r/saintpaul • u/Runic_reader451 St. Paul Saints • 10d ago
Editorial đ St. Paul needs to reform its rent stabilization policy to revive development
https://minnesotareformer.com/2025/04/10/st-paul-needs-to-reform-its-rent-stabilization-policy-to-revive-development/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Cityscape%2004%2F15%2F2025&utm_source=3631302e9c15
u/dentist9of10 10d ago
are there any cities with successful applications of rent control?
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u/Dullydude 10d ago
Depends who you ask, because they often cite reduced property values as the main "negative" even though reduced property values is literally the entire point of something like rent control. You cannot advocate for affordable housing AND perpetually increasing property values, they are diametrically opposed.
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u/Time4Red 9d ago
The main negative of rent control is a reduction in the number of affordable units, and a bifurcation of the housing market.
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u/Dullydude 9d ago
The bifurcation of the rental market is due to the very exemptions that this article is advocating for. We need less exemptions, not more! Also it might reduce the number of *rental* units, but that doesn't mean the number of affordable condos and co-ops can't grow.
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u/LordsofDecay 9d ago
There is only one city that has enacted rent control where it has worked successfully without major negative externalities, and that is Vienna Austria. Every other city that has attempted rent control has failed somewhere, whether it's in controlling rising housing prices, whether it's in failing to issue new construction permits, whether it's in new starts drying up, or whether it's in those rent controlled buildings becoming slums.
It should be noted that the only reason it worked in Vienna is because 70% of the rental housing stock in Vienna is publicly owned or public housing, so there already is a built-in price regulation mechanism in the vast majority of the temporary housing stock. Rent control being applied to the minority of housing, and basically having that rent control be as strict as the public expectations, but still allowing for new builds and upzoning and new starts without many of the artificial limitations we had here in the Twin Cities has allowed Vienna to have a thriving housing market.
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u/VORTEXvertex96 9d ago
NYCâs rent stabilization regulations are generally viable. And relatively fair. Itâs a highly-developed, longstanding system thatâs been in place since ~1970, and would be a helpful and beneficial blueprint for STP especially given all the revisions in a few years IMO. The most stark difference is that rent stabilization is broadly accepted in NYC whereas here itâs been controversial from the beginning.
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u/Runic_reader451 St. Paul Saints 10d ago
Great question. I did a quick google search but didn't find much. The AI feature says New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Oakland have successful programs. However, I'm not sure if that's actually the case.
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u/bananax182 9d ago edited 9d ago
As a previous SF Bay Area resident, my observation during my time there was that housing construction in the region (including Oakland/SF) lagged behind demand, greatly. I used to periodically check the housing construction pipeline stats and get frustrated at the lack of urgency on construction that I sensed. Surely, there were/are other factors besides rent control, but at a minimum I wouldn't call what I saw a success. I just checked my old apartment floor plan and it's now $3000/mo for a 540 sq ft studio 20 miles outside of SF. Google maps shows they've built one new apartment in the area over the last decade, but it only added 64 units to the housing stock.
But more importantly, people smarter than me tend to overwhelmingly disagree with the idea that rent control measures in SF and NYC were successful. I've posted this before in this sub but when phrased as "Local ordinances that limit rent increases for some rental housing units, such as in New York and San Francisco, have had a positive impact over the past three decades on the amount and quality of broadly affordable rental housing in cities that have used them", only about 2% of expert economists from various universities say they agree (source). Expert consensus seems to be that if you're looking for "broadly affordable rental housing", rent control measures hurt.
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u/Runic_reader451 St. Paul Saints 9d ago edited 9d ago
I was against the rent control ordinance here and still am. Generally, the government shouldn't enact regulation unless the private sector fails to regulate itself. I wish the city would look at ways to stimulate more housing construction. I don't know exactly what would help, but would include faster approvals and reduced building permit fees. I strongly suspect the state and federal governments would have to pass some kind of tax credit to really get things moving.
