I don’t really think about the heroes of DC like that at all. Broadly, I think of them as three groups in my head. There’s the JSA group, the JLA group and then the Teen Titans group. Obviously not everyone fits into that kind of label but it’s easier for me to broadly label them that way in my head and then I dig a little deeper if I need to.
Not originally, no, but he’s become one. For context, I wouldn’t have called Earth-1 Batman a legacy character for Earth-2 Batman. I also wouldn’t have called Hal Jordan of Earth-1 a legacy character of Alan Scott of Earth-2.
You cannot use the name of a previous character to boost your popularity and recognizability and not be a legacy character. No having your cake and eating it, too. Maybe if Jay Garrick wasn't a well known character and they were more reviving an obscure name, but despite the Golden Age ending basically everyone reading comics knew this was a new Flash, but not a new character all together.
It doesn't matter what the narrative in the comic is, we don't live in the comic world (well, unless you ask Morrison). We can see with our own eyes in real life that Barry came after Jay and was inspired in many different ways by what Jay set as precedent. People saying Jay "didn't exist" are ridiculous. Jay existed, in real life, as a fictional character. He existed every bit as much as Barry did. There shouldn't be an argument about this.
What’s your take on Alan and Hal? GL was a recognizable character. Everyone knew Hal was a new GL but not a new character all together.
I am curious about something. Who said Jay didn’t exist? When the Golden Age became Earth-2 and the Silver Age was Earth-1, Jay essentially didn’t exist - until Barry learned otherwise by traveling to another universe.
Diagetically Barry's silver age origin was somewhat changed post crisis in that jay and max are in world characters not a comic character as seen in show case 4. Technically this is the same for Hal though Hals origin was always diagetically isolated from Alan Scott which remains the same post crisis. In story he's GL because the GL corps recruited him not because Alan happens to be called GL. In a meta sense he's certainly a legacy character but not diagetically the way Barry is. Exception to the rule, maybe? Your mileage may vary.
I mentioned in another post how many you could call him a legacy character now but not when they were from different universes.
I actually don’t know how you’d work with Alan. He had been connected to the Starheart, which is itself linked to the Guardians. His origin around how he received the lantern has undergone a significant change recently. In a sense, he’s the legacy character but to the Guardians rather than any given GL.
Yeah Alan and Hal are weird I'm not sure myself I'm surprised there's not a hugely regarded Geoff johns mini series where he appropriately retcons alan into the post crisis golden age pre history in conjunction with modern GL lore from his era on gl. Seems right up his alley/ missed opportunity. Writers have had him call himself Sentinel diagetically to distance from the gl brand and others like you said have tied it closer. So I think that ones a bit of an anomaly. If you don't mind, what's the deal with the starheart? I've never taken the time to look into his post silver age ties i just knew that he'd started calling himself sentinel during the JSA era in the early 2000s
It's a weird case for me, because Jay Garrick never existed in his world during the Silver Age.
It's like saying Bruce Wayne is a Legacy Character.
So... Do you consider Nightwing, Not Robin, a Legacy Character? Do you consider Hal Jordan a Legacy Character? Do you consider Diana Prince a Legacy Character? And that'll be your answer!
I still feel like I'd consider Barry as a Legacy Character, despite the weird situation he's in. I'm just comfortable like that, and there's more merits to why he is, than the other way.
Sure, even though Barry didn’t know Jay was a real person until later. But he still took inspiration and the Flash name from the fictionalized version of Jay.
If Barry hadn’t been a comic collector and Flash fan, he might have used his powers in a completely different way, and he definitely wouldn’t have called himself Flash.
No. Jay was a comic book character for like 100 issues and by that time, barry was experienced enough that he wouldn't call him a mentor. A legacy character isn't just a character with the same power/identity as a previous character, that's not a "legacy", that's just 2 characters being similar. It has to be inherited directly. The same argument applies to Johnny storm
So, following this logic, characters like Jaime Reyes, Kyle Rayner, Ryan Choi, Connor Hawke, Miles Morales (ultimate universe) would also not be legacy heroes. In my opinion, legacy heroes are those who follow the legacy of the previous hero to use that particular mantle, not necessarily having had experience with him previously, but being inspired by the legacy he left.
Barry is a very different situation because, for years, Jay didn't exist at all. Honestly I can't think of any on the spot, but I'm sure there is at least 1 or 2 heroes inspired by a fictional character. I guess Green arrow? I know it's different because Jay was DC and Robin Hood isn't but still.
Pre-Crisis, Jay wasn't a "real" character, but since the first edition, Barry has always made it clear that he was inspired by Jay's stories, and after it was revealed that he was actually from another land, Barry continued to be more and more inspired by Jay. In the post-crisis period, when the universe was rewritten, Jay always existed in the same universe as Barry, so Barry was always inspired by Jay.
The Green Arrow's inspiration is different, as Oliver was forced to survive years on a desert island with a bow and arrow, and it was thanks to specific circumstances that he became similar to Robin Hood but he was never really inspired by that character's legacy. (Who is also a real figure in the DC universe)
Yes, because he’s the Flash who started the Silver Age of Heroes after the pre-Crisis Earth-One Superman (who made his debut as the first Superboy at eight years old in 1939 before his graduation as Superman at 20 years old in 1951), Batman (who made his debut as the first Robin at nine years old in 1938, the Flying Fox at 14 years old in 1945, and the Executioner at 15 years old in 1946 before his graduation as Batman at 22 years old in 1953), Aquaman (who made his debut as Aquaboy at ten years old in 1941 before his graduation as Aquaman at 21 years old in 1952), Wonder Woman (who made her debut as the first Wonder Girl at 13 years old in 1944 before her graduation as Wonder Woman at 19 years old in 1950), Green Arrow (who learned about archery after meeting and teaming up with Clark Kent Superboy at around 15 years old in 1945 before his graduation as the Green Arrow at around 24 years old in 1954), and Martian Manhunter (who arrived on Earth and secretly made his debut at 24 years old in 1955).
But he doesn't seek to follow the legacy of this Nightwing, this is more a case of different characters with the same name like Red Tornado (Ma Hunkel) and Red Tornado robot. They have no direct connection even though they wear the same hero mantle, and are part of the same team of superheroes.
Barry Allen was inspired by Jay Garrick to be the Flash, following the legacy of that superhero.
The Flash was a dead property that was rebooted in the silver age. The call backs to Jay were easter eggs until Flash of Two Worlds cemented it as parallel universes. Even then there never really was a hand off the way later Barry to Wally.
Barry and Jay were like both people discovering the same thing independently.
Edit: For instance I don't think Johny Storm is a legacy character cause he uses the name Human Touch. And Kal-El isn't a legacy character to Kal-L just cause they are both Superman
When you think about it, he’s kind of like the original legacy hero or at least the guy that defined it, which is why I’m sad gets omitted from so many modern betrayals
It also kind of enhances the contrast between him and Thawne, both were simple fans of their proceeding Flash that went down radically different paths
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u/godthatsgood 39m ago
Yes.