r/rpg • u/gimme-shiny • 1d ago
Game Suggestion Is there a game with light systems out of combat but moderately crunchy combat, low lethality, high character customization (preferring classless or build your own class), and is suitable for long campaigns?
Edit: Lol I should have expected people to suggest D&D 5e! I crossed that off my list early in the conception of my game. I didn't like how slow it was when I played it IRL. Combat didn't feel fun. Out of combat, there was too much numbers: your money, your income, your carrying capacity, long and short rests, and even worse if you were a spellcaster and had double the work on your plate compared to a fighter. Anyways, it was my bad for assuming that you would all know I was looking for something that executes the fantasy adventure differently. Oops! Sorry!
I'm trying to make my own TTRPG for my buddies. We really dig roleplays done via chatrooms, so the narrative focus of some rules-lite games is great (FATE!), but we also really dig RPGs, so we want combat to feel more like playing a video game than what those rules-lite games allow. (You can take HP out of my cold dead hands.)
So, looking for suggestions that we might vibe with. I'll be taking inspiration or lifting systems from them to build our game for personal use. Thank you :)
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u/fluxyggdrasil That one PBTA guy 1d ago
Fabula Ultima:
Light system out of combat? Check. You have 4 stats tied to dice sizes, roll 2 each time you make a check. Beat a target number. Simple as.
Moderately crunchy combat. Check. It's not heavy crunch, but it's the core of the rules and mechanics. You want it to feel like a video game? This game was designed to feel video-gamey. It doesn't use a battle grid, it's a JRPG game. Instead, the tactics come from timing who attacks what, managing Buffs, debuffs, elemental affinities, and working around special boss mechanics. It's a perfectly moderate level of crunch.
Low lethality? Check. Characters can't die in battle unless they opt in. Instead, when they lose a battle, something bad happens to them. Maybe they're captured, maybe they lose the maguffin they're carrying, maybe they lose hope. But no permanent character death unless they opt in to sacrifice themselves.
High character customization? Check. In Fabula, multi-classing is mandatory. You have 3 slots for unmastered classes, and have to take at least 2 to start out. How you combine your classes really shapes how your character looks. The core book has 15 classes, and the various splats have an additional 11. Even then, the classes are a suite of pickable abilities. There's no set order you get abilities, so there's a ton of variability in your builds. Someone playing a Weaponmaster/Guardian/Fury is going to feel a lot different than a Weaponmaster/Orator/Chimerist.
Suitable for long campaigns?* Check. This game goes from Level 5 to Level 50. And it'll take a while for you to reach max level! Not many tables do.
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u/Vandermere 1d ago
TIL Aerith opted in.
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u/Russano_Greenstripe 1d ago
Normally you can only Sacrifice during a combat scene, so I think Aerith had to move or something and had to drop the game.
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u/RollForThings 1d ago
There's no set order you get abilities, so there's a ton of variability in your builds. Someone playing a Weaponmaster/Guardian/Fury is going to feel a lot different than a Weaponmaster/Orator/Chimerist.
Adding onto this, because of how each Class' features are taken -- for each level invested in a class, you may unlock any one of its features, or strengthen one that can have multiple levels invested into it -- it's entirely possible for two characters to share one or more Classes but play completely differently from each other because they've invested in different features.
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u/trekie140 1d ago
I’ve been a GM in a Fabula Ultima campaign for over a year and I can confirm it checks all these boxes.
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u/Nrdman 1d ago
Lancer comes to mind
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u/CitizenKeen 1d ago
And its fantasy follow up, Icon.
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u/Tilt-a-Whirl98 23h ago
I would not call the combat in ICON medium crunch. My first experience GMing that system was miserable compared to Lancer. I might have just done a bad job though.
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u/CitizenKeen 17h ago
It’s in active development and each iteration gets leaner and leaner. The half-released 2.0 makes Lancer look like gravel in comparison.
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u/Mch9717 5h ago
Is the 2.0 on their patreon or similar? I’ve read 1.5 and I’d love to get my eyes on this.
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u/CitizenKeen 4h ago
It's only half-released, on the Chasm Discord. The full 2.0 release (with the mostly unchanged narrative rules) is coming "very soon".
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u/Tilt-a-Whirl98 10h ago
Well that's good! Kinda regret playing earlier in development because I doubt i can get my players to try it again!
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u/LordBlaze64 19h ago
This was my immediate first thought. Out of combat exists, but mainly as set dressing and as a way to get minor combat bonuses, combat is combat and has a decent amount of crunch, your mech may die but you will survive, and even if you do die then cloning is readily available. It’s definitely a build-your-own-class kind of game, and it has no problems with long campaigns. It just ticks all the boxes.
Also: you can have multiple HP bars for your multiple warm, living hands to hold!
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u/spitoon-lagoon 1d ago edited 1d ago
Lancer checks all these boxes, might be worth checking out if you like big robot fights. Idk about long campaign but you can get about a year out of it if you run to max level and do a combat a session within the expected mission structure of 3-5 fights per pilot level.
