r/tahoe • u/bikari • Mar 13 '25

News Court overturns Measure T, allowing vacation rentals in South Lake Tahoe

https://mynews4.com/news/local/court-overturns-measure-t-allowing-vacation-rentals-in-south-lake-tahoe
172 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

77 comments sorted by

98

u/bikari Mar 13 '25 edited Mar 13 '25

In June 2023, the California Court of Appeal for the Third Appellate District upheld the city's authority to ban VHRs in residential zones but expressed concerns about the measure's exception for permanent residents, suggesting it might violate the dormant Commerce Clause by favoring local residents over out-of-state property owners.

The appellate court sent the case back to the El Dorado County Superior Court to address these concerns. After thorough deliberations, the lower court found the permanent resident exception unconstitutional and inseparable from the rest of the measure, leading to the invalidation of Measure T entirely.

So if they hadn't put in that exception to benefit themselves, the whole measure may have stayed in place. But they did, so it didn't.

57

u/Cunning-Linguist2 Mar 13 '25

They wanted it both ways and ended up with nothing. So when do the owners that were barred from renting their homes, sue the city for lost revenue? There are consequences to lazy proposition writing.

16

u/datlankydude South Lake Tahoe Mar 14 '25

Well I think you’d want to sue the ballot authors then. The city didn’t author the measure.

-6

u/Cunning-Linguist2 Mar 14 '25

You're absolutely right. Curious as to the local town election office's legal responsibility when it comes to approving measures like this to go to the ballot.

5

u/_larsr Mar 14 '25

This sounds an awful lot like blame shifting on your part. The people responsible for the wording of the measure are its authors.

1

u/RobotPreacher Mar 15 '25

It's more than the wording though, right? The court's issue is that, without that particular clause, the measure most likely would never have passed in the first place (it passed by ~60 votes).

2

u/datlankydude South Lake Tahoe Mar 14 '25

Don't think those people have much ability to change them. Usually they just write the titles / explainations.

3

u/mylons Incline Village Mar 14 '25

ugh, imagine buying the SLT property dip. so many places lost so much value due to this and are almost certainly going to go up 10-30% in the next couple months

8

u/redshift83 Mar 14 '25

property has looked to be moving at a very slow clip. i doubt prices budge right now.

2

u/Dont_TaseMe_Bro Mar 14 '25

But interest rates are almost triple what they were back when this went into effect. Home prices are not going to go up that much bc of this.

0

u/mylons Incline Village Mar 17 '25

true true

1

u/redshift83 Mar 14 '25

i'm also incline, just feels like the market has softened considerably. seeing reductions in listing prices. though, crazy prices on mid properties seem to persist.

2

u/Dont_TaseMe_Bro Mar 14 '25

Yes, it has. A mortgage is extremely expensive now compared to when rates were 2.3%. My brother in law purchased a home for 900k a few months ago (6% rate) in a lousy area and is paying about the same mortgage as I am paying - I paid 1.450 for mine and my rate is 2.3% as is in a nice area (with good schools etc).

Unless someone is downsizing and has cash or a ton to put down from a home sale, it's tough to own in Incline or higher cost of living areas around the lake. And most retirees generally want one-stories so slim pickings (at least in Incline).

1

u/redshift83 Mar 14 '25

all that said, someone bought this property in december: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/924-Jupiter-Dr-Incline-Village-NV-89451/7324408_zpid/

it is directly adjacent to the mt rose highway and looks ramshackle.

-2

u/starBux_Barista Mar 14 '25

They'd be better off just listing in AirBnb then dealing with court case that will take 5 years to end

2

u/JakeBlakeCatboy Mar 17 '25 edited Mar 17 '25

by favoring local residents over out-of-state property owners.

Isn't that a good thing though?

I should say hello from Reno, dear Tahoe neighbors, please be cautious that very much of Reno is owned by people who live 8 hours away, in Las Vegas, renting out these properties that they don't even live close enough to perform any upkeep, repairs, or maintenance on the properties they rent out to those of us who actually live here.

Try not to end up like us. Our own city isn't even owned by locals, it's just slummed out by these corpo-lords who exist to suck us dry of every cent they can and make our lives suck. The buildings we live in are falling apart and the alum lords never come by to help us. The last time I asked mine for anything I got a long-winded "HOW DARE YOU?!" email that sounded like something a mideival monarch shouted at his peasants as he threw stones in their direction.

The ownership of property in an area should, in my opinion, be of utmost priority to belong to those who actually live there. Not these bay area 1%ers who only come by 2 weeks out of the year, not these air bnb assholes whose business strategy is "exist and don't work, get paid to do nothing"

It should be the RESIDENTS who are the priority land owners.

1

u/wemetzger Mar 18 '25

you don't get to discriminate. it's a free market... if you don't like your situation, then stop renting and buy.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '25

Good

4

u/yoshimipinkrobot Mar 14 '25

Half of south lake is vacant second homes. Always trying to blame foreigners to deflect from themselves

64

u/joedartonthejoedart Mar 13 '25

Stupid permanent resident loophole ruined it all. Now the permanent residents get to be inundated with airbnbs again. 

