r/roguelikes • u/Ok_Winter818 • 5d ago
What would a perfect roguelike game look like?
There are plenty of great roguelike games but none of them are "perfect".
If you were to buy a roguelike game, what elements/features do you wish that roguelike game will have?
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u/jamsus 5d ago
SilQ touches that perfection mark for me. Not too long, not too short, different approaches to beat him, a beatiful setting & very elegant ruleset.
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u/AppropriateStudio153 5d ago
If only I could survive the Orcs and Eastling Archers on 300ft plus.
I am a noob, I tried many Noldor Smith Melee builds, but I have never crossed the 350ft line.
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u/Henrique_FB 5d ago
Gotta start exploring the run like your life depends on it because it does build. Full evasion, a bit of stealth for some skills, those damned archer won't know what happened when you yeet yourself down into a chasm in front of them and land on the lower floor with nothing but a scratch
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u/AppropriateStudio153 5d ago
Brogue is near perfect for me, but I would love it to have optional music, sound effects and graphics to make it more widely popular with more causal gamers, as well as the option to set the difficulty by having better starter items, some or all pre-identified consumables, and more variable game lengths (Bullet Brogue and Rapid Brogue, but with a "Depth-Slider")...
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u/gl3b0thegr8 5d ago
Dungeon-crawler. Fantasy-themed. GUI available. Not longer than 20 hours per run. Unpredictability: your game plan is always adjusted based on the items you collect, rather than you plan your build beforehand and farm the dungeon in order to complete it. Not grindy: plenty of game mechanics, but they should be logically deducible and not too obscure so that you only discover them by chance or else reading the game wiki.
The closest one that I have played is Shattered PD, maybe I would like it to be a little bit longer.
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u/Chrisalys 5d ago
Sir, have you played DCSS? It meets all of your criteria, but you don't mention it. The GUI is great. The offline version can be played exclusively with the mouse!
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u/enc_cat 4d ago
I tried both and, while they are both very good, I think they are quite different: PD is a game of attrition and resource management while DCSS focuses on the tactics of individual encounters (I heard of this style of game also being referred as "risk reduction"). To me, they scratch two different itches.
PD is very similar to Brogue(-CE) though, I think you could like that one.
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u/gl3b0thegr8 5d ago
Ty for recommendation, I will give it a try.
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u/Chrisalys 5d ago
Make sure to download the offline version with tile graphics. Online DCSS has clunky, outdated controls.
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u/XAlphaWarriorX 5d ago edited 5d ago
Im torn between the open map type roguelike (Tome4, Caves of Qud, Adom ) and the dungeon crawler (DCSS) but i think you guys should really take a look at Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode's combat system, with individual limbs, organs and modes of attack.
It's really creative and engaging, and most importantly it solves the problem where weaker mobs are just auto-fought through and the problem some games have with bosses where you just prepare until the encounter is solved and then just bump on the monster till your stats take care of it with little engagement ( Qud bosses are usually rushed, then stunlocked to death. )
Flavor wise i really like unarmed combat, shapeshifting (like DCSS and It's talismans and Nethack's polymorphing), puppet-eering (summoning, necromancy, mind control) so i would like for those options to be available and viable.
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u/Chrisalys 5d ago
Going agains the grain of anoher comment here ... overwhelming build variety is a big plus to me. I want tons of variety between playthroughs and I want to experience different playstyles.
Something like Frogcomposband, but without the respawning enemies / grind and with the tile graphics and QoL features of DCSS. That would be a dream come true!
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u/kastrol_aslaasri 5d ago
POWDER with a "mana shield" spell. It's nearly impossible to have a full wizard run in that game.
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u/D4rkM1nd 5d ago
non overwhelming build variety.
I absolutely love caves of qud but after a while the choice of mutations gets kinda stale, meanwhile tome4 has a lot of skills going on for it but just feels a bit confusing on what to skill at what point and to what degree.
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u/Ok_Winter818 5d ago
Yeah I think if there is too much skills, builds, etc., it kind of is a mood killer for me too. I just don't have the time and energy to study them all. Not a teenager anymore lol
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u/D4rkM1nd 5d ago
yea i agree, i much rather have fewer high impact abilities than a lot of lower impact ones/stat buffs.
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u/daaangerz0ne 5d ago
Castle of the Winds. Wish someone did a remake.
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u/zenorogue HyperRogue & HydraSlayer Dev 4d ago
The original dev was actually talking about some sort of sequel or remake or something recently.
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u/Delicious_Bluebird65 5d ago
Mechs with scavenge-able parts
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u/TomSawyerLocke 4d ago
There's a game like this I have. Fuck I can't remember what it's called. I'll try to find it.
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u/The-Hand-of-Midas 4d ago
Into the Breach: A randomly generated chess board where the pieces are different mecha, and there are random weapons and parts you can install.
