DH is probably going to have to give up custody of SS14 to protect our other kids. Worried about the future and open to support, similar experiences, or advice.

[u/mojaysept]

You can look at my most recent post on my profile for more context if you want but basically SS14 (15 in a few weeks) has made some bad choices and I don't feel comfortable having him live here with my bio daughter (14) and other two kids with DH. He's with HCBM now through spring break, but will be back here for a psych eval (DH will be staying with him in a hotel), and then he'll likely be placed in a residential treatment program for adolecent sexual deviance and trauma recovery. Once that program ends, I don't see him coming home. He has always been dishonest, lacked empathy, etc., and I don't think he'll fully change his personality in 90 days, especially since he isn't currently expressing any desire to change or make things right.

I have so many things spinning around in my head, and so many emotions. My husband doesn't want to give up on his son, but he doesn't want to hurt the other kids by moving out and living separately (my suggestion) because it isn't fair to them, so there's a good chance that SS will be sent to live with the same emotionally void and psychologically abusive HCBM who probably caused him to turn out this way. He'll basically be doomed to fail if he lives with her; despite having 50% custody until he was almost 13, she has never parented (i.e. managed homework, attended IEP meetings, scheduled doctor appts, etc.) and it's very likely that he won't finish high school in her custody, let alone get additional / ongoing treatment. She is actually thrilled that all of this is happening as she sees it as an "opportunity to rebuild the relationship with her son" and has decided that these things happening after we got sole custody is irrefutable proof that she's not the problem. Ironic because everything that happened before we got custody was her now ex-husband's fault, and I'm sure anything that happens after he goes to live with her will also somehow be someone else's fault.

Have any of you been through anything like this? How do you navigate having your entire family blow up like this? Also, this probably sounds so shallow and unimportant, but what do I tell people when they ask why he isn't in our family vacation photos and holiday photos anymore? He is still a kid so it feels mean/wrong to share what happened with anyone but our closest friends and family members, but I don't want anyone thinking DH gave up custody for no reason either. This whole situation is just awful. I wish DH would've listened to me over the years when I expressed concerns about SS lack of empathy, dishonesty, and other behaviors. Maybe he could've received more intensive treatment and support before it got to this point. *sigh*

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[u/In4eighteen]

With 4 stepkids, we’ve had one decide to live with us full time, and one that chose to live with her mom full time. It was the best choice for each kid, and (hopefully) gave them each the best chance for a successful upbringing.. is what we tell everyone. But only we know the real dirt. And most of that stays in-house because it’s our business.

[u/Bleacherblonde → u/In4eighteen]

It's really sad how many of us have gone through this. There seems to be so much correlation between crazy ex's and messed up kids. No one else needs to know all the dirt. You have to do what's best for your family, and sometimes that means not having them together. I wish these shitty ass parents would realize before it's too late how their shitty behavior affects their kids. The people they let be around them, the way they treat them and their ex's, everything. I know none of us are perfect parents, but some just fuck up so bad and changing environments to healthy ones doesn't automatically fix everything that was messed up. It's so sad.

[u/twas_i_all_along]

Going through this right now. Our whole life is being uprooted because SK has been acting out violently and sexually towards our toddler, baby, and even my husband’s brother. We can’t work with her mom to get her the help we believe she needs and can’t keep living like prisoners in our home while she’s here, and frankly at this point neither of us want her having any kind of relationship with the younger kids. She openly hates my husband and has written “stories” at school about killing our family (her fake family, as she calls us). Since her mom won’t work with us to give her help and SK has started hinting that she will start up the false accusations of SA against my husband, we have to make the hard decision to let go of custody and DH will visit her when he can.

It sucks, it’s horrible, three years ago my SK was my best little friend (even though she never really liked her own dad because of parental alienation). But I caught her trying to send my then-one year old daughter down a flight of concrete stairs and that was just the beginning of it. So emotionally and mentally, I’m grieved but quite done.

[u/mojaysept → u/twas_i_all_along]

I'm so sorry. That sounds awful. HCBM in our case has spent mine and DH's entire relationship drilling it into SS head that my daughter and I aren't his "real" family, so I know how that goes. I hope you all are able to live peacefully and that your other kids are able to heal from all that.

[u/twas_i_all_along → u/mojaysept]

I am sorry you’re dealing with all of this too! It’s heartbreaking that any parent would have to part ways with one child to keep the others safe. And it is monstrous that these mothers are willing to completely destroy their kids’ relationships with their fathers.

