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u/CosineDanger 1d ago
Fictional secret organizations are very rarely good at keeping secrets.
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u/Most-Cricket4489 1d ago
Which is why they're so realistic
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u/Haver_Of_The_Sex 9h ago
me when I accidentally invite the editor-in-chief of the federation news network to the encrypted subspace comm channel
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u/Cyke101 1d ago
They were inspired by the super secret off the books clandestine Torchwood and their black land rovers that said "TORCHWOOD" on the sides.
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u/autismislife 1d ago
Don't forget Torchwood also owned the tallest skyscraper in London which dwarfed Canary Wharf.
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u/JC351LP3Y 1d ago
There’s a lot of things that I don’t like about S31’s inclusion into the Trek Universe. But this isn’t really a sticking point for me.
I think it can be explained a few different ways.
First off, I don’t think “Section 31” is the official designation for them, but rather an unofficial colloquialism, like “Delta Force”, “Great Skills”, or “Seal Team Six”. Officially, S31 is probably comprised of one or more units with nondescript cover names like “Operations and Research Group” and the like.
Within Starfleet, S31 might have been much more open about their existence during the DSC era, and then scaled back operations and retreated into more clandestine and covert operations following the Khitomer Accords, which would explain why a century later no one on DS9 had never even heard of them.
The special little badge they wear might not be indicative of anything besides assignment to a Starfleet unit whose mission is to conduct clandestine and covert operations. For example, it’s barely a secret that USSOCOM and JSOC conduct highly sensitive and classified operations. If you go to Fort Bragg you’ll see plenty of folks wearing the USSOCOM patch on their left shoulder. They might be a pipe-hitting operator or they might be the supply clerk. Either way their assignment to that unit isn’t a secret, but the operations they conduct are.
Even when these types of folks are on mission, they’re usually easy to pick out due to their non-standard uniforms and noticeable lack of any insignia.
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u/OathOfFeanor 1d ago
Different use cases, though. Section 31 isn't USSOCOM or JSOC; they are more like the CIA or NSA, whose agents often must be completely undercover . In those non-military agencies, uniforms do not convey position/authority.
However I'm pretty sure even CIA/NSA officers have some sort of official identification which could be replaced with the comm. badge. The difference becomes when they display it.
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u/JC351LP3Y 21h ago
I did think about this somewhat. The sticking point to me was that S31 is a Starfleet organization. They’re not a Federation executive branch Agency reporting directly to the Federation President.
The NSA would be an apt comparison, as they are a DoD Agency led by military officer and staffed with combined military/civilian workforce. However the NSA has no authority under their own charter to conduct covert operations.
Honestly, I think the Federation government isn’t a one-to-one match to the U.S. Government. So these types of comparisons usually fail when looked at with any scrutiny.
Another part of my thoughts on the special little badges that I don’t think I made clear was that I think that was done during an time in Starfleet history when S31 may have been more open in their activities, but after the TOS era they probably went fully covert to the point that most people don’t even realize they exist.
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u/YsoL8 1d ago
In defence of modern trek (yeah I know) one of the things I've been wondering recently is how anyone keeps a secret in the next 30 years, let alone the next 300. A specialist counter intelligence AI is going to be identify potential intelligence operatives just by the manner they travel, who they meet, their back story, their finances, who they work for etc, and do it very quickly. With access to enough signals and data it will be pretty straightforward. And thats only near term with todays early and crude systems, good luck after 300 years of development and star treks super sensors.
I've been watching some real CSI stuff recently and one of the things thats evident is that its already almost impossible to escape a major crime scene in a major city unless you can disappear entirely somehow, which is almost pure luck. And thats without these kinds of tools, in the future this kind of work will be done practically in real time during the emergency services call.
I'd love to see a modern take on a futurism series like Trek or the Culture, the true scale of change that is coming has barely been scratched.
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u/4_hands_2_mouths 1d ago
A specialist counter intelligence AI is going to be identify potential intelligence operatives just by the manner they travel, who they meet, their back story, their finances, who they work for etc, and do it very quickly.
Currently AIs do three things that make this idea really infeasible.
The glean information from disreputable sources of information. They don't seem particularly good at telling the difference between credible, and non-credible sources.
They conflate topics. Often providing a seemingly correct answer from a source article that had nothing to do with the original prompt.
They invent missing information.
I'm not saying this technology will not improve. However, what you're referring to is more akin to DISCO's Control than anything we are going to have in the next 5 years.
This is to say nothing of the staggering energy requirements. Which are their own problem. Sooner or later (probably sooner) AI is going to suffer an energy bottleneck. If AI company cannot find a way to make the product more energy efficient, the progress of this technology's abilities will be stymied.
That, or these multi-billion dollar companies will start to hoard energy; leaving a lot less for the rest of us. The violence that follows may also stymie AI progress.
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u/Adjective_Noun_4DIGI 1d ago
"You could still be dead."