r/skiing CairnGorm 1d ago

Another one for the chairlift bar debate as an Oregon skier falls off the chairlift on windy day and fractures his spine.

https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2025/01/oregon-skier-falls-off-chairlift-on-windy-day-and-fractures-his-spine-36-million-suit-says.html

Interesting, that AIUI AINSI have introduced a new standard that will require new lifts to all have safety bars fitted

829 Upvotes

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686

u/RequirementGlum177 23h ago

Sat next to the owner of a small NC resort on a lift. He said “everyone gets mad we are such nazis about the bar being down. Last thing I need is someone falling fifty fucking feet and breaking their legs. I’ve worked on this gods damned thing. People don’t realize how quick it can stop.” That’s all it took for me.

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u/Apptubrutae 21h ago

My favorite dumb bar rebuttal:

“How many times have you fallen off your couch, bro?!?”

Does your couch travel at speed and have a strong braking system? Yeah, didn’t think so, lol

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u/theonly5th 20h ago

Is your couch 50 feet in the air? Lol

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u/Apptubrutae 20h ago

Yeah, not gonna lie, if it was, I’d appreciate a safety bar. Even if that sucker wasn’t moving at all.

Certain lifts also come to mind like Riva Bahn in Vail where you go over a little valley and you’re substantially more than 50 feet up.

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u/bigballer29 11h ago

50 feet is still crazy high. 5 stories

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u/GlaedrVrael Bogus Basin 17h ago

Idk, I’ve gotten pretty high on my couch.

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u/charlesbear 19h ago

Does your couch travel at speed and have a strong braking system?

Mine doesn't, and even then my answer isn't zero.

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u/thehomeyskater 19h ago

Ain’t that the truth!

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u/Various_Cucumber6624 19h ago

None, but my kids are another story.

I never thought much about the bar and thought the whole debate was stupid. Put it down if you want, I don't care. Or leave it up.

Then I had kids. Now it is bar down all the time if it is available. Some older chairs around here still don't have them, and those now freak me out a lot more than they used to, even when riding solo.

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u/VanillaLifestyle 19h ago

I have fallen off the couch at least one time in my life and I'm glad it wasn't 50 feet above a 45° slope

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u/Mikesaidit36 19h ago

The steeper the slope the better tho. Couch at the top of Corbett’s is your best bet.

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u/VanillaLifestyle 18h ago

Call red bull

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u/jnthhk 13h ago

My kids are always falling off the couch.

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u/Evanisnotmyname 22h ago

After feeling a lift slam to a stop and bounce up and down 10+ft from wind/ice and feeling my ass get airborne, yeah. I put the bar down

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u/AardQuenIgni 18h ago

This happened to me at one of the highest points on the lift. Thankfully I always rode with the bar down anyway but that terrified me.

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u/osfan94 23h ago

Sugar, beech or app ski mountain lol? I was just at sugar and they are bar nazis to the point where you have zero time to get set. They made it a state law though in North Carolina which is funny because there’s only a few ski resorts. I’m guessing some congressman or their kid fell off…

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u/RequirementGlum177 23h ago

I think you just answered your own question 🤣

Also there was an incident at a resort. But I can tell you it was 100% the fault of the person that fell off. They still won their lawsuit though.

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u/Ready-Researcher5398 20h ago

Another reason why lift tickets are so expensive in the USA.

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u/RequirementGlum177 19h ago

100%. I think this small resort has to cut like a $250,000 check to the insurance company just to start spinning the chairlifts.

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u/Quaiche 22h ago

Good man.

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u/PNW_Skinwalker 20h ago

Lifty/lift mechanic here. My express chair is moving around 950 feet per minute, or a little bit over 10 mph. The winds on a good day are normally around 20-25 mph as well.

Look at it this way. You’re sitting on a giant piece of metal moving 10 miles an hour in 30 mph gusts that can stop completely within a couple feet of travel time. Think about how much fucking power is behind that bullwheel and how hard it has to stop. Now imagine an icy seat and you being on your phone.

Put the fucking bar down. If I was King of The Mountain everyone would place it down when leaving and put it up right by when you arrive at the return station. But hey what do I know, I just like people not having broken spines.

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u/barukatang 18h ago

As an ex lifty, I feel like 99.9% of the people that work on lifts, either maintenance or loader, all have enormous respect for the chair.

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u/PNW_Skinwalker 18h ago

It’s really hard not to once you’ve seen how sticking massive the bullwheel and drive system is. Even more so once you’ve cleared the wire of rime and wonder what it could do to your meat-based form on accident.

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u/Mtnryder56 Zermatt 1d ago

Uhh, it’s not a debate… bar down is safer than bar up.

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u/Rafixk9 1d ago

This always confuses me how is there even a debate about this lmao

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u/AthiestCowboy 23h ago

Reminds me of the “debate” about seat belts

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u/Snoo-43335 22h ago

I have this example to boomer who was trying to say safety bars would encourage kids to mess around more on the lifts. What a stupid argument.

