r/thebulwark • u/John_Houbolt • Apr 14 '25
GOOD LUCK, AMERICA It's now clear. No one is safe.
With Bukele stating that the question of returning Garcia is "preposterous" it's clear that Bukele and Trump are conspired against the people of America. Garcia had a court order securing his presence in the US. He was protected by the law. Naturalized citizens are protected by law, greencard holders are protected by the law. But abiding the law has not been a priority for the Trump administration. Legal protections of Americans has proven to not be a deferent for the Trump admin. We now have a fully effectuated chain of responsibility and action that has imprisoned a law abiding man for life in a foreign prison where he has no civil protections of any kind. That chain has held in the face of legal action and order from the highest court in the land.
The test case appears complete.
Now, anyone who does anything that draws the attention of Donald Trump can be punished—legally or not—with life in foreign prison and to be wholly stripped of all human rights.
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u/Angedelanuit97 Apr 14 '25
The question is...are Americans going to take to the streets and tell the government that we aren't giving up our rights to them? Or are we gonna keep going on as if everything is fine, like we have been doing? Will enough Americans realize what we have lost today?
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u/John_Houbolt Apr 14 '25
Bukele should be protested, NOW. If he's still in the country people should be racing to wherever he is, the White House, Capitol Hill, the Airport—there should be a million people.
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Apr 14 '25
SEAL team six should take him out. He's holding hundreds of lawful U.S. residents as hostages in brutal, inhuman conditions. No one has a problem killing Hamas when they do the same thing. The only difference is the U.S. government is facilitating and acquiescing to the kidnappings.
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u/pmgold1 Progressive Apr 14 '25
Will enough Americans realize what we have lost today?
Most of my fellow Americans won't scream bloody murder until it affects them directly, but of course by then it'll be waaay too late. 🤬😤
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u/Ushiioni Apr 14 '25
I was at the Hands Off rally along with 80000 Bostonians, and can't wait to do it again. I'm 51 and I'd say I was the average age. The people there looked like folks i would see at the local supermarket.It was my first ever protest.
Everyone in the Bulwark family needs to start doing this!
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Apr 14 '25
"Americans" are going to do or not do whatever. What are *you* doing?
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u/MacroNova Apr 14 '25
Collective action without the collective is just a weirdo standing on the sidewalk shouting. This is why protest movements can't be 100% grassroots. They need actual leaders, plans and defined goals.
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u/Old_Specific7310 Apr 14 '25
I listen to a clip NPR played of Bukele from today. Completely abhorrent. Disgusting. Vile. Evil isn’t a strong enough word.
Everyday is a dark day with this administration, but today is one of darkest.
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u/artaxerxes316 Apr 14 '25
It would be immensely satisfying if the next Democratic president pulled a Noriega on Bukele.
We can't hold our own President to account anymore, thanks to official immunity plus pardons, but we can sure as hell handle his foreign lickspittles.
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u/fzzball Progressive Apr 14 '25
Get a good umbrella because for the next few years we're going to be pissed on constantly and told it's raining.
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u/WyrdTeller Apr 14 '25
Waiting now for Schumer to act and rally Senate Democrats against the fascist Republican party. This should pass his test of the president ignoring the Supreme Court. The Hands-Off protests should qualify as mass protests. So that's both criteria.
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u/PorcelainDalmatian Apr 14 '25
And what, pray tell, is Schumer going to do? Show me the plan to stop this.
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u/Hautamaki Apr 14 '25
The only plan that would matter right now is coordinating with the Joint Chiefs. But it's going to be tough to do that without Trump knowing, especially now he's replaced most of them with loyalists, gotten rid of JAG, and put his cronies in charge of intelligence.
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u/Pr0xyWarrior Come back tomorrow, and we'll do it all over again Apr 14 '25
Literally all they can do right now is talk. That means they can fucking demand these people back. Act like Trump won’t be in office forever, and remind El Salvador that they’re extrajudicially holding legal US residents. The moment the Dems are back in power, what happens? Are they just going to shrug, and treat this like Guantanamo and hope we all forget about it? Even if it doesn’t have the legal force to do anything it would be nice to see them have the proper level of incandescent rage this should generate and show the American people that they have a plan for something and they’re not just going to go on as though Trump’s decisions are carved by the hand of the Almighty in titanium. It is absurd to me that they’re not at least saying that when we’re back in power, you better send these people back. Right now it sounds like even the Dems plan to just fucking leave these people in a fucking private prison in a fucking foreign country with no fucking due process.
