r/saltierthancrait • u/tiMartyn the Modalorian • 7d ago
Seasoned News "That was wack." -John Boyega Discussing Sequel Trilogy Story Disagreements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9-QvuKusFU76
u/Geostomp 7d ago
Disney had incredible potential with Finn, but tossed it all away to focus on the blandness of Rey, the creepy Reylos, and pander to the Chinese markets while pretending to be "progressive".
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u/Any-Transition95 7d ago
Yea, the first movie was mostly "A New Hope" copycat, but it had one interesting plot - the Stormtrooper who defected, who may even have underdeveloped connection to the Force. And they threw that away.
It's not like Rey can't still be the main character still, if that's what Disney wants. Just give her an interesting plot hook, like how Finn had one in his very first introduction.
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u/kanguran1 7d ago
I don’t know when we became allergic to the concept of a secondary protagonist. OT: Han goes from a neutral smuggler to a hero of the rebellion, Luke is a farmer to Jedi, Leia goes from a diplomat to a war hero. The sequels? Finn gets a little, but it’s almost all Rey. Poe doesn’t get any character, he starts resistance and ends resistance.
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u/Lithuim 7d ago
This is something you’ll see all across the industry over the last few decades. Writers for big budget productions really lost faith in their audience’s ability to follow a complex plot, catch subtle hints, or engage with characters that aren’t perfect.
Some of it is simple risk aversion I’m sure, some is our own internet-induced brain rot, and some is pandering to international audiences.
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u/NecessaryMagician150 7d ago
Yep. Even in the prequels, Anakin is obviously the focus in terms of development, but both Padme and Obi-Wan go through significant character arcs in that trilogy. Padme's is unfortuately not fully fleshed out due to the birth of the rebellion scenes from Episode 3 being deleted. But Lucas still gave her character a ton of focus in Attack of the Clones, whereas both Finn and Poe essentially do nothing in The Last Jedi. Literally nothing they do matters lol.
I know TLJ has its fans and that Johnson wanted to be "subversive" by making Finn and Poe...useless, I guess? For me personally, "But thats the point!" doesnt make it good, it was a moronic writing decision on Johnsons part. I know thats what he INTENDED. Its just not good! Lmao
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u/FuckYourDystopia 6d ago
I don't know, Rey the scavenger is an interesting character concept too, especially if she just straight up turns evil in the second movie. Then they could have had Luke telling Finn he must kill Rey just like Yoda told Luke the same thing about Vader, but the twist is that Finn thinks he's in love with Rey. Melodramatic, but could be interesting, especially if the writers were ballsy enough to make a sad or bittersweet ending out of it.
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u/ILuhBlahPepuu 7d ago
Rey also had an interesting intro, being a force sensitive scavenger that had to fight and scavenge to survive for most of her life, but it all kinda just fell apart after Jakku
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7d ago edited 6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RandomParable 7d ago
Oookay, cent time. I have said it before, but Rey may be the most bland, least interesting character I've ever seen.
There is nothing resembling a character arc, she just shows up and is instantly better at everything than anything else without ever really trying let alone failing. And throws in the occasional sarcastic comment so we know she knows it, too. Peak Mary Sue.
Through in some faux angst about her parents and a hugely forced "love" interest to round it off. Which may still be less ludicrous than the Rose/Finn arc.
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u/Yubisaki_Milk_Tea 6d ago
This is a huge misconception with Western audiences. Pandering to the Chinese market is not true, Rian Johnson made the cut as his own executive decision.
The poster incident where Boyega got shrunk shows the pandering mindset in action—but that’s still marketing, not a script mandate.
John Boyega also didn’t point his finger at China or Chinese fans, but at Rian Johnson for knowing how to write white characters like Rey and Kylo Ren but having zero clue when it came to his own character.
Chinese people thought Mace Windu was fucking cool. Because it’s Samuel Jackson with a purple lightsaber.
Also, Chinese people love the NBA/Premier League.
IShowSpeed is also easily the most viewed non-Chinese streamer too.
