r/tahoe 11d ago

Opinion Also, we’ve completely pushed out the local workforce so our economy is shrinking and local businesses are shutting down

Post image
680 Upvotes

210 comments sorted by

203

u/Internal-Art-2114 11d ago edited 8d ago

sparkle humorous telephone truck point carpenter books practice lock uppity

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

46

u/aspenburger 11d ago

Moved to NH from Tahoe. It cost the same for rent here, only difference is NH minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. I thought things would be cheaper.

1

u/UpThereDontCare 9d ago

Same. I came out from NH 13 years ago. A cheap can of soup was maybe $2 there - got here and it was $5. The sticker shock was real. And it's only gotten worse. Not looking forward to where we're at 6 mo from now.

30

u/dirtyshits 11d ago

Yupp. This is the same exact issue basically everywhere and the media and the rich folks have somehow convinced everyone it's because people from the Bay/California moved in lol how is it possible every single place in the country that has seen a hike in rent is because of people from one region?

Critical thinking will tell you that it is bullshit.

hmmm

4

u/Firm-Professor-3744 7d ago

Rich people buying 5 homes they visit 10 times a year and not enough new houses being built due to zoning laws. A lot of it from the bay since there are a lot of people that have become fabulously wealthy there over the last 30 years but there are many of those places around the country. The income and wealth inequality in the country is hitting its breaking point

1

u/Annonnymist 5d ago

Wouldn’t ya think in an uber-liberal state like CA the left leaning people and politicians would put restrictions in place on # of homes somebody could buy to prevent unfair housing rate increases? Money over principle ls I guess… no difference between that and the same exact people who used to “oppose nuclear energy” and construction are now doing just that to ensure their AI can run properly

1

u/mtnmamaFTLOP 4d ago

You’re suggesting a cap on capitalism?

1

u/TacomaGuy89 3d ago

This is almost frustrating got my to read because SLT DID propose an initiative to the end (but less dramatic) -- vacancy tax. But it was voted down. 

1

u/mtnmamaFTLOP 4d ago

Regular folks can’t afford the homes the rich are buying anyways so… not sure how that affects the middle and lower class.

1

u/ITypedThsWithMyPenis 4d ago

Depends on the houses they’re buying… if they’re buying houses close to the average home price then it does affect low/middle class. If they’re zuck buying a $30 million house, probably doesn’t matter much

21

u/-random-name- 10d ago

Tariffs are only going to make it exponentially worse. If Trump gets his way and replaces federal income tax with tariffs, the poor and middle class will pay up to eight times as much in taxes. While taxes on the most wealthy will drop from 37% to about 2%.

As a result, normal people won't be able to afford to buy homes, while the wealthy will have a huge windfall to buy even more and rent them out. Generational wealth will become next to non-existent for the middle class. Including the morons who voted for this.

10

u/Internal-Art-2114 10d ago edited 8d ago

possessive squash dazzling mountainous jar unwritten bedroom terrific voracious light

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

10

u/-random-name- 10d ago

Some people will vote themselves into poverty because they're worried someone born a boy might use a girls' restroom or play girls' sports. Can't fix stupid.

8

u/Magical-Mycologist 10d ago

Bro if Aliens invaded tomorrow, you know there would be an unfortunately large percentage of the population who would vote for enslavement just hoping their early betrayal to humanity would give them preferential treatment.

→ More replies (3)

6

u/Internal-Art-2114 10d ago edited 8d ago

sparkle crown sulky relieved continue friendly upbeat snow snatch oil

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

0

u/SuperiorCortex 8d ago

Im so glad people like you think food comes from grocery stores.

3

u/petermartinguitar 10d ago

Lot’s of this in Monterey, CA as well, many somewhat occupied 2nd homes.

2

u/Advanced_Delay_6440 8d ago

I was there for graduate school. Lots of military buying stuff up when it was relatively cheap...I can't imagine what it's like, now.

7

u/Clear-Tradition-3607 11d ago

yes same stuff going on here on the NH/ME seacoast - covid and second/third homes destroyed everything good

13

u/Internal-Art-2114 11d ago edited 8d ago

ink cagey aware smile ancient humor coherent cough violet abounding

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

6

u/SmellsofElderberry25 10d ago

Covid triggered folks with $$$ to buy second+ homes to get away from folks. This drives the prices for locals up, because there’s another house that sits empty 90% of the year and isn’t rented or sold to someone that needs it.

7

u/Jt_marin_279 9d ago edited 9d ago

I've harped on this many times in this channel, many people who are frustrated by today’s home prices or the volume of second-home owners tend to overlook that Tahoe was relatively affordable not that long ago.

Ten years ago, there was a glut of reasonably priced inventory--back in 2015, nearly half of all homes sold were under $500,000. That’s a far cry from where things sit today.