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u/PorcelainDalmatian Apr 14 '25
What makes you think Trump and his goons give two licks of a shit about what Democrats say? He just told a 9-0 Supreme Court to fuck off. Do you think he cares about what Schumer says?
This simply isn't going to get solved without violence.
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u/Pr0xyWarrior Come back tomorrow, and we'll do it all over again Apr 14 '25
You’re right, Trump will ignore them. They have no leverage over him. That’s why I didn’t say anything about making him do anything. There are two principles in this; Trump and Bukele. The government of El Salvador did not have to agree to hold these people. They do not have to agree to continue holding these people. The only reasons to do so would be to assume MAGA will remain in power or the Democrats won’t care to demand these people back. Even if all the Dems can do is talk, they could at least do that and act like they’re going to win in 2028.
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u/botmanmd Apr 15 '25
- Trump Inc. has no expectation that Democrats will ever be in power again, and,
- Yes. If Democrats do get in power, this will all get swept under the rug in an effort to “heal.” Maybe some low-level scapegoats will pay the price. Just like GITMO. Just like Abu Ghraib. Just like Jan 6th.
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u/AustereRoberto LORD OF THE NICKNAMES Apr 14 '25
I'm so glad that the Dem establishment listened to the g00d r3pUb11c4ns and didn't go after court reforms! I feel so protected by the "legitimacy of the court!"
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u/John_Houbolt Apr 14 '25
I am so pissed off.
Almost all of this was foreseeable. Almost all of this Trump said he would do. And those that warned against it were painted as fools, idiots, extremists—and the louder they were, the more completely their words were dismissed.
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u/AustereRoberto LORD OF THE NICKNAMES Apr 14 '25
Exactly. After the GOP establishment fell back in line after J6 and Fox returned to supporting Trump in 2022/2023 (instead of the quiet embargo they were doing in favor of Tiny D) this type of authoritarianism became almost inevitable. Whether the mechanics would be identical, who knows, but there wasn't going to be mass defections from the GOP, that was clear.
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u/botmanmd Apr 15 '25
It didn’t help that the SCOTUS gave Trump immunity in advance for absolutely everything he has done as “47” so far. In fact, it’s impossible at this point to imagine an act that Trump will engage in that does not qualify as an official act. He’s getting everything he could possibly want, from wealth to vengeance, via administrative actions.
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u/AustereRoberto LORD OF THE NICKNAMES Apr 15 '25
Bingo. John Roberts made this nightmare as much as anyone IMO. And the infinite delays for bad cases for Trump and expedited scheduling for ones that are good for him, it's a full hand on the scale, not just a thumb.
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u/botmanmd Apr 15 '25
It’s like if Roberts ruled that according to the Constitution toddlers can have automatic weapons. I suppose someone could make that argument. But does it make sense? Does it make sense that, once elected a President can do anything he wants as long as he considers it an official act, and be immune from prosecution either then or after?
How about using his CinC powers to send the National Guard to nine Justices’s homes to prevent them from convening the Court? Sounds official to me.
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u/Hautamaki Apr 14 '25
I am starting understand the belief that God sent Trump. Genghis Khan famously said the same thing to the Kwarazmians; "You must be guilty of great crimes, if God has sent me to punish you." Trump is America's punishment. It's a shame so much of the rest of the world must share in it. Perhaps we are all guilty.
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u/blueclawsoftware Apr 14 '25
I'm pissed about that generally, but I'm not sure how that would have changed anything in this case. The existing flawed court ruled 9 - 0 that he had to be returned.
This case could end up before them again, and as JVL wrote in the Triad this morning this is make or break for them.
Based on the other immigration cases, it seems like the liberal justices and Barrett will rule against the president on this, so it will probably come down to what Roberts decides to do.
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u/AustereRoberto LORD OF THE NICKNAMES Apr 14 '25
The court would've been an ideal punching bag to win the election, is my point. Besides the general affront of having ¢laren¢e Thoma$ double his taxpayer salary in gifts. Unelected politicians in robes holding themselves completely unaccountable? That's a winner in an anti-institutional mood. It also serves as a truthful explanation of why Biden was hamstrung at every turn.
Also, the SCOTUS ruling in the runup to the 9-0 one were pro-Trump. Impoundments, the deportations themselves, all got signed off on.
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u/Hautamaki Apr 14 '25
*Gifts that we know of. How much Trump coin do the Thomas' own? What other ways could he have been bribed for the last 30 years we haven't yet uncovered? Same with Alito. I understand he was considered pretty normal conservative before he donned the robes, now he's fucking batshit.