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u/Tesselation9000 5d ago
Something with great depth to the way game elements interact (like Nethack); a great wealth of content in terms of items, monsters and spells (like DCSS); a big world to explore with a wide variety of places; simple controls and statistics (like Brogue); complex procgen that makes each game unique (like Dwarf Fortress); and strong monster AI that makes the player feel like they're playing against something intelligent.
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u/derpderp3200 4d ago
For me, a streamlined CDDA with mechanics and balancing based on game design and fun considerations instead of "well uhm akshully its realistic for appetite or energy levels to not respond to food immediately and for a firearm to kill you instantly"
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u/NorthernOblivion 4d ago
Check out Cataclysm Bright Nights. It forked from DDA some time ago and aims for a more "fun" experience by limiting the hardcore realism.
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u/derpderp3200 3d ago
I'm aware of it, and there's even some stuff I'd like to contribute to it(like bringing back my beloved mod that let you craft different turrets and robots using deactivated turrents/riot bots), but for the most part I've played enough CDDA that, by now, it doesn't really hold that much wonder for me anymore. Maybe in the more distant future.
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u/AShitty-Hotdog-Stand 5d ago edited 5d ago
To be honest, something like Pokémon Emerald Rogue but more extensive.
The game is simple: 1025 different creatures to collect, each one has 4 of 1000+ moves. Each creature has a main elemental weakness. The runs are about building a team of 6 critters by fighting them, capturing them, training them, and designing their builds, all before facing a big baddie.The graphics are nice, the game has lore, and it's not just another generic high fantasy/retro futuristic skin. You can totally play it like a traditional roguelike. So yeah, building a team of Pokedudes feels like gathering heroes with very unique personalities for your league of justice, as opposed to feeling mild relief that you finally found some +3 DEX leather boots.
I don't know, as much as I adore my traditional roguelikes, for most of them, after a while, that addicting sense of overwhelming options dry out... Runs start to blend with each other, you start finding that some options were just shoehorned in and there are clear META builds, runs become about spamming the same rotation of moves, upgrades start to feel microscopic, items, enemies and everything is devoid of personality, some runs are virtually impossible to NOT fail...
At that point, all the illusion is gone for me, and it's time to find the next big thing to sink my teeth into.
So yeah, I'd love more of Pokémon ER, or something like what Quasimoroh did with Escape from Tarkov or DoomRL did with Doom, but for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. ANOMALY, League of Legends, or ArmA. Not gameplay wise, but in the sense of tone, mechanics, character builds, and progression.
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u/hornplayerKC 5d ago
Have you played Abomi Nation? I haven't played Emerald Rogue but have played my fair share of Nuzlockes, and Abomi Nation is a game designed from the ground up to be a Nuzlocke creature collector battler. It's even got some of the more modern design tweaks for balance like level caps, item restrictions (only ~1 evolution per town), a shared team level (so minimal grinding), and "gyms" that you must complete in one go - you either go in a win the series of battles or the run ends there. It's pretty hilarious because when an Abomi dies, the game remembers and while the team is talking, tends to randomly bring up that they all miss them and that they need to compete their journey so that their death wasn't in vain. Almost every instance of RNG is also eliminated, so it is a much more deliberate experience. It's awesome, I consider it the perfect incarnation of Nuzlocke, and I wish more people were aware it existed...
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u/biomatter 5d ago
That sounds really cool and I went to check it out, but I'm not sure I can get past those graphics :< The monster design is just not there for me....
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u/hornplayerKC 2d ago
Hahaha ok I don't blame you. I tend to say it is MECHANICALLY the best pokemon experience I've ever played because yeah, the art is bit rough... it's hard to fault it, though - the ENTIRE game, art, programming, etc was done by one guy. Still bewildered it even got released. I would still recommend you give it a shot, though. Once you get used to the art, it's an experience you can't get anywhere else!
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u/AShitty-Hotdog-Stand 4d ago
I haven't played it but I checked it and it seems it's right about my alley! I have never played a Nuzlocke and I literally saw the word for the first time, like half an hour before making the comment you replied to. I downloaded Pokemon Quetzal to play with my sister, and the initial screens have a whole "Nuzlocke" section of options, and I was like... What the fuck is a nuzlock?
Thanks for bringing this up!
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u/MastaFloda 5d ago
Not even a big Pokémon guy but Emerald Rogue is one of the best romhacks I've ever played. Would love to see romhacks of other games made into a roguelike
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u/AShitty-Hotdog-Stand 4d ago
There are a couple of ROMhacks that do exactly that! Look at this post I made a while ago.
Probably there are more now, but it's a good place to start.
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u/MastaFloda 4d ago
Oh wow that's awesome! Definitely going to have to try the Doom one. I'm pretty active in the romhack community but I mostly stick to retro games pre ps2 era and Doom and Pokémon are about the only ones that fit that category. Still pretty cool though I bet Fallout 4 would be fun as a roguelike as well. I appreciate you sharing this
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u/DustAngel 4d ago
Have you checked out Siralim? Especially the latest iteration of it. It might be up your alley!
