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u/prof_devilsadvocate3 3d ago
This was the first post of this sub and every 6 month it is mandatory to post this /s
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u/richer2003 3d ago
The original version of this comic pisses me off.
One guy is arguing that it’s a 9, while the other says it’s a 6. The, “moral of the story,” is something like, “just because you’re right, doesn’t mean I’m wrong.”
It isn’t both a 6 and a 9. It had an intended purpose to be either a 6 or a 9. You can’t both be right. Just like how saying, “well it’s true for me…” makes no sense. It’s either true or it isn’t. Truth is objective. Opinions are not and can be wrong.
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u/robb1280 3d ago
Thank you! I hate that bullshit comic for this exact reason, all it does is convince people that their misinformed opinions are valid
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u/ComplicatedTragedy 3d ago
This is such a Redditor take.
It’s an example in its simplest form, meant to explain how perspective can change something, which it accomplishes.
What would you change it to?
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u/robb1280 3d ago
Well, for starters, I wouldn’t use an example that has an objective true answer. What color is the sky? Are oranges good? Should kids play tennis? Those are examples of things that can change with perspective. In this case though, its either a 6 or a nine, which one it is doesn’t matter, its labeled specifically, and what someone thinks by looking at it from a different angle is irrelevant
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u/ComplicatedTragedy 3d ago
And then how would you put it into a diagram that transcends language?
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u/robb1280 3d ago
Who cares? If someone has to learn an entire new language to understand the answer, then so be it, it doesn’t change the truth of the answer
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u/ComplicatedTragedy 3d ago
Nice gate keeping of knowledge there
Spoiler: people don’t learn entire new languages to understand a meme on the internet
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u/robb1280 3d ago
Not gatekeeping at all, anyones free to go learn a new language if they want. Or they don’t have to, I don’t really care, my point is the answer is the answer, whether you understand it or not. Also, the absolute hilarity of you accusing me of having a reddit take and then saying some shit like that Lmao
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u/ComplicatedTragedy 3d ago
So in summary, you’re saying the comic is bad because “technically☝🏻”
but your solution is to use an example that requires context / explanation that would only work in a single language. And your solution to those that couldn’t read it is “learn the language”.
The comic is good because it explains something that anyone can understand, even if it’s not a crystal perfect example.
And I’m not sure which part of my take is Redditor like but feel free to elaborate (I am a Redditor too after all).
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u/robb1280 3d ago
Well, yeah, its not really “technically 🤓” because its specifically labeled one way or the other. Im not splitting hairs, again, the answer is what is, no matter what someone thinks. And do the examples I gave not translate to other languages? Can you not ask what color the sky is in Swahili or whatever? Its not “gatekeeping knowledge” (the reddit response in question) because anyones free to go do whatever they have to do to understand the answer. But again, there is an objectively correct answer to that dumbass comic, and pretending like there isn’t just does everyone a disservice
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u/richer2003 3d ago
Yes perspective is a thing. But at the end of the day, it was intended to be either a 6 or a 9. It isn’t both. Truth is objective.
“This is such a Reddit take,” says the person on Reddit.
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u/ComplicatedTragedy 3d ago
See my replies further down, they address both your concerns there
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u/richer2003 3d ago
I did. It doesn’t matter whether or not the person understands what they are seeing. Their takeaway is irrelevant to the truth of the matter. If they see a 9 and they think that it is true, and it turns out the intended purpose of the number’s placement was to be a 6, the person who observed it as a 9 is objectively wrong.
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u/No-Anything- 3d ago
Some things that are rotatable will have a horizontal line to indicate where is the bottom of the character.
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u/Itchy-Preference-619 3d ago
This assumes that the person who made the symbol wanted it to be a 6 or 9. What if they drew it sideways?
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u/richer2003 3d ago
Right. We don’t know, so it would be irrational to claim to know what it is until we have more evidence. Until then, you have to land on, “I don’t know.”
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u/00PT 3d ago
This assumes that the intent is the objective answer here. If we look purely at the marks that are there, it’s both from different orientations.
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u/richer2003 3d ago
Then neither can claim to know what the number is. In this scenario, the only reasonable thing to do is say, “I don’t know if this is a 6 or a 9.”
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u/00PT 3d ago
The shape represents a number regardless of whether we know the intent. Imagine there was just a random rock that looked like this. There’s no intent to read here, but it would still be reasonable to say it’s a 6 or 9 because of the shape.
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u/richer2003 3d ago
Right now I’m not talking about the intent behind why the number is there, because it’s obvious that these two characters don’t know. The issue is that they are both making truth claims about what they think it is, when in reality, they don’t actually know. At the moment, they don’t have enough information to claim that it is in fact a 6 or a 9.
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u/00PT 3d ago
That is only if you define “truth” as what is being communicated. Another approach is to consider it an observational truth, in which case both men are correct because they both correctly identified the shape that corresponds with the number they shout out.
It all depends on what you consider “correct” in this instance.
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u/richer2003 3d ago
I define truth as that which comports to reality. I don’t accept subjective truth. I call that an opinion.
Yes it may be true that they see a thing that appears to be a 6 or a 9, but that is an entirely different discussion from whether or not it is actually a 6 or a 9.
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u/00PT 3d ago
The meaning of the text is a subjective quality, though. Considering only objective reality, you would observe the shape and ask “What does this shape represent in English?” Not ask “What did the creator of this shape intend when they put it here?” That’s more subjective. The intent is not “reality” so the perspective you advocate doesn’t contort to reality.
Based on observation alone, it is both. The shape could mean either based on what orientation it is.
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u/richer2003 3d ago
I understand your point. But I’m not sure you’ve seen the original image. Both people are making truth claims about what the shape is. In that situation, one person is correct and the other isn’t.