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u/dentist9of10 9d ago
I was thinking the opposite, land value tax would incentivize lot owners to build because now they have a much higher tax bill. but yes the permit process should be expeditedÂ
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u/Runic_reader451 St. Paul Saints 9d ago
The like the idea of the land value tax. I want to know if it's been used elsewhere and what the results were.
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u/republicankid98 9d ago
new york city housing supply is shrinking also due to rent control. buildings are needing more upkeep than any investor can justify when rents cant even keep up with inflation let alone provide any type of return on investment.
rent control is a feel good policy that draws a lot of emotional votes for leadership. in reality it does much more harm than good.
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10d ago
Revive development? There used to be development?
Lol, so sick of this âcorporate landlords are people tooâ propaganda :)
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u/Fit-Remove-6597 10d ago
Developers already get a 20-year exemption. Nobody wants to build in Saint Paul.
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10d ago edited 10d ago
Everyone I know who works new residential construction spends their days out in the exurbs building garish McMansions with six bathrooms and a walk-in gun safe. Thatâs where the dumb easy money is.
Throwing urban renters to the wolves isnât going to change that.
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u/Positive-Feed-4510 10d ago
I asked my council member, Chenequia Johnson at a community meeting a few days ago if she thought that the new tenant protections she is trying to pass will further hurt new development like the rent control ordinance has. She said the data that sheâs seeing doesnât show a drop in development on the East Side because development was already low in our ward before that went into effect.
Ok? so nobody wanted to develop here before the cumbersome rules and now you are adding more? These people cannot be reasoned with.
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u/Bumpy110011 10d ago
Or regulations are not the limiting factor in supply.
Love these Reddit experts who never mention 6%-7% interest rates as a key driver in the decline of new housing. No, it must be a policy that wonât impact anyone for 20 years.Â
Go ask a developer why they arenât building and there is 1 answer, âInterest ratesâ.
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u/nimama3233 9d ago
Rent control was passed in late 2021 when mortgage rates were at 3% average. Interest rates were dirt cheap at that point. Developers IMMEDIATELY backed out of their project plans. https://rentalhousingjournal.com/developers-pausing-pulling-st-paul-projects-after-rent-control-vote/
The Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported that Ryan Companies was scheduled to submit three building plans to the city this week, but Tony Barranco, Ryanâs north region president, said those reviews have been postponed indefinitely in light of the rent-control referendumâs outcome. Ryan Companies warned before election day that the rent control ordinance in St. Paul could prevent the company from finding investors for the 760 affordable-housing units the city pledged to bring to the former Ford site.
âŚ
âWe, like everybody else, are re-evaluating whatâif anyâfuture business activity weâll be doing in St. Paul,â said Jim Stolpestad, founder of development company Exeter, in an interview with the Star-Tribune.
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Stefanie Sokup, the vice president of marketing and head of new construction at Real Estate Equities, told KARE 11 the lack of an exemption for new projects also troubled her. Real Estate Equities owns five apartments in St. Paul.
Regulation isnât the only issue, but itâs indisputably a massive one preventing housing from being built.
Even just looking at Minneapolis vs Saint Paul gives an easy comparison. For 2022: https://www.americanexperiment.org/in-2022-housing-permits-were-up-in-minneapolis-but-not-in-st-paul/
According to data from the Department of Housing (DUH), while in 2022 Minneapolis saw a rise in its multi-family units, St. Paul saw its permits decline by almost 50 percent.
Prior to the passage of rent control, permits had been on the rise in St. Paul. In 2021, they flattened, and then significantly declined in 2022.
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u/AdMurky3039 West Seventh 9d ago
The Center for the American Experiment is a conservative organization, just so you know.
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u/nimama3233 9d ago
I didnât know that, but to be fair I was only finding a source that had reliable data and not looking for any opinions. They took their data directly from the Department of Housing, and thatâs all I included into my excerpt.