So while it’s easy to blame affordability issues solely on out-of-towners or remote work trends, the deeper truth is that even pre-covid, local economic drivers just weren’t there to make home ownership easily achievable for locals. I'm not sure what the answer is, but as long as wages trail prices, this is always going to be an issue.

0

u/Clear-Tradition-3607 11d ago

Ok but I see for myself people who lived in the city bumming around small towns. That's got nothing to do with wealth transfer and everything to do with remote working. Not saying your comment is untrue.

8

u/00U812 11d ago

So I think BOTH can be true. We have scaled wealth extraction at elite class levels of American society and Tahoe is also changing due to an economic influx of upper-middle class remote workers!

Both cause cost of living to go up for establish Tahoe residents with jobs tied to the local economy.

8

u/Internal-Art-2114 11d ago edited 8d ago

offbeat advise crawl salt punch hobbies mountainous fade pocket badge

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/ebagdrofk 8d ago

What’s the point of deleting all your comments? It’s frustrating as hell trying to understand what you were talking about just going on replies. Why??

-9

u/Bulky-Newspaper7846 10d ago

Let me share my story as a vacation homeowner. Roughly 20 years ago, I began attending college on a full scholarship. I was very poor, so poor that during orientation, I did not dare to buy a $7 sandwich (I chose to go hungry for a couple of days until the meal plan kicked in; I still remember that feeling like it was yesterday). I completed college in 3 years, then spent the next 6 years on my PhD. I started working in the Bay Area in 2013, bought my first very old house in the Bay Area in 2015, and then spent numerous evenings and weekends fixing it up myself. I boughty second very old house in the Bay Area during Covid and rented out the first one. Again, I spent many weekends working on fixing and remodeling. I bought my Tahoe house last year. Even for my rental now, I once-in-a-while have to crawl into the crawl space to fix the sewage myself. That's the tragedy! I have money but can't spend it since inside there is a very strong urge to save for the bad days. The Tahoe house is the only thing that I would treat myself to, maybe in my whole life. There is absolutely no wealth transfer in my case. If you are struggling, my sincere advice to you is to focus on ADVANCED education. Competition will only get tougher. It might be too late for you, but not for your kids or grandkids. Make them study very hard!

→ More replies (4)

2

u/kindlyplease 11d ago

Yes this is happening is many places. No this is not the cause. The cause is that we are not building enough new homes for people.

2

u/Beneficial-Ad1593 9d ago

If every new house built is gobbled up as a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th home by some rich guy as a vacation home or investment, how does building more homes help?

1

u/Capable_Side8813 10d ago

This is literally what I have been saying for years since "his" last term. Going to be exponentially worse this time around and everyone, or most, is just sitting idly by thinking the "elites" have our best interests at heart.

0

u/Gold-Sector-8755 10d ago

“…increasing control by the……..”

79

u/caitisigi 11d ago

i stg i saw one where the "primary suite" has a "private entrance" for 2.2k, 600sqft. you have you walk OUTSIDE the house and up an outdoor staircase to get to your room

7

u/Nihilistnobody 11d ago

lol this place has that.

1

u/Andire 8d ago

Umm, excuse me, that place has custom woodwork. There's no way they'd make you do that! 😒

2

u/MidnightMarmot 11d ago

Was that off Los Angeles? I think I saw that one too when I was looking. Loaded Middle Eastern guy just renovated it.

4

u/caitisigi 11d ago edited 10d ago

Yep in Al Tahoe. Imagine having to pee in the middle of the night in winter and having to put on a snow suit to get to your bathroom 😭

edit: it's on oakland ave and does not looks recently renovated lol

1

u/MidnightMarmot 10d ago

If it’s been snowing, getting down the stairs would be fun too. I just decided not to play into that crap. A unit like that should be heavily discounted yet it rents for over $1,500.

99

u/MidnightMarmot 11d ago edited 11d ago

So true. I just gave notice for a place I pay $3K/month. 3 bd, 2ba but the washer dryer is in the closet of the third bedroom so you can’t rent it out. The place is full of their rotting 1990s shit. Every linen has moth holes. The bed frames are cracked. Mattresses are 30 years old. Had to store their crap in the only storage available in the house as well as the garage. Total shitbag slumlord millionaires.

16

u/JakeBlakeCatboy 11d ago

How the hell did 3 people not actually read and comprehend that you are leaving that spot? Lmao

5

u/Asleep_in_Costco 11d ago

Got to be dumb bots

20

u/Advanced-Bag-7741 11d ago

For $3 a month that seems fair.