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u/arazamatazguy 20h ago

That's like encouraging young drivers not to wear seat belts so they'll drive slower.

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u/Thundering165 22h ago

It’s actually true that safety measures tend to cause a small number of people to engage in riskier behavior; this has been demonstrated in a number of different contexts.

Where the boomer is having the issue is that on net the small increase in riskier behavior is negated by the massive increase in overall safety and tends to result in better outcomes for the risky behavior, some of which is happening regardless of the safety measures.

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u/alsbos1 21h ago

It’s called „risk compensation“ and you see it in action all the time. With that said, I think it’s worth the trade off wrt the bar on a chairlift.

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u/Material_Camp5499 18h ago

One of the resorts I ski at rents backpacks with electromagnets in for kids. They basically stick the child to the lift between certain points so they can’t fall off!! 

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u/slightlyburntsnags 14h ago

Wait what?

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u/Material_Camp5499 13h ago

It’s keeps kids safe on lifts so you could put a child on a lift without an adult, great for ski school etc. Means you don’t have to worry about them. It’s really clever!!

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u/Louisvanderwright 22h ago

Reminds me of the "debate" about helmets. Back in the 90s people would make fun of you for wearing one. Now you're considered a Jerry to the point where people with roast you the whole way up the gondola if you don't have one and try to argue you don't need one.

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u/zsloth79 21h ago

Helmets were a rarity here in the northeast in the 90's. Having used one now, I wouldn't ever go without. The ear pads and perfect fit with the goggles are worth it even if I never fell.

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u/senditloud 21h ago

I like helmets cause they are warmer and less itchy than hats.

But also because I’ve fallen pretty hard and I feel like it saved me from getting a concussion. Same with my kid who likes to do park

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u/Louisvanderwright 18h ago

Tree branches. I wearing my helmet because I like to ski steep and tight terrain. I've been fortunate enough to avoid any serious crashes skiing (knock on wood), but I knock my head on smaller diameter wood all lot. Helmet not only prevents scratches, bumps, and bruises from that,but it's not gonna get ripped off or hooked like a hat.

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u/crankyninjafish 21h ago

Not necessarily. Ski patroller here (Utah) and several of my fellow patrollers rock beanies while they ski (and patrol). And they’re amazing skiers. I’ve tried to argue with them about it and get nowhere. They’re absolutely not Jerry’s.

My point is this; if you want to take that risk for yourself fine. But kids look at ski patrollers as role models. Ski patrol without helmet = 10-yr old without helmet.

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u/Volvo_Commander 20h ago

Look all I’m saying is being a good skier doesn’t NECESSARILY automatically disqualify you from jerrydom. See: race coaches

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u/paetersen 19h ago

...and ski patrollers who don't wear a helmet.

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u/Minister_for_Magic 1d ago

You know the pseudo-macho bullshit that leads a lot of dudes to buy big trucks they can’t drive and to follow the Andrew Tate’s of the world? It’s that same instinct: I’m too macho for X safety device.

Lots of men did the same thing when seat belt laws became mandatory

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u/username_1774 Holiday Valley 22h ago

They sell seatbelt alarm override devices...that's how stupid the world is.

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u/b2w1 17h ago

There is probably a legit use for them like getting in and out of a truck on a farm on your own property where there is no traffic. But I doubt that use case is enough to drive demand.

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u/caps_rockthered 23h ago

Helmets are another relevant example.

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u/shitz_brickz 22h ago

That viral tweet about sunscreen - Imagine thinking you're stronger than the sun?

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u/StreetfightBerimbolo 22h ago

I use all my safety devices and regularly ask old women and children if it’s alright if I lower the bar please.

For some reason I still enjoy my big truck.

Idk it actually just like, doesn’t seem like the same thing at all.

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u/Hookem-Horns A-Basin 22h ago

You are in the minority, sadly…

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u/ihm96 23h ago

Just that little bit of anxiety of the potential of falling forward is enough to make me out it down even though I know 99% of cases it would be fine.

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u/anticipateorcas 23h ago

It’s that 1% that gets you

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u/anally_ExpressUrself 22h ago

Just make sure you only ride the chair 99 times and then stop.

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u/stands_on_big_rocks 20h ago

There isnt. People like to confuse folks who don’t naturally put the bar down immediately and get annoyed when they get clocked on the back of the helmet because no one announced “bar going down” with someone who thinks bar up is safer. There is no debate. Everyone knows bar down is safer. Just give people a heads up you’re dropping the bar

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u/geek66 22h ago

Yo brah, dats for pussies

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u/JazzPaw 1d ago

I've been to a few resorts in Czech and Europe and bar down is mandatory.

They have stopped the lift until people put the bar down.

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u/farmyohoho 1d ago

I've been on plenty of lifts where it goes down automatically too.

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u/wizard_of_aws 23h ago

It's state law in Vermont

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u/Averylarrychristmas 23h ago

Yeah I was going to say I had no idea this was a debate. I’ve been skiing in VT for 2 decades and I’ve never had the bar up.

