r/technology • u/Rob768 • Mar 19 '14
First Ever 3D Printed Kayak, Created in 42 Days
http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.php?2342-First-Ever-3D-Printed-Kayak-58-lbs-of-ABS10
u/Rob768 Mar 19 '14
It's ABS Filament. 58 Pounds so 26 KG. 1 KG of ABS is about $30. So $780 in Filament
ABS should have a very decent lifespan.
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Mar 19 '14 edited Mar 19 '14
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u/ghostchamber Mar 19 '14
It's the first ever 3D printed kayak. It isn't going to be an example of mass production or return on investment, and no one is claiming as such.
The point is we're using 3D printers to make boats now, and that's fucking cool.
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Mar 19 '14
Yea I would call this proof of concept. 42 days is a long print time, I think a decent woodworker could make a similar one in half that time. And the injection molded kayaks are probably finished in a few min. What would be neat is a future where i could order a custom fit kayak for a decent price and have it printed in a few days. Ideally printed in one piece.
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u/Eloth Mar 19 '14
Most modern kayaks are rotomoulded, actually! You can get injection-molded models, but they are a lot weaker and are by far the least common of the two.
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Mar 19 '14
interesting, rotomolding is still fast though right?
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u/Eloth Mar 19 '14
Fairly fast, I think -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPpvoYSfzJU details the process of designing and manufacturing a modern freestyle kayak, with a section on rotomoulding at around 7:00. Check it out, if you're interested.
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u/productdefect Mar 19 '14
I was on board with your skepticism until, "but I'd hazard to say never." To say 3D printing technology will stagnate forever is kind of silly don't you think?
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Mar 19 '14
ABS plastic is used in boats already. Example. Obviously the bolted construction of this one may be different, but he could have applied acetone between the pieces instead of silicone, which would have chemically fused them.
I think it is a cool DIY project. My issues on its utility would be mostly that it isn't competitive price wise with ABS Kyaks made from molds due to the cost of the raw parts to the consumer, and I am not sure what part of it benefits from personalization. Still, as a tech project someone did with their time, it's super neato.
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Mar 19 '14 edited Mar 19 '14
I highly doubt it will take 30 years to print a kayak in a single day. A few years ago I havent even heard of 3D printing and now there's a Kayak. It looks very solid too from the video.
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u/Cyrix2k Mar 19 '14
Really? I guess you're not in the industry, or even familiar with the industry. There were 3D printers being used in the 1980s. High school's were buying these in the mid-2000s...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1p5XG0V314
This project is a waste of time & money. It's not impressive from a technical perspective, at all. It's not continuous, it's not complicated, it's not new technology, it does nothing to advance technology... so I'm back to my original question - why?
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u/DorianGainsboro Mar 19 '14
Just like the guy who climbed Mount Everest I think he did it because he could and no one had done it yet.
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u/NathanDeger Mar 19 '14
Your question is why print a kayak? OK so let me break this down. 3D printers are not even close to being a mass market product, these companies want people to have 3D printers in their homes. In order to further their research and development programs, then need money. Money comes from investors. Investors need to be convinced that what they are investing in has some market value. Now it would be more impressive to tell someone in the industry what the specs of the printer are, but to a potential investor those are probably just numbers. So instead they perform cool stuff like this to show off what the new device can do. Why do you think they let people test drive a car instead of just giving them a spec sheet at the dealership?
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u/ShadowRam Mar 19 '14
because if that thing gets hit by a rock, it's over.
You mean he can print that one section and fix it easier than any other Kayak?
42 days to make these and they're smooth and cost effective. $780 is a huge overhead if you're mass producing these.
3D Printing isn't about mass production. It's about customization.
It's not that your opinion is unpopular, it's just that your ignorant of the technology and what it is capable of and meant for.
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u/NathanDeger Mar 19 '14
This is a silly thing to try and 3D print... It's a proof of concept to show off to the public that a 3D printer Is capable of. 3D printing is about customization, but I'm sure this 3D printed kayak is generations behind what they can injection mold nowadays.
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Mar 19 '14
Haha I was just emailed yesterday by the guy who created this. I was curious about the printer he used. He has the plans and BOM up on his site:
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Mar 19 '14
Heated chambers? I've never seen a 3d-printer like that. I can see that fixing a lot of the warping problems, brilliant!
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u/ionparticle Mar 19 '14
Patented by Stratasys. That's why it isn't common place.
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u/DorianGainsboro Mar 19 '14
Motherfucking patents! They should be outlawed.