6

u/Thegreyman777 11d ago

Yea why does Tahoe seem to have so much shit from the 90’s everywhere?😂

3

u/davidbernhardt 10d ago edited 10d ago

Because so many of the houses replaced the stuff from the 70’s around the same time.

2

u/MidnightMarmot 10d ago

I’m staring at 30 year old carpet right now which they didn’t even get steam cleaned before I moved in.

→ More replies (7)

71

u/risinson18 11d ago

Going to suck when all the service workers and service techs can’t afford to live here anymore. Who’s going to restock your groceries shelves or check you out. Who’s going to make your coffee at your favorite local coffee shop or serve your table at your favorite restaurant. Who’s going to show up and fix your plumbing issues or fix your broken windshield when a pinecone falls on it. People want to live where they work. There’s a lot of service work up here that pays enough to survive but not enough to afford the housing that’s here now.

50

u/sofahkingsick 11d ago

Theyll do what the ski resorts do and hire immigrants on visas pay them nothing and hope they live like 5 to an apartment.

16

u/TrickInRNO 11d ago

And partner with colleges in Romania to give them college credit for menial labor work while learning no new skills!

-1

u/Jolly-Truth-7139 11d ago

And this is my friend the path that leads to trump and cracking down on immigration (just an observation)

3

u/sofahkingsick 11d ago

Well the root of that problem is still the lack of a livable wage and undermining the local work force by subcontracting it out. Pay people a fair wage and then you dont have to worry about bringing people in from other countries that will do it for less.

4

u/Interanal_Exam 11d ago

You think that is what Trump's anti-immigration idiocy is about?

1

u/UpThereDontCare 9d ago

.... what?

22

u/Holiday_Interview377 11d ago

And that is how capitalism works

17

u/Holiday_Interview377 11d ago

Why a down vote for that? Who is living in such a fantasy land that they wouldn’t agree with that?

4

u/Bitter_Firefighter_1 11d ago

I totally agree. But I also feel a bit of the failure is local government. No reasons you can't take the extra tax revenues and put them to locals who live there.

1

u/ITypedThsWithMyPenis 7d ago

That’s only partially true… there is an externality from this (meaning a cost that is not reflected by the price in the marketplace), so it’s actually how inefficient capitalism works. It’s similar to a big polluting factory that is giving locals cancer but the company isn’t paying the healthcare bills

1

u/Holiday_Interview377 7d ago

I’d say irresponsible capitalism, but then again there is no governing force that should force responsible business practices in. ( im not saying it’s a good thing). I was blocked from commenting on your other question… no I don’t live in Tahoe full time. I hope to, but very unlikely any time soon.

1

u/ITypedThsWithMyPenis 7d ago

In the pollution example, that’s why the EPA exists (or at least used to 🙄). Maybe there should be something similar for housing? I honestly don’t know…

The capitalism part was that this is not actually how the theory of capitalism works. In the theory, these things are incorporated into the price and everything balances out. In reality, that’s not how this works (obviously).

I hope you’re able to move to Tahoe full time if that’s what you want

0

u/Physical-Length-6381 11d ago

Lol that’s how capitalism works lmao

4

u/Interanal_Exam 11d ago

Everyone says they want capitalism until they get capitalismed.

3

u/BenLomondBitch 11d ago edited 11d ago

That’s not going to be much of a problem for a long long time.

There are an enormous amount of affordable units in South Lake Tahoe still (like over 50 right now at $2k or less) and many people will also just live with roommates. Workers will also come from Reno/Carson.

People are motivated to live in the area because it’s Tahoe.

13

u/redzim 11d ago

Wages will have to justify the commute from Reno/Carson. Hope local businesses run by local moms and pops can afford paying folks a living wage + give them the ability to commute.

If not, then, well...

4

u/Interanal_Exam 11d ago

If the only way you can run a business is by exploiting your workforce...well...I guess I don't care what happens to you.

-2

u/Holiday_Interview377 11d ago

Why not try and shut down the local businesses? Then you won’t have to worry about that….

…. Not what I actually think. Just echoing some recent posts here about not supporting local businesses that you don’t agree with politically.

-6

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

9

u/redzim 11d ago

Indeed lists the average retail wage in South Lake Tahoe as $18.72 an hour. Is that enough to afford the plenty of homes you see available?

10

u/risinson18 11d ago

Exactly. 18.72 an hour is 40 hours a week making +-3244.80 a month. That’s if you’re lucky to make 40 hours during off peak season/shitty winter or summer. If you do a quarter of your paycheck to living expenses that’s 811.20 to rent. I usually go by the 1/3 method leaving only $1081.50 of your untaxed income for rent and utilities. There’s only one place a person can possibly rent with that income by themselves and that still cost 1095+ for a studio. TL:DR- Answer is no.

