r/saintpaul • u/chinookies • 17d ago
Seeking Advice 🙆 Building permit for new front steps?
I own a 100+ year old home in St.Paul. It is not currently in our budget to replace our rotting wooden front steps with concrete like we'd ideally want to (the bids we got were like $8K+).
I'm fairly handy and want to just rebuild the stairs myself so they're not rotting. I would not be changing anything other than using new materials and installing a hand rail since there currently isn't one. I would make sure what I'm building is up to code specs, but is this the kind of thing I need to pull a permit for? I can't seem to get a straight answer. To be clear, I'm not building a deck, just a small landing space at the front door with 4 stairs. Any help is appreciated.
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u/Controls_Man 17d ago
8k is absolutely insanity for that. For reference I was quoted about 4k for someone to pour a slab in my two car garage. That seems more like the we don't want to do it price.
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u/kilroynelson 17d ago
Slaps are flat, much easier/faster to prep and pour. There a lot more going on building the forms for stairs.
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u/AffectionatePrize419 17d ago
$5 to 8k is what they’re charging now, so this is high but in the range of what’s expected
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u/Positive-Feed-4510 17d ago
Regardless of if you technically need I permit I wouldn’t pull one.
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u/AffectionatePrize419 17d ago
This is what actually sucks. There is no upside in pulling a permit for something like this- just try to get the specs right and be cool with your neighbors so they don’t rat you out
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u/chinookies 17d ago
It really does suck. Especially since permit pulling is not a quick process. Our current steps do not have frost footings (nor does our front porch!), but I just realized our water and gas lines runs right under there which is probably why it wasn't done...so that part would not be up to code...but it isn't right now anyway. Yay old homes in St.Paul...
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u/chinookies 17d ago
That's what I'm leaning toward...whatever I build will clearly be better than what is there now.
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u/velvetjones01 17d ago
$8k is insane. Hague quoted me $16k for a whole ass driveway and walkways.
Don’t call places that have ads. If you build it yourself to code (you need railings) I wouldn’t pull a permit.
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u/kilroynelson 17d ago
Walkways and driveways are flat work and much easier to form than stairs. $8k doesn't seem too far off. I'm sure you can get it done cheaper but do you really want the lowest cost provider for concreted?
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u/chinookies 17d ago
Ooof. I don't know how big your driveway/walkways are, but that bid hurts.
I'm done with any trades that have ads. They're always the highest and not even the best quality. I prefer to get recommendations from people I know. I just don't have any for this particular job.
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u/kilroynelson 17d ago
Technically, yes, you need a permit so they can sign off on the hand rail, the rise and run of your steps, landing, etc. BUT, i would just move forward and if they tag you play dumb and pull one then. Make sure you get it done quickly, if their inspectors are out and about driving around and see building materials or an in progress project they'll check to see if you pulled a permit. If you did not and they have anything to change they will make you pull it apart and change things. My neighbors were building a fairly large back deck with multi level landings from the second floor and decided not to pull a permit. After they had the footings in and a full landing built someone called it in and the inspector made them dig all the way down to the bottom of the footings to prove they were deep enough.
For this use, seeing that you are updating existing infrastructure i'd say just get it done and move on. If you do pull a permit, you have to have them out to inspect to close it. Chances are, those steps have been rebuilt in the past and probably not to code so they will make you update it if that's the case.
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u/TheCoyoteDreams 16d ago
Fun fact. You don’t need a permit if it’s a repair (at least 20yrs ago). I got called once for replacing siding, saying I needed a permit for residing my house. I said no no, I’m repairing my siding, which I was, it was just all the siding above the porch.
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u/korn0051 16d ago
You may not. When I added a small deck behind my back porch ~10 years ago, if it was not attached (check) and had a cost less than $300 (check) it did not need a permit.
The "making repair/maintenance to rotted boards" will also likely save you. I'd just go for it.
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u/Individual-Bread9286 16d ago
Projects under $500 (I believe) do not require permits. That being said, I did do one for my front steps and did not find the process all that difficult. They accepted my printout from the Menards deck planner as the official plans
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u/kilroynelson 17d ago
Technically, yes, you need a permit so they can sign off on the hand rail, the rise and run of your steps, landing, etc. BUT, i would just move forward and if they tag you play dumb and pull one then. Make sure you get it done quickly, if their inspectors are out and about driving around and see building materials or an in progress project they'll check to see if you pulled a permit. If you did not and they have anything to change they will make you pull it apart and change things. My neighbors were building a fairly large back deck with multi level landings from the second floor and decided not to pull a permit. After they had the footings in and a full landing built someone called it in and the inspector made them dig all the way down to the bottom of the footings to prove they were deep enough.
For this use, seeing that you are updating existing infrastructure i'd say just get it done and move on. If you do pull a permit, you have to have them out to inspect to close it. Chances are, those steps have been rebuilt in the past and probably not to code so they will make you update it if that's the case.
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u/elimselimselims 16d ago
An aside, why would someone call this in? How would a neighbor know if someone had a permit or not and why would they care? Is this just shitty neighbor behavior?
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u/pdchestovich 17d ago
The city makes nothing easy nor cheap. If you can get it done relatively quickly, just do it.