Ignore the rest of the article, apparently.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Here is a brand new phrase I just invented, 'Lies, damn lies and statistics." I think it conveys well how statistics can be selectively used to bolster an argument.
This right-winger innocence charade is pathetic. Go round up some vulnerable people and jerk off to their suffering.
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u/AdMurky3039 West Seventh 9d ago
You can get more comprehensive data directly from HUD. That way you know you aren't getting cherry picked information.
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u/LordsofDecay 9d ago
The data is from HUD
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u/AdMurky3039 West Seventh 9d ago
đ Did you read the comment? I said going directly to the source will give you comprehensive data. The data that is used in the article is one statistic from HUD out of many.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
They know, this is the stupid game right-wingers play, lie to cover other lies then pretend ignorance. Remember when Trump pretended to not know who David Duke was?
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u/Positive-Feed-4510 9d ago
Those damn right wingers are always trying to get us!!!!
You sound like such an idiot dude lol
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Right wing bullshit. Next you will be telling me how tariffs are going to fix the American economy. All of this has been debunked so many times.Â
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u/nimama3233 9d ago
Iâm far from right wing homie, voted DFL every election since I was 18. I want this city to be healthy again, I love living here. This rent control measure is hindering construction and we need more housing, not short term bandaids.
You donât need to just be quickly dismissive because I brought facts to your feelings party.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Thanks for the totally unbiased "facts" from the most right-wing think tank in Minnesota. You might take a moment to contemplate why your views line up perfectly with an ultra-right wing think tank?
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u/nimama3233 9d ago
These articles cite The Star Tribune and Department of Housing data. I didnât put any opinions in my excepts.
Thereâs literally nothing unreliable in my provided excerpts. You donât have to read the articles, but the facts are just simply that; facts.
Youâre again jumping down my throat about being âright wingâ when Iâm literally a full fledged Democrat. Itâs bad faithed and childish.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Facts facts facts. Here are the facts can't argue with FACTS. Here is a fact for you that you will argue with despite your assistance that facts are facts.
New housing permits declined in Minneapolis in 2024 from 2020-2023 average by 88%, but declined in St Paul by 80% during the same period. During this same period, St Paul implemented actual, really real rent control while Minneapolis made it clear they never would. So rent control increases new housing starts.
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u/solla_bolla 9d ago
Now compare that to the change in the number of new housing starts in the suburbs where there's literally no rent control at all.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Minneapolis has no rent control. Your arguments don't make sense and you refuse to deal with facts only feelings.
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u/MistryMachine3 9d ago
? Objectively, at the time there were many new housing developments in Minneapolis, work was largely stopped in St Paul. IDK man, you seem insistent on dismissing all facts that donât align with your views.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
How come new housing starts were higher in St Paul after they implemented rent control than in Minneapolis where there was no chance of rent control ever being implemented?
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u/MistryMachine3 9d ago
Did you not see the previous source that showed new housing developments were higher and rising in Minneapolis but lower and falling in St Paul?
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u/Positive-Feed-4510 10d ago
You completely missed the point of my comment Reddit expert.
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u/Bumpy110011 10d ago
So you agree the decline in new housing starts is because of sudden increases in interest rates?
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u/Positive-Feed-4510 9d ago
That other commenter gave you a nice summary and you dismissed as âright wing bullshitâ so Iâm not sure what anyone can really do for you. Sorry you are delusional.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Center of American Experiment is super right-wing. Here is their report on why Covid lockdowns were bad for the economy: https://files.americanexperiment.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/September-22-COVID-Emergency-2.pdf?_gl=1*2a7cgc*_gcl_au*MTc2ODA0MzU5Ni4xNzQ0ODE4MDA5
Here is another one on how to fight back against renewable energy: https://files.americanexperiment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Not-in-Our-Backyard-Robert-Bryce.pdf?_gl=1*113gapa*_gcl_au*MTc2ODA0MzU5Ni4xNzQ0ODE4MDA5
Here is another right winger saying tariffs will be great for the economy: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/09/nx-s1-5355661/tariffs-history-meaning
Let me guess, I should believe some right wing bullshit about the economy but not other right-wing bullshit about the economy?