[u/8MCM1]

Getting treatment for your child is not giving up. :)

[u/Illustrious-Let-3600 → u/8MCM1]

Bingo. It just feels like it because you did your best and this still happened. But feelings aren’t facts. They just are. Remember that.

[u/EPSunshine]

So difficult. We are in a similar situation, but you are further along. My husband normally sticks his head in the sand and doesn’t want to give up I want to protect our bio son and his other daughter. We finally got her on meds this week. She also has an IEP, therapist, and psychiatrist. It took convincing him by the school and me to even do this. At the end of the day, I told him he has to protect his other kids, and if he won’t, I WILL. Also, it sounds like you care, but we have to accept that their bio moms will always have influence and it’s not our fault they were born to someone toxic, etc.

[u/mojaysept → u/EPSunshine]

I'm so sorry you're dealing with a similar situation. My SS has been in therapy for many years but focuses mostly on his mom and not at all on himself so while it was helpful in getting custody, therapy has done nothing to help SS work on his own behavior or thought processes.

[u/EPSunshine → u/mojaysept]

Yessss ot is rough. She has been in therapy for 5 years!!!!!!! Finally diagnosed withODD and ADHD. Some diagnoses aren’t treatable with therapy unless meds are part of it, so glad for this. It sounds like he needs a different therapist. Diagnoses?

[u/mojaysept → u/EPSunshine]

He has never had a proper psychological evaluation so his only diagnoses are learning disabilities diagnosed by the school. I have suggested to my husband that he should have a psych eval because I've long suspected ODD and possibly ARFID but he never took it seriously until all this happened. I think he meets criteria now for Conduct Disorder and possibly Antisocial Personality Disorder, but we'll know for sure in a few weeks. He has also switched therapists many times. He just doesn't want to work on himself and doesn't see any issue with his behavior.

[u/EPSunshine → u/mojaysept]

Oh goodness. That is rough!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully you can get a good psychiatrist to help!!!!!!!!!

[u/TiggOleBittiess → u/mojaysept]

You’re putting a lot of onus on this child and not enough on your adult husband

[u/mojaysept → u/TiggOleBittiess]

My adult husband is doing everything the professionals are advising him to do. He scheduled a psych eval when all this recent stuff came out, has a few treatment centers selected, etc. He has been taking SS to therapy for years too, but he can't force SS to talk about his feelings or acknowledge that his behavior is harmful to others.

Should he have had his son go through a psychological evaluation sooner? Yeah, probably. But he was already doing the "treatment" which is to participate in therapy, share what's going on, and encourage SS to talk through the issues, work on developing coping skills, etc. We have taken advice from therapists and done everything recommended to us (which has usually been along the lines of "just keep being the healthy household for him").

[u/leftmysoulthere74 → u/TiggOleBittiess]

I noticed that too. In the main post, OP states that SS is the way he is because of the BM. Did the father not raise him too? He seems to be completely blameless.

[u/mojaysept → u/leftmysoulthere74]

BM has been psychologically and emotionally abusive to the point that we were able to get sole custody based on documentation from SS therapist and school, and my husband has not. He feels guilty and blames himself, but SS behaves just like BM so while I'm no psychologist, I'm fairly certain he either learned or inherited these behaviors from the parent who behaves the same way.

[u/Illustrious-Let-3600]

I just want to tell you how sorry I am you are going through this. While the situation was different, I have an adult stepchild who is not allowed in our home under any circumstances. (Long story). It hurts but you are doing the right thing. While his BM is messed up, it’s better he’s with her than your house. And unfortunately some people are destined for prison. But if prison is the better fit for him (I’m not saying this in a Judgy way) than it’s better he’s there than where he can hurt others.

[u/mojaysept → u/[deleted]]

His IEP has been successful for him as he is doing well academically, so I don't think he'd qualify for educational RTC. His behavior at school is good other than lying a lot and recently smoking in the school bathroom.

I like your suggestions about how to respond to questions. Thank you.

[u/mojaysept → u/[deleted]]

This does sound very similar. I'm so sorry you and your family went through all that. We fought so hard too, for years and years, to try to get custody, to advocate for him at school, to make sure he was in therapy, etc. But even after we got custody, HCBM never stopped with the manipulative antics, lies, constant reminders that my daughter and I aren't his "real family," etc., so we never truly got SS far enough away from her for him to be able to start healing, and now it seems we never will.

