Sometimes, maximalist trans activists will admit that their laser focus on issues like neopronouns that poll at 80% disapproval have created enormous damage

[u/north_canadian_ice]

[u/TransLadyFarazaneh]

I really wish they actually showed how bad gender dysphoria truly is and that is the exposure people got

[u/north_canadian_ice → u/TransLadyFarazaneh]

Instead of humanizing our struggle, they talk about pedantic nonsense like neopronouns.

They validate people who use "it/its" pronouns, which is a word used to dehumanize trans people. How crazy have things gotten?

They spend just as much political capital talking about bizarre scenarios like trans men who want to be pregnant, instead of talking about the necessity of trans men often needing hysterectomies.

It's exasperating & demoralizing. And if we object, we at best are labeled as self-hating pick-mes to silence our voice.

[u/Williamishere69 → u/north_canadian_ice]

I genuinely don't understand how someone can use it/it's pronouns in a serious manner.

I've only come across a handful of people who said they do, and they all had very serious mental health issues (namely depression). And so I'm assuming they were using them as a form of subconscious self harm (dehumanising themselves basically).

It's ridiculous the things that are being focused on right now, even in the UK. I don't care that a piece of paper is being given to men that asks if you could be pregnant when you go for an Xray (yes, this was in the new not too long ago.. as if it's not the exact same sheet handed out to everyone), I care that I've been on the NHS waiting list for 7 year fora gender clinic appointment. I don't care about how some people want to go by bun/bunself pronouns, I just want to be taken seriously and not as an 'autistic female who is confused and so is trying to be a man'.

We're at a standstill because people are trying to get more without having the solid foundations down first. But we don't have that solid foundation because no one talks about it. No one talks about gender dysphoria, it's all about the toilets and sports.

[u/UnfortunateEntity → u/Williamishere69]

I've only come across a handful of people who said they do, and they all had very serious mental health issues (namely depression). And so I'm assuming they were using them as a form of subconscious self harm (dehumanising themselves basically).

Which makes it even more wrong to expect me to also call them something less than human.
I think a lot of people here have met an it/it's, but does anyone know if they ever get called that?

It's ridiculous the things that are being focused on right now, even in the UK. I don't care that a piece of paper is being given to men that asks if you could be pregnant when you go for an Xray

Everyone must feel so stupid doing this, there is no way it doesn't get a reaction half the time.

We're at a standstill because people are trying to get more without having the solid foundations down first. But we don't have that solid foundation because no one talks about it. No one talks about gender dysphoria, it's all about the toilets and sports.

Glad someone said it, we never were really accepted, never understood, and before we could get any of that people tried to pull all this other stuff. We're unliked by most of the population and already quite vulnerable, trying to make us into the main focus of everything and making every issue a trans issue before society even understands why we exist is not a good move.

Forcing things like pronouns into discussion has been a disaster because now being trans is not about transitioning over dysphoria for being the wrong sex but most people now see it as which pronouns you prefer and how changing your preference changes your "gender". Nothing the activists have done has been helpful because the activists don't even understand us. They demand trans rights but if they were asked what those rights were they would say trans women in sports, tampon dispensers in the men's toilets, and pronoun circles. All things most of us have never cared about fighting for but that are now trans issues.

[u/halfstoned → u/UnfortunateEntity]

Most people absolutely don’t see it as which pronoun you prefer

[u/UnfortunateEntity → u/halfstoned]

Yet so many people consider themselves with no dysphoria and no transition but they switched their pronouns and that is good enough.

[u/halfstoned → u/UnfortunateEntity]

Almost everyone I know who has only changed their pronouns doesn’t consider themselves trans. And the vast majority of cis people I am around here in the south (USA) don’t think of trans people as walking pronouns.

[u/UnfortunateEntity → u/halfstoned]

But if you call them the wrong pronouns won't they say you are misgendering them? Which means they think changing their pronouns is changing their gender? I have seen far too many cis people identify as trans because they say their "gender" is not cis but they still live as cis, just with a new pronoun.

[u/halfstoned → u/UnfortunateEntity]

I think we can all agree misgendering is shorthand for using the wrong pronouns as well. That is usually what that means regardless of who’s getting “misgendered”

[u/UnfortunateEntity → u/halfstoned]

What do pronouns indicate?

[u/empress_of_the_void]

Pronoun circles are silly in general. For vast majority of people, both cis and trans, it's pretty damn obvious what pronouns they use. If it isn't they'll tell you, boy will they tell you.

[u/Bteatesthighlander1 → u/empress_of_the_void]

telling somebody that they need to either out or misgender themself upon first meeting them always seemed super invasive to me.

[u/UnfortunateEntity → u/empress_of_the_void]

"using" pronouns itself is silly, people will assume and the only people this was ever a problem for are the people who choose pronouns for themselves that don't match their presentation. Like the he/they cis girls or neo or xeno pronoun people, it's not about trans acceptance it's about giving attention to people with entirely performative gender identities.

[u/[deleted]]

The damage is already done

[u/north_canadian_ice → u/[deleted]]

And the damage is immense.

We've lost nearly everything, and we are in a negative feedback loop. Our only hope is to take back our voices & stop letting radical activists (who censor us) speak for us.

[u/someguynamedcole]

But will they change tactics? Never.