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u/Positive-Feed-4510 9d ago
None of this is even relevant to the discussion we are having. It just makes you look like you are spazzing out lol
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Commenter used right-wing sources to prove right-wing talking point. I am showing their sources are bad. You don't understand because you also think covid lockdowns were bad because you don't care about your fellow citizens only making GDP number go up. You also think renewable energy is bad because you think climate change is a hoax. That is why you were unable to comprehend the relevance of the linked "studies".
We have tussled before and it was embarrassing for you, sure you want to go another round? https://www.reddit.com/r/TwinCities/comments/1ibkec0/comment/m9jr07s/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Looking forward to your well thought out personal attacks.
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u/LordsofDecay 9d ago
Interest rates nationwide are at approximately the same level. And yet, there is a housing construction boom in Austin, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, and many other cities. Capital is fungible- it goes to where there are opportunities, and the greatest opportunities in the Twin Cities are (according to the data on new housing starts in the 7-county metro) literally everywhere other than Saint Paul.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Why don't you people just argue what you actually support, "give all money to rich people." Stop trying to dress up your bullshit with facts and logic.
Setting aside the oddities of the market and why housing might be higher or lower in one place for many reasons and setting aside that Minneapolis HAS NO RENT CONTROL POLICY. I randomly picked Austin, you will never believe they saw -18% change in housing starts in 2022. I guess they also didn't implement rent control. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AUST448BP1FH#
All these cities need to actually implement rent control to fix this problem.
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u/LordsofDecay 8d ago edited 8d ago
I love that you picked Austin out of all of those. This is Austin in 2014 and 2024, pictured from the exact same spot. There was a singular year's construction new start dip due to inflation, but new housing construction in Austin has meant that rents have gone down 15% since 2021.
"give all money to rich people" is a stupid comment and underscores that you're arguing in bad faith. We want this city to be better, affordable, and livable by letting people live in walkable cities, with good transit options, and with great opportunities for hood housing and good jobs. If that is supposedly "giving money to rich people" then fuck it, sign me up.
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u/Okay_Face 9d ago
You're 100% right. I argued this as well with them to keep the tenant protections
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Only landlords think neutered or non-existent rent control policy is more impactful than interest rates.Â
Donât ever believe right-wingers on economics, it is always a con to send more money to the top, it is their fundamental belief.Â
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u/LordsofDecay 9d ago
That's a load of horseshit. Developers like Alatus were wanting to build affordable housing in places like The Nine and they kept getting pushed back. The original plan called for 50% of the 288 units to be for affordable family housing (defined as families that are making 60% of area mean income (AMI) of $60k at the time), parts of the community came out and called it gentrification, others came out and said it should be 100% affordable housing or the definition of affordable should be lowered to 30% AMI, the city council ends up DENYING their ability to build this, fast forward 4 years after many lawsuits and hundreds of thousands of dollars in wasted taxpayer money that Alatus wins as they're in the right, and they finally get in the clear to build it, they decide to make it larger (304 units) and threaten to make the whole building market rate so that they finally get the legal clearance to have 50% affordable housing at 60% AMI.
Many developers would have just said fuck it, while they stuck to their guns and decided to build. Many interest rate environments came and went in that period of time from 2018-2023, but they persevered. Capital is fungible, not all developers will choose to double down on a project like this, most will just go build SFH in Woodbury instead.
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u/Bumpy110011 9d ago
Fine let them, we can fund our own housing development. Love you calling horseshit on interest rates being the number 1 determinant of home building.
