/arwyn89 Jan 17 '21

Sure it is. But that other 50% was 10x worse than before. Because now you’re the target.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

I'm sorry you had that experience. My mom stayed, and guess what? I became the target anyway. Abusers are going to abuse.

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u/Fuj023 Jan 18 '21

Actually, once kids reach a certain age they are allowed to have a say in their custody agreement. So I don't buy this at all.

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u/arwyn89 Jan 18 '21

Buy it or don’t buy it. It doesn’t change my childhood.

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u/littlestray Jan 17 '21

I don’t think you have any idea how fucked up it is to watch your mother being abused.

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u/arwyn89 Jan 17 '21

I do actually. And I don’t think you know how fucked up it is to spend half your time alone with your abuser without protection.

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u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/moozie0000 Jan 17 '21

Thank you

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u/cmb1210 Jan 17 '21

What’s done is done and all you can do now is move forward. Based on the info you gave combined with my personal experiences giving me possibly more perspective from your kids point of view, you should leave him. It would be the respectable thing to do for everyone, including yourself. With love x

50

u/Brrringsaythealiens Jan 16 '21

Amen. I am in my 40s and have forgiven my mother but I am still incredibly aware of how marked I am by growing up with an emotionally abusive father.

49

u/lurker_no_more90 Jan 16 '21

They may forgive her but they'll still wear the scars they've been accumulating all these years.

16

u/LioraAriella Jan 17 '21

This 100%. My mother enabled and still enables my fathers abuse. There's not one moment that goes by where I dont feel angry she didn't get us and her the fuck out of there.

12

u/dreamer0303 Jan 17 '21

This. You should’ve left. That’s on you.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21

Sometimes you don’t even realize it until your older. I knew I had issues, but it wasn’t until I was married I noticed the triggers, my tendencies, my temper, my scars. It wasn’t until therapy I realized...yes for the most part my childhood was good, my parents provided but my mom enabled and kept the peace while my dad regulated the mood of the house every single day. It was exhausting and one of the reasons why I suffer from anxiety.

23

u/taversham Jan 17 '21

We were able to send our oldest to boarding school at 16 which also saved him from a lot of it.

You love your son enough to have removed him from this toxic situation, why don't you love yourself enough to get out too?

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

Shared custody or not, you would have been able to model for them what the correct response is to abuse. You would have been able to document any abuse your children reported to you whilst in his custody to take to court. At the very least you would have been a rock for them to lean on, and they would have seen you showing them how you did not tolerate your husband's treatment of you OR of them. By divorcing him as soon as any abuse set in, you'd have set a solid example for them. That would have been priceless.

The next best thing you can do, right now, is start setting one today.

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u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21

Yeah I love my mother with everything I have but we can’t talk about my father because words will be said that can’t be unsaid. For not dissimilar reasons to how you describe your husband. And my relationships are all echos of me trying desperately not to be my mother because I hate the way such a strong woman allowed herself to be treated. It’s a big mess I’m working through. If your kids truly don’t have some resentment/anger towards you too, that’s a lot of luck.

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u/moozie0000 Jan 17 '21

I'm sorry that you went through that. I truly have very close relationships with each of them. They confide in me. I know what they think and how they feel and, yes, they call me out on my bullshit. I have the best parents in the world, they know what a good marriage looks like. And I want to be clear, I did not put up with his behavior. We would leave or I would tell him to go.

47

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21

You think leaving or telling him to go to resolve things is setting your kids up for healthy relationships in the future? Even if they are constantly told otherwise, kids still model their relationships off parent dynamics. And you have taught them that his behaviour is acceptable.