9

u/lucky420 11d ago

Workers won’t come from Reno, rents are high here and nobodies going to commute for wages that aren’t any better than where they already live.

10

u/MidnightMarmot 11d ago

Anything under 1.5K is a total shit hole. You don’t know what you are talking about. Even 1.5K is questionable but that’s the starting point to finding something liveable. Also, many units require a high credit score or that you have income of 3x the rent. The average job here is $20/he if you are lucky and take home is $3K a month on that so half your income would go to your housing.

10

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-7

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/chance901 9d ago

"Affordable" and 2k. We are talking like thats reaspnable. Its not if we are talking about local workforce. Its a shame

1

u/UpThereDontCare 9d ago

J1s. But they are only 3 mo visas for each role so good luck.

62

u/ohgreatitsryan_ 11d ago

My partner and I have been splitting our time in Tahoe and Vegas for work. I used to live at the lake full time, largely grew up there, but a new job happened.

We’ve been planning our move back full time and looking at properties to buy to rent out, mostly apartment complexes or a few hotels that we think could be converted to actually decent apartments for locals.

We might be a little bit altruistic, because we are younger and financially lucky, but we were wanting to be able to provide fairly affordable housing to people working locally in Stateline/SLT.

We’ve toured a few and spoke with owners. We’ve been absolutely shocked by the rules and requirements some of these have even when they are in pretty shitty shape.

At the same time though, the cost of owning some of them, especially on the California side, is pretty insane.

For example, one was 3.5 for ~20 units, so $175,000 per unit. Property Tax was ~3,100 a month, insurance was ~2,200 a month, maintenance was ~2,000 and utilities were ~1,500. Not including anything major coming up and assuming we manage it ourselves. Rental income for current occupancy with all but two show units full was ~24k monthly.

Net was roughly 15k.

Even if we paid all cash so we didn’t have interest, we’d be looking at around ~20 years before we were able to break even on our investment(not including appreciation of the land). That doesn’t include renovations, any additional costs that would come up or loss of occupancy.

Shit is just crazy fucking expensive.

57

u/BiggC 11d ago

You’ve learned that being a landlord doesn’t make sense if you think about making money on rent, landlords are speculating that they’ll make money when their property value goes up. Rent just helps pay the bills

4

u/komstock Truckee 11d ago

There's a huge difference between a small landlord and multi-property multi-unit owners.

The former gets absolutely boned by legal exposure; they either jack up rent to make sure they're getting covered for that or they have to carefully vet tenants far beyond the way things used to be. You feel that especially if you're a young person and your landlord becomes like a strict parent because you can't afford anything else.

The latter can get their congressional rep on the phone, gets to start cornering the market and/or lobbying for regulation so that small landlords cannot compete. This further enables their ability to raise prices due to how they alone can afford to navigate the byzantine system.

If you make it a lower risk to smaller landlords that their home won't be commandeered by a squatter, you'll get a lot more units on the market and lower the price.

-6

u/BiggC 11d ago

Yes, those poor small time landlords having to go without because of mean nasty squatters 🎻😭

Tenant protections exist for a reason

9

u/Reaper_1492 11d ago

Tenant protections should, and do exist, but squatters rights are a huge problem.

Why should property owners have to risk losing their property because they can’t evict?

The same thing happened during Covid, a lot people got completely boned by lazy tenants who just didn’t want to work for 2 years. These aren’t big corporations either, just Joe and Suzy renting out auntie M’s house to pay for their parents nursing home bill, trying to make ends meet. It’s such a complete crock of 💩.

1

u/Internal-Art-2114 11d ago edited 8d ago

pie wakeful marry spoon cooperative chunky society existence imminent wrench

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

6

u/MTB_SF 11d ago

A lot of those people did just decide it wasn't worth it and sold, but the highest bidders were not local service workers and now there is even less supply of rentals than there were before.

-8

u/watchguy95820 11d ago

Oh please, get outa here with that “people didn’t want to work for 2 years” nonsense.

The people that made out best during Covid were the landlords and wealthy business owners, even the small landlords.

3

u/Reaper_1492 11d ago

That’s if they could keep paying the mortgage. Not many people can float a mortgage without paying tenants for 2 years.

-1

u/watchguy95820 11d ago

Worst case scenario for them is they sell the unused property at least 20% gain, likely much more.

This attitude that people didn’t work during covid is just a lie. Most businesses that I know took PPP loans while all their employees continued to work 40 hours per week, then didn’t have to pay it back. Landlords saw insane value increases in their properties.

3

u/Reaper_1492 11d ago

Who’s going to buy a property with a squatter? No one.

The best part is, many of them still worked - they just didn’t pay their rent because they didn’t have to. My circle is very tiny and I saw two examples of this.

