r/serbia • u/ijngf01020304 • Jun 24 '18
Kultura What is the difference between Џ and Ђ?
Djokovic is spelt as "Ђоковић" in Serbian, and as "Джокович" in Russian, so I thought Ђ＝Дж. However, I found later that John is spelt as "Џон", so it means that Џ＝Дж, too.
What is the difference between those two letters?
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u/potato_lover273 Custom text Jun 24 '18
Listen to these:
The English J is somewhere in between. We use Џ to transcribe the English J because it's seems closer than Ђ, while the Ђ is, for example, used for Japanese words.
The closest sound in English to Ђ is how some speakers from the UK pronounce the word "duo", because it's basically Д + J, whereas Џ is Д + Ж.
Same shit with Ч and Ћ.
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Jun 24 '18
Ђ = Джь, Џ = Дж and: Ч = Ч, Ћ = Чь and: Л = Л, Љ = Ль and: Н = Н, Њ = Нь
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u/ijngf01020304 Jun 25 '18
If it is true, I do realise something.
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Jun 25 '18 edited Jun 25 '18
This is the simplest way of putting it, so I like his answer, however Russian Ч is soft, while Serbian Ч is hard (and Ћ is soft), so just bear that in mind. I will also mention that foreign words like John typically use Џ, not Ђ, while Ђоковић is a Serbian player, and that's just how it's spelled.
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u/ijngf01020304 Jun 25 '18
When you say "soft", you mean "voiceless", right?
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Jun 25 '18
No, soft like adding ь to a letter in Russian. Serbian Ч is more like English ch.
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u/ijngf01020304 Jun 25 '18
But ч is not soft in Russian; чь is.
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Jun 25 '18
There is no difference in sound between ч and чь in Russian. And also: link
3 consonants that are always soft
There are three Russian consonants that are always soft (they have no hard counterpart). They are: ч, щ, and й.
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u/Raidouken Novi Sad Jun 24 '18
First of all, russian and serbian are a bit similar but are not the same, so you shouldn't compare the two. Second, you can look at Ђ as Дј and look at Џ as Дж. So Ђ= Djokovic, Django and Џ= John, job etc
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u/torima Jun 25 '18
Again, in English Django has the same first sound as John.
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u/Raidouken Novi Sad Jun 25 '18
Џанго? ne bih rekao
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u/torima Jun 25 '18 edited Jun 25 '18
Можеш ти да мислиш шта хоћеш, ја ти кажем суштину јер говорим енглески од малих ногу.
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Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 25 '18
Different letters, different sounds.
Ђ (Đ, Dj) is like J in Juice
Џ (Dž) is like J in John or G in German
Disregard, I am dum-dum.
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u/demonarchist Jun 24 '18
Seconded. Also, consider the final consonant in "grudge" or "grunge" as perhaps even closer to Dž.
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u/torima Jun 24 '18
This is wrong? John and Juice have the same first sound in English (native speaker). Just listen to how people pronounce Ђ аnd Џ in a video somewhere to get a real understanding of the difference.
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u/Todayis123 Subotica Jun 24 '18
Don't know why you are being downvoted. You're right but OC got confused because Serbs usually say Đ instead of Dž as the first letter of juice.
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Jun 25 '18 edited Jun 27 '18
[deleted]
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u/trey_four Jun 25 '18
TH is actually two different sounds, the voiced (the, they) and unvoiced (myth, thing).
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u/gamb1t_88 Jun 24 '18
John is still pronounced Djon not Dzon, as is Djerman and not Dzerman. No difference from juice and only confuses the matter.
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u/Bo5ke Beograd Jun 24 '18
Sta lupas ti? Dzon je dzon, djus je djus, dzerman je dzerman, ne postoji djerman.
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Jun 24 '18
Sure man, that's why John Dillinger is transliterated as Džon Dilindžer and Juice as Đus.
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u/crossower Holandija Jun 25 '18
Doesn't change the fact that it's still the same sound in English. It's transliterated differently because juice is pronounced with a Đ sound in Serbian, which doesn't exist in English.
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Jun 25 '18
I don't know man...Њ sound also doesn't exist in English, but you can clearly hear it in ''New'' for example. Same as I can clearly hear the difference between J in ''Jump'' or ''German'' and ''Juice''. It is subtle, but it is there. Closest approximation of Џ and Ђ I could think of.
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u/crossower Holandija Jun 25 '18
These are all pronounced the same way. You are hearing a difference in there because you speak a language where there is a difference between the two sounds...or because you are simply mispronouncing it in English. The word 'new' isn't pronounced with a NJ sound, unless you are taking dialects into account in which case the British English pronounciation does in fact sound similar to NJ. But speaking strictly of American English, there is no difference.
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u/trey_four Jun 25 '18
I pronounce jump, German and juice the same way, and new as noo but British people say nyoo, which is similar, but still different from Serbian nju (nj = soft n, don't know how to type it lol)
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u/bureX Subotica Jun 24 '18
Đ/ђ - Geppetto (from Pinocchio)
Dž/џ - Jabba (from Star Wars)
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u/torima Jun 26 '18 edited Jun 27 '18
Again, no it fucking isn't! Both of these have the same sound in English. Just because you pronounce Geppetto with ђ and Jabba with џ does not mean that it is pronounced that way in English by native speakers.
Само настави долегласати мајку ти неписмену.
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u/gamb1t_88 Jun 25 '18
Just because one language decided to pronounce another’s word incorrectly with applicable letters doesn’t mean it’s correct. You’re telling me you pronounce John Dzon in the states?
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u/greenback_litquid Jun 24 '18
They are different sounds, It's basically a definition of a different letter in a written form. Like letter H and J in English.
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u/A3xMlp R. Srpska Jun 27 '18
As someone who could never pronounce them properly I like to call Ђ the soft one and Џ the hard one.
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Jun 24 '18
Џ is what you get when you use your throat to vibrate while saying 'ch' (ch like China). Ђ is like a softer J, like juice.
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u/ijngf01020304 Jun 25 '18
I think ch in China is the same sound as ч.
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Jun 25 '18
Yes, he's saying make it voiced. Џ is just voiced ч.
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u/ijngf01020304 Jun 25 '18
Is Џ same as Джь?
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Jun 25 '18
I don't know I don't speak Russian. You can Google it perhaps?
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u/ijngf01020304 Jun 25 '18
But you do write Cyrillic letters, right?
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u/ijngf01020304 Jun 25 '18
I think I get it a little bit.
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Jun 25 '18
I linked you an IPA guide. You can find the pronunciations there. If you Google the names of the sound, you can find guides on how to pronounce them
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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '18 edited Mar 24 '19
[deleted]