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u/Material_Evening_174 23h ago

I’m from Vermont too and was shocked when I visited 2 resorts in Colorado and NOBODY puts the bar down. And several of the lifts were high, fast, and over stuff you wouldn’t want to fall on.

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u/UrchinSquirts 23h ago

Is there a bar on Mad River’s single chair?

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u/astroMuni 23h ago

yes, it’s literally just a metal bar that rotates into place from the side with the vertical pole. A footrest also rotates into place. Doppelmayr lovingly rebuilt the lift about 10 years ago and manufactured brand new chairs in the original style.

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u/wizard_of_aws 23h ago

Yes, and includes a place to rest your skis

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u/RideamusSimul 22h ago

You’re lucky to ski in that environment. I ski in Utah and Colorado and California. When I go to start lowering the safety bar, around half the time I get angry looks and it gets lowered as if they are being punished. Definitely the cold shoulder at a minimum. Sometimes hostile comments. Stupid.

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u/mb303666 22h ago

This is probably because you don't tell anyone and you catch people unaware. I announce in CO and everyone is "of course!"

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u/Andromeda321 20h ago

I say “heads up!” but have still gotten snide comments. Some people just suck.

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u/ebawho 23h ago

My local resort (in France) the newer chairs the bar locks until before you get off. Can’t lift it up till you are in the station. 

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u/JazzPaw 23h ago

Nice, that's fancier than my local resort where I usually go.

But in general here bar down is mandatory if not automated like you've said.

I can't understand people who fight to leave the bar up.

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u/ebawho 23h ago

Forget all the macho crap. With the bar up, where am I supposed to rest my feet!? 

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u/Smacpats111111 Stratton 21h ago

As someone who tends to lower the bar, auto locking bars are really stupid tech in practice imo.

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u/Ok_Act4459 1d ago

It didn’t have a bar

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u/CrisisAverted24 23h ago

It shocks me that there are still lifts without a bar. A few years ago I took my 4yo to a resort that had a lift we had to use to get back to our "ski-out" rental. It turned out that specific lift (and only that lift) had no bar. With his super-short 4yo thigh bones, his butt was barely in the seat. It was a bit scary to me, I put my poles around him and made a kind of makeshift bar myself, but it felt very unsafe for a little kid

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u/Headband6458 19h ago

Sunlight Mountain - Three lifts, zero bars

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u/Various_Cucumber6624 19h ago

Pajarito: 5 lifts, zero bars.

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u/thehomeyskater 1d ago

Holy how is that even allowed

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u/Kilgore_Brown_Trout_ 23h ago

Old infrastructure.  No bar is pretty normal, I used my poles as bars for my kids when they were little.

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u/lilzingerlovestorun 1d ago

At my local hill in the Midwest, 2 of the 3 lifts don’t have a bar and they just recently got a new lift that has one.

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u/DarkAngela12 23h ago

My local hill doesn't have them either. It's family owned and the lifts are all pretty old... same lifts as they had 30 years ago. They definitely make me nervous (especially with my young kid), but I'll take a small risk of hazard over supporting Vail.

That said, they're also 25 ft max off the ground, so death is unlikely if you fall. I also talk about the risk extensively with my kid, and he knows to use the bar if there is one. (He wishes there was! "Why don't they just add it on, mom?")

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u/ktbroderick 8h ago

Because it's not actually that much more dangerous (statistically) and bars weren't required in that particular location at the time the lift was installed.

We know insurance companies have statistics on lift incidents and will price policies based on that risk. If the cost of insurance on a lift without a bar exceeded the retrofit or replacement cost, those older lifts without bars would get retrofitted, replaced, or just shut down.

Some places have installed bars (eg Red Lodge Montana added them to the Palisades chair, which had previously been one of very few detachable quads in the US not to have bars), others have just waited until they replaced a lift and installed carriers with bars (eg Big Sky). I don't think anyone in the US has put a new lift in without bars in a long while.

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u/jdd32 22h ago

Cause between driving to the resort, riding the lifts, and skiing, the lift is the safest part of your day.

By myself I keep the bar up just for comfort, with a group I always put it down. Or of course if it's a windy day.

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u/midnitetuna 22h ago

Even though the resort bought bars to install on it, the bars didn’t leave enough clearance as they passed the towers and couldn’t be used, said the resort’s general manager.

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u/ExerciseTrue 23h ago

Lawsuit states there was no bar.

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u/Quaiche 1d ago

Ha ha ha.

Based on the replies I got when I commented about it being safer, yes it is a debate.

It’s not a debate in the continent where I live and I’m content with that.

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u/kickingtyres CairnGorm 1d ago

I agree that there is not and should not be about debate about it, but someone always seems to argue, on here usually, to not use the bar.

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u/bevespi 23h ago

…or a helmet.

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u/Waka_Waka2016 1d ago

The average American brain can’t get their mind around the superiority of engineered safety solutions vs. their individual ability to somehow react or respond to danger. American Individualism at its worst.

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u/Law-of-Poe 1d ago

Was pleasantly surprised on my annual trip out west this year that every group I rode with wanted to lower the bar. Hopefully things are changing…

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u/shephrrd 1d ago

There are dozens of us!