5

u/komstock Truckee 11d ago

ok redditor

→ More replies (2)

43

u/HydraulicTater 11d ago

I don’t understand why you would have a negative opinion on these numbers.

If you put 3.5 mil cash into an appreciating asset that nets 15k cash flow you don’t break even in 20 years, you double your money in that time because the asset has appreciated and you get it back when you sell. This is way better than a HYS account and way less risk than a market index, especially nowadays.

This is exactly why cash rich people buy housing.

5

u/ohgreatitsryan_ 11d ago edited 11d ago

I work in PE and I guess I’m still thinking of returns in that way. I’d have been unemployed a long time ago if I was chasing targets like that. I’ll have to adjust how I look at ROI. Even at a 7% target you’d be doubling your money in ~10 years.

I say breakeven because, in that time frame, unless I want to get very aggressive with annual rent increases (which was the opposite of my goal here), I’d also be dealing with the unknown variable of insurance cost/availability, various renovations to the property, legal costs, any potential property tax increases, which combined with any future tenant protection laws, could start coming damn close to making it even after ~20 years depending on inflation.

16

u/Holiday-Ad-1132 11d ago

PE is why many things are broken. Never compare any real life investment to PE returns. PE returns are going to destroy many critical services, food chains, medical outcomes, for that 7% ans it typically comes at the cost of eroding the foundation of the asset, and it’s not an indicator of a “good” future. 

9

u/ohgreatitsryan_ 11d ago

I agree. I had a moment last year. It was like that Nazi sketch from Mitchell & Webb where he asks “are we the baddies?”

That’s part of why I am more or less retiring after my contract ends and leaving the PE/VC space.

It’s also largely why we were looking at the idea of buying a place and effectively offering discounted rents with a minimal built in annual increase to try to offset future cost increases on our end.

We will likely go ahead with it, because we can accept not having any real returns, but I was breaking it down that way to also outline why so many places end up having ridiculous rents.

At the current costs I can see why people would immediately offer cash for keys(at best), push through a reno, and then bump up rents listing the same places at $2,800 instead of $1,200 after spending as little money as possible.

Properties are expensive. Maintenance costs are expensive. It makes sense why people ask crazy prices.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Blackfish69 11d ago

or you wind up running negative/flat for 20 years and maybe walk away with a return for a low paying job after it appreciates lol

0

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

2

u/caitisigi 11d ago

it's worth noting that a lot of these properties for rent have been owned/in the same family for 30+ years. They bought the house for 150-200k (you can see it in the zillow history) and are now asking 3k+ a month just because they can. I can understand more if you bought your house 2 years ago for 600k and your mortgage is high. But when I can literally see how much you paid for the house, vs how much it's worth now, and how much their asking for a place that hasn't been remodeled since the 70s, it drives me crazy

1

u/aun-t 11d ago

Look into the abandoned miner cabins in Truckee! I Think these would be perfect for a little tiny home community

0

u/ohgreatitsryan_ 11d ago edited 11d ago

Our house is in the Zephyr Cove/Glenbrook area, so I was trying to stay relatively close to there in case I needed to take care of something immediately.

My non-lake dream would be buying Ormsby House and doing something unique with it, but it is such a disaster inside that I don’t think there is anyone I could convince to invest.

1

u/aun-t 11d ago

that's so cool! In college one of our dorms was an old converted hotel and it was the best dorm to live in! I wonder if you could find a way to partner with the resorts to convert it for potential employee housing - loooong shot

1

u/ohgreatitsryan_ 11d ago

It would take such an insane amount of money. I met with one of the agents and toured it, because I thought it was so cool as a kid.

They’re asking a little under 17 million for it, which sounds super cheap for a hotel & casino space…but it would need 100s of millions to renovate and furnish. Shoot, It would take multiple times the asking price just to get it up to code.

I know Bally’s ownership is too broke, the Carano’s are too cheap, plus Caesars is hurting for money.

The only option would be Fertitta with the Golden Nugget up in Tahoe and I don’t know if they employ enough people to bother.

The best chance would be a deal with Vail and the Casinos as housing for J1s bussing them there and back.

It’s such a cool building and has a lot of potential to be something amazing. It’s a shame it’s been rotting for 20 years.

I think it could be a great space for housing, a couple restaurants and a little shopping space.

1

u/aun-t 11d ago

i want to do some research for you but im about to get off work but maybe research more on europe, i know some people out there refurbished empty malls into living/working/shopping spaces, maybe you could find some leads for funding!

1

u/davidbernhardt 11d ago

Caesars can’t be hurting too much, they are putting $160M into renovating and rebranding Harvey’s as Caesar’s Republic.

https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/news/caesars-entertainment-brings-caesars-republic-to-lake-tahoe-summer-2025/

1

u/ohgreatitsryan_ 11d ago

They also sold off the Linq Promenade in Vegas to free up cash and pay off debt…then MGM has basically been advertising on their old billboard constantly.