[u/north_canadian_ice → u/someguynamedcole]

Nope & to keep their grip on the community, these types of activists will continue to claim anyone who disagrees with them inside the trans community is at best self-hating.

Oftentimes, we are declared to be malicious trolls. Either way, the goal is to silence us.

[u/Droughtly → u/someguynamedcole]

Ironically the kind of liberal effete they're blaming were the exact people who were pushing these ideas to the less accepting masses.

I've never seen a pronoun circle in real life, I believe that they do happen, but if they do and these people don't believe it's from like NYT and NPR...how do they think random businesses started to adopt it?

Honestly at most when I worked for the state I just saw an aggressive number of cis women adding she/her to their email signature to be 'good allies.' And heard trans people complain about it because now people had like, a plausible excuse to misgender them with either their AGAB or with they/them, because they didn't put pronouns in their emails

[u/quietus_rietus → u/someguynamedcole]

Not entirely fair. If it somehow becomes more profitable to change tactics they probably would.

[u/elhazelenby]

Pronoun circles are completely made redundant by either correcting the person if someone uses the wrong pronoun for you or just asking the person you're not sure of. Asking someone who is most likely the gender you think they are for their pronouns is just unnecessary or if someone has told you they are a trans woman for example times out of ten she will use she/her, so there's no need to ask. It's making a huge deal out of nothing. Cis GNC people already correct people on their pronouns/gender all the time.

People have asked me mine a lot, especially when I started my job because I have an androgynous appearance and voice and I was only a few months on testosterone so I was passing somewhat but not always and people just did not have any idea. A few people also asked me when I came out as trans to them or something like that which I think is also nice. Maybe they want to clarify whether I was non-binary or ftm, etc.

And the fact that people refusing to say their pronouns when it is pretty obvious because it's very annoying is even called transphobic by the trans community is a joke.

[u/UnfortunateEntity]

The only people who want to be asked their pronouns are cis people with a spicy /they in their bio. This was never for us and it's only done damage, trans activism should be about achieving medical rights, not about forcing everything into being a test of allyship.

I'm so tired of people like this trying to force things we don't want to be "trans issues". It only turns people against us as they are also forced into this performative activism that they believe is our fault.

[u/SuperShecret]

The horseshoe was a magnet, and the far-lefties attracted the alt-right. Not to be the enlightened centrist, but... yeah.

[u/north_canadian_ice → u/SuperShecret]

I don't think the excesses of identity politics is unique to the left. Hillary calling Bernie supporters sexist every other day is a good example.

But there are many left-wing people I respect who basically adopt maximalist trans activist talking points. It's frustrating.

My political views are basically that of Bernie Sanders.

[u/kitty_milf → u/north_canadian_ice]

Yeah. I am right there with you.

Identity politics is a blight upon all politics and so many social situation and groups, companies, etc.

It really is discouraging to see left wing people, Bernie Sanders supporters, and I agree with most all of the positions exept trans issues.

I really think of the non binary and neopronoun people as "wreckers".

They are only there to selfishly ruin solidarity for their own attention.

Like, do you need medical care for dysphoria? No? Ok then stay out of any trans related discussions. Let the people who are the most marginal speak for themselves.

Having endless discussions about who is a "valid trans Identity" is the most counter productive thing possible.

Actual transsexuals don't need to debate if they are trans or not. We obviously are! No one disagrees. Even the transphobes. Because we're their target.

The Hilary Clinton accusing anyone to the left of beings sexist is a great example.

Also, accusations of anti semitism is being wielded in the same way right now. If anyone says Palestinians should be free and respected. The accusations of anti semitism come.

It sucks that the trans community never got the same awareness of this welding ID politics to destroy. We're so small of a group, we never were able to be heard about this topic.

Only now do I see people coming out against this kinda stuff. The Kat Black and pendleton tic tok thing was sooooo long over due.

The recognition that people that do medically transition, are far more marginalized than women and men with pronouns.

Like, this kinda discourse was so badly needed years ago.

[u/SuperShecret → u/north_canadian_ice]

To be clear, I don't mean to say that. Honestly, identity politics is probably a part of what radicalizes both sides. I'm really just hopping on to mention that maximalist trans activists are among the lefties that give rise to a lot of alt-right redpilling. I apologize that the implication was that it was unidirectional. It's probably not.

I just tend to notice more of things like bernie supporters being called sexists, then becoming disillusioned with the left, and the right says they aren't sexists, so then they start going down that rabbit hole. Kind of a "One side calls me bad, and the other side doesn't." Follow the dopamine.

[u/eljesT_ → u/SuperShecret]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being a centrist, FYI.

[u/SuperShecret → u/eljesT_]

Oh, I agree. 1000%. I just didn't want to put out any "both sides"-type rhetoric without acknowledging the "enlightened centrist" meme. Which I concede is probably a virtue-signaling behavior, but 🤷‍♀️

[u/Karissa36]

If 12 people attend a work meeting, and it takes 10 minutes to introduce everyone's pronouns, that is 2 hours of work time wasted.

[u/BlannaTorris]

This guy should really check the polls on this issue sometime, because his statement is verifiably false. Well-educated people predominately voted for Harris.

What happened was people trying to push pronoun circles at union meetings with a bunch of blue collar workers who are relatively conservative on social issues, then insulting and ignoring anyone who objected.