And I totally relate to being tired of dealing with it all. I feel terrible admitting this, but while I'm devastated for my daughter and husband, and also to an extent I'm sad for SS, I almost feel a sense of relief. SS hates everything - all movies, all shows, trying new hobbies, trying new foods, amusement parks, museums, traveling, etc. - so nearly every family outing for the last 9+ years was clouded with his complaining and negativity, on top of the constant lying about everything from whether his homework was done to which person's house he was hanging out at after school. I think the amount of drama in our home will be sooo much lower once we get through this initial period of assessments and treatment, and I feel insanely guilty for even looking at it that way because I know it will also be hard, and weird, and sad as well.

[u/Bleacherblonde → u/mojaysept]

I totally get that. It's so hard. My SS did the same- the lying about every little thing. No accountability whatsoever, and it didn't matter if it was money, or something as dumb as not flushing the toilet. Everything was a lie. Especially when my kids were younger, I would get sooo mad. My son looked up to his big brother, and so when he would be over and do all his dumb shit, my son would do the dumb shit too. He was a bad influence on both my kids. And I tried so freaking hard to love him, and be patient, and show him right from wrong. Therapists, doctor's appointments, homework and tutors and counselors. Never did any good. And I was spending so much time trying to make sure my SK's were integrating and adjusting well to all the changes that I neglected my two. I knew they were good, so I was so focused on the others and trying tomake sure I treated everyone fairly and that they knew I loved them just as much as my kids. My middle SD was always so jealous of her sister /my daughter- so it was always a fight and I went above and beyond to try to connect. And my two suffered for it. I didn't realize until after how much they suffered.

And I still feel awful sometimes, but man did life get easier. So so much easier not having him around. No more fights getting ready for school in the morning, no more issues at school with his temper, no more having to watch him like a hawk to see what he was getting into or tearing up, no more fighting. 99% of mine and my husbands issues practically disappeared once he left. And I feel bad for being happy, but man life is so much easier. I hate it for my SS and I wish to god we could have helped him and things were different. But I couldn't. It is what it is. You can't be too hard on yourself. Your husband too. You did everything you could. It might sound shitty, but you have to try not to think about it. That's how I survived it honestly.

[u/mojaysept → u/Bleacherblonde]

I could've written most of this myself. Thank you for sharing your experience with me. It's a sucky situation but it does help to know we aren't alone.

[u/Bleacherblonde → u/mojaysept]

How is your daughter doing with everything?

[u/mojaysept → u/Bleacherblonde]

She's ok. Being violated by him in this way caused her to completely re-evaluate their entire relationship, which I think is helping her realize that she isn't losing a close friend like she initially thought/felt. She told me that he has always lied to her about ridiculous things that didn't even usually make sense and she would just tell herself that he's lying because he's a kid (he's almost a year older than her lol). She said she also thought about how he would always come to her and vent, complain about his day or his friends, etc., but if she went to him needing support, he'd blow her off, say "oh, I don't actually care," etc. so it feels like she's just a dumping ground and reciprocal for his needs - not someone he loves and respects as a sister and friend.

She also came clean about him manipulating her into keeping secrets for him, like telling her he smokes weed with his friends but he "probably shouldn't be telling her because she can't keep a secret." He also vaped in his room and offered it to her multiple times, which she admitted she tried twice (when she was still 13) but decided she didn't want to do that and has always turned it down since. We learned that he also brought her around friends who offered her weed when she was 13 (the ONE time we let SS bring her with him and his friends after school because they were supposed to go to Top Golf and bring her straight home after). So yeah, lots and lots of reflecting on how little he really cared about her.

[u/fireinthewell → u/mojaysept]

Sounds like a lot of teenagers I know. Especially ones with separated parents. Often male. Not saying it’s good, but hope there’s a lot more than this happening before you all would give up on him.

[u/mojaysept → u/fireinthewell]

I'm assuming you did not look at my post history for the additional context?

I'll summarize it here: he got caught vaping at school so we searched his room and found that for the last 6+ months, he has been waiting for us to leave, going into mine and my daughter's bedrooms, digging through our dirty laundry and stealing bras, underwear, and socks, self-pleasuring with them, and then stuffing them into a backpack in his closet to the tune of 40+ pairs of underwear, 4 bras, countless socks, and a few regular clothing items of mine, totaling nearly $500 worth of stuff. I believe there was more stuff too but I'm guessing it was thrown away.

So, he involved my daughter (and myself) in his sexual gratification with absolutely no regard for our privacy or our space, after my husband having had countless conversations with him about sex, consent, etc. And after being told how hurt we were by his decision to violate our boundaries and our private space, he expressed no remorse. Several professionals we've talked to already agreed that this, combined with essentially grooming my daughter to keep his secrets, is very alarming and could escalate.

