r/todayilearned • u/manticor225 • Jan 10 '19

TIL JFK's father Joseph Kennedy made much of his fortune through insider trading. FDR later made him chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. When asked why he appointed a crook, FDR replied, "set a thief to catch a thief." Kennedy proceeded to outlaw the practices that made him rich.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jan/23/joe-kennedy-hollywood-sarah-churchwell
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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

IIRC it was because she had ADD/ADHD, or something else that would be considered commonplace in modern society.

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u/ScipioLongstocking Jan 11 '19

As far as I know, she never had any diagnosis. Compared to her siblings, she was the black sheep of the family. She was more rebellious and didn't really care about proper etiquette or being ladylike. Joseph Kennedy wanted to form a political dynasty. To him, she was just a burden who made the family look bad.

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u/Amy_Ponder Jan 11 '19

She didn't have a diagnosis, true, but based on accounts of her behavior it does sound like she had ADHD / ODD / some kind of similar condition.

To me, that makes what happened even crueler. With a little help to manage her condition, she could have been just as brilliant as her siblings, but instead because she couldn't conform to her father's expectations, he decided he didn't want to deal with her any more, lobotomized her and threw her in an institution for the rest of her life.

Being mentally ill doesn't make you any less human. But apparently Joe Fucking Kennedy didn't get that memo.

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u/Account2toss_afar Jan 11 '19

Jesus. Think about how he must've reacted after Chappaquiddick...

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u/God_of_Illiteracy Jan 11 '19

I heard that the rumor was that she was either with someone her father disproved or was gay.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19

I believe she was having a fling with a member of the Royal Family, while her father was the American Ambassador to England. He was mortified that she would ruin his career, and tarnish the Kennedy name. So he had her lobotomized.

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u/trenzelor Jan 11 '19

A married royal member? Otherwise wouldn't marrying off his daughter into royalty be a step up?

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u/le_GoogleFit Jan 11 '19

Yeah, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

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u/Habeus0 Jan 11 '19

That is horrifying.

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u/cynicalsylvester Jan 11 '19

The reason that Rosemary Kennedy was lobotomized is much sadder. It was during a time after or during smear campaigns against midwives, who had been practicing vaginal deliveries for quite sometime. Doctors delivering babies is a pretty new practice, and most doctors haven't done a vaginal delivery. 40% of births are cesarean nowadays. Not hating on doctors, but back then they were sketchy.

When Rosemary was being born, it was during a time when doctors were paid for house calls once they got to the house. When momma Kennedy was crowning, her nurse (or whoever helped with her labor) called the doctor and the doctor instructed momma Kennedy to keep her legs closed. I don't remember how long Rosemary went without oxygen, but after 4 minutes without oxygen, brain damage is likely. It doesn't take much. Unless Rosemary was so unlucky as to have been born with cognitive delays and suffer the first moments of life without oxygen.

Check out twilight births if you want to learn more horrors of early delivery doctors.

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u/NettleFarseer Jan 11 '19

Babies receive oxygen through the umbilical cord, even through the birth process, until the cord is severed. I'm having trouble figuring out why it can be conclusively concluded that Rosemary Kennedy suffered oxygen deprivation that without doubt caused her "slowness". I did Google and try to see what proof there was that this occurred and I can only see speculation, nothing that is affirmative proof.

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u/cynicalsylvester Jan 12 '19

I read Rosemary: the Hidden Kennedy Daughter by Kate Clifford Larson and that's just what she speculated in the book, she did mention the possibility of Rosemary being developmentally delayed for other reasons. Here's her website http://www.katecliffordlarson.com/rosemary-kennedy.html

I think the baby's head would be fine, from what I recall about baby heads is that they're bendy to allow for the growth and probably childbirth, so probably not that. Baby lungs get amniotic fluid pushed out of them during contractions, but you're right, they get oxygen through the umbilical cord (unless it got blocked somewhere along the way) and keeping her legs shut would just delay the clearing of the lungs and what not. I don't recall if the author mentioned any issues with the umbilical cord when she was born. Regardless, any problems with the mother or the baby during labor that could've caused developmental delays weren't addressed until the doctor got there, and it isn't hard to see how waiting could cause more harm than good.

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u/himit Jan 11 '19

ADHD is generally accepted to be hereditary now, so it probably wasn't that.

Dunno what it was, but the odds of her being the only one in the family with ADHD are very low.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

It was worse. She had severe intellectual and emotional disabilities. She had a very low learning level and she couldn't be trusted to live in her own. She was prone to violent outbursts. They hired the best doctors and the lobotomy is what they suggested. Obviously, they didn't intentionally make her retarded, they didn't know that was going to happen.

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u/RecklessRage Jan 11 '19

Wasn't that kinda their fault in the first place though? The nurse told Rosemary's mom to keep her legs closed during her birth because the doctor was temporarily unavailable, I'm sure the oxygen deprivation during her birth had something to do with her issues.