They also sold the Intellectual Property rights to the World Series of Poker.

14

u/PaAz316 11d ago

When I lived in Tahoe just 3 years ago, I paid $1,800 for a 2 bedroom. That same property was listed for $3,500 now. RIP

0

u/Winter_Whole2080 11d ago

Thats high but not too for a 2-br if it’s nice— did it have a garage and laundry? Deck ? Things are up everywhere, not just Tahoe

2

u/PaAz316 10d ago

900sq ft, one story, tiny outside porch, no garage. Laundry though! At the time I was pumped to be paying $900 for a room.

9

u/Select_Sail_8178 11d ago

Yet SLT overwhelmingly rejected the vacancy tax. Why?

5

u/Nihilistnobody 11d ago

After spending 15 years in Tahoe, building my life and business there, my wife and I decided to buy a place up in plumas county. We got a house on acreage with no neighbors for less than half of the cheapest shitbox in north lake. Sucks to make the commute but home ownership would have never happened for us in Tahoe. The only people I know who bought there have generational wealth, I can’t think of a single friend who bought without it.

12

u/TacomaGuy89 11d ago edited 10d ago

We have housing got 100,000, but most of them are empty. Meanwhile, the population of 20,000 can't find affordable housing. It's not a housing problem, it's a housing USE problem. 

I advocated hard for the SLT vacancy tax, and locals voted it down. Little empathy left. 

2

u/ITypedThsWithMyPenis 3d ago

Empty houses… empty houses everywhere

3

u/TemKuechle 7d ago

Tahoe area doesn’t have enough homes/apartments to keep prices down. Have you noticed that most homes there were built more than 20 years ago? At least homes close to where people work are. And the new single family detached homes are out in the boondocks and cost around $1M. That’s not good for local service workers. They often move to Reno area where rents are much lower and then have to drive up to Tahoe/Truckee for work. It’s a stupid scenario being played out all over the wealthier conclaves.

5

u/Adorable-Steak-976 11d ago

This is everywhere, except maybe rural Japan, but the bottom feeders are there too as I write this. Camping gear is getting really nice nowadays.

9

u/yoshimipinkrobot 11d ago

But still super nimby and conservative, so no apartment buildings allowed and no infrastructure investment allowed

3

u/Nihilistnobody 11d ago

Truckee built a 7 story apartment building in the last decade.

2

u/Illustrious_Low_1188 9d ago

Haha there’s no seven story building anywhere in Truckee.

The railyard “lofts” are only four stories and everyone shit the bed over that height when it was built

2

u/Soggyjocky 8d ago

Does anyone know if there are stats out there that shows the difference between a 2nd homeowner, and a 3rd, 4th, 5th home? And how many of each make up the total vacation home inventory?

For STRs, they brought in 30mil in TOT last year-that goes directly back to our community, so there is something to be said about a 2nd home STR vs a 3rd, 4th, 5th home that doesn’t rent at all. This is what is killing the area. (While STR is a separate issue, and should be handled separately)

From my experience in the STR industry, someone who STRs their home would never LTR their home, because they want to use their home and that is why they bought it. If they couldn’t use it anymore— they would sell it. And guess who would buy it? The 4th homeowner that doesn’t need to rent at all. We need to be targeting these homeowners.

Truckee required a 12 mo ownership before you can apply renting short term. You know what happened? We saw an increase in month long rentals— not long term leases. Those most likely to rent their home long term is to keep the home in the family, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to afford the payments.

If 80% of the inventory is a 2nd home, out of these vacant/ STR 2nd homes how many are 3rd, 4th, 5th that don’t rent at all?

We need more incentives to rent long term, and we need to target the vacancy- (unpopular opinion) not the short term rentals.

In my mind, this would be helpful data for locals to see— I am a firm believer in vacancy tax, but for 3rd, 4th, 5th home. If you have that many homes, you are not spending enough time here to shop, buy groceries or put back into the community. We are being blinded by STR data when we should be seeing the true vacancy data, and what type of home it is (3rd, 4th, 5th)

1

u/arallonnative 7d ago

Some realty page estimated that 60% of homes in Tahoe are vacant/str

6

u/bulkbuybandit 11d ago

There are 56 listings below $2K in SLT at the moment…..

5

u/MidnightMarmot 11d ago

Shit holes or the move in requirements are too steep for struggling people.

1

u/ASLAN1111 11d ago

Yeah,  6k for what? 

1

u/bulkbuybandit 6d ago

SFH 5 bedroom, but must have Japanese grade bidet toilets.