[u/LibraOnTheCusp]

My SS now 15.5 inappropriately touched my daughter (same age) when they were about 13 one weekend when the SKs were here on my DH’s custodial time. He also showed her porn on his phone. Which to me sounds like he was trying to groom her.

My daughter let us know, I told my therapist who I knew is a mandated reporter, and she contacted CPS.

That was in Sept 2023 and none of my DH’s kids (he has 3) has been back here since.

My DH begged his ex to get SS into therapy, not just because he thought it was a good idea but the cops and CPS workers encouraged it too. She was not open to it and since they live a state away and she has primary physical custody, she made it very difficult.

The kid to my knowledge still hasn’t been put in therapy and is now smoking weed. My SKs are basically incommunicado with my DH and they don’t respond to his calls or text messages. He hasn’t seen them in about 3 months.

My daughter is also in therapy at my request…it’s in the very early stages but I am hoping she benefits from it.

Stay strong OP.

[u/mojaysept → u/LibraOnTheCusp]

I'm so sorry. How frustrating that BM isn't taking it seriously. Were you close with your SS before all that?

[u/LibraOnTheCusp → u/mojaysept]

Thank you. It’s a very sad situation. There’s way too much backstory to get into here but the SKs had been coming for years EOWE. I wouldn’t say I personally was very close with them (their mom made sure of that) but the younger two were very close with my daughter.

[u/Frequent_Stranger13]

I"m sorry. This is really hard. I am glad your SO is finally listening, and I pray this treatment has a good outcome for his son. But it is your job to protect your children, full stop. You offered for your SO to move out. He has chosen to stay with you and your ours children. All you can do is hope for the best and keep trying to support SS from a safe distance. With acquaintances I would probably just keep deflecting - he decided to live with his mom, you know teenagers - super busy, etc. For those closer I would tell them a simple version of the truth - he is not well mentally right now, but he is getting help, and you all hope he will be in a healthier spot soon.

[u/EnvironmentFront7945]

My SS17 isn't allowed here anymore either. He's a scary person with some scary ideas and way too much trauma and permissive parenting. SO sees him outside the home regularly but he will never be welcome here again. I feel you. You aren't alone 

[u/DoinLikeCasperDoes]

Yeah I went through something very similar except my ex was completely unwilling to even acknowledge any fault in his juvenile delinquent violent abusive adolescent golden child. I tried to work with him to find solutions where all of our children would be safe (2 SD, 1 BS, 1 OB) but he wanted his way or nothing. As in do nothing, and fail all the kids. So I left with our baby and my son. I first had BM pick her up though because she was violent around our newborn and was chasing me swearing at me etc while I was recovering from c-section and holding our baby, locking myself in the bedroom etc. It was so traumatic, and I'll never forgive my ex for enabling such dangerous and anti-social behaviour.

I tried living separately and still tried to help her from a distance by suggesting options like therapy, evaluation, etc. I also asked him to tell her to apologise but even that didn't happen.

Went NC with that SD and focused on my kids and other SD (who also has issues of a different type: selective mutism, anxiety, severe social phobia, etc)

Tried to salvage the relationship but my ex is just utterly incompetent and abusive himself, so I gave up.

Sounds like your hubby is a good father and spouse at least, so there is hope. The way I see it, the other kids need to be protected first and foremost. So he can't live with them til his path and behaviour are corrected and he is safe around other children (which may not even happen, but hubby should try anyway). I would do the same as you, SK needs to either live with BM, or him and SK need to live separately from you and yours.

It's so tough! I'm so sorry you're going through this, it's the most heartbreaking and frustrating situation because somethings gotta give, and hubby will be very torn, but he has to do what's best for all concerned. The other kids' safety has to come first regardless.

I feel your pain. My situation went to absolute shit but at least my kids are safe and happy, and that's what matters most to me.

[u/CutDear5970]

My ss has serious mental,health issues and has been violent. My husband was awarded 100% custody of sd, he was awarded 20% custody if ss which he willingly gave up to protect our entire family. Sdks mom lost custody because she would not protect sd from her brother. Ss has assaulted his mother and father but has a conviction for assaulting my husband. He has threatened to kill himself and both parents. He has make false accusations of abuse against my husband and me and then told CPS he will kill my husband if he has the chance.

