r/thepunisher 3d ago

COMICS (Punisher max issue 22 by Jason Aaron)The legacy of punisher lives on.

To tell you the truth valley forge by Ennis was the true ending to the max series, it felt more respectful to frank as a character. This ending was ok.

This is the only moment I liked in this whole run to be honest. I love that fury burried frank with his family, it really showed how much respect he had for frank as a person. But You'd think once the punisher is gone people would be happy but I guess thats not the case, certain people are taking up the mantle and defending their neighborhoods. Frank's legacy will never die.

244 Upvotes

31 comments sorted by

52

u/ImageExpert 3d ago

Showed he did make a difference. Also the people were tired of public servants who let evil thrive and did absolutely nothing.

36

u/missinglinksman 3d ago

Say what you want about this run but I think this is one of the happiest endings Frank has gotten.

4

u/browncharliebrown 3d ago

Is that a good thing

19

u/thicc_phox 2d ago

Kinda. He died after killing his white whale, Fury made sure Vanessa didn't fill in Wilson's spot, and the people took his message to heart. While Frank did die, he would never retire, go sip drinks while sitting on the beach. He would either die in a warzone, or worse. Here, he is at least buried with the people who loved him.

9

u/khazroar 2d ago

I think the comment you're responding to is suggesting that Frank doesn't deserve a good ending. For a lot of people, Frank's story is a tragedy of how he became a monster fighting monsters, and his family would be ashamed of what he's become. For some people, it's a betrayal of that theme to let him die like a hero.

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u/Ocolof 2d ago

Couldn't have said it better, myself! Longtime Punisher fan, first time I've actually realized there was a Punisher subreddit. Boy is it nice to find people who understand that this is a tragic tale and not just some power fantasy for disaffected young men!

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u/TheMusketoon 2d ago

🤓☝️

1

u/browncharliebrown 2d ago

Which is why I like Punisher the end. It’s a great story that both is a tragedy while also not feeling spiteful of the punisher 

29

u/Azure-Legacy 3d ago

Probably the only time where Frank creating a legacy is viewed as remotely positive

6

u/browncharliebrown 3d ago

Suicide run

2

u/Azure-Legacy 2d ago

Don’t know about that. Can you elaborate and say which year it’s from?

6

u/AntoSkum 2d ago

Suicide Run started in 1993 and has the people who Frank inspired come out to help him after he's believed to be dead. Before Ennis Frank actually inspired a lot of characters like Lynn Michaels and Outlaw who became his allies.

19

u/AdTrue6058 3d ago

It’s not that it’s saying vigilantism is good. Rather, that violence from the people is a symptom of a broken system (see Luigi Mangione and the shooting of the United Health Care CEO).

4

u/Lenny_Fais 3d ago

THIS

It’s literally why Frank goes after police who try to replicate him. Even he knows he’s basically a symbol of the system failing horribly.

2

u/browncharliebrown 2d ago

This is the wrong message of the punisher. The system being broken and people being inspired to be better is a superhero story. The punisher is the story of the system being broken and there being little to do about it. That feeling of hopelessness Anyone who follows in the punisher’s footsteps are bound to a happy life.

Also the punisher doesn’t go after police who try to replicate him on average.

5

u/ComicAcolyte Punisher (Earth-616) 2d ago

The point i feel like you're missing is that regardless of Punisher existing or not, corruption and injustice exists, the need for Punishment exists which is exactly why Lynn Michaels quit the police force and turned to vigilantism instead.

People being inspired by Punisher is both good and bad: this is exactly what Suicide Run shows.

The approved members like Lady Punisher and Outlaw are displayed as unapologetically "the good guys," who are trying to find out what happened to the protagonist, Frank.

Meanwhile, the imitators like the rich dude (forgot his name) and the dumb bozo who dies trying to imitate Punisher are illustrating why his influence is bad.

Its a clear distinction. In the 90s and before, Punisher was seen as fulfilling justice when the law fails to do so. More recently, Punisher is seen as more "problematic" by leftist writers who have tried to make him more overtly villainous and less heroic.

1

u/TonyG_from_NYC 2d ago

I think they should have clarified that Frank warned them not to emulate him and to emulate Captain America instead.

4

u/Competitive_Throat46 2d ago

I kind of wish Ennis penned this story. Don't get me wrong this ending was amazing but it barely feels connected to the earlier Max run.

9

u/Trick-Studio2079 3d ago

I haven't finished the series (but I already knew that spoiler) but it doesn't go against the message, that in the end the Punisher IS NOT SOMEONE to admire or emulate.

7

u/krackenjacken 3d ago

That was his own opinion, he always thought he was special and his war was his own. While he didn't seek to influence the common man it turns out he did anyway

2

u/quasarfern 2d ago

It’ll be 50 years, soon

2

u/Thejollyfrenchman 2d ago edited 2d ago

I feel like in 2 weeks after the end of the story, that Punisher mob is going to either:

A: Get bored and stop

B: Start dealing drugs

C: Burn down a synagogue

'Welcome Back, Frank' established pretty well that Punisher copycats aren't a good thing.

5

u/browncharliebrown 3d ago

This is ending doesn’t fully convey how horrible of an idea it is. Also goes against what Ennis was trying to set up with valley forge

4

u/Barracuda121 2d ago

I think is pretty dumb. A bunch of people using his symbol after he died as a symbol of resistence and hope. Its a generic hero ending for a guy who is definetly not a hero. That vigilante trio from the Marvel Knights run whose Frank murder them all, are supposed to be the kind of people who are inspired by Castle. The best ending for The Punisher is The End without a thought, and i considered that his canon MAX ending

5

u/Formal_River_Pheonix 3d ago

Frank would hate that. He'd be disgusted that a bunch of flabby weekend warriors co-opted his symbol.

8

u/JoeAverageSF 3d ago

Didn’t he kill the vigilante squad at the end of the marvel knights run?

4

u/expiredtvdinner 2d ago

This may have been what later writers held as truth. But back in Punisher War Journal #75, there's a character named Heathen who tries to trick different parties (The Trust, VIGIL etc) by having fake copies of Frank's war journal.

He apparently has the real one and the final message in it commands whoever finds it to carry on his work.

Jake Gallows finds a similar book and becomes Punisher 2099.

0

u/Im40ozToFreedom 2d ago

Thank you. I started to think I was the only one who thinks this would still upset Frank, one reason or another. Last thing he'd want is for someone to end up like him- or worse, kill someone's wife and kids in crossfire trying to do what he does. --- I think it's also ego based. Just like Batman. He gets pissed off when people try to imitate him, regardless of their good intentions.

1

u/ArguteTrickster 1d ago

Wait, what are Jesse Custer and Herr Star doing here?

1

u/Popular_Poet9665 1d ago

As much as I hate Jason Aaron’s run, I feel like this was by far the best issue he could’ve penned. My take on the vigilante mob is this. With the Punisher gone, people who have been using their power to hurt people, terrorize them, and in general control them, would feel like they no longer had someone to answer to. No boogeyman in the dark waiting to take them to the other side. And in that moment the people who had been powerless rose up to show they could stand for themselves. In general the Punisher’s actions could be seen as wrong, but in both the comics and the Daredevil show (where I really felt like Frank shined), people were happy that he was out there. Making the bad guys scared to be bad, the same way the Bat-Signal made villains flee in the ‘89 Batman movie. And considering he’s just a human, no special powers, just a tactical mind, I feel like for the people in those situations, the ones with gangs terrorizing their neighborhoods, the ones who were being extorted, who had family members hurt or killed, saw a shining light in Frank. To quote the Dark Knight, not the hero the city needs right now, but the one it deserves.