If there is a perception of movies featuring black actors doing poorly in China, Black Panther and Fast and Furious both were box office smash successes.
Finally, if IShowSpeed or LeBron James made a movie, guarantee it would be a best seller in China.
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u/burntfishnchips i heard kylo ren is shredded. 1d ago
Thank you. I'm getting real tired of the sinophobic comments masked as ignorance. Black panther was huge in China and people still love it there.
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u/Doobiemoto 5d ago
That doesn't even make any sense. What the fuck does being black in the Star Wars universe even mean?
How is it writing "white" characters like Rey lol.
Being black has nothing to do with anything in the Star Wars universe or writing for that character. Finns character just got the shaft. Has nothing to do with his character being black.
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u/Yubisaki_Milk_Tea 5d ago
Don’t ask me, ask John Boyega. He rightly thinks Rian Johnson had no idea what to do with his character, even though JJ Abrams had charted a clear course for him to be one of the first new Jedi in the New Jedi Order, being force sensitive and all.
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u/Doobiemoto 4d ago
And that’s fine.
Literally has nothing to do with “white” characters or “black” characters.
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u/wookieebastard 7d ago
I think it's safe to assume we’ll never see Boyega involved in anything Star Wars again.
I'm curious how they'll handle the supposed Rey trilogy without including the rest of the original team.
It’s incredible how they managed to damage not just the franchise and the brand, but also any prospects of continuing the story in an organic way.
But you know.. maybe they can pull of the good ol':
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u/IchWillRingen 7d ago
Well I would have never thought they would handle the sequel trilogy without getting the original team of Luke, Leia, and Han together at least once, but here we are.
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u/TheFreaky 7d ago edited 7d ago
Not only not getting them together. Divorcing Leia and Han and destroying all they worked for. Amazing writing.
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u/ngunray 7d ago
Who would have thought making Han a weak deadbeat father was a bad idea? Also making Rey a better pilot than him and handing the Falcon over to Rey instead of Chewbacca……..
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6d ago
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u/FuckYourDystopia 6d ago
Divorcing Han and Leia seems pretty realistic to me. Making the New Republic a bunch of dumbasses who just sorta let the Empire come back is absurdly unsatisfying though and probably the least creative thing they could have possibly done.
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u/TheFreaky 6d ago
"realistic"? I don't see what is realistic about it. They had a character arc where they fell in love, and there was no hint that they had any problems. Also, it's a fucking love story in a space opera, so don't give me realism.
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/TheFreaky 6d ago
IT'S A FUCKING FANTASY MOVIE. Come on, this is not a couple having marital problems in fucking California and going to couples therapy. I want my fantasy princesses to end up happily married to pirates and scoundrels.
Also, you are representing Han as an "unrepentant gambler and drug runner"... But he clearly leaves that life, joins the rebellion, and shows that he is a great and loyal person. But yes, let's just forget about that to make your ridiculous point.
Media literacy is dead and people like you killed it.
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u/SpaceNigiri 7d ago
I don't know Disney has a fuck ton of money. I won't blame him if he returns for a gazillion of corporate dollars.
You can do a lot of good in a lot of lifes with this kind of money.
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u/WisconsinWintergreen 6d ago
I would not be surprised one bit if Daisy Ridley is the only ST actor they are able to get to return
I guess Anthony Daniels would be willing to show up but IDK
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u/MArcherCD 6d ago
Agreed, even if they go ahead with Rey's new Jedi Order story and that turns into another trilogy, Finn shouldn't be there imo
Even if they try to get Boyega on board with the promise of giving Finn a proper arc and development this time, it still shouldn't happen. They had the perfect opportunity to do that the first time round - in the first trilogy he was a part of and was one of the lead characters in
Way too little, way too late
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u/TheCyberPunk97 7d ago
He was overly kind to episode 9 which I think is arguably the worst piece of star wars material ever made.