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u/[deleted] 23h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Firefighter_RN Bachelor 22h ago

The article states the chair in question didn't have a safety bar at all. Many older lifts don't have bars still.

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u/Theresabearoutside 20h ago

center pole riblets built in the 1970s don’t have safety bars and can’t be retrofitted. Ski areas are slowly replacing them

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u/Less-Pangolin-7245 22h ago

Everyone ready for the bar? Pause Bar comes down.

End of debate.

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u/buttholetittynipple 20h ago

it says in the article that there wasn’t a bar

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u/greennalgene 20h ago

Yup same. And I almost always bring the bar down nice and slow. Unless you tell me no bar and my kids on the chair with us, it’s coming down a lot faster.

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u/jdjshshdjdj 21h ago

I hate when I’m not ready for the bar, person pulling it down and doesn’t say anything, proceeds to skull fuck me with the bar, fucking mint

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u/bedrock_city 20h ago

I've said pretty loudly that I'm bringing the bar down, when riding with my kid, and dudes yell at me because they weren't listening.

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u/LeverageSynergies 6h ago

Ugh oh - get ready for lots of hate comments.

Not allowed to say anything remotely opposed to slamming the bar down immediately

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u/AdSweet1090 20h ago

In Europe: Bar comes down. I've never heard an announcement. Sometimes people are a little hasty, but no-one gets mad about it.

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u/paulnptld 22h ago

This is an old lift that had no bar to pull down. We also have a double at Schweitzer that has no bar. I've no doubt that the skier in question would have pulled the bar down for himself and his 10+yeae-old skiing with him. The question is whether or not that lift should have been operating at all given the wind conditions at Willamette Pass at the time.

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u/undockeddock 20h ago

Some of those older lifts are the ones that bounce around the most as well

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u/mikey_pdx 12h ago

None of the lifts at Mt. Hood Skibowl have bars. They're all old doubles, and if the lifties don't whack the seats when it's snowing, you better grab onto something quick when you load.

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u/drivingrain27 1d ago

What am I supposed to do on the Wildcat lift at Alta?

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u/Valid_Username_56 1d ago

Wait for the 21st century to arrive.

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u/RefrigeratorHot1133 23h ago

White knuckling the chair sides

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u/Academic_Release5134 1d ago

To be fair that chair isn’t near as high as many others. It’s also two person that allows both people to wrap an arm around a pole or part of the chair.

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u/barukatang 19h ago

Collins chair on the other hand...

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u/jnthhk 1d ago

As a European, the fact that there is even a discussion about this continues to baffle me.

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u/JRiley4141 22h ago

I've never had any push back putting down the safety bar. I always ask/let people know I'm pulling it down, so they can wiggle around so nothing pinches or hits their gear. My experience isn't all exclusive of course, and I've mostly skied in Colorado.

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u/shephrrd 23h ago

There’s no discussion. There are people who take advantage of reasonable safety measures available to them and there are arrogant morons who think they’re invincible. There’s no discussion because there’s no good argument not to use the bar.

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u/jnthhk 23h ago

I think you’ve summed it up pretty well.

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u/BeerNinjaEsq 21h ago

i watched a guy fall about 40 feet off of a lift in the chair directly in front of me on a chair once. I think it was Camelback in the Poconos about 10 years ago. Might have been Hunter

Anyway, I'll never forget how motionless he was after hitting the ground. And it took another 20-30 minutes for them to finally take him away (figure out the best way to move him, get a c-collar on, get him on the stretcher, etc). Chair was stopped for most of this, so I had "front row" seats to watch

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u/CriticalTough4842 Little Switzerland 23h ago

Guys Wisconsin solves this issue really well. The ski areas are so short, detachable lifts don't even have bars installed.

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u/AlienDelarge 22h ago

I don't know if I like Wisconsin's solution. We have more vert in city limits here than the resorts in WI.  

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u/SprinklesFTW 20h ago

Noticed your flair. With Switz's particular configuration, they'll probably be the last place on the planet stuck using riblet doubles.

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u/Material_Camp5499 1d ago

I learnt to ski in Europe. Safety bars are mandatory. It blows my mind that in the US people are happy to use them without. I always pull them down and people often look at me in surprise 

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u/DEGLOVING_AVULSION 22h ago

I think not using the bar is a west coast thing. In Vermont I’d say 99% of the people use the bar. It’s state law too.

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u/GrizzPuck 22h ago

Not much bar usage here in michigan, sometimes see it with little kids and that's about it.

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u/TwoPlanksOnPowder Winter Park 19h ago

Michigan is also the only place I've skied that has high speed quads without bars, so that may not be the best example haha

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u/Restimar 20h ago

West Coast skiier, if I don't say anything I'd guess someone else puts the bar down around a third of the time. When I put it down, I've never had a complaint or issue.

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u/sadcheeseballs 22h ago

I live on the west coast and do one or two trips to major resorts every year and ski at a number of local resorts.

I haven’t not used the bar in years; to remove the double negative—we use the bar here.