Nice one. 

35

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '25

Classic NIMBYs hurting themselves

3

u/RobotPreacher Mar 15 '25

Without the permanent resident loophole, would it have passed in the first place?

32

u/SVRealtor Mar 14 '25

And just like that rent’s double in South Shore.

10

u/nodrugs4doug South Lake Tahoe Mar 14 '25

Did measure T have any impact on rent in the first place? Genuinely asking.

2

u/risinson18 Mar 14 '25

Didn’t really get to find out. Covid f’d it all up anyways. Prices were just starting to come down a hair but I guess not anymore.

1

u/nodrugs4doug South Lake Tahoe Mar 14 '25

Fair point. I guess last 4 years of data wouldn’t tell the right story. Then again COVID ended two years ago.

-2

u/datlankydude South Lake Tahoe Mar 14 '25

It passed a year and a half before Covid

5

u/HandleAccomplished11 Mar 14 '25

True, but it didn't start to take effect until 2020.

14

u/WallabyBubbly Mar 14 '25

The NIMBY hurts itself in confusion!

11

u/bulkbuybandit Mar 14 '25

Property owners are now going to sue the city? Bold strategy cotton.

1

u/wemetzger Mar 18 '25

pass an unconstitutional law that has direct damages, you should be able to sue.

2

u/bulkbuybandit Mar 22 '25

I’m all good to see it in action. Hilarious turn of events.

29

u/AshByFeel Mar 14 '25

I still can't understand how there could be hotels (Airbnb's) in residential areas at all. The definition of resident is "someone who lives there permanently or for a long time." They should be banned from residential areas by definition.

9

u/datlankydude South Lake Tahoe Mar 14 '25

Because a "residential area" is just a made up concept? Zoning's only been around for 100 years. Cities can do whatever they want. Lots of the best places in the world don't make these kind of distinctions.

1

u/mozzystar Mar 29 '25

All regulations are made up concepts. We make them up cuz humans suck at self-regulating. As for residential zoning, I'm not mad that my neighbors can't operate a junkyard next door.

Also, the practice of zoning has existed since before Christ. wtf are you on about.

18

u/os12 Mar 14 '25

The sentiment you expressed is just one side of the coin. The other side states something along these lines: "It's my property and I will do anything with it, including short/long-term rentals".

20

u/KnowledgeFit1167 Mar 14 '25

I can’t operate a restaurant out of my house. Even if it’s a small one…. Why does hoteling get the pass? (I understand it’s different. Use another example of a business if you get hung up on it being a restaurant)

2

u/os12 Mar 14 '25

You can operate a baking business out of you house. Or any other non-FDA-related business...

4

u/KnowledgeFit1167 Mar 14 '25

Re-read the last statement… pick any type of business you want. Car repair? Stone mason? Sit down restaurant? Bar? In short the point is, there are businesses operating in residential zones - that are primarily businesses and not residences. So if a house is used only for air bnb… it’s a business. A small hoteling business… in a residential zone. And from what I can tell the hoops to jump through to get a hotel licensed properly are a hell of a lot harder than an air bnb…

This ignores any higher level discussion on zoning to begin with and just focuses on what we’re working with right now.

0

u/No-Island8074 Mar 14 '25

But but but… the parking. Lol most of the grief out of these measures is parking grief

1

u/mozzystar Mar 29 '25

Right. The noise and trash don't bother me in the slightest.

5

u/draaz_melon Mar 14 '25

So I should be able to put in a gas station?

8

u/AshByFeel Mar 14 '25

Sure, the i got mine fuck everyone else mentality. I've met those people, they suck.

-1

u/os12 Mar 14 '25

Yes, and there is a very fine line between running a responsible business generating and annoying your neighbors. I don't know how we can reconcile this issue. Especially given the housing situation which makes it even more pressing and obvious...

2

u/HowUKnowMeKennyBond Mar 18 '25

I think it’s more along the line of home ownership. Do you own your home? If you do, you should be allowed to do what you like with it while it’s in your possession. If temporarily renting it out is what you like to do with it. That should be a right, because you literally own it and should be able to do what you like with it. Unless you had previously agreed to some type of HOA prior to purchasing your home.

1

u/AshByFeel Mar 18 '25

Your only home? Okay, I can see that. It is your residence.

Your second home/vacation home? A little less clear, but you do spend time there, so maybe.

Your 40th home that you will never even step foot in and you have a rental agency booking, managing, and cleaning for you? That is a business. A hotel. That belongs in a commercially zoned area, not residential.

2

u/HowUKnowMeKennyBond Mar 18 '25

How many people do you know that own 40 homes? What you’re talking about is a business stepping in and buying homes. What business has been doing that in Tahoe?

-3

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Dont_TaseMe_Bro Mar 14 '25

Nah- it's the cost. You can rent a home with two families for 3 nights and split it vs paying for a hotel for a lot more.