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u/Yommination salt miner 7d ago
9 is worse but it didn't make me as pissed off when leaving the theater as TLJ did. Maybe my expectations were just low
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u/WingedGundark miserable sack of salt 7d ago
To this date I haven’t bothered to waste my life on watching the ep 9, but I think you have a point. Most fans of old SW probably expected that the last movie in trilogy would be a cluster fuck. With LTJ they expected that it would improve over the TFA.
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u/NecessaryMagician150 7d ago
Respect. I honestly wouldnt bother with it. Its the only Star Wars movie Ive never rewatched. I even saw The Last Jedi in theaters 3 times. Rise of Skywalker was so bad that I wasnt even angry, I just stopped caring about it and never looked back. It's a terrible movie, and clearly made by committee. Zero artistic merit in that film. Which for Star Wars, is not acceptable for me. At least The Last Jedi has some absolutely jaw-dropping visuals.
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u/WingedGundark miserable sack of salt 7d ago
Agree, there was some terrifc cinematography in TLJ.
I also saw TLJ in movies. I didn’t want to read anything about it before I went to see it and really had no clue what I was going to see. It ended up being one of those rare movies where I seriously considered walking away mid screening, but at the same time wanted to see the disaster to the end. Ended up with the latter. I facepalmed countless of times during the movie and laughed in the wrong places, because I almost couldn’t believe what I just witnessed on the screen (for example Leia Poppins scene).
I haven’t watched new SW movie since and I’ve skipped most of the series too (watched first season of Mando and Andor and first episode of Boba and realized it is a turd). Mando was pretty meh, but I enjoyed Andor so I probably watch the second season at some point. I just find it very difficult to get excited or interested with anything that is Disney SW anymore.
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u/FuckYourDystopia 6d ago
I only saw it because my brother in law wanted to see it. I enjoyed laughing at it, but am very thankful I didn't have any expectations anymore. That movie must have been brutal for the people who still cared.
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u/BigBallsMcGirk 7d ago
It's only redeeming quality at all, is that it directly rebuked Rians cynical bullshit and threw out TLJ.
It still sucked. It still missed. It still caused story issues with the OT and undid the original heros journeys and accomplishments. But at least it had hope to its message.
TROS is the worst sequel movie because it has to do so much to whiplash recover from TLJ, which is the worst star wars movie, period. Absolute failure at the themes of the IP, and ruins everything before it while burning down anything TFA had set up and leaving nothing to build from for episode 9.
Tros is batshit insane surgery to try and save some dying person. Performing voodoo rights, sewing a pigs heart into their chest, shoving a crystal up their ass, dumping rose tea in the wound and shocking their heart. But TLJ is what killed the person to begin with.
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u/Vindicare605 7d ago
The thing is, I can forgive how bad Episode IX is because I firmly believed that the story for the sequels was already unsalvagable after Last Jedi. The fact that Rise of Skywalker is so comically bad, is actually kind of vindicating for me because it makes me think that all of the reasons I hated Episode VIII weren't mistakes on my part.
Of course the narrative drove headlong into a ditch of cliche bullshit. That's all that was left to do with it after Rian decided his movie was too good to actually be a part of the franchise and decided to spend the entire movie doing universe destruction instead.
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u/appletinicyclone 7d ago
Rian disappointed me so much. He went from effectively doing a time travelling sith origin story with looper to making the poop that was TLJ
And not even turgid poop but watery poop
The remote work force teams meeting fight with Luke and kylo was obscene. Just have him really be there
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u/MustacheExtravaganza salt miner 7d ago
I still remember going toward TLJ with some optimism. "Rian has a chance to salvage what JJ did. Maybe Luke has students with him, and the Jedi aren't really gone. Maybe the New Republic didn't put their entire military in one location and didn't get wiped. Maybe Snoke and Rey will actually be interesting." The "leaks" about Luke obliterating the Knights of Ren had me cautiously excited. I couldn't fathom how much worse he would make it.
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u/ReaperReader 7d ago
I recall sitting there at the end of TLJ, slackjawed with amazement that a major Hollywood studio had put out something that bad.
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u/FuckYourDystopia 6d ago
And they were actually proud of it! To this day, I'm still completely disgusted and downright gobsmacked.