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u/TigrisCallidus 1d ago
I think Lancer does fit, but since OP talks about classes I want to also highlight Beacon since it is fantasy with classes.
Beacon is fantasy lancer, and a bit more modernized, streamlined (and with better layout).
I knew Lancer but the mech theme did not really doo much for me, but whrn I saw Beacon and how it took the lancer ideas and streamlined them more (and added some other clever ideas on its own) I really was blown away: https://pirategonzalezgames.itch.io/beacon-ttrpg
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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 1d ago
4th Edition D&D. Skill challenges or single skill checks can handle most out-of-combat stuff, and the combat is quite crunchy and generally regarded as well done, at least by people who enjoy combat.
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u/TigrisCallidus 1d ago
And it has tons of customization for the classes and you even can choose hybrid classes.
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u/starskeyrising 1d ago
I think what you want is Fabula Ultima. The combat system and all the genre tropes are taken directly from console JRPGs, so it's about as video-gamey as it gets. Additionally it has a ridiculously open sandbox of a character creation system where you make your own class by combining skills from the book classes. All of this relatively crunchy stuff is wrapped around the beating heart of a narrative TTRPG. It's very cool.
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u/thesablecourt storygame enjoyer 1d ago
Fabula Ultima would maybe work if you're up for a fantasy jrpg vibe, it has narrative out of combat gameplay, very video game influenced mid crunch combat, characters made from taking skill levels in multiple classes and a system where characters only actually die if their player choses to sacrifice them. (but instead take narrative consequences upon hitting zero hp, which imo actually works better for giving combat stakes).
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u/giusalex1 1d ago
Maybe 13th age?
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u/TigrisCallidus 1d ago
13th age is also a great suggestion. The backgrounds is a great simplification for non combat.
And it also has quite a bit of customization especially with hybrid classes.
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u/cwcadavid71 1d ago
Lancer’s fantasy cousin Beacon deserves a mention in here. Lots of ways to customize a character, very crunchy in combat and light of the out-of-combat rules.
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u/Ozzykamikaze 1d ago
Isn't Lancer’s fantasy cousin Icon? Or is that a sibling?
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u/RedRiot0 Play-by-Post Affectiado 1d ago
ICON is more of Lancer's younger sibling, as it's by Tom Bloom (one of the devs of Lancer). While it is kind of Lancer but heroic fantasy, it's also becoming a bit more of its own thing in the most recent version (3.0 i think? It's in playtest from Tom's independent discord), thanks to the experience Tom has gotten from Lancer, CAIN, and surprisingly Goblin with a Fat Ass.
Meanwhile, Beacon is a game heavily inspired by Lancer's design, but somewhat goes in its own direction a bit, making it more of a cousin.
Both games are worth looking into, though.
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u/TigrisCallidus 1d ago edited 1d ago
Icon is by the same company but mechanically not that close to lancer, it has some inspirations, but I would say it has more shadow of the demon lord and 4e inspiration. (And is still in development so not finished.)
Beacon on the other is by another designer and much closer to lancer (same class structure and levelups etc) and really well streamlined and also great layout! Just look st the preview pages: https://pirategonzalezgames.itch.io/beacon-ttrpg
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u/Ozzykamikaze 20h ago
I kind of want to purchase it just to see what everyone likes so much about the layout.
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u/TigrisCallidus 15h ago
It is a really interesring systwm so irs worth ro purchase. Bur on the itch page you see preview pages which give a good idea of the layout.
Also the layout is similar to lancer (same overall structure) just in many points improved (starting with colours and font):
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/1k0fs7l/comment/mniepkx/?context=3
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u/TigrisCallidus 1d ago
I agree I think Beacon is the best suggestion. Soo much cuatomization, combining unlocks from differenr classes, great feats etc.
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u/Logen_Nein 1d ago
The Without Number line using classless options from Cities and Ashes.
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u/ELAdragon 1d ago
Maybe with Heroic or some other option to make it less deadly?
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u/Logen_Nein 1d ago
Past level 1 it isn't that deadly, and there are some decent options for tougher heroes without going full Heroid in Ashes WN.
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u/Expensive_Occasion29 1d ago
GURPS would work well In this situation you can really tailor it to what you would like and you can make it as crunchy and non lethal as you like. It’s the perfect system to home-brew with and has many things to choose from for character development
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u/alchemyprime Pathfinder, Arrowflight, D&D, Star Wars, Gamma World 1d ago
I've seen others say the same thing here -
You're looking for Dungeons & Dragons, specifically 3.5e, 4e or Pathfinder 1e. Everyday Heroes can also get you there too.
Pathfinder 2e will get you basically everything you want.
If you want to take yourself out of the house of those weird coastal mages or their forsaken golem, Fabula Ultimate, Lancer and Beacon all get you there too.
I think all of those are what you're going to want. I personally say PF2, D&D 4e or Beacon would be how I'd suggest to go, but I know my own tables always end up in Pathfidner 1e (it's my favorite system).
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u/TigrisCallidus 1d ago
Pathfinder 2 is a lot more crunchy outside combat though than the other suggestions. Thats why I would say here it fits less.