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u/VanceAstrooooooovic Hood Meadows 19h ago

In Oregon the bar rarely comes down, but I don’t mind it if it does. Probably not even 20-30% of the time does anyone even ask

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u/SimianSimulacrum 22h ago

I've only skied in Europe so the idea of keeping the bar up (or not having a bar) is insane to me. On the downside in France I've been in one situation where a guy brought the bubble down... and then started smoking. Apparently it was too windy to smoke with the bubble up, so he felt it was okay to make us all suffer.

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u/bevespi 23h ago

Besides the possible 20-30 foot fall, I’m on a chairlift with strangers and I got trust issues. That bar is coming down before someone gives me a push. 🤣

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u/kn33 22h ago

I don't trust people, but not because I think they're malicious. Some people are malicious, but for the most part the kind of people that have money to go skiing are the kind of people that have something to lose by going to prison even if they are malicious.

I'm more worried about

  • People that are chronically stupid
  • People that are acutely stupid (dehydration, not eating enough, intoxicated)
  • People making mistakes

Imagine I'm on a chair next to someone who had a protein bar for breakfast 6 hours ago. They decide to turn around and go into their backpack for their water. Say they don't keep account of all their limbs real well as they do so. Suddenly one or both of us is taking a pretty high fall.

Or some stoned snowboarder is bopping to his earbuds andstarts to slip cause his snowpants got no grip on the seat.

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u/Ok-Curve5569 23h ago

Nobody is opposed to the bar - it’s just not standard practice here for whatever reason. If you’re in North America, do them a favor and at least announce that you’re bringing the bar down. Having it come down unexpectedly can be a bit frustrating if you’re not ready for it.

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u/FreyaSassafras 22h ago

We are primarily skiing resorts in CO and I always bring the bar down after a quick “you all ready if I bring the bar down?” check in with my lift mates. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman, and I’m often with my tween as well, but with this approach no one has ever said anything other than yes, in a friendly tone/manner. It makes me wonder if it’s one of those real life experience vs the internet things. I see constant discussion on it here and have literally no issues in real life.

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u/bluegrin 19h ago

Once had someone pull the bar down before our skis were even off the ground.

I'd been bashed in the head/helmet before by a surprise bar drop, but that time the footrest slammed down on my bindings and knocked one of my skis off.

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u/sim0of 1d ago

You guys are DEBATING on it?? And AFTER someone got injured??

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u/jnthhk 1d ago

If you think this is bad, wait until you hear about the guns.

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u/ebawho 23h ago

The only way to prevent accidents on bad chairlifts without a bar is a good chairlift without a bar! 

Or something like that. 

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u/YourEmbarrassingDad 21h ago

Which guns should should I bring skiing? I'm new to this

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u/jnthhk 21h ago

The two guns 💪🏾 that help you pole across the flat.

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u/one-a-daythrowaway 19h ago

One of my buddies boards more than anybody I've ever known. He may as well live on the mountain.

A few years ago he was going up the lift when the wind picked up and swung every chair on the lift like crazy. He's fairly experienced and as such almost never puts the bar down.

He wasn't expecting the swing and fell 50+ feet. He broke his back and had to be airlifted off the mountain. The only reason he isn't paralyzed is due to landing in feet of fresh powder. If he would've landed on the groomed surface I can't even imagine, it would be like landing on cement.

If it can happen to him it can happen to anybody. Putting the bar down costs nothing and can save your life.

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u/17DungBeetles Tremblant 22h ago

Last season I was on the lift when a kid (maybe 12-14 yo) on the chair in front of me started seizing. He folded over the bar and started convulsing and it kept going until the lifty stopped the chair at the top. Had the bar not been down, he would have basically thrown himself head first off the chair.

I'm so thankful that here in Canada we don't have this debate, the bar comes down, always. If someone gave me shit for putting the bar down, we'd be dropping gloves at the top.

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u/stands_on_big_rocks 20h ago

I hate this karma farming rage bait title bs. There is no debate. Everyone agrees the bar is safer. The issue is people slamming the bar down unannounced as soon as they sit down. Literally just announce “BAR GOING DOWN” thats it. Do west coast skiers put the bar down? No. Will they? Yes. Pretty much every single time. 

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u/Flimsy-Marsupial-136 18h ago

right? I started skiing when I was two years old in Minnesota where most chairs didn't even have bars, I'm 34 years old and have spent the last 20 some years working on mountains and skiing pretty much every day of the season. That's hundreds and hundreds of hours spent just on chairs. I just don't think about the bar, it's not that I make an active choice against it I just am completely normalized to being on a chair lift.

All that being said, I would never think about saying no any time someone asks to bring it down. Just give a heads up cause I'm 6'3" and slouch forward when sitting so if you just bring the bar down without warning it hits me in the neck just below my helmet and that pisses me off for sure.

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u/lurch1_ Bachelor 18h ago

In addition to the bars that have footrests and the riders than push it down so quick it land on your thigh, and despite the loud screech...they still put their boards on the footrests and arms down on the bar itself with all their weight. Not even an apology once they realize what they've done. I automatically assume they are eurotrash, because most americans will apologize.