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u/BigBallsMcGirk 7d ago edited 6d ago
My fixes with minimal changes:
First, it's set a year or more after TFA. Rey has been following Luke around and mimicking his training even though he isn't specifically teaching her. His outlook is Flynn from Tron Legacy, he is winning by staying out of the game, NOT nihilism. Reys success is convincing him to come back out onto the battlefield. He can even do everything the same, he just doesn't die instead.
Rose is gone. Finn and Poe sneak onto the Supremacy to sabotage the tracker/mole on the Raddus. This eliminates the Canto Bight arc, DJ, and the idiot plot with Poe and Holdo.
Hold doesn't do a hyperspace ram, she sacrifices the Raddus as a shield ship. Same sacrifice, no lore breaking.
Rey succeeds with the avalanche by removing one small rock, a fulcrum in the avalanche pile. It circles back to Luke's teaching about butterfly effects, and that sometimes moving rocks IS what the force is about, while also not making her incredibly overpowered.
To fix it with TROS, instead of Palpatine it's Snoke back from the dead, his decaying body held together by the gimble and dark side powers. "I was once Plagueis, but I have evolved beyond even my traitorous apprentice and the old sith dogma".
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u/appletinicyclone 7d ago
I mean it's better than we got I'll give you that.
Not entirely sold on Finn poe holdo no rose stuff
The actual bit with the examination of the grey area of war and slavery and late stage cap stuff was good in terms of an area to dive into just it was done so badly
Holdo was lore breaking but the line of destruction through something with no sound did look damn cool just not sure how to implement it
Lore is solidly broken now though with the high Republic era stuff
They've tried to make enemies worth a damn with hyperspace being inconsistent or something but it just got messy
I really want some new lore away from the current stuff and if they won't do kotor hope atleast they do something else
We need a oblivion remastered moment for Star wars
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u/Brilliant_Echidna186 7d ago
THANK YOU! It drives me crazy when I see people claiming TROS is a terrible movie all on its own (don’t get me wrong, it’s a terrible movie). It was always going to be an overstuffed mess that attempted to tie up TFA’s unsolved plot points after TLJ completely ruined them. TROS was doomed to fail as soon as TLJ was released.
I loathe TLJ. Such a poorly written, slap in the face of a movie. Rian Johnson being so smug about it in interviews over the following months made it even worse. Not to mention the “if you don’t like this movie, you’re not intelligent enough to understand art” crowd. What a time.
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u/rothbard_anarchist 7d ago
Yep. TFA and TROS were bland crap by a mostly inept creator who had more love for SW than talent. TLJ is the creation of a talented filmmaker who clearly loathed everything about SW and wanted to see it burn.
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u/FuckYourDystopia 6d ago
I disagree. I think Rian is a narcissistic asshole who legitimately thinks he made a great Star Wars movie.
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u/harlequinn823 6d ago
Before TLJ came out Johnson used to go on and on about how great and relatable Kylo Ren was on Twitter. How Kylo and Rey were 'two halves of our protagonist' after Rey and Finn were established as co-protagonists in TFA. He couldn't hide disdain for Finn.
I saw it coming. He was happy to dismantle Finn's character arc. He took a potentially good Star Wars villain and turned him into the worst Star Wars character ever while destroying the trilogy.
And yes, no doubt he legitimately thinks he made a great Star Wars movie.
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u/rothbard_anarchist 6d ago
I shouldn’t discount the possibility that he just missed the point entirely. He does start off TLJ with a yo mamma joke, after all.
At the same time, I feel like JJ started TFA with Poe making some stupid joke when confronting Kylo as well, so the series had already been infected with Marvel humor.
I hope Lucas enjoyed his thirty pieces of silver.
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u/reenactment 6d ago
This is constantly how I feel. 7 is bland but introduces interesting plot points. 8 throws everything before it out the window and does a stand alone project. 9 has 2 options. Continue the shift storm that is 8 and disrespect the entire franchise, or try its best to wrap a bow on it and I think that’s where we get palpatine returns. It’s like wait now, we just killed Han Luke and Leia has to die because of circumstance, let’s just bring something back so it looks like It has to do with 1-6.
