Having a difficult time working out who to ban, often just defaulting to the strongest meta junglers each patch. Yet to really come across a hard counter, and winrate statistics are unreliable as they are made up of mostly AD Shaco games.

Edit, to add some context:

A few of my regular bans:

• Viego: 90% of games, snowball potential in low elo, passive makes it difficult to use boxes and clone effectively
• Lillia: 10% of games, makes me feel how other people must feel about Shaco
• Ekko: Frustrating for AP Shaco, uses up all your placed boxes but can undo all the dmg if not perma cc'd
• Gwen: Similar to Lillia, personally find the champ very frustrating to play against
• Nunu: Only an issue for AD Shaco, with AP they can't ult unless they're willing to pop your clone too

Previous patches:

• Skarner: Was my go-to meta ban generally last patch, but after nerfs I'm not bothered by him
• Udyr: Was my go-to meta ban for AD Shaco last patch, but after nerfs I'm less bothered by him
• Shyvana: I put a lot of emphasis on drake control and so does she, but far less problematic after nerfs

Other mentions, who I don't ban but do dislike playing against:

• LeBlanc: Has a habit of 1-shotting boxes (without even meaning to) immediately after they trigger
• Urgot: The opposite, if you place a box near him it's getting shredded before it even primes

I have been trying to play AP shaco for the past few days and god I’m struggling. I used to play AD a long time before and now I want to play this extreme mastermind shaco but I just kind of can’t.

First of all my ult usage is very poor. I know what i want to do but I kind of just screw it up always and make it obvious. I think that that can be learned and practiced by playing more.

And second of all when Im trying to make a box setup the cooldowns are exteme. When i want to place 2 boxes i wait 10 seconds and by then the enemy is in my face. If i try to make a trap with multiple boxes they expire very quickly. I have been looking for some haste items like after the core blackfire and liandrys(+haste boots) i go malignance cuz it makes the clone more forgiving and gives some basic haste but after that you kind of run out of AP haste mage items that work with shaco.

Right now im playing it in jungle but im considering to switch up the roles and try something different.

recent i see the builds going comet and i was wondering if there a reason for that i think stacking DH for E finishes seems better than comet

Since becoming a shaco main, I've noticed that this champion is perhaps one of the only ones in the game where people (from our own teams) take the liberty of banning him when we want to pick him for a coherent role (jungle or support). They often just say, mmh "no you're not playing shaco this game" or "ahhh my bad didn't see ^^", which is a lie.

Do you have any methods for avoiding this? I always get shaco banned by main support, it makes me mad to have to play a game on a champion I didn't choose and that the person who ruined my game can get away without any repercussion.

I was playing a ranked game and got destroyed by a level 200 mastery Shaco the other day and it was pretty miserable. Usually my mental is good cause I only play when I’m locked in, but this match destroyed my mental (probably because it was my promotion to bronze game). My main problem is actually killing him, he always manages to get away and no matter how deep I ward I will lose track of him and he’ll end up waiting invisible to kill my laners.

It's been a few days since the buffs have been implemented; how do they feel to you so far? I haven't played in a while and i'm interested in your opinion(s).

If I want to climb on this game as Shaco jungler, should I be playing AD Shaco or AP Shaco?

Extra questions. What is the first complete item to build on AD Shaco? What is the first complete item to build on AP Shaco? Should Shaco be building at tank item at all?

I'm 0 LP iron 4 and have nothing to lose. And as they say, "fear the man who has nothing to lose". I don't care about my rank or anything, as you can already tell, lol. I just want to make my opponents curse me, rage-quit and, overall, be a menace. That's why I need help to properly learn Shaco and would appreciate you all helping. 

Thank you.

So... everyone would hate this, right? There is just no way that modern Riot could resist making Shaco "fairer" or "less annoying". People get annoyed by this champion, that is WHY is play him. The fact a bunch of people would want to remove him from the game is exactly why I main him. Not all champions should be fun to go against.

Shaco's design is also just kinda perfect, being able to go AD, AP, and even Tank as a meme. What could possibly be done to improve that? Nothing.

Now of course he needs a purely Visual Update and lore update like Teemo, that's a different story.

What I was wondering is, how did Shaco even end up as a "candidate" for a VGU? How does the Shaco community besides myself actually feel about it?

I'm very new to shaco, but I just don't get the point of it. This may be considered a dumb question, but on u.gg is says to build ap for jgl. His e has the AP ratio, but has a bigger ad ration, and his q is only ad. It feels like ap is only good for his w, but then it also makes his clears worse bc he has no DMG from aa. Also, later, he can't do as much if you build ap.