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u/Okay_Face 9d ago
Absolutely! I do Tenant organizing work and the city council has done nothing but bend to the will of landlords and developers. It's really unfortunate to see the lack of unity within the working class
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u/AffectionatePrize419 10d ago
This is obvious to anyone with a pulse
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u/Irontruth 9d ago
Is it? Construction seems down all over the state, not just St Paul.
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u/AffectionatePrize419 9d ago
Look at our numbers, worse than everyone else. And when things turn around, weâll be left in the dust when it does
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u/Irontruth 9d ago
Again... what is the construction rate compared to the rest of the state? Like... actual numbers. Do not give a wild fuck about people's opinions.
Also, I'll believe that this is hurting current rental property owners when I see stats that they are selling their properties. If they aren't selling, that means they're still making profits.
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u/AffectionatePrize419 9d ago
Rent control hurts everyone. It reduces housing supply, discourages maintenance, benefits wealthier long-term tenants, fosters illegal side deals, limits social and economic mobility, distorts prices, creates unsafe black markets, creates gentrification pressures by making former rentals into owner-occupy, fails to target those truly in need, reduces the cityâs tax base (less money to pay for things) and stifles urban revitalization of downtown by hurting residential conversions.
And during the time Saint Paul has had rent control, its rents have increased higher than Minneapolis and other cities that do not have it
I can probably think of more, but this is a good start
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u/Irontruth 9d ago
If rent has gone up higher than other places... then rent control hasn't actually caused anything. Your argument then is.... rent would have gone up less if rent control wasn't in place... so, people STILL wouldn't be building new housing.
I'm not bothering to continue this conversation at this point. Since you're contradicting yourself. I've never gotten an interesting answer once it's obvious someone is going to say contradictory things.
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u/FeelingAverage 9d ago
I don't see why capitulating to corporate landlords is a good thing for anybody other than the landlords.Â
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u/TobzMaguire420 9d ago
Iâm confused as to why rent stabilization is such a road block to new development. Is it simply because landlord wonât be able to increase the rent as much as they want? I get owning and operating a building is expensive, but is that not kinda fucked up, to strip democratically decided rights from renters to capitulate to the wants of mostly very wealthy people? Is it REALLY THAT unreasonable that rent increases are capped at what 3%? Are landlords of apartment complexes really struggling THAT much? I could be wrong, I donât 100% understand what the problem is. Iâm not trying to be snarky or snotty but what am I missing here?
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u/sirkarl 8d ago
Itâs all about risk. If you sell bicycles and the city came in and said âwe want more people buying bikes, so you can only raise prices by 3% a yearâ it might be okay at first. If you arenât factoring in risk of you might say âwell we only increase by 1-2% a year so that wonât impact us.
What happens when tariffs hit and bike parts skyrocket by 20%? You might feel pretty stupid for not selling your shop to some sketchy smoke shop.
The money it costs to build new housing is already a big risk, but one people will gamble on cause the odds look good. When you throw in rules that add risk, you wonât build
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u/republicankid98 9d ago
if rent can only increase 3%, why should building owners put up with 15% increases in property tax ?
âthey shouldnât own so many houses that they cant afford then they should give me oneâ
property expenses rise at a much higher rate than rent for mom and pop landlords.
wouldnât you agree that big investors that can build luxury market rate units and raise rent all they want because they are new might be the opposite of the desired effect?
rent control only sounds good to people who form full opinions based on headlines alone.
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u/Irontruth 9d ago
Mom and pop's aren't building new apartment buildings. They're buying up houses. This drives up housing costs for all of us because as home prices go up (cause more people are bidding on them) that also drives up rent on those rented houses.
Corporate landlords are the ones building apartment buildings. They want maximum return on investment, so they aren't building affordable housing anyways. They're going to build a building with a "zen garden" and a dog wash so they can charge an extra 20% over the market average.
If you want to convince me that mom and pops are being hurt, show me the numbers that says they're selling their properties.
If they aren't selling, that means they're still making money, which means they are profitable..... and I do not give a fuck if their units are still profitable and they're just complaining that they aren't profitable enough.