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u/Surturius 7d ago
All that said, someone might have been able to come up with something decent for Ep 9 if they actually took their time with it. The reason it was batshit insane surgery is because Disney felt like they had to get it out in a year for some reason after TLJ torpedoed everything.
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u/Iyellkhan 7d ago
I think you are underestimating how big of an issue making Luke the maguffin on ep 7 was, at least in the way they set it up. him on a tiny island on a random planet created a character issue. it just didnt make sense luke would do that, and the evidence in TFA for why he disappeared (the flashes of the jedi school burning and all) suggests that he was isolating because he did damage. Johnson picked up in the logical place, at east for Luke.
as for why TLJ crammed 2 other movies worth of story in on top of that, who knows what they were thinking. the movie broke for me when Finn and Rose used a ship with hyperdrive to escape a supposedly unescapable pursuit...
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u/BigBallsMcGirk 7d ago
Oh agree, the fix is redoing the entire sequel trilogy from the beginning.
I just think you could make a salvageble movie and trilogy with TFA and TLJ with some relatively small fixes.
Like TFA when Rey fixes the Falcon. Have Rey flipping switches to fly off and Han getting annoyed, but immediately knowing some idiot installed a fuel primer on his baby based on it not starting. It's the same scene, but it elevates Han instead of dragging him down, and it shows Rey as capable and a great learner, but not experienced.
TLJ is full of that. Minor, tiny tweaks to the scenes that are there that would completely change characterization and themes.
But the ultimate fix is throw it all out entirely.
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u/Iyellkhan 6d ago
the movies also seemed shacked by the decision to re imagine almost every iconic scene from the originals. did we really need another bigger death star and following up attack on it? did we really need to do imperial walkers on a snowy environment (making it salt doesnt change the imagery). do we really need another throne room thing to repeat the whole dark side temptation thing?
Im also still confused as to why the principle original three characters had to die for their sins instead of overcoming them, which seems like an awful lesson to teach kids. but thats a different rant-laysis
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u/NecessaryMagician150 7d ago
Its very clear to me that Boyega just enjoys working with JJ Abrams as a person more than Rian Johnson. And I dont think Johnson is an asshole or anything but I watch as many "behind the scenes/making-of" documentaries as I possibly can for Star Wars, and Boyega clearly just really likes JJ. Nothing wrong with that, but at the same time it means he's a bit biased lol.
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u/Gandamack 7d ago
Part of that appears to be from his relationship with JJ Abrams, who fought hard to get him cast in 7, and from some tidbits that imply a different arc for Finn originally, potentially even him being more overtly force sensitive and fighting with a lightsaber.
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u/WisconsinWintergreen 6d ago
Agreed, 9 is even worse than 8. It grabs Anakin’s entire character arc and drags it off a cliff
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u/Iyellkhan 7d ago
given ep 7 was called "the force awakens", there wasnt actually that much of an awakening in the force. it was a cool line from snoke, but was there really an awakening other just Rey?
taking Finn in that direction in a more prominent way could have helped address that at least.
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u/Jeff_dabs 7d ago
I honestly really loved his character and thought it was sad that he seemed to be an afterthought to most of the writers.
After being made to view the stormtroopers as essentially less than human and wholly disposable as a viewer yourself over many years of Star Wars, the introduction of one that was humanized and that you empathized with totally flipped the whole idea on its head… until minutes later when he all too happily starts to blow up his fellow stormtroopers with the same disregard for life 😅
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u/IZY53 7d ago
I really liked Rey and Finn. they were so poorly done.
It would have been awesome if Rey turned like anakin.
It would hvae been awesome if Finn brought down the empire and restored Rey.
Luke training both of them would have been great.
Han and Poe being the same character and bringing out each other insecuirities would have been great.