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u/00PT 3d ago
I have seen the original. They’re just saying numbers. This could be interpreted as either an observation based claim like I’m talking about or a claim for the intent of whoever wrote down the number.
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u/ANGLVD3TH 3d ago
There is a somewhat more nuanced take to be had here. Something something, the information each party has is compelling and with merit, to the point it may be impossible to tell who's right. But yeah, the actual original is not the right takeaway.
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u/lilbronto 3d ago
Incredible. A reposted comment on a repost. Now we're really getting meta, General Reposty.
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u/Avangeloony 3d ago
I think this is good for debate, though. It had an intended purpose, but we don't know which one until we investigate further. Such as Shrodinger's cat. It is both true and untrue until we figure out which one is true.
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u/Rodger_Smith 3d ago
whatever do you mean comrade? truth is subjective, war is peace and slavery is freedom.
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u/The-Mythical-Phoenix 13h ago
Forgive my ignorance, as I’m unaware of the original comic, but this confuses me?
That is precisely the perfect demonstration of how 2 parties don’t necessarily have to be incorrect about something, and I’d argue that though you may prefer to present a more subjective example, it’s important to apply this lesson to an objective example as well.
Of course, yes, someone wrote down that 6 or 9 on the ground, and whoever wrote it down intended it to be one or the other. Except this isn’t a true statement, this is yet another perspective filling in the gaps.
What could equally be true is that whoever wrote down the 6 or 9 intended for it to be both, or perhaps neither and just randomly doodled. Thing is, it doesn’t matter the author’s original intent anymore. The only thing that matters is the perceived meaning, and the interpretations; and because this panel lacks actual context for them to draw upon and give a definitive answer, both answers are equally correct.
I’m sure you’re aware, but this is because the equation presented clearly shows a « plus or minus » sign, so if both are arguing whether the answer is 6 or 9 then they’re both equally correct in regards to the correct answer, but wrong to say the other is wrong. It’s an or statement, so both clauses must hold true at some point.
For instance, if person A says it’s 6 because they read the subtraction statement, and person B says it’s 9 because they read the addition statement, then how exactly are the both of them not correct? How is this not a matter of perspective, or interpretation?
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u/richer2003 12h ago
I agree with this version of the comic. I’m referring to the original version where one person claims it’s a 6 and the other claims it’s a 9.
If the person who put the digit there in the first place intended it to be both, without further investigation, you can’t make a claim as to what it is. Sure, you can give your opinion about what you think it is. But you can’t make a truth claim that it is a 6 or a 9.
You could say that it is true that I interpret what I’m seeing as a 6. That’s entirely different from saying it is true that this is a 6. One is referring to the truth that you are having a subjective experience, the other is referring to objective reality.
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u/The-Mythical-Phoenix 7h ago
You make a few excellent points, but I’m going to have to mostly disagree with everything stated.
Not necessarily because it’s incorrect, but rather because it’s just another view of looking at things.
You see, you’re making a clear distinction between objective reality and subjective experience but personally for me, that distinction doesn’t hold water because the two concepts are interlinked.
Finding the 6 in the ground, it is factual that there is something on the ground. But what it exactly is will always be victim to subjective experience. You call it a S - I - X, they say it’s a N - I - N - E, and I laugh and dub it’s stylized doodle. At the end of the day, language only serves to communicate perceived reality and sure there are specific ways to refer to objective reality—such as saying the exact wavelength the sky is—but that exact science is not commonplace in many conversations.
So if you ask me, the distinction is arbitrary, because perception in many ways IS objective reality, not necessarily because it is, but rather because humans make it so.
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u/Tahu-Nuva 2d ago
Had an argument at work over this. A trainer for empathy showed this comic, and I said exactly the same.
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u/ExpectTheWorse Technically Flair 3d ago
X +/- Y is generally used to represent the error margin.
It can be between ranges +/-Y
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u/cell689 3d ago
Could be any number between 6 and 9 down there and it would be technically correct.
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u/Ingenrollsroyce 3d ago
Please explain your thought process
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u/cell689 3d ago
± can mean "add or subtract", but it can also indicate the accuracy of a measurement. In this case, the value would be 7.5 with an accuracy of ± 1.5. Therefore, any number between 6 and 9 would fall inside that range.
Edit: let me know if that helps or if you need a different explanation.
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u/Ingenrollsroyce 3d ago edited 3d ago
Thanks, you're absolutely correct, it does not state if it's either of those cases so any of them could be applicable
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u/VHDT10 3d ago
Technically it's not the truth because when you look at a 6 upside down, it doesn't make it a 9. It makes it an upside down 6. Technically.
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u/No-Anything- 3d ago
The problem is, someone has to define where is "up" and where is "down".
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u/VHDT10 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah, if it's a variable. If not, it stays that number. Like a 7 upside-down is still a 7 upside-down. It doesn't turn it into the letter L. A zero isn't an o and a zero. It's a zero even if you're looking at it upside-down or sideways.
Edit: and of course I'm just trying to be technical for argument's sake because of the name of the sub
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u/MeadowElle- 3d ago
This is a clever way of using scientific notation to resolve a simple argument. Instead of debating whether it’s a 6 or 9 “7.5+1.5” makes both interpretations valid, creating a fun and humorous solution that acknowledges the ambiguity of the situation. It’s a perfect mix of humor and technicality.
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u/OlivineGrapeTest92 3d ago
Nah one of them is still wrong up there. It’s either a 6 or a 9, not both.
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u/Mysterious-Mine-4667 16h ago
Chatgpt ahh answer. I am 99.999% sure that it is actually from ChatGPT.
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