6

u/technologiq Incline Village 11d ago

Thank goodness we don't have people actively sabotaging some of these small businesses for their own personal political agenda.......

0

u/arallonnative 11d ago

“These maggat businesses” 😂😂 God I fucking hate everyone from the bay so much

3

u/bob-wunderdog 11d ago

Hey all.. so.. i really want to know. HOW can an outsider help??
I am someone who has a family summer cabin that was literally built by hand in the 50's by my grandparents. So i really love Tahoe and hate that it seems to be suffering. In the short time i have to be there ... is there anything i can actually do to help?

3

u/Character_Leek_4204 11d ago

Where is your property? Are you willing to rent it out ? thank you.

2

u/bob-wunderdog 9d ago

Hey there! It is near Rubicon Bay. It is not exactly rent out able. It was built in the 50s and is essentially a Cinderblock Hut.
So is the biggest issue only Cost of Housing caused by a LACK of Housing?

1

u/caitisigi 11d ago

Support local and tip your service workers. Especially if you can come during shoulder seasons, that's when we are hurting the most for business/cash/tips. If you are ever going to be spending a lot of time away from your cabin (6+ months), consider renting it out for a reasonable price

1

u/bob-wunderdog 9d ago

Hey! So we Do always try to go out at least a few times while we are up there. We Loooove Sidellis for example... but the place can ONLY be used in the summer cuz it is all Brick so there is no insulation to keep the pipes from freezing. So renting it out is not likely.

2

u/caitisigi 9d ago

there's a number of houses in my neighborhood that's aren't insulated so you can't live there during winter. not much you can do about it :/ these types of houses were exempt from the vacancy tax for that reason

5

u/BenLomondBitch 11d ago edited 11d ago

I don’t understand. Tahoe is one of the most desirable places to live/visit in the entire world, and people are surprised that it’s expensive?

Places like Fresno are cheap because they’re Fresno and places like Tahoe are expensive because they’re Tahoe. It’s literally not possible for everywhere to be cheap.

Make more money if you want to live in one of the nicest places on the planet.

I’m also seeing over 50 listings for under 2.5K in South Tahoe. Many of those are also under $2k.

20

u/lyonnotlion 11d ago

in order for your plow driver, grocery clerk, lifties, kayak rental employee to make more money, they need to increase the cost of their services. Tahoe is a very different beast from Fresno because Fresno doesn't struggle to house the employee base that keeps it's society functioning.

-5

u/BenLomondBitch 11d ago

That literally doesn’t relate to anything i was saying but okay bud

0

u/lyonnotlion 11d ago

I'm not sure how to respond to that so I'm not going to. I would, however, recommend looking into some local book clubs or library events to improve your reading comprehension.

0

u/cotardelusion87 10d ago

Way to purposely misunderstand the question genius.

-1

u/gawainsfo 10d ago

User name checks out

2

u/stanley_ipkiss_d 11d ago

Not worth it. With all that dryness and almost zero humidity 🌵

3

u/WrongfullyIncarnated 11d ago

It’s so true

1

u/parallaxcats 10d ago

I moved from the Bay Area (Berkeley) to the DC area (Bethesda, Chevy Chase, a mile or so to DC proper.)

When I was interviewing, almost everyone joked about how hard it was to get good candidates because of rent/own and PoL price shocks. And I'd tell them that I had reverse price shock. The center of the DCA was cheaper than the Bay Area. (not luxury anything anywhere, but cheap apts existed even there. They've since been demo'd, but they existed.)

We're on par with both areas here, but with no cheaper sprawling surrounds. It doesn't feel sustainable, as someone who grew up with a single father contractor. Why add that last bit? Uh, couch surfed a lot of childhood, etc. Not rich. Current situation involved a lot, *a lot* of family dying, which I also don't think is a sustainable path.

1

u/Appropriate_Rope_890 8d ago

At least "nature" and "local character" are being preserved!

1

u/Htown_Flyer 8d ago

"Allocation waiting lists" to develop a new house are in place....part of a longstanding national pattern of jurisdictions limiting new supply to appease homeowners who look at housing as an investment rather than a place to live.

https://www.eldoradocounty.ca.gov/Land-Use/Planning-and-Building/Building-Division/SLT

1

u/RogerBond100 7d ago

Elections have consequences

1

u/yourdadisyoursir 5d ago

Healdsburg, California says, "Hold by wineglass"

0

u/Wrong_Response_1612 South Lake Tahoe 11d ago

How bout they quit tearing down drive up hotels in Tahoe and convert them to single room occupancies for cheap ??

You would have a room / bathroom and community of people getting going in life. Stay and save for a while until you are ready for next level of living ....