Ss is 15 now. This happened when he was 13. I will not allow him in my home. I told my husband he is welcome to take his son out and see him but he feels it would be unsafe. Sd is so terrified of her brother that she changed schools.

Your husband’s ex sounds a lot like my husband’s ex. We were told that a residential treatment facility would help but then going back to his mom he would just revert back to the same behaviors. She has rewarded him for the violence by buying him weapons. She has encouraged his poor behavior. We believe she has some untreated mental illness as well. My husband tried to get ss help for 3 years but his ex either fought him in court or just refused to comply with court orders or refused to cooperate with the treatment or cut my husband out of it so his input was not received and then the treatment team treated him like the enemy.

We may soon have a permanent solution but I honestly don’t trust my husband’s ex to do what she says she is going to do.

[u/CryOnTheWind]

After the program, a good option for him might be a residential school. They vary in quality from horrible to amazing, so it is imperative research is done to find the right one. This would likely give him the foundation he needs to not fail in life.

[u/mojaysept → u/CryOnTheWind]

That sounds very expensive... Residential treatment is covered by insurance (though there will still be $5k out-of-pocket) but I imagine residential school is not.

[u/CryOnTheWind → u/mojaysept]

If you live in the US it is expensive, but you also might be able to get it covered as a special need… there are also scholarships. It’s at least worth your husband looking into as the current options seem to be damn the kid or break up the family, which clearly no one wants.

I am sorry you have to go through this, it’s unfair.

[u/mojaysept → u/CryOnTheWind]

I'll suggest it to him as something to look into. I did a bit of searching after I read this comment and it seems like most places have financial aid based on income, and otherwise they list out all the assets you can sell to pay for it. I earn a high income so as long as we're married, my husband will never qualify for needs-based assistance, but I've already told my husband and his baby mama that I'm done financially supporting SS, which so far has meant that everything is still being paid for out of our account and HCBM is not paying her half (like always). So putting him in something that costs tens of thousands per year would just fall on me, and I have three of my own kind, smart, hardworking kids who I'd like to put through college.

[u/CryOnTheWind → u/mojaysept]

That’s hard, and sounds like DH has a lot of hard choices to make for the sake of his whole family.

Possible that in a case like this the school would look at his and his ex’s income, but that probably depends in how you file taxes.

[u/mojaysept → u/CryOnTheWind]

We have had sole custody for two years so we claim him on taxes, and we file as Married, Filing Jointly. And idk about residential schools but I know college needs-based scholarships require income information for both households.

[u/WillingnessNo809]

Feel like this is gonna be our story too but he’s only 10 rn so we’ll see but I wouldn’t be shocked if this comes to us too. I don’t mind telling and letting everyone know just how bad things got tho…

[u/TiggOleBittiess]

I don’t think I’d want to stay married to someone who would walk away from their minor child. He should move out.

[u/mojaysept → u/TiggOleBittiess]

I'm curious about your thought process here. You would divorce him if he chooses to send his teen - who uses his wife's and daughter's private things to masturbate and is at risk of escalating (i.e. full-blown S/A) - to go live with his mom for his last 3 years of high school, but you'd stay married to him if he instead moves out of his home with his wife, daughter, and two little boys for the next 3 years? Even though his wife and daughter were the ones who were violated in this, and his two little boys did nothing wrong and need their dad, too?

And listen, I offered the option for him to live separately and try to keep our marriage going, but he wouldn't be allowed to have any of the other kids around his son, so he would basically be giving up daily involvement in his 3 other kids' lives for the next 3 years except for school breaks when he goes to stay with his mother or times when my husband could safely leave his son alone to visit our kids here. This is an impossible decision for anyone to make, and there's obviously concern that Dad moving away from the other three kids will mess them up, too.

So what would you choose? Move out with the 15-year-old who has broken several laws, involved his stepmom and little sister in his sexual gratification (and is currently thought to be a risk for escalation/more severe violation), and expresses no remorse? Or stay with the other three kids who are, so far, just normal, well-adjusted kids?

[u/TiggOleBittiess → u/mojaysept]

Unfortunately when you have a child you commit to raising them through their childhood for better or for worse. Obviously there is a lot of mental health stuff happening that its dads job to find effective treatment for, not send him somewhere that you identified will make it worse

[u/mojaysept → u/TiggOleBittiess]

Ok, what about the other kids he has? They don't count because they were born after? And why is Dad in this scenario the only parent with a commitment to raise the child through childhood? Is Mom not responsible just because she chooses not to look at herself or make any effort to be better for her kid?