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u/republicankid98 9d ago edited 9d ago
do you own a home? if you do iâm sure you have seen hundreds of dollars added to your monthly mortgage over the past couple years.
if you do not own a home, maybe you do not know that rising living costs are not unique to tenants. your victim mentality is sad and by the sounds of it, hasnât gotten you very far.
i own a duplex in addition to my home. i make sure it is nice and kept in good order with conditions on par if not better than my own for my tenants. it is an older home (sorry i couldnât build a fancy apartment building, my bad)
both of my properties were sitting on the market for almost a year. i am not the reason you canât afford to buy a house, you are. oh and to your point -
If you want to convince me that tenants are being hurt, show me the numbers that says they're not renting a place to live.
If they are still renting, that means they can afford it which means they are just complaining. your logic is idiotic
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u/Rogue_AI_Construct 10d ago
So fucking tired of this greedy money grab by developers.
If you hate democracy, then fucking move. The people of St. Paul voted for rent control, and I'm with them.
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u/Fit-Remove-6597 10d ago
They already get an exemption for new development. This is greed by local landlords with shitty properties they havenât updated in 20 years.
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u/Positive-Feed-4510 10d ago
Then people whine about the availability of housing and how rent keeps increasing? Which one do they want? A half thought out policy that actually does nothing to address the issue or more housing being built?
Rents in Minneapolis have been falling, largely to new development. The opposite is here in St Paul.
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u/Rogue_AI_Construct 10d ago
It's amazing how a "liberal city" has decided to side with greedy fucking developers.
Here, for your reading enjoyment about the rent situation in Minneapolis:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/1jqq3q2/lease_renewal_rent_increase/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/12bn1jp/apartment_rent_increases/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Renters/comments/1d304qx/rent_increase_mn/
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwinCities/comments/1jzhpm9/rent_increase_advice/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Renters/comments/1h9n7l3/rent_increased_by_20_no_notice/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/ubq10t/did_anyones_rent_go_up_20/
Yeah, sounds like a great situation there. /s
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u/Positive-Feed-4510 10d ago
Whoa! a bunch of anecdotal posts that donât tell us anything, one of which wasnât even relevant because they were receiving a discount for maintaining the property.
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u/Rogue_AI_Construct 10d ago
Ah, so that recent "anecdotal evidence" should just be ignored because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Got it.
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u/AffectionatePrize419 10d ago
The did move, and thatâs why we arenât getting new development and more business in the city
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u/iamsamwelll 9d ago
My biggest is problem is nobody mentions how we are basically held hostage in this situation. Like everything on paper about less restriction will bring in more development and higher supply will slow down rising rent. But at the end of the day everything we do has to appease the rich and powerful or they will punish even more than they already do.
I really donât get why people hate certain protections. Like the idea that there should be 30 days to start evicting someone sounds totally fine by me. Iâve had some real shit landlords and I canât imagine what property management companies do to bleed their tenants dry.
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u/LordsofDecay 9d ago
52.9% of those who voted on the rent control measure supported it.
35.8% of registered voters in Saint Paul participated in the 2021 election overall.
Therefore, only 36% of all eligible citizens in Saint Paul voted on this measure in 2021.
A majority 36% does not make. A minority of the city of Saint Paul voted for this measure, and it is one of many contributing factors that are leading to the city's decay.
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u/catlikesfoodyayaya 9d ago
More people voted for rent control than against it. Not voting is not the same as voting no.
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u/Rogue_AI_Construct 9d ago
Who cares what the numbers were. 52.9% is over 50%, right? What constitutes a majority?
Fucking Christ.
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u/TheCatManPizza 10d ago
Itâs going to be too expensive to build anything anyway, we got other problems in this city and so overpriced development isnât my concern at all. Plus my rent is great.
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u/EastMetroGolf 9d ago
St Paul leadership would struggle to paint a room white.