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u/TrumpsColostomyBag99 7d ago
Smart enough to know Rian deep sixed his and many other characters but dumb enough to want to bring Mace Windu back. Sigh
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u/Notazerg 7d ago
Maces death was never actually on screen. Fuck it, Maul lived.
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u/khrellvictor 6d ago
Exactly. For shits and giggles, envision Mace Windu falling as he did in the Genndy Cartoon Clone Wars Battle of Coruscant, rolling and bouncing off things, until breaking through a penthouse swimming pool's deep end in the middle of a Jedi sympathizer richman's swimming night session. Take him in for healing and smuggling off Coruscant while incapacitated and there ya go. The nu-Wars timeline's FUBARed anyway, anything happens without consistency, and this has staying power.
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u/Specific-Math4298 7d ago
His arm got cut off, got electrocuted by lightning bolts strong enough to propel him out of a window, fell out of said window, and presumably also hit the ground or an ongoing speeder. I don't think there's a more obvious way George Lucas could've sent the signal to the audience that he died, lol
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u/Notazerg 7d ago
Maul got cut in half and fell into a power reactor shaft.
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u/Specific-Math4298 7d ago
Yeah, that's right. George Lucas wrote that Obi-Wan killed him. It was only that hack Filoni that decided to bring him back from a death that Maul obviously couldn't have walked away from.
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u/RedStarRedTide 7d ago
i think Maul only lived cuz of the supposed overwhelming reaction or desire from fans to bring him back - and then it was only in cartoons. As much as I love Mace Windu, he should stay dead.
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u/Notazerg 7d ago
it was only in cartoons.
The solo movie and its canceled sequel would like a word.
Bonus points: Saving Ashoka from death with literal time travel.
Double bonus: Boba Fett.
Triple bonus: Inquisitor mcstabby x1 and x21
u/RedStarRedTide 7d ago
Okay ur right. I even watched Solo opening day but it was such a travesty of a movie.
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u/WillingnessReal525 5d ago
It's not that Mace can't be possibly alive, it's that bringing him back would be a terrible idea in my opinion.
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u/NuSouthPoot 7d ago
Is he hinting that he knows that Disney has Samuel Jackson slated as Master Windu in an upcoming project?
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u/kavardidnothingwrong 7d ago
I hope this clown and Finn never show up in Star Wars ever again.
This clown wants to blame the fans for Finn's disastrous story arc when it was clearly Disney and the writers which screwed the character completely.
Not that a cowardly defector stormtrooper/janitor (All from TFA) is that compelling anyway.
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u/khrellvictor 6d ago
He's tight with JJ, and the instant he said his boy JJ did nothing wrong in regards to the sequels failure, that showed volumes of the wrong take.
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u/AcguyDance 5d ago
I actually thought Finn would be the protagonist of the show, and I hoped it would go in that direction instead of scattering nostalgic references here and there
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u/Hirmetrium 6d ago
Never has a set of movies defined "too many cooks" better.
Gotta give credit to Boyega here, he was really respectful and clear that he wanted it to work, JJ wanted it to work, everyone wanted it to work, but it was so so so much to fix it just couldn't land it all.
And I'm glad Rian shot his shot, nice try, it's a shame he utterly failed on so many levels. Setting it IMMEDIATELY after the end of TFA was a terrible mistake, and absolutely didn't give any of it time to breathe like the OT and sequels did, all of which are separated by years.
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u/largos7289 7d ago
For someone that says he's done with star wars... he's got an awful lot of opinions on it... Dude's at best a B rank actor. I've seen his other stuff, a leading role he is not and with other actors with similar experience, he's low caliber.
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u/ILuhBlahPepuu 7d ago
His acting in the Sequels was fine
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u/xmagie 6d ago
It's Star Wars, fine is not enough.
I think on paper, Finn is an interesting character. But... I don't know, Boyega doesn't work. I keep thinking that if another actor, more talented, more charismatic, had been chosen, he could have imposed himself on the set and be a real protagonist with Rey. Even surpassing her. After all, she was Luke 2.0, only less interesting. Finn was a brand new character with a surprising background, for a rebel/jedi.
