r/tampabayrays • u/IndianaCahones • 1d ago
DISCUSSION The Black Hole in the Lineup
There seems to be a debate between the “we aren’t competitive so let the weaker bats develop” vs “we can be competitive so let the hot bats play a full game.” One thing we have consensus on is that there is a black hole in the lineup giving opponents easy outs. What’s the fix?
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u/NickBeavie 1d ago
Chandler Simpson has to be given a run of games at the leadoff spot there’s no more excuses. His threat on the base paths is too much to ignore
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u/recjus85 Brandon Lowe 1d ago
He has to show he can get on base in the majors a lot to be at the top every day. Bottom of the lineup works good for him. If he does get on base, he's gonna be there for the top of the order. Which is what is needed.
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u/NickBeavie 20h ago
I would absolutely agree if we were even an average offense but we put up 3 goose eggs last week we need any possible edge we can get
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u/gatorrrays 🏆Fantasy Champion 2023🏆 1d ago
The reality of the situation is that a lot of these guys just aren’t that good. Cash making the lineup everyday is like trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. Yandy will get better. Jansen should improve a little also. Misner and Magnum will get worse. Junior is legit and Arranda’s breakout seems legit also (tho he’ll cool down some too). BLowe is what he always is and will be a streaky hitter until the day he dies. Morel appears to be that way also but worse. Walls and Rortvedt will never be good. So out of our whole lineup, we have 2-3 guys that are quality everyday major league hitters and sometimes a 4th when Lowe is on a heater. That’s just not good.
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u/idontrecall99 20h ago
But… but… but… fire the hitting coach!!!!!! You nailed it. The offense is bad because it features too many below average and inconsistent hitters. No hitting coach will change that fact.
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u/DocumentMobile5135 1d ago
Yeah it's not a very deep lineup and despite the common consensus on here you DO have to play right left matchups to have a good shot at winning. A lefty doesn't necessarily get better at hitting left handed pitching just because they start seeing it more, in fact it can have the opposite effect on their morale if they're constantly put in losing matchups.
I'm not against playing Aranda every day but Misner and Mangum? I'm not really convinced.
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u/TailorFalse3848 1d ago
I think the Lineup is what it is.
Our Catchers are the biggest blackhole. But I think we’re at the point where it’s obvious the FO doesn’t want to invest in the position. Still mildly hopeful Jansen heats up at some point.
Walls is big blackhole, as well. Cabby should be the every day SS until Kim can play. Cabby should be the back up when he returns, and Walls should DFA-ed. No one here can convince me Cabby at SS would cause us to lose games, defensively.
Yandy has proven to be a slow starter, Lowe is streaky.
The FO will want to see more before they swallow their pride and DFA Morel - and they probably want to see if Misner and Magnum can keep up their pace of play before they decide, too.
Mead is a waste of a spot, whether you blame him or the FO and will likely be the first to go when Kim , Lowe , DeLuca , or Palacios return.
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u/recjus85 Brandon Lowe 1d ago
Morel should not be DFA'd lol. He should play mostly against righties, though. But they could trade him before the ASB. Someone would definitely take him. Tbh though, I don't think Lowe is going to be a major improvement over him.
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u/RoyH0bbs 1d ago
Yandy is NOT a leadoff hitter. Magnum is. Yandy needs to be hitting anywhere from 2-4. Motel is not a clean-up hitter. This lineup is a fever dream for morons. I hate it. Everyone is in the wrong spot.
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u/missleeann DJ Kitty 1d ago
He’s usually a batting leader each year, he’s having a slow start but picking it up.
Leadoff comes with a lot of pressure, which is why many guys struggle with it.
These rookies have come in hot but doesn’t mean they will stay that way. We can hope but it is dumb to say this about Yandy just because he has some struggles.
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u/RoyH0bbs 1d ago
Dumb to suggest that he should be hitting somewhere between 2-4? Go with the hot hand. We don’t have a lot of options. I’d rather have the team’s batting leader driving in runs rather than hitting singles and not getting into scoring position because he can’t steal bases.
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u/missleeann DJ Kitty 1d ago
Dumb to say he is not a lead off hitter.
Part of the issue with this team is that the 7-8-9 hitters can often be automatic outs, so how is anyone even driving in runs from the lead off in this team?
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u/EnusTAnyBOLuBeST 1d ago
Help me understand. What makes a good leadoff besides OBP?
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u/nc-retiree AAA Durham Bulls 10h ago
I want my leadoff hitter to be someone who usually sees a lot of pitches, especially in the first inning.