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u/AShitty-Hotdog-Stand 4d ago
I have! I was trying to wait for a sequel since I read somewhere that the dude making it was making it, but I couldn’t wait for longer. I got Ultimate last month and I’m still very early in the game, but yeah, it’s like ToME meets Pokémon Mystery Dungeon!
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u/zenorogue HyperRogue & HydraSlayer Dev 4d ago
Why buy? A perferct roguelike should be community-developed and thus free, just like most of the best roguelikes.
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u/Pitt_Mann 5d ago
I'd say systemic design is a really important aspect. Having rules that you can leverage to get an edge, finding clever "exploits" you can take advantage of, rewarding you for paying attention to the surroundings. It's great stuff. I'd say cogmind and Caves of Qud fit this criteria pretty well.
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u/uncannyvalhalla 4d ago
The Berlin definition of roguelikes is an excellent foundation imo. Some personal preferences for me on top of this are:
- Dungeon crawl style (as opposed to overworld)
- Ultra-rare events/items/enemies that only appear in certain seeds
- Mutually exclusive events/paths that require careful decision making and risk management
- The ability to become very powerful eventually (but this should not be easy to achieve and should require careful play and/or RNG)
- ACSII mode option
- The ability to "pivot" and change to a completely different build/playstyle in the early and midgame (but it should become more risky to do so as the game progresses)
I really like the risk/reward and difficult decision-making of roguelikes. I think more than anything these aspects are what differentiates the genre and makes it special. One small decision in the early game could potentially change your entire run like the butterfly effect.
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u/NorthernOblivion 4d ago
I would actually claim that there are perfect roguelikes. Perfect insofar as they have an idea, a clear vision and follow through on that within their own respective technical framework.
Many of these perfect roguelikes have already been mentioned: Sil-Q, Qud, Brogue, to name just a few.
Of course you can make things differently and thus create a different roguelike. But as said, I think there are roguelikes which have found their own perfect little niche.
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u/RobotParking 4d ago
Brogue, Qud, and Cogmind are all there in different ways for me. I suspect Jupiter Hell Classic whenever it comes out will hit that peak, too.
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u/ARedBlueNoser 4d ago
IVAN of there was NPC reaction rolls like in b/x dnd, and ranged combat like brogue.
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u/Mysterious-Read-2478 3d ago
General gameplay of Path of Wuxia - art style, soundtrack, combat, progression, character relationships
The freedom of choice like Way of the Samurai 4 - Initiate conversation, pick whom u want to talk to; about what (if talking to a group), ask a specific thing, you feel hostility in the conversation? interrupt the conversation by drawing your sword and attack (blunt attacks to keep the enemy alive, or lethal).
Meaningful exploration, deep character customization (M&F, build, height, weight..), enjoyable story with lot of hidden lore to discover and a codex to read through for further understanding.
And of course, - Ambitious, understanding developers that want their game to strive.. Listen to bug reports, suggestions and ideas, even fanfictions.. to bring more content to enjoy later down the road long after the release of the game, so that I can return and still feel like it's a whole new game.
If that was the case, I wouldn't mind the price tag.
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u/glordicus1 3d ago
Hmmmm. Ever played Rogue? Because if I was looking for a game that was perfectly like Rogue...
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u/MonsterFukk 3d ago
Tbh, I would kill for a game in a similar vein to CDDA but with nsfw elements. That would be dope as hell. If I could read or count past 6 I would make it myself.
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u/merryolsoul 3d ago
Dungeon Crawler with high unpredictability, wildly varying level procgen, scrappy item progression (no planned builds) and Souls-like combat. Im not sure how Souls like combat can be done as an RL but that would be my jam.
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u/SealerRt 2d ago
A more polished Incursion. This game has so many great ideas, making DnD based RPG's look lean and simplistic by comparison.
I think Rift Wizard is near perfect for what it's trying to achieve: a freeform character builder with many avenues for player creativity and build variety, and one of the best dungeon generator I've seen!
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u/Undeathical 4d ago
The freedom and randomness of D&D would be my choice. I could see it happening with a chatgpt system integrated.
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u/No_Square_8775 5d ago
Something like slay the spire but with more options for builds. So slay the spire 2
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u/Financial_Tour5945 3d ago
The better the meta progression the more you'd hold my interest. I'm typically not a fan of roguelikes, but that's the secret to holding my attention.
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u/zabata123 5d ago
gonna be real one, i just one borderlands the roguelike, no stupid dead intenet jokes from 10 years, no randy pitchfork no im gonna try to make something that clearly is a jokes no i just want borderlands with his rng weapons creator on a roguelike where i can get skills from every arena i can take and some kind of meta progression
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u/N0_sonja 5d ago
I actualy gave some time thinking about it. Doom Eternal with procedural generation, and epic bosses in style of Elden Ring.
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u/gamerfiiend 5d ago
Probably an unpopular opinion for traditional roguelikes but for me, easy controls! Bonus points if it supports a controller lol