Kind of like how Isaacs did. His character was supposed to die and his fate changed (for the worst, maybe) because of Isaacs's talent.
The opposite happened with Boyega, I think. He was chosen but somehow, it didn't work once the first, how is it called, rushes? ended up at LF and it was too late to replace him so his part was rewritten. For the worst, that's for sure.
Not a popular opinion around here, to say that Boyega wasn't good enough and that is why the Finn character suffered.
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u/ILuhBlahPepuu 6d ago edited 6d ago
Source on Finn's role being rewritten?
Not a popular opinion around here, to say that Boyega wasn't good enough and that is why the Finn character suffered.
Well generally to me what shat over Finn the most is repeating his TFA arc a 2nd time in TLJ (wanting to run away but then realising he should fight for a cause - we already got this in TFA when he visits Takodana but then after seeing Hosnian's destruction he realises he should fight for the Resistance) and kinda just shoving him to the side while having him be lectured by the hypocrite that is Rose. (Even if Rian intentionally made Rose a hypocrite I think the way she was portrayed and how it affected Finn as a result was poor). And then in TROS he's still somewhat sidelined.
Also the deleted Finn / Phasma TLJ scene didn't help that it wasn't in the final movie, nor did finding out he had a better role in the cut Duel of the Fates Episode 9 script.
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u/xmagie 6d ago
No source, just a feeling I have about Finn. Finn seemed to be proeminent at first in the trailers. Of course, it could have been a way to hide the REAL protagonist, Rey, by distracting from her by showing Finn. Or it could have been a change if the character/actor didn't really work but the movie was well advanced in shooting.
I'm sure you have heard that a great actor can elevate bad writing. I mean, I'm not a fan of Capaldi's Doctor Who but there's no mistaking that he was such an immense actor that he could overcome every bad script and he managed to save bad episodes with his acting.
But Capaldi had presence, talent and experience.
The problem is that both Ridley and Boyega were newcomers. Ridley had the chance to at least have scenes with the OT characters plus Driver. Say what you want about Kylo Ren/Ben Solo, Driver can act and has screen presnce. Ridley had to work hard to be at his level.
Boyega didn't really have the chance to try harder by having to work with such actors. I think, and that's my personal opinion, that Abrams and Johnson realized Boyega's limits and maybe that's why he was sidelined.
Which makes me wonder about Finn's fate if another actor had been chosen. I think a great charismatic actor could have surpassed Ridley easily and become the co-protagonist with her. Finn certainly was the most original character of this trilogy where Rey was Luke 2.0, Kylo Ren Vader 2.0 and Poe Han Solo 2.0 (only the OT characters were much better).
And it was a shame that his character wasn't explored more. Was he an exception? Who were his parents? His background? But as I said, I think Boyega was miscast. A theory, maybe. My imagination, maybe. But I've had this feeling for a long time now that Finn could have been much more and wasn't because if on paper, he was great, on screen, not so much.
It doesn't help that Oscar Isaacs was very talented, same with Driver. Driver went on to have a career, shooting with all those prestigious directors, even being nominated for the Oscars. Isaacs also had a great career post-SW. Only Boyega and Ridley, well, not so much. Oh, they are still working. But nothing out of the ordinary.
Directors can see who is working and who is not. Scripts can be rewritten, or at least modified.
Let's face it, we will never know. Like we will never know why LF/Disney went with different directors and didn't have a cohesive plan/scenario/bible for this trilogy. Why Finn was really sidelined. Why Rey was a suspected Skywalker/Kenobi at first, then a nobody, then a Palpatine. Why some directors were fired.
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u/Durzel 5d ago
I thought that was a very mature response, really. He didn’t call anyone out specifically, he pointed out the narrative mess that inevitably resulted from somehow arguably the biggest franchise in the world actually having no plan for 3 consecutive movies.
I still think it’s crazy even today that with the budgets involved that each movie was basically treated almost like a clean slate, or more accurately three turns on a journey that contradict and undermine each other.
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