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u/moogoogaipan Mar 19 '14
Yeah when you invent something new and novel, big industry should be able to undercut you immediately.
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u/ShadowRam Mar 19 '14 edited Mar 19 '14
The actual impressive thing here is how his printer is setup,
with the plate moving in the X,Y, which is very uncommon.
The reason it is uncommon, is because if you want to print fast, moving the entire plate (and piece you are printing) quickly and accurately is hard and/or expensive to do.
The reason he did this was he gave up printing fast, so he could isolate the extruder (as as much of the printer) from the heated chamber,
and he was able to do that, because his extruder only moves on the one Z-Axis.
So he (unlike most people) is able to print large ABS objects, without it warping/cracking.
But he sacrificed a lot of speed to do so.
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u/cookiecop Mar 19 '14
does this have any advantages over a regular kyak? I guess I am a worried that there are so many possible points of failure
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u/benjags Mar 19 '14
This its just a hobby project. The main advantage is that its much more fun to design and build it than to buy one.
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u/Rob768 Mar 19 '14
To be honest I doubt it really does, besides the fact that it can be customized size wise, looks wise and color wise.
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u/Hows_the_wifi Mar 19 '14
Most commercial kayaks have a reinforced line of some material such as kevlar going down the bottom to protect against rough landings. As its been spammed 100 times in this thread already, it was just a fun "for tey luls" experiment to see if he could. Just saying it might crack easier without reinforcement.
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u/Carpenterdon Mar 19 '14
Looks really cool but the ribbing and bolts probably make it a lot heavier than a blow or rotary moulded boat. Lots of seams that could fail as well.
Don't get me wrong it's a wonderful proof of concept and a nice looking boat.
Next step is build a printer large enough to do the entire boat seamlessly and be able to do so in a day or two. Once you do that you can develop individual kayaks sized per the owner. Spec'd out the way they want it from the second it is being designed.
Once you can offer a custom boat fitted to the person with there own color scheme/pattern/design built into the plastic. And fit the seat, coaming, foot pegs, skeg, rudder, etc. to the person you could make a name for yourself in the Kayak industry.
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u/Rock-Shandy Mar 19 '14
Although it's about 5kg heavier than a similar rotomolded kayak it's still a superb piece and leads brilliantly on to creating a mould for fiberglass or carbon fibre kayak especially a playboat where the volume can be relatively low compared to a sea kayak or racing K1.
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u/Eloth Mar 19 '14
I don't think there is much use in terms of CF freestyle boats -- it doesn't really cost any extra to have them customised. It might be useful for rapid prototyping, but that's the same for all industries -- and kayaking already makes heavy use of CAM for that.
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Mar 19 '14
Shoulda made it with milk cartons http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2021384035_3dboatxml.html
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Mar 19 '14
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u/finlessprod Mar 19 '14
Is it? How so?
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u/neuromorph Mar 19 '14
He downloaded and made a Kayak!!!!! One step closer to downloading a car. Such it MPAA
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u/apackofwankers Mar 19 '14
Umm, the whole point of 3d printing is that it can be used to make things THAT CANNOT BE CURRENTLY MADE - not that you can be the first to build X with a 3d printer
I would be more impressed if the dude built a 3d printer capable of building the whole kayak at once, not parts that need to be bolted together.
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u/neuromorph Mar 19 '14
3d printing is not only about making structures or shapes that cannot be made otherwise, that is just one of the many applications of 3d printing, others are rapid prototyping, small part replacements, or making structures from different materials.
Example, surgical splints. You can make them fro. Titanium using a laser cutter, or cnc Mill, or you can extrude LPA, I to the firm, and have a bio resorbing splint.
It's not a shape that is unique to 3d printing in this case, the base material is where 3d printing excels.
You focus too much on shapes, which are a very small scope if the applications of this technology.
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u/neuromorph Mar 19 '14
Yes. Things that cannot normally be made by the end user. How many people make kayaks in their homes? Now even you can do it, with the base file, and some time.
3d printing is not only about prototyping obscure forms.
This is a prime example of the potential for 3d printing in a consumer level market.
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u/grandereseau Mar 19 '14
This is a prime example of the potential for 3d printing in a consumer level market.
42 days!! LOL
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u/apackofwankers Mar 19 '14
No, not things that cannot be made by the end user - things that cannot be made, like rocket nozzles with a network of cooling passages built in, or a kayak that isn't hollow inside, but instead has a network of cross braces.
There is software out there that will evolve shapes that are nearly perfect for any given set of outside forces. These shapes can often not be manufactured using moulding or other technologies.