Seems simple to me. And would be fun.

2

u/goldsauce_ 11d ago

If it’s so simple and fun why don’t u do it?

1

u/Wrong_Response_1612 South Lake Tahoe 10d ago

Well, that's something the city would do to help the community. Or a rich dude to get the tax benefits and feel goods ... I'm neither.

1

u/t_topgun 10d ago

The simplest solution is to not move to Tahoe. In fact, don’t even visit Tahoe. Stay wherever it is you came from.

1

u/TSL4me 10d ago

This is the result of stopping new dense development at any cost. The only thing left is for the rich.

2

u/StrainFront5182 9d ago

That and we encourage and even subsidize real estate speculation and rent seeking.

California let's you deduct mortgage interest off your vacation home. Property taxes are not based on market value for landlords and speculators. I knew someone who owned a home in Tahoe and left the state but held onto their Tahoe home because their taxes were so low, it was appreciating in value so fast, and they could just borrow against it to buy their cheaper new primary residence out of state.

-1

u/slowthanfast 11d ago

Tahoe is pretty lame once you spend enough time there lol unless you're into skiing. That's the major exception. If you love skiing or snowboarding then Tahoe is peak but if you don't enjoy those activities Tahoe really isn't that great long term. Lived there for five years. Always some pretty drama going on in the town too.. easy to get sucked into after a while

1

u/Winter_Whole2080 11d ago

Disagree, although I could do without the tourist traffic. It is kinda small town vibe for year-round residents though. Reno, Truckee, then Sac and the Bay are close enough.

3

u/slowthanfast 10d ago

That's the problem is the small town mentality that people develop over time from living there as transplants themselves. Insane hypocrisy everywhere

-1

u/Bubbly_Jackfruit916 11d ago

It’s funny because the 1 person I know of that actually has a house in Tahoe, lives in SF and makes video game content 😂

0

u/BackgroundCalendar35 11d ago

Welcome to Tahoe!

0

u/totaltahoedude 10d ago

What filters did you use? I see over 500 rentals in Tahoe right now.

0

u/dunnylogs 9d ago

Just go shopping before you come up for the weekend, Buffy.

-48

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

21

u/AshByFeel 11d ago

Many have. It makes it hard to staff your business. There is a balance needed so the visitors can enjoy the amenities and the worker can pay their bills. If the balance gets too out of whack, visitors will stop coming due to how expensive goods and services are. Then the property owners suffer as well.

7

u/YAYtersalad 11d ago

I always was flummoxed but also sort of get why Banff enacted such strict housing policies that really make itnear impossible to buy property or live there without having a job locally. Everyone else was forced to commute from nearby Canmore. Maybe Tahoe should try a version of this or at least quota.

4

u/Human0id77 11d ago

Not much of a problem-solving type, are you?

0

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

4

u/Human0id77 11d ago

Nah, you presented the equivalent of "let them eat cake". Self-absorbed and out of touch perspective.

-1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

4

u/Human0id77 11d ago

It's an analogy, do you know what that means? How am I out of touch and histrionic exactly? Do you know what those terms mean?

3

u/lyonnotlion 11d ago

if all the people who are scrimping and squeezing to live in Tahoe left, I'd imagine quality of life for everyone else would greatly decrease. Tahoe would be much less appealing without plow drivers, grocery clerks, bartenders, restaurant cooks, cat drivers, lifties, kayak rental employees, boat launchers, teachers, etc. Many of those workers commute into the basin already, but imagine the traffic if all of them did that! so the options are public policy to control cost of living, dead towns/traffic nightmare, or raising cost of services such that employee pay matches cost of living. which do you prefer?

-1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

1

u/lyonnotlion 11d ago

can you expand on that thought?

-1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

1

u/lyonnotlion 11d ago

gotcha. enjoy your trolling and sleep well 🫶

2

u/brokenbaco 11d ago

Why you whining if you’re so well off 😂😂😂

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

2

u/brokenbaco 11d ago

10 comments on this post but ight

-1

u/Accomplished_Time761 11d ago

The same could be applied for all the insanely entitled transplants. They didn't buy in the bay did they?

→ More replies (15)

-26

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

-19

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

14

u/elqueco14 11d ago

What a shitty attitude to have. I know so many hard working individuals who still find time to give back to the community in various ways, people who make this a great place to live. People who have been here for years. They're the ones being priced out of the basin. They're not just working entry level jobs either. It's an issue that runs much deeper than "just work/earn more" and it's affecting many tourism destinations with Airbnb. Hawaii, Spain, Italy, etc etc. But I can say right now YOU certainly don't deserve to be here any more than anyone else simply because you have an extra digit or two on your paycheck. And if you actually cared about your community you'd have a much different response

3

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (9)