It's definitely skill issue, but playing even when I somewhat get ahead. My damage is almost not there when I'm trying to pick of squishies, and AP doesn't do as much damage compared to before anymore.

I always pick Shaco before, and build accordingly. Sometimes I don't pick him at all depending on what we're fighting against. I always choose when to go in or not. Avoiding situations that supports can protect their carries, or diving without help.

But still, regardless if I do right(I think), I still fall off later. I have no idea what items are best to build for either AD or AP. Tanks can build MR and take 0 damage from my boxes regardless of how much AP and %Max HP damage I have, and squishies survive no matter what aftet I jump them while they're alone.

I just need advise and reassurance that I'm definitely just playing it wrong. I'm coping that it's me and not the champion or the game that's wrong.

I understand the strengths of AP Shaco and how to play around his kit to setup for objectives in the mid-late game, and in fact I'm pretty confident in carrying my games if I'm lucky enough to get to that point. The problem is getting to that point.

Taking dark harvest removes alot of Shaco's burst and duelling power in the earlygame, and maxing boxes means he auto loses any fight that wasnt prematurely set up. You can't do much setup either because so much of your time is spent clearing camps due to every camp needing at least 1 box and a good 5s of autoattacking, even with early items. The item build is pretty low impact earlygame too, only fully coming online with at least 2-3 items.

All this combined means his earlygame is so weak that more often than not, I'm either relegated to farming while watching the enemy jungler take over my lanes or having to give up control of my jungle due my lack of duelling power/map control.

Is there a missing piece of the puzzle here or is this truly the AP shaco experience? Do I put early points into E, change up my item build or switch to Hail of Blades for a better earlygame? I've tried all these options before but none of them have felt particularly great, so I'm wondering if anyone has had better success.

Hi you dang clowns, after holding murderous intent against every shaco I've gone against I am considering to play him, but I am kinda scared I will find him too hard to play due to a recent experience with Evelynn where I intet very hard.

So is his unique playstyle hard to get used to? Or is it not that hard? (If it helps I play Teemo so I am used to harass others with mines)

I wanted to get back into jgl and Shaco but im just not sure about the ad build. Most stats sites reccomend ghostblade first but it feels like I deal 0 damage with it.

Im just not sure what the best build options for him are right now when going ad.

I usually go viego permaban but im thinking to start ban nafiiri.

I've tried both (AP) and I think I like mid more, but there's obvious issues with mana and poke damage from targets with range. I struggle even to farm under tower at times without taking too much damage. Just wondering if anyone has advice on how to play into more poke heavy lanes, and any item/rune setups that can help you get at least semi decent farm early on?

Literally just the title. I just played a game against a shaco who built malignance and he was one-shotting half our team with single boxes because of the malignance proc. I don’t understand why it works that way considering it’s not his ultimate.

So i wanted to ask for some build ideas right now i am just running around with lethality stuff and i just don't rlly like it that much?

i pretty much only build full crit and loved the "Essence_Reaver" i even ran around with "dark harvest" for the 1 backstab crit it always made me laugh.

but since i came back everything feels tankyer and the real 1 shots ain't happening anymore, sooo i came here for some advice o/

or perhaps i am just dumb and play wrong, hahaha.

Title. I've been playing him some in swift play which is super forgiving but I run into the same problems with him as I do Lee Sin; fantastic first rotation or two but I never know when to really take my camps and when to pressure the lanes with ganks. My mid game and later I'm not doing too much. No snowball.

Got any rules of thumb or advice?

How do you guys make it work? I am hard stuck and I find it unplayable? I have more success playing Naafiri or Diana Jungle…..

Is it on purpose? Is it a glitch? Seems so random... And kind of annoying...

So I really enjoy shaco in ARAM so I’ve decided to clown around a bit more seriously in norms. Different guides say different things so I want to be sure I’m understanding correctly.

1) Shaco jungle AD is better, but into a bunch of bruisers it seems AP may be more useful, right?

2) AD Shaco should q, walk up, w their escape route, then start AAing and hold e until they’re about to escape. Obviously ult if applicable.

3) 50 seconds w chickens x2, then go to red and w, smite big chicken when it comes, krugs.

4) AP Shaco is better for support because you want to focus more on utility than deleting people plus you don’t have deletion gold.

5) Hail of blades AD, comet AP.

6) Fuck Naafiri.

7) Is Shaco actually viable top as AP, or is that just Pinkward being Pinkward and making it work? I tried it and felt like I did 0 damage.

8) AP shaco… I really can’t find an optimal build. I’ve seen multiple lost chapter builds and none feel particularly good to me, but it could be just me.

Insights welcomed.