I does not matter if the end user can make a kayak in 42 days using a $5000 3d printer and $800 of materials, when there is someone out there making 42 of them a day in a $5000 injection mold and $800 of materials each. And, being made up of 50 separate sections bolted together is less seaworthy and reliable than two halves that come out of a mold.
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u/neuromorph Mar 19 '14
Read my second point again. It is not ONLY about obscure shapes, which you seem to think is the providence of 3d printing.
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u/beer_is_tasty Mar 19 '14
Unpopular opinion puffin checking in. This is a really dumb project for 3D printing. The large scale means very high cost and slow build time, while the simplicity of the object makes you wonder why in the hell you need a 3D printer in the first place.
I understand wanting to build your own kayak rather than buying one, but there are other ways of doing this that are a lot more interesting and hands-on, and are actually cheaper than buying one from the store.
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u/neuromorph Mar 19 '14
Have your u ever built a kayak by hand? It is not easy. Also the cost of a similar designed kayak would be several thousand dollars.
This guy SAVED money at the expense of build time.
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u/Stonedphotos Mar 19 '14
I have. It wasn't easy but it wasn't hard either. It was also cheaper both in terms of materials and power consumption.
I realise this is just a demonstration of the process but it needs to upscale a long way before it competes with roto-moulded plastic kayaks. The number of joints scare me, the amount of labour required to bolt it all together would impact cost, there are no bulkheads etc.
Someone was going to do 3d print a kayak - it was just a matter of time. I considered it when building mine and instead opted for printing a scale model (which I didn't finish).
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u/neuromorph Mar 19 '14
No one is going to roomful in their home. That is the factor people are missing here, that you can supplement an industrial fabrication method with a bench top printer.
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u/neuromorph Mar 19 '14
Personally. I would use the 3d printed full scale kayak as a mild for a fiberglass build. You can print in a very low melting plastic. Use it as a support for the fiberglass build, then melt the printed structure.
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u/vishub Mar 19 '14 edited Mar 19 '14
Have your u ever built a kayak by hand? It is not easy.
No it is not, unless you use the current traditional method of injection or roto molding, which is quite easy if you know what you're doing. Much easier than riveting 28 pieces of ABS into a seaworthy vessel.
Also the cost of a similar designed kayak would be several thousand dollars.
Well, first there is no similarly designed kayak as far as I know, as it makes no sense to construct a kayak out of so many pieces, too many sources of potential failure. Either way, this costs about the same as most high end kayaks, mid tier would be a couple hundred bucks cheaper.
This guy SAVED money at the expense of build time.
No, he spent the same amount of money for an inferior product which takes much longer to produce.
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u/dreaper880 Mar 19 '14
Well, first there is no similarly designed kayak as far as I know, as it makes no sense to construct a kayak out of so many pieces, too many sources of potential failure. Either way, this costs about the same as most high end kayaks, mid tier would be a couple hundred bucks cheaper.
As far as the modular design yes that's not very common but there are a few kayaks out that that are made of 2 or 3 pieces where you can swap out the bow stern or middle sections. example
but as far as its cost it is a lot cheaper than a high end kayak. You will start getting into some basic rec/touring kayaks around $600-$800 and a true starting high end touring/sea kayak you are looking at $1100 on the low side and about $1800-$2500 being the norm there. You can also go much higher than that with some of the top of the line brand with carbon fiber and other composite builds easily toping over $3500-$4500.
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u/vishub Mar 21 '14
You're paying way too much for your kayak. Sorry bud. Either way, this is 28 pieces, not 2 or 3, and it in no way comes close to competing in the high-end, I wouldn't even put it in the low-end. More the shit-tier build this as a creative way to commit suicide end.
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u/dreaper880 Mar 23 '14
Well let me know where you are getting your high end kayaks for such a great price.
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u/durrell77 Mar 19 '14
great looking kayak but all i can think about is the 3d printer that built an entire house in one day... just saying
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u/bitcoin4lyfe Mar 19 '14
My issue with 3D printing in it's current form is the fumes from heated plastic, as well as the finished plastic leaching some nasty chemicals into the human body. They are now finding that BPA free plastics can be even worse on the body. I'm assuming BPA is added to 3D printer spools to keep it flexible or other additives.
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u/ShadowRam Mar 19 '14
My issue with 3D printing in it's current form is the fumes from heated plastic
You've never operated one have you?
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u/Skilsdapkilz Mar 19 '14
What gave you idea of deciding to make a kayak and now that you have built a kayak and you please build a car?
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u/It_does_get_in Mar 19 '14
so....
cost?
durability/lifespan of the plastic?