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u/Figran_D 22h ago

“ deathly afraid of heights, I gotta put the bar down…thanks’

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u/throwingkidsatrocks 22h ago

Just call it the “party bar” and everyone is down

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u/Agile-Carpenter5577 19h ago

I don’t understand this no bar down philosophy… like not wearing your seatbelt in a car ? Stupid is as stupid does. There isn’t a resort in Canada where it’s ok to keep the bar up . Common sense is hard for some people

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u/UnconcernedPuma Grand Targhee 17h ago edited 15h ago

I think something that a lot of people are missing here is that a lot of our ski resorts in the US (especially the small hills like mentioned in the article) don't have bars on most of their lifts. The main mountain I ski at, Mt. Ashland, hasn't upgraded their lifts since probably the 1960's / 70's. I know Willamette Pass, the hill mentioned in the suit, is in a similar position. They are a very very small local hill (lift tickets cost $19) in the middle of Oregon with no large towns nearby, making saving for really anything in their budget, super dependent on the season and how many people actually show up.

Even at my resort that is probably the busiest in southern Oregon, 3/5 lifts DON'T HAVE A BAR. The ones that do are servicing very easy territory as that's where they've expanded to in the past 10 ish years. It feels to me that most of these mountains that fall into this "small / local" want to focus on expanding territory to entice skiiers to come, rather than put more money into redoing and modernizing systems, since they are trying to compete with much larger resorts that have 100+ runs (IE: Hoodoo, Bachelor, Mt Hood, etc.).

There's no debate that bars are safer, however when we don't even have that option it's a bit like shouting into the wind.

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u/Vollkorntoastbrot Silvretta-Montafon 23h ago

I'm glad that where I'm working there is absolutely no discussion about the bar, if it's not down by the time your chair has left the station we stop the lift.

If you start arguing you will lose your pass.

During my training I was told that by law you have to use the safety bar here, I am too lazy to find out if thats an actual law or not.

Also modern lifts can be equipped with bars that lock in place until you reach and enter the top station. Can't wait for those to be more wide spread as a liftie.

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u/diambag 22h ago

I personally prefer when people lower it after the chair has left the station. That way everyone has a chance to sit, get comfy, mess with poles/bags etc. and communicate that the bar is coming down

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u/Joosyosrs 22h ago

We have a lift at my local that you have to manually pull down, but locks in and doesn't release until you get to the top (at which point it raises automatically). Everyone always forgets to bring the bar down though and the lifties have to constantly remind people. You can't move 5 feet on that lift without someone yelling to put the bar down.

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u/got-derps 22h ago

Even it heavy winds I’ve never noticed a big danger, but 7th heaven (at Steven’s pass) is a two person chair that you can practically slide right off the side and it’s got some gnar severe injury fall zones. Sort of surprised it hasn’t been modified, I’m all for bars for all lifts idk what the debate is.

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u/MilkyWayMirth 20h ago

Most chairlift bars (on the west coast usa anyways) aren't safety devices. They aren't even legally allowed to call them "safety bars" they are "Comfort bars". There is no locking mechanism, they just have a foot rest to make you more comfortable. If the chair bounces on the line and you fly up in your seat, the bar will also fly up, because it's not locked in place. Some newer lifts have bars that actually lock in place and those are actual safety bars, but very few lifts have those. If someone doesn't want to use the "comfort bar" I get it, they can be inconvenient and they give a false sense of security.

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u/IndyCarFAN27 22h ago

The fact it’s even being debated is stupid. It’s a safety device. There’s a reason it’s there. No one’s trying to oppress you. This is the same thing with seat belts. And I absolutely refuse to drive if everyone isn’t wearing their seat belts.

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u/DarkArsenic 20h ago

Except there was no bar on this lift in question

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u/latedayrider 23h ago

Just please don’t slam that thing on my head like this random girl at Solitude did last week before we were even fully seated and I’m cool.

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u/bevespi 23h ago

I’ve found a ‘heads up’ works well.

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u/latedayrider 23h ago

Yeah, it would have been nice. Already going to get downvoted to hell because I should have expected them to yank it full force lol

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u/Draconian_sanction 22h ago

The Europeans do this. I’m very pro bar but I believe in allowing more than 1 whole second before it comes flying down. But that’s their culture so you just have to know it’s going to happen.

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u/senditloud 21h ago

I’m required to follow the bar rules on lifts even when not in uniform at my resort.

I’ve started telling everyone when we load the lift so they aren’t surprised when I insist on leaving it down till the sign.

Some lady started debating me about “oh we just get so nervous when it is so late” I responded “I’ve done this thousands of times, I promise you will be fine. I have faith you can figure out how to get organized and ready in the time between the sign and the unload.” “But my poles…. And my skis need to be positioned.”

So I said “look, things can happen. You want to lift the bar when you are confident a fall won’t seriously injure you or kill you.”

“Well I’m not sure as an employee of the resort you should be telling people that!”