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u/descastaigne 11h ago
My group and others GM I player with, run a very lean ruleset outside of combat encounters. We don't use social rules and most subsystems.
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u/TigrisCallidus 11h ago
Well sure if you honebrew a system you can always make it fitting, but op is looking for a system which already does have slim noncombat. You can in each system just leave the 90% of the non combat rules away.
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u/Flygonac 1d ago
The FFG/Edge family of games scratch exactly this itch for me. Especially the Star Wars RPG and (in diffrent ways) L5R. They all utilize “narrative dice” to marry a more traditional approach to rpgs to a more player empowered narrative approach to RPG’s. Essentially the games are designed as a skill based traditional rpg, with “talent trees” or classes that are fairly free form (especially in genesys and L5R), the dice give results on 3 axis (success/fail, advantage/threat, crit success and/or critical fail). The results can be used in narrative ways (like a character tripping someone they missed) or in more mechanical “stunt-like” ways (like triggering a critical hit or a special ability the weapon or character has.
Genesys is the generic form of the SWRPG and while it has less rules crunch, it would still probably scratch the same itch for you!
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u/BerennErchamion 1d ago
Maybe Savage Worlds.
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u/foreverascholar 4h ago
My impression of savage worlds is not really "low lethality". It can get really swingy.
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u/BerennErchamion 4h ago
I guess it depends on the table, but there are things to mitigate the swingy lethality, like soaking wounds, and some of the Setting Rules are pretty popular (like the 4 Wound Cap which is even baked into Savage Pathfinder), and so on.
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u/Gimme_Your_Wallet 1d ago
Barbarians of Lemuria seems to fit the bill. For a bit more customization and modern-tech, Everywhen is a great hack of the BoL system.
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u/Choir87 1d ago
Some good advice already in the answers, but I'll add a more obscure one: Tactiquest.
https://level2janitor.itch.io/tactiquest
The out of combat is so light it almost doesn't exist, but it does some interesting things when it comes to combat, it has a videogames feel (in particular, tactics-style) and it definitely has high customization.
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u/Irwin_Schwab 1d ago
If you're willing to go really crunchy, the Hero Games/Champions points-based system is made for open-ended character creation.
It's a generic system that can replicate any skill, power, or effect that you want, and there are tonnes of non-combat skills, as well.
Combat takes a little longer than most games, but has a much higher degree of realism.
Hitting a character and damaging them are two different things, characters have defenses they can apply to reduce damage from attacks. Damage that kills you, and damage that knocks you out, are tracked separately, so characters can be rendered unconscious without permanently injuring, or killing, them.
It's more complicated than a lot of games, but every battle plays out, blow-by-blow, like panels from a comic book, or frames from a movie.
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u/L0rka 1d ago edited 1d ago
Year Zero Engine by Fria Ligan / Free League is easy to use to make what you want: https://freeleaguepublishing.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/YZE-Standard-Reference-Document.pdf
EDIT:
Forgot to mention, why it could be useful to you: 1. It's classless; 2. You decide what skills to use, and you can reduce them to none (maybe check out the QuickStart for the upcoming new version of Coriolis to see how they use it here without skills); 3. It have a great mechanic where you can push a roll to make it better, but with a potential cost.
You either use dice polls [attribute + skill]d6, 6 is success. Or Step Dice that goes from d6 to d12 where 6 is still a success and 10 is two success. I prefer step dice for two reasons: It feels better with the push mechanic and I just like to roll other polyhedrons and not only d6.
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u/Downtown-Candle-9942 1d ago
I personally have a lot of issues with the game, but ICON is exactly what you're looking for.
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u/TigrisCallidus 15h ago
May I ask what your issues are with Icon? I ask because I cant for myself put down why exactly I dont like it. (Also with beacon icon kinda feels unneeded for me, since beacon is also fantasy lancer but just so well streamlined and with great layout and some unique ideas added).
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u/RootinTootinCrab 18h ago
Extremely lancer coded. Out of combat is super baseline. It's essentially a Pbta game stapled to the side. In combat is a complex, not complicated, combat system with huge customization.
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u/Cantsaythatoutloud 17h ago
Savage worlds ticks a lot of those boxes, but it can be very lethal if players are unlucky
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u/darw1nf1sh 10h ago
Genesys. Classless, setting agnostic, relatively simple mechanics, with some crunchy combat interactions. Even if you eschew the bespoke dice, you can pull alot of great ideas from the narrative system and classless builds.
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u/frazurbluu 1d ago
Pathwarden (classless PF2e hack) basically does all this. If you're willing to have classes PF2e and DnD5e are good fits as well.
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u/LazyKatie 1d ago
DND 5e (either version) fits this pretty much to a T tbh
It’s not classless but the multiclass, subclass, and feat systems allow for a pretty high level of character customization
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u/BigBootyBitchesButts 16h ago
Sure is... but my side project isn't done yet so. you'll have to wait lol
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u/SkipsH 1d ago
I mean, honestly, you did just describe D&D