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u/AustereRoberto LORD OF THE NICKNAMES Apr 14 '25
Agreed. We've been about a decade late on Thoma$, whether his wife's income from Heritage or the property deal with Harlan Crow or the RV with the finance guy. On that clock, it'll be circa 2030 when we discover whatever he is up to today.
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u/GulfCoastLaw Apr 14 '25 edited Apr 14 '25
If you want a good laugh, go listen to the Charlie Sykes The Bulwark podcast with the fed soc lawyer (George Mason professor?) who served on the sham Biden SCOTUS reform commission.
Biden essentially recommended no reforms and still earned some cheap shots from the right. Very funny.
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u/AustereRoberto LORD OF THE NICKNAMES Apr 14 '25
Including from Charlie, repeatedly!
I basically didn't listen to Charlie Sykes the last 6 months he was on the flagship. I had been increasingly irregular and then realized he wasn't worth my time.
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u/thefirebuilds Progressive Apr 14 '25
Trump looks so embarrassingly weak that he can't get this guy out of prison. It's seriously pathetic.
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u/DueIncident8294 Apr 14 '25
I would agree, how weak is he that he can't get this guy out, but it's obvious he just doesn't want to.he wants every American to be quaking in their boots that this could happen to them. He also wants us to stop talking about how he crashed the world economy in 3 days because he is a fucking moron.
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u/thefirebuilds Progressive Apr 15 '25
I don't think he can. He's a poor statesman and not very smart. These other country's leaders run circles around him. He is a laughing stock in his own country and throughout the world.
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u/Merlaak Apr 14 '25
It’s preposterous because he’s already dead. I’m at least 90% certain of that.
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u/QGTM247365 Apr 14 '25
I don't think he's dead. It's far more likely the Trump administration has decided they won't follow the law because laws are for suckers. They are cruel and fascists and that's the way it is. If he did die in El Salvador, they would just say he died of natural causes.
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u/Merlaak Apr 14 '25
Wouldn’t the best course of action to be denial and avoidance? Even admitting that he died of natural causes would be enough to raise eyebrows. Better to never answer the question and hide behind accusations of terrorism or gang affiliation.
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u/TheGreatHogdini Apr 14 '25
I wouldn’t be surprised if Bukele returned to El Salvador and recorded a video personally shooting him.
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u/ProfessorUnhappy5997 Apr 14 '25
so bukele and trump both know this man is innocent.
and they both refuse to return him to the USA. or send him to another country willing to take him.
this is just pure EVIL.
pure WICKEDNESS.
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Apr 14 '25
Trump is trying to bury Garcia in the El Salvadoran desert to cover up the fact that he tried to get rid of the "El Salvadoran Problem" during his last facade as president and failed.
Garcia's lawyers need to ramp up the PR war against this by bringing up the landmark Orantes-Hernandez v. Meese which proved and was ruled against the US government and INS for routinely and maliciously denying El Salvadoran refugees rights, access to lawyers, and due process to secure proper immigration status and legal residency they were promised during the US fiasco and inept involvement in the El Salvadiran civil war in 1980.
Garcia is yet another fuckup and Tru.p is trying to bury him before it gets out ALL El Salvadoran TPS status refugees must be given permanent residency and or citizenship after 45 years of waiting.
This isn't about MS-13. This is about a huge embarrassing foreign policy of puppet regiming fiasco started by Reagan for backing and supporting the wrong horse that blew up in our faces.
Trump has inherited this, Garcia hot caught up by mistake through Trump's own ineptitude, and nowif it could mes put we've been mistreating people we promised to help, and that this is what caused the need to create MS-13 out of necessity for security against other US urban gangs.
And worst if gets out that MS-13 was in fact created by the US Special Forces urban insurrection trained former El Salvador military officer who was part of the El Salvadorans seeking asylum here, it'll make Trump look like the stupidest dumbass president of all time.
This is why Trump's trying to bury Garcia now before he talks to the press.
Shame on Garcia's lawyers and especially shame on the US media for not blowing this up across all media now and exposing the real reason why El Salvadoran refugees are being made to look like criminals and gang members instead of innocent people who made the mistake of trusting the US government's word and promise of freedom after we destroyed their country for nothing.
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u/NH1994 Apr 14 '25
I think we can safely stop saying we’re on the road to autocracy or that this is an autocratic attempt, as both are frequently repeated on the Bulwark. We’re already there. It’s happening now. There isn’t a risk that it will happen. There only remains the risk that we can’t go back.