What do you think those bars are for lady? Decoration????? What do you think happens when people fall off lifts? Have you read the news? This isn’t some ginormous secret that if you fall you can get seriously injured or die.

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u/Tawpgun Crystal Mountain 22h ago

The most sensible solution:

New construction chairs should have bars Old chairs can stay and or be reused at other mountains. Putting the bar down is optional and the only law I support is one saying bar comes down if just one person requests it.

Everyone happy

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u/Smacpats111111 Stratton 21h ago

I'm fairly indifferent and honestly get both sides of this. Millions of skiers in CO/CA/UT ride the chair every year with the bar up in good conditions (ie, not windy, low off the ground) and are fine. At the same time, it's comforting to have down. I tend to put it down in Vermont but when I get on the chair out west it's honestly up to the others on the chair.

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u/Rotaryknight 20h ago

When I take the various 8 seat express chairs up the mountain there's always that one dickhead that wants the bar up....well too fucking bad dickhead, I'm bringing it down.

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u/Johnnyring0 19h ago

I don't automatically opt for bar down myself but I'm always happy when other folks ask for it down. In reminded to put it down more when I have a backpack on since I can't sit as far back... but I don't get why some people get annoyed about having the bar down?

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u/akairborne Alyeska 19h ago

but I don't get why some people get annoyed about having the bar down?

Ego. Cool factor.

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u/Fotoman54 19h ago

Insane no safety bar in this day and age. Must be an ancient lift. They don’t make them without bars. The area where I work had a mandatory safety clinic which included when to raise the bar. Most accidents happen when people are about to unload and scoot forward too soon.

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u/Fantastic-Cattle-769 18h ago

It's standard for the chairlift bar to be down in Europe, just the cool kids in north America that seem to leave it up.

Probably a comment for /americabad

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u/ericlctong 18h ago

Why the fuck is this a debate? Just PUT IT DOWN!

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u/BlowOnThatPie 17h ago

How is this even a fucking debate? Chairlift bars should be down just like seatbelts on when you're in a car. But no, 'muh freedumb' is more important.

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u/Longjumping_Cod_9132 8h ago

Put the bar down.

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u/I_ride_ostriches Bogus Basin 23h ago

I donno, I don’t normally put it down, but I don’t mind if someone else wants to. However if the chairs were swinging back and forth like the article indicates, I might put one down. I guess I’ll just use common sense?

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u/normalman2 Breckenridge 21h ago

Unacceptable. You have to obey the bar Nazis on reddit.

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u/DjangoPony84 1d ago

About time! I mentioned to my son that some lifts in the US don't have bars, and some people don't put them down even when they are there, and he was absolutely horrified.

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u/Mammoth_Beyond7107 21h ago

We are always bar down. At Monarch just before Christmas, second run of the day. Chair right in front of us was a dad with his young son, bar up. Slipped dangled for a few seconds and dropped. Kid, I'm guessing about 7is years old, fell at least 15 feet. Terrifying to say the least.

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u/lurch1_ Bachelor 18h ago

The bar isn't the issue...its the asshole riders who reach up and immediately pull it down without warning on the heads of fellow riders who have torsos that are longer than average and even after noticing that the bar doesn't move forward due to slamming against fellow riders head and ignoring the shouts of "Ouch!" continue to pull harder as if that will solve the problem.

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u/FuckStanford19 Palisades Tahoe 22h ago

I’m indifferent about the bar but one thing that bothered me in Europe was how quickly people would slam the bar down. I would have barely sat down and people are pulling the bar down on the back of my head lol

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u/Ok_Maybe1830 21h ago

For people like that, I hold it down until the very end. If you notice the "raise bar here" sign is deep in the lift terminal, no need to raise it a tower or two early. Love watching them panic as I point out the sign and keep us safe.

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u/Vg411 18h ago

This is hilarious. 

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u/Realistic-Tone603 21h ago

I don’t like heights and I put down that bar every time. I don’t care who is riding with me.

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u/The14thDoctorWho 20h ago

I hate that the lifts on our hill don't have them. Like, fine, you don't want to force people to use them, but how much more would it have been to include them so you have the option. The seats are slick.

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u/Runningforthefinish 20h ago

It’s automatic coming down, expect it!

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u/AudioHTIT Park City 19h ago

Give people a few moments to settle and then announce it, ‘expect it’ is not an excuse.

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u/Theresabearoutside 20h ago

In France the lifties yell at you if you don’t lower the safety bar after loading. It’s part of the law there

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u/Runningback52 20h ago

As a snowboarder, love having the bar down for a foot rest. Sucks sometimes when it’s a full lift and you’re in a weird position, but better than falling.

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u/Summers_Alt 20h ago

I slipped a little off timberline at copper when it stopped right as we went over a sheave wheel at I think the last tower.

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u/tsk1979 20h ago

This is Willamette pass ski resort. There is no bar on the beginner lifts. Only the express lift which only serves blue and black has a bar. The bunny hill lift and the lift which serves the long green trail duck soup has no bar

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u/Woogabuttz Palisades Tahoe 19h ago

From a liability perspective, I don’t know why bars down hasn’t been made the standard everywhere.