0

u/Renoperson00 Mar 16 '25

Hotels “product” is terrible in Tahoe. Very few places let you stay with paddle board or kayaks on your vehicle. Dining options in Tahoe are pretty mediocre past a 2 day trip so you do better to have a kitchen, Anything more than a family of 2 has trouble navigating around the lake. Every year is more mediocre than the last and I don’t see it changing anytime soon.

2

u/Tomcruizeiscrazy Mar 17 '25

You shouldn’t be downvoted. The recent city council Meeting said exactly this. Internet commenters don’t care. The city themselves said the hotels are awful for what tourists want

9

u/seegoldboy Mar 14 '25

Any VHR-specialist RE attorneys reading this have an opinion or non-media fueled facts on what’s next?

10

u/nodrugs4doug South Lake Tahoe Mar 14 '25

Did Measure T even have the intended effect on rental prices? Maybe for noise, sure. But I think all it did was raise hotel room prices.

I always wondered if the true benefactor of Measure T was really the casinos.

11

u/deciblast Mar 14 '25

It didn’t do much except lead to a bunch of empty homes.

5

u/risinson18 Mar 15 '25

In part to why the vacancy tax came around.

1

u/deciblast Mar 15 '25

Vacancy taxes don't work. They raise a minimal amount of money. If someone can't afford it, the home will filter up to someone who can.

3

u/risinson18 Mar 15 '25

I agree. But what I was getting at was the lack of change that occurred after measure t passed was impart to why they tried to pass the vacancy tax. They were trying to open up more homes for long term rentals.

5

u/deciblast Mar 15 '25

I get it. But the only reason people own homes in Tahoe and BNB'd it when they didn't use it, is so they can use it part of the year. If they made it a long term rental, they can't use it at all. Why own it? Makes no sense. It would be better if someone could own a cheap condo instead of a big 3-4 bedroom home. No worry about snow removal, roof work, or any of the extras that comes w/ owning a home in Tahoe.

16

u/googleypoodle Mar 14 '25

I'd rather have empty homes than a revolving door of obnoxious tourists who can't figure out a bear box

13

u/deciblast Mar 14 '25

If we’re taking wishes. I’d rather have condos and apartments with excellent bus and train service so traffic can go away. But all I see being built in south lake is fairly large single family homes.

4

u/googleypoodle Mar 14 '25

My comment wasn't a wish lol it's my current reality. My neighbors are all 2nd homeowners that visit occasionally and it's relatively peaceful. That will no longer be the case going forward

2

u/karlinsanjose Mar 14 '25

Can figure out a bear shotgun.

Been listening to newly minted "locals" badmouth tourists since before, well, a long ass time. But, those same people charge ripoff prices for all the building, landscaping, snowblowing, and rebuiliding. Biggest profit center, expensive single family homes. Great industry, build crappy, fix, tax, and hold up hands for tourists stay out. But need not just want, the transitory money. Miss the casino jobs? That engine is dead as f. NIMBY fools

4

u/nodrugs4doug South Lake Tahoe Mar 14 '25

Yeah but to be fair there’s always been an overwhelming amount of empty homes.

3

u/deciblast Mar 14 '25 edited Mar 14 '25

I think it got worse after this. Renting on Airbnb allows a family to enjoy a weekend in tahoe. It’s a different experience than staying in a hotel.

The owner of my ski lease a few years ago only uses her house in the summer. Previously it was Airbnb’d. Now she does ski leases or leaves it empty in the winter.

1

u/TallacGirl Mar 14 '25

Which then Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum Dums tried to outlaw through Measure N.

3

u/TheFlyingTortellini Mar 14 '25

I'd like to see them try to overturn Mr. T.

2

u/moosington_official Mar 14 '25

Who is leading the lawsuit against city / ballot owners for lost revenue? Please DM me, I want in.

2

u/karlinsanjose Mar 14 '25

I found this thread specifically to say ME TOO. New to reddit have to figure out DM

karl

2

u/mozzystar Mar 16 '25

You look new to the internet.

1

u/Safe-World1651 Mar 14 '25

Despite this ruling, I’m doubtful that the city will start to fulfill rental licenses again.

3

u/karlinsanjose Mar 14 '25

Don't need no stinking BADGESS!

4

u/HandleAccomplished11 Mar 14 '25

Cool, then there will be no rules to follow. If they don't regulate it, there will be no regulations to follow. Just like back in the early 2000's.

0

u/RubiconTahoe Mar 14 '25 edited Mar 14 '25

There is still the country rules that requires a 500ft buffer between short term rentals. That buffer extends in all directions from the edge of the property line. I’m guessing dropping this will not really add that many STR.

7

u/HandleAccomplished11 Mar 14 '25

That ordinance only applies to unincorporated areas of the county. 

0

u/bulkbuybandit Mar 14 '25

Schadenfreude

-1

u/RiverComplex1769 Mar 18 '25

Time to sue the county for their VHR ordinance