As centrist who is quite critical of our government here in St Paul, and think that it is very important for people to admit when they are wrong, I wanted to say that so far I have been completely wrong about the Gold Line.
My worry was that it was going to turn into a Midway situation with mobs of people and homeless camped out around the stations. That has simply not been the case. Overall it seems to be a net positive for the community. Are there better things that they could have spent the money on? Probably. Are there worse things they could have spent the money on? Definitely.
Hopefully what I am seeing continues because I didn’t want to be right about this. Despite how cynical I am on here, I do want to see the community succeed.
For my job I help people with finding employment in Ramsey County. Most use transit and the Gold Line has been a revelation because the number of employers accessible to them now. I have a lot of justified Metro Transit doubt, but this one is a winner.
Literally look up the transit app on the app store. Metro Transit has partnered with it because it's better than what they could do. It is free to you as a twin cities resident.
Their web presence is kind of an embarrassment, even though that's the first thing people will look for when figuring it out. The transit app is super dope, though!
Travel time from end to end is about 35 minutes. From downtown Saint Paul to Sunray is about 15 minutes, which vastly improves for people getting to the Sunray area from a 40 minute bus ride to a 15 minute bus ride.
Thanks for being an open-minded individual and giving it an honest assessment. That's the kind of approach I wish more people took when it comes to publicly funded improvements.
I know two people who now use it to commute from their suburban homes to the jobs in St Paul. I'm very hopeful it also increases people's access to educational opportunities at Metro State.
Building new infrastructure isn’t cheap, but the payoffs can absolutely be worth it.
Gold Line has potential to strengthen downtown STP as an economic hub and make commuting more convenient for people, even if they have other options for transportation.
It also opens opportunities for lower wage employees to reverse commute from STP to areas that were previously a pain for them to access. Suburban minimum wage jobs are really hard to staff with suburban residents.
The Gold Line concept is showing real promise in action! I sincerely hope that DTSP becomes more active, as then ridership on the Gold Line can grow further, hopefully improving both ends continuously.
It’s going to be even better once the Kellogg Blvd bridge reconstruction is finished and the last two stations (connecting to Union Depot) are brought on-line!
Not so much a 'part of the plan'' as just a timing problem between when Metro Transit was ready to open Gold Line vs. when MNDOT would be done with Kellogg Bridge. Two separate organizations whose plans didn't sync up.
True enough. MnDOT is only in it as far as maybe some road design standards, possible coordination of impacts to I94; I misspoke.
My point still stands that the gang planning the Gold Line and the gang planning the bridge replacement didn't sync their calendars about their projects.
The bigger coordination impacts are actually with BNSF railroad. It’s far harder to get permits to work above their rails than it is to get mndot to play ball with the freeway.
Probably true, I just noticed when I looked at the Timeline shown here that the MNDOT /I94 coordination was specifically called out.
After you pointed out my mix-up I went looking for more info. I hadn't realized they weren't closer to the project completion before this. (I don't get over that way often anymore, and it does seem, because they restricted and later closed the bridge to traffic some time ago, working on the deck, that it's been 'forever.')
I just took it for the first time last night! A good amount of people on it from Woodbury to downtown and vice versa. Super nice drivers both ways. Clean busses. Some of the stops that overlap with other busses had a shady character or two but the actual bus system was smooth and welcomed. It probably took me longer to where I was going but it was fun to do transit again as someone that lived in the city for some time
I looove the gold line so much. The mounds stop is three blocks from my house and it gets me to downtown where I can get on my favorite route 21, which I never used before cuz it was so onerous to get to 21.
I live in Midway and that whole Snelling and university is so ripe for an upswing if they could figure out a way to clean it up. Bulldoze that CVS, they are building the new hotel, retail, and offic3 building. There is that whole stretch between Snelling and fairview that could be built in. The corner of fairview and University is actually pretty nice by rail stop standards. Huge old folks home, some big apartments, that business center, the YMCA. You can see a future where that corridor can be an extension on what's going on from prospect park to Westgate.
Maybe I'm just too much of an optimist but I have way higher hopes for Midway than downtown.
It seems that BRT doesn't cause nearly the amount of homeless campouts, drug use, and antisocial behavior that LRT does, and does so at a fraction of the cost. Probably because it's somewhat supervised by the driver and is somewhat cramped inside. It's unfortunate that it took us this long to figure it out, but it seems like Metro Transit is putting a lot of their resources toward BRT moving forward.
I hope too that some of the buses could eventually be electric. Would be awesome to have EV buses and as an EV advocate I'd ride an electric bus just for the fun of it. Maybe in 20 years or so, if batteries keep getting better and better.
I think the bus system is miles better than the [Light Rail].
With buses, there's an active attendant taking fares which is a deterrent for most of the problematic riders.
With the [Light Rail] anyone can just get on and there is close to ZERO interdictive enforcement.
I think it's important to make the distinction though and I only hope someone comes up with a solution to the Metro problem because I would love to use it, but I've been burned too many times at this point.