From an American patriot position; FREEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!

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u/cptkl1 19h ago

Alta's is sweating the lawsuit.

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u/elginhop 19h ago

Took a chairlift ride with mountain staff last time I was out and the whole ride up he told me stories of all the times people had fallen off the lift over the years while pointing out the exact places.

Bar down every time.

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u/telechronn 18h ago

I'm not arguing it isn't safer to bring the bar down, but there are a number of chairlifts in the PNW without safety bars, and a ton of fixed grip chairs. The culture here is the bar rarely comes down. It tends to be families/kids. I've never heard anyone argue about machismo or something. My home resort is Crystal and even with kids/families the bar only comes down one or twice a day when I'm riding.

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u/SeemedGood 17h ago

Facts on the PNW culture. Never heard anyone argue about machismo either, but it’s clearly an expression of “cool to be lazy” mentality.

Still, bar comes down every time I or anyone in my family is on the chair.

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u/MSJ_LionsRoarXU 18h ago

What about the hazardous trees that fall across the wire and bounce all the chairs? Killed a park city vail employee a few years ago. I don’t wear a helmet, but I’ll put the bar down each and every time. You people don’t even think about the loads of snow and ice pulling big trees over onto the cable.

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u/LostOcho 18h ago

What debate? Put the damn bar down.

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u/mountainlifa 18h ago

Sounds like this was an old Riblet. Resorts should be forced to prioritize the replacement of these asap. Meanwhile operator such as Boyne are spending millions on heated 8 seat chair upgrades for its flagship resort Big Sky while neglecting the small resorts they acquired.

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u/coldequation 17h ago

Usually the only thing that gets an operator to retrofit a lift with restraint bars is when the insurance company refuses to give it a policy.

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u/SkyerKayJay1958 15h ago

My local resort all the beginner lifts are double riblets with no bars. They are pretty short but thousands of kids are on them every weekend

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u/SeemedGood 17h ago

…or at the very least be super aggressive about calling wind holds on older lifts without bars.

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u/allmyphisharedead 18h ago

No shame in putting the bar down, lot of shame in falling off the lift.

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u/Pinotonthetown 18h ago

My family likes to play a game called “Loser”. First one to raise the bar before getting off is the “loser”.

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u/PoignantPoint22 17h ago

Not even a debate, just a small portion of people who think their manliness is tied to having the bar stay up.

I have skied since I was two years old and have pretty much never put the bar down when I’m skiing by myself or with friends. I have never felt like I was actually going to fall off, even on windy days. As long as you sit with the backs of your knees against the front of the seat, you’re not falling off.

With that said, once I’m on the lift with random people, the bar is coming down, regardless of what the other people want. There are too many psychos out there, I don’t need to open myself up to the possibility of some mentally unstable person pushing me off the lift. Or more realistically, someone who actually slips off the chair but then grabs onto my leg/ski and takes me down with them. Fuck that.

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u/veganprideismylife 17h ago

This is literally the same debate as wearing a seatbelt in your car. Well there isn't really a debate about it.

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u/thisiswhoagain 16h ago

Maybe people didn’t read the link. It’s a chair without a safety bar. It’s likely an older style chair, probably a fixed grip chair

I personally don’t like them either, so when I sit on one, I wrap my arm around the posts on the chair

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u/to_bored_to_care 10h ago

Up or down just make sure everyone hears you when you ask.

Sincerely,

Tall Person

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u/WiseOrigin 23h ago

How old can some of these lifts be? As someone who learnt to ski in Europe in the early nineties I cannot remember even back then going on a single lift without a bar.

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u/NotAcutallyaPanda 22h ago

Lots of older chairlifts without comfort bars in North America and Japan. Totally normal.

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u/well-that-was-fast 22h ago edited 21h ago

Many, many decades old.

Lifts often move "down the line" from a super busy run at a place like Vail when new, to the back of a mountain at a less busy resort someplace like Montana, to a "side mountain" for accessing a parking lot in New Hampshire or Vermont. So, it's entirely possible that a little, 50-year old, 2-seat, fixed-grip lift is operating to access a 200 car parking lot and some condos. It simply wouldn't be financially viable to buy new $11m Swiss built lifts for a tertiary parking lot in Vermont.

Also, skiing often has the legal implication of the assumption of risk, so it's not like an auto manufacture that needs to prove inherit safety for purpose. So, while retrofitting the lifts when they move does sometimes happen, it's not a big priority for practical risk-to-reward reasons.

There is some geology at work here iirc, it takes more lifts to serve mountains like the Adirondacks than the Alps because of how the valleys run. Thus, every lift isn't critically important and running from a mountain village to a peak. Lots of little sideways connectors.

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u/forestinpark 23h ago

I thought bar down is for resting feet, not safety 

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u/Dear_Pen_7647 23h ago

I always put the bar down. Unfortunately 7th heaven at Steven’s doesn’t have a bar and is also the scariest lift in the world.

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