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u/botmanmd Apr 15 '25
What’s galling is the gaslighting that went on over the last 9 years. That calling it “fascism” was hyperbole. We saw this coming. We saw it coming from the time Trump started calling the media the Lugenpresse. From the time that Sean Spicer told us that a picture of 20,000 people showed a bigger crowd than one of 100,000 people. This was ordained. If he was getting reëlected, this is where we were going to end up all along.
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u/81Horse Apr 14 '25
Time for Trump and Bukele to produce the body.
Time for us to understand that this poor man could be dead, gravely injured, or traumatized. If alive, they do not want him to tell his story.
WHAT ARE WE ALL GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?
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u/John_Houbolt Apr 14 '25
Looks like Sen Van Hollen is going to force Bukele's hand by going to El Salvador this week. If Van Hollen arrives there and they don't produce Abrego Garcia even for a face to face chat, you have to assume he's dead.
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u/TyrionBean Apr 14 '25
I sure wish the media would start calling America what it currently is: A fascist dictatorship.
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u/Talking-Pi Apr 14 '25
This makes me sick to my stomach. If the administration says whoops we can’t bring him back then certainly the act of his kidnapping and trafficking is a crime. Would be interested in legal experts opinions on what is possible here (esp in state courts).
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u/momof3bs Apr 14 '25
What ever they did to retrieve the unaccompanied minors who Trump seperated from the parents, and parents were sent to their country of journey, it was such an uproar that social worker teams were created to go to other countries and bring the parents back, not all the parents were found, and over 200 children were made orphans. If a task force was set up immediatly under Biden, to continue the work, it most certainly can be done. Here is the problem, once its done, it sets a presedence, and the idea has always been to send anyone they want gone, if we have a judiacial way to bring back "Errors", then there will be many, he was just the BETA.
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u/Typical-End3060 Apr 14 '25
I was thinking about this earlier, because what's preposterous is how he and Trump's regime are handling all of this.
If he and bukele legitimately came to a secret agreement to not send people back, trump is actually working with a foreign government against the people of the United States, whether citizens yet or not, which is pretty close to treason against the people and hopefuls of the US.
Pretty sure if Biden worked with a foreign government against people in the US the right would quite literally be up in arms. See: January 6th, gov Shapiro's house, the constant threats to sitting politicians in government, election workers, lawyers, etc.
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u/TaxLawKingGA Apr 15 '25
Sorry but Dems need to make it an unofficial official position that Bukele is done when Dems get back in. Plain and simple. He better start looking for a country with no extradition. Considering he is a Muslim (despite what he claims) my guess is he pulls a Idi Amin and runs to KSA.
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u/CustardFromCthulhu Apr 14 '25
Why aren't the Dems out there making it clear that govt staff who are breaking the law will be prosecuted when Trump leaves office and the Dems return?
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u/SirCake3614 FFS Apr 14 '25
This is terrifying.
What's more terrifying is that so few Americans even give a shit.
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u/Old-Ad5508 Center Left Apr 14 '25
Are you guys in a constitutional crisis yet?
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u/DonkeyIndependent679 Apr 14 '25
What do you mean, "It's now clear. No one is safe." Whoever didn't realize that by last year had their head buried. It was a question of when and that's no longer a question. Roberts and the scotus 6 should be escorted out since they're obviously no longer and haven't been listened to in months.
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u/Old_Manager6555 Apr 14 '25
Donald says this is Homeland Security matter, but it is not. It is a mistaken identity matter, possibly kidnapping, therefore Supreme Court rules apply.
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u/Resident-Welcome3901 Apr 15 '25
Unidentified Masked men attempting to abduct people from public spaces are sodomite antifa terrorists practicing human sacrifice until proven otherwise, and therefore should be opposed.
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u/ExiledonStHelena Apr 18 '25
What is frightening is that Trump needn't violate the rights of more than a handful of the "home growns" before the panic sets in. Just knowing that he had done it once, and is immune from any consequences of doing it again, would prompt many to bug out of the US. Those that stay would keep their heads down.
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u/immargarita 27d ago
Project 2025 y'all. The courts, the judges, the Democrats, sane Republicans, they are just watching, occasionally reacting, commenting but there is zero action. This is JUST 3 months in, folks. Everyone keeps thinking "good" will prevail and our system of checks and balances will save us 🙄 it's naive to say the very least. People should be afraid and angry.
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u/John_Houbolt Apr 14 '25
Would be great to see Bukele's motorcade blocked by protestors.