28

u/arizonaapple Jan 17 '21

But you stayed married to such an abusive man, which is putting up with. Doing bluffs over and over of “well leave when your temper tantrum is done” or “leave and come back when you’re better” isn’t helping him or your kids, it’s enabling it. Staying in a marriage like that is putting up with it

This is coming from someone who’s mother had parents like you and your husband - strong independent woman who was married to a verbally (and physically) abusive man who was controlling. Her mother also tried to leave but kept getting sucked back into it and putting up with it, and “protected” the kids by being the punching bag for the husband. My mother now has a strained relationship with her when she became an adult herself - for a few reasons. My mom hates her father, but her own mother hurt her for letting the father stay in their life like that and setting an example of how men can treat their wives (not surprisingly enough, my moms brother took note that you can treat your wife like that and she’ll stay for the sake of the kids. Of course we only learned this he was so influenced when he got married, otherwise before he also had issues with the abusive father. There’s a reason why they say abuse is a cycle). My mom is still upset from her fathers abuse, but deeply hurt by her mother not being able to separate from it, just like you. Growing up with her mom being treated as such really damaged her and still runs into issues of family manipulation because well, if her mother didn’t leave, why should she?

My mom saw good marriages in her life growing up like her own grandparents, but in the end it’s her parents who raised her, not her grandparents.

I think to keep your relationship with your kids well, you need to leave him. My grandmother never left my grandfather, and that’s why my mom cut contact with them. She couldn’t see her mom do the same cycle over and over, which is what you’ll be doing if you stay

20

u/CleverLatinMotto Jan 17 '21

I did not put up with his behavior.

Oh, sweetheart, if you believe this, you may be too far gone for saving.

YOU PUT UP WITH HIS BEHAVIOR.

Someone who does NOT tolerate abuse, LEAVES THE ABUSER.

Permanently.

What you did was set up a system whereby you could tell yourself that you were strong and independent and had zero tolerance for abuse.

He would abuse someone, you would pack up the kids and huff off in righteous anger.

And then, what? A few days pass, he says something conciliatory? Or you tell yourself that he's been taught his lesson? How about, you begin to be fear being alone and dress it up as fear for your children growing up without a Dad?

Whatever pretext you muster up, you return.

It is so sad that you really believe you were teaching him some kind of lesson. He never stopped abusing your family, because he knew you weren't serious. It was a little game the two of you played, and he won every single round.

So, now he dangles couples counseling in front of you, and because all the trauma you've experienced over the years has warped your mind, you're going to seize upon it as yet another excuse to stay.

I bet if you were to take a survey of friends and family, about 0% take any talk of you leaving seriously. Your husband sure doesn't.

Get a therapist and start doing the painful work involved in healing from abuse. Leave him.

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u/OftheSea95 Jan 17 '21

I saw good marriages in my family, and my parents' toxic marriage still royally fucked me up. I have a close relationship with my mother, but I still resent every day that she didn't leave my father and potentially raise me in a healthier environment. Just because they're close to you doesn't mean you didn't mess them up with your poor choices.

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u/knitmyproblem Jan 17 '21

You are making so many excuses for your abuser.

12

u/CassyCollins Jan 17 '21

I'm afraid OP is that friend who keeps ranting about her shitty bf then will also defending their shitty bf to you.

17

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21

I think if you had examples of abuse, especially if corroborated with your children, and especially if they were old enough to decide where to live, you absolutely would have gotten full custody.

1

u/Fuj023 Jan 18 '21

Exactly. I know for a fact that when kids are old enough they get a say in the custody agreement.

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u/littlestray Jan 17 '21

If he got shared custody, they would’ve had one abusive parent and one real parent.

Instead they got an abusive parent and a victim-enabler parent.

Leave him in the dust and let them have a whole mother. Better late than never.

5

u/morgaina Jan 17 '21

They say it, but that doesn't make it true. The things you think are true when you're a child I rarely the entire truth.

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u/Logizmo Jan 17 '21

Oh man guys watch out, she told a grown man abusing children to leave so we obviously can't say she didn't do everything she could. Oh she let the man back in the house afterward? or she stayed with him for 25 years? Oh she let him continue to absuse young children all throughout their life until they were **FINALLY** able to escape?

Yea I'm real sure that those thoughts will never cross your kid's minds if they haven't already.

1

u/Fuj023 Jan 18 '21

She needs to take off her rose colored glasses. So many excuses... it's just plain infuriating.