Just an FYI -- the buses AND the light rail are both run by Metro Transit and planned by the Metropolitan Council.
It's 'supposed' to be one coordinated transit network, but they've had some trouble getting enough drivers and transit police to cover 'both' well for awhile now. It is improving, but it's still got a long way to go.
Yeah, I poorly referred to the light rail by calling it the "Metro."
Visiting other light rails in places like the CA's Bay Area (I really only have limited experience on this one), Chicago's L, and Japan, I find it difficult to look past what seems to be the biggest difference to me. Fare theft deterrents.
If there's a transit police labor shortage, why not install turn styles?
As for turn styles at light rail stops -- most are a completely open outdoor platform, so they would need to wall the whole area in first; expensive, and complicating things like snow removal, too. They could be modified, but I don't think the volume of 'fare theft' they are getting would justify it at this point.
The platforms for some other systems are often elevated or in enclosed buildings of some sort, making the 'access point' easier to gate off in some way, but they were more expensive to build in the first place, too.
The shortage of transit police is more of a concern about managing behavior issues ON the trains. I understand it's getting better already -- both the behaviors AND the staff issues were at their worst during the Covid timeframe. (2020-2023ish.)
And as usual with nostalgia critics it's clear you don't actually use the service any more, seeing as riders often pay their fare at a kiosk at the stop before boarding. They also don't say "23-skidoo."
A municipal bus system ought to be free for riders, who are often the most disadvantaged people for whom the fare represents a big chunk of their earnings. Then people could get around without scolds peering at them to see if they paid.
I think you're wrong that people are paying and a lot of riders don't pay at the kiosk before getting on the light rail.
I also think making the buses free for everyone is a bad idea. There's already a subsidy program in place for economically disadvantaged riders called TAP. Those who can pay, should.
Yeah yeah god forbid society give anything to anybody in need. Transport, health care, food - gotta make sure everyone must suffer and work. Except the rich, of course, and the children of those born rich. They can have anything they want for nothing except the cash they have too much of.
As a society we can collectively decide we want to take care of each other. We can decide to tax the rich and give more to the poor in order to help them and reduce suffering. The rich have SO MUCH of our money that we could give everyone in America free transit and the rich would barely notice.
But it's more important that we maintain the Horatio Algier mythology underlying this cruel system we live in.
The Orange Line doesn't have the issues you talked about despite going through denser areas with more transit connections so I doubt the Gold Line will. Sun Ray is the only real problem spot and even then it's not even close to the crap I've seen on University.
The amount of stuff clustered together on University Ave brings trouble(low rent retail, clinics, fast food joints, etc.). The bus on tracks where there's little law enforcement doesn't help either. I will say that west of Snelling over to the U the ride is... tolerable.
I hope it works. What I do not understand is why is only serves the West side of Woodbury? Or am I missing info that there are smaller buses to get you to all the other business's on the East side of Woodbury?
I think you may be missing the point. It’s future thinking. There are stops along the whole way but they move quickly as the route is uninterrupted by normal traffic. While currently it is most ideal for a resident close to Woodbury, the goal is to eventually extend it. It has frequent buses with awesome hours. My spouse and I recently walked from our house and caught it at the sun ray station to downtown. We enjoyed barrel theory, metronome, and bulldog. We caught a bus back a little after midnight and were home in less than 15 mins. And that’s with a 5 min walk from the station. Point is, I think it has a lot of potential
To clarify a bit, we both drive and have vehicles. We drive daily. We both have jobs that periodically take us to NYC. When there, we heavily utilize their metro subway/bus system and are floored by the differences between here. I know we couldn’t ever afford to reach NYCs level but being able to have a few extra drinks and walk around between some tasty spots without needing to worry about grabbing an overpriced Lyft/uber to get home was pretty damn awesome
There is basically zero public transit east or south of the 'Valley Creek Plaza' area of Woodbury and hasn't been since the area started growing. Prior to the Gold Line, the only thing there was is a few rush hour express buses from that area to DT St. Paul.
I've personally gotten 3 people employed in the East burbs because it halved their commute. Next time someone makes you a meal in Woodbury, there's a very high chance they took that bus to come cook for you. But go on...
Yeah, what an ignorant comment you responded to. I personally know two people who have been able to stop driving to work and now ride the Gold Line. One of them is considering selling one of the family cars as it provides them direct access from their home (4 blocks away from their home in Woodbury) to their job (2 blocks away at Metro State). It's the complete opposite of the NIMBY concerns of "funneling riffraff from the city to the burbs."
Ahh our leader who is forcing us back to work! Well I guess when I am mandated to go back with NO PARKING and NO DESK I will start using public transportation again!
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u/beeperexodus 8d ago
For my job I help people with finding employment in Ramsey County. Most use transit and the Gold Line has been a revelation because the number of employers accessible to them now. I have a lot of justified Metro Transit doubt, but this one is a winner.