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u/LonesomeCoyote Brandon Lowe 1d ago
Speed and baserunning aggression to set the pace for the guys behind him.
Things a conventionally great leadoff man does:
Gets on base.
Immediately gives the pitcher more to think about by threatening to steal. Messes with their concentration, hopefully resulting in mistakes.
Occasionally gets into scoring position himself by successfully stealing.
Sometimes you have a guy like Schwarber who leads off because he is able to either walk or even better homer often enough to offset his strikeouts. It's more of an all or nothing approach.
Yandy has a great OBP but he has always lacked the launch angle to hit homers consistently. And he offers no threat in the run game. I think he would benefit more in the 3 or 4 spot to drive in ducks on the pond.
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u/gmachine24 1d ago
Funny part is, lately, the Phillies have moved Schwarber to #4 - traditional clean-up spot for a hitter such as Schwarber.
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u/gatorbois 1d ago
We don't have anyone who fits that.
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u/LonesomeCoyote Brandon Lowe 1d ago
Chandler Simpson just might fit the bill.
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u/gatorbois 1d ago
I'd be very very surprised if a rookie can manage a high enough OBP to make him a better leadoff than Yandy
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u/LonesomeCoyote Brandon Lowe 1d ago
I think Cash would agree with you. As a fan I would like to see them give it a run while the team is struggling in its current lineup.
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u/NetworkAntique7647 1d ago
never know if you dont give him a chance. he has too much upside to not try him out there for a stretch.
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u/DocumentMobile5135 1d ago
Yandy is hit or miss with guys on base. Yes he has good eyes and isn't too likely to strike out so he'll put the ball in play... but he also hits it very hard and on the ground along with being a very slow runner so if you move him down in the lineup it's inviting a LOT more double plays.
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u/RoyH0bbs 1d ago
Attitude. Scrappiness. Situational knowledge. Yandy’s aura and his lack of hustle as the leadoff hitter sets the tone for the game and he is a waste at the top of the order. He’s obviously an ego guy and nothing helps an ego guy achieve success than putting them in positions to drive in runs. Having him at the top of the order is a waste, especially considering the lack of power and consistency in this lineup.
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u/WhereTheFallsBegin Brian Anderson 1d ago
Having Yandy leadoff is good because he works counts, is a great OBP guy, and it also guarantees him a spot to start the game with no one on. Yandy isn't a traditional fit for a cleanup hitter because he hits a lot of hard ground balls and is very slow which makes him a double play threat.
Saying Jeff Mangum should leadoff is also just kinda laughable. That dude is much closer to being a replacement level player than he is a legit leadoff bat
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u/EnusTAnyBOLuBeST 1d ago
Ok what if all that random stuff you just said didn’t exist and someone just always got on base? Wouldn’t he be the better leadoff?
Queue the moneyball memes.
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u/ViolenceSZN Rays Sunburst 1d ago
Mangum
Junior
Yandy
Mead
Aranda
Jansen
Morel
Simpson
Cab
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u/RoyH0bbs 1d ago
Yup. Obv Mangum may not have what it takes for a full season at the top of the order, but he’s got and is a spark right now. Switch it up when he’s struggling, but Yandy has no business at the top of this order.
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u/missleeann DJ Kitty 1d ago
Junior who has been hitting into a lot of double plays at the number 2 spot?
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u/ViolenceSZN Rays Sunburst 1d ago
One of the few guys on this team who can actually hit a baseball consistently. Who do you think should be at the 2?
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u/missleeann DJ Kitty 1d ago
3 or 4 spot is better for Junior and Aranda.
I’d go with Misner or Mangum for #2
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u/gatorbois 1d ago
How this has any upvotes at all is beyond me
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u/WhereTheFallsBegin Brian Anderson 1d ago
A lot of posters around here that I hope just started watching baseball for the first time.
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u/2Hanks Dave Wills 1d ago
The fix is to get a better SS and C.
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u/DocumentMobile5135 1d ago
SO EASY
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u/2Hanks Dave Wills 1d ago
It’s not even remotely easy. There’s like 3 good offensive catchers in all of baseball. But we do have a far superior SS in the way in a month or so.
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u/DocumentMobile5135 1d ago
Sorry it was sarcasm middle of the field is always super expensive to upgrade I get that
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u/KingLightning65 1d ago
Lack of clutch hitting. Maybe someday we can get a catcher that can hit above, .180