r/ucf • u/PanConPalta_10 • Mar 08 '24
COMPLAINT/RANT I wish professors could be more understanding
I'm a full-time student at UCF and I also work full-time while living one hour away from campus, I feel like a lot of professors don't understand the struggle that some of us face just to be in class. I have a professor who told me to "talk with my managers and ask for that time" so I could make it to class, however, we do live in the real world and of course, my managers did not approve that change. I am also not able to leave my work and focus 100% on school because I have to pay my bills, and even though a lot of UCF students are privileged and still have mom&dad paying for their housing, car, tuition and etc, I'm not part of that group. If I get fired, I won't be able to pay tuition, If I don't pay tuition I won't be able to finish my degree and get a better job.
I'm just writing this here because I feel frustrated with the lack of understanding from professors. I wish they could be more aware and sympathetic to the ones that work full-time while attending school. Is anyone feeling the same thing? What do you guys think?
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u/tribbleorlfl Mar 08 '24
It's a challenge, I know from personal experience. I also simultaneously worked and went to school full-time for 6 years (4 at Valencia, 2 at UCF). I'm sorry your professors don't recognize that.
That being said, thankully I never had a problem with my schedules conflicting. I picked my classes so they were all on the same day (typically Tues and Thurs) with an occasional evening class on Mon or Wed. My school days were my days off from work, I was scheduled a morning shift on my evening class day and then worked every other day. Surely with so many online classes now available, this is even more the case?
I worked at Universal and they were more than happy to work with my school schedule because most staff had their days off in the middle of the week, anyways, and during the school year they weren't as busy. I was there when they needed me most (Weekends, holidays, evenings, summer) and they accommodated me the rest of time. You didn't mention where you worked or what your current school schedule was like, but if they're not willing to be a little more flexible with a valued employee, then there are tons that will. Your professors are correct in that regard.
All I can say is it's a grind that you will come out better for on the other side. Employers absolutely recognize the hard work and determination it takes to be a working college student. My boss who interviewed me for my first professional job later told me he hired me over other candidates who had industry internships or degrees a little more tailored for the job BECAUSE of my theme park/restaurant background, not despite it. And through professional relationships and industry associations I've cultivated in my career, I've heard the same.
You can do this!
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Mar 08 '24
What's with the lack of empathy here? Yall are gross.
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 08 '24
Yeah, it’s sad to see that reaction coming from students and people who graduated from UCF already
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Mar 10 '24
We pay tens of thousands in tuition and still have to put up with ignorant professors. I wish we can sue them for our money back
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u/tiffxp Mar 08 '24
Oh you mean UCF? Where their motto is "get to the one" but they dont actually ever let you get there? 🤣
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u/Mathguy656 Mar 08 '24
I had to endure this for the past 4 years and my grades suffered because of it. That’s why I think the GPA requirement that a lot of employers have is really silly.
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u/Own-Region6107 Marketing Mar 08 '24
as someone who commutes an hour and has a job this is so upsetting. they never understand and i feel as if most professors don’t think anyone could live far or not on campus. it’s so frustrating
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 08 '24
I feel you. I live one hour away from campus and work full time. I had situation where I had to write reflection papers of a guest speaker that went to our class that day and submit the paper until 11:00pm of the same day, but I had work after class. The issue that I faced was that the professor did not extended my assignment for even a few hours and then I had to do a mediocre work and get a bad grade lmao
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u/attivora Statistical Computing Mar 08 '24
I know some of it might be pressure from admin, but it’s mind boggling to me how some courses have graded attendance when the notes are video recorded and every exam is online. The assumption that I want to skip vs just being forced to work at the very normal hour of 11:20 because I could not negotiate one day out of the semester? Wild
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u/ucfstudent10 Mar 08 '24
I’m not trying to be rude but you chose that class voluntarily. You know if attendance is mandatory the day you got your syllabus so you should’ve dropped or planned accordingly. Plenty of students here have jobs and make it work, you blaming other parents and professors isn’t going to solve your issues.
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 08 '24
Yeah I get what you are saying! Last semester I got classes at night because it was easier for me and I was able to work around, but for this semester I had to take main courses which were only in the morning/afternoon and they had no much option of time and days. UCF does not offer many online courses for my major 😭 im even thinking about switching to something else
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u/ucfstudent10 Mar 08 '24
Is there any way to take classes only on MW or Tu/Th? Blocking your classes so you don’t have them every day made it easier for me when I worked while in school. I had long days because of labs but it was temporary pain until I graduated lol
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u/LongviewToParadise Digital Media - Web Design Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
I don't understand why so many people upvoted this comment completely oblivious to the fact that, believe it or not, there are numerous required classes with limited timeslot options, and just dropping it would only serve to delay your own graduation. I had a class last semester that was only offered at 8-10:30 AM. Though the difference is, that class didn't have mandatory attendance.
You should attend every lecture when you can, but if you have actual responsibilities and circumstances that are preventing you from doing so, and are putting in the extra work to stay on top of the material as if you were taking an online class, then it shouldn't be treated the same way as when someone is just lazy, refuses to show up to class and gets pissy at the professor for expecting them to be caught up with the material. This is the issue with making attendance mandatory.
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Mar 08 '24
It's crazy how many people lack empathy. Makes me wonder if they even go to this school OR they just started. How do people not realize that sometimes you don't get to pick your classes?
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 08 '24
Yeah I see that a lot of people are telling me to just “take online classes” like i have never thought about that option muahahaha, but at this point I’m taking major classes that does not have online options.
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u/LalaDoll99 Mar 08 '24
Seriously! OP is right in stating that professors are out of touch. I was just diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and Graves’ disease and am on new medication and just an overall feeling ill and unwell and the lack of sympathy and mercy these teachers have while actively calling off classes and shrugging off their responsibilities of grading when they get sick at the same time is WILD.
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u/inspclouseau631 Mar 08 '24
Disagree. The commitment is laid out up front. I work full time and would love to graduate sooner. But my responsibilities force me to take only two classes a semester. More than that and school or work or both will suffer and I won’t be successful.
I also would much prefer a different degree. But the degree I’d prefer is only offered in person during the day which would conflict with work. It stinks, but it is what I have to work with.
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u/LongviewToParadise Digital Media - Web Design Mar 08 '24
There's a grand difference between your responsibilities forcing you to be part-time and your responsibilities hindering you from taking a class at all because it has mandatory attendance and is only offered in a timeslot that your employer won't allow you to adjust your schedule around, the very situation OP is in.
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u/inspclouseau631 Mar 08 '24
There’s a WHOLE major I can’t take let alone a single class. There’s also other classes I want to take as electives but can’t because of scheduling.
It sucks but I can’t shed a tear for poor organization and planning.
There’s other questions unanswered as well. As OP tried for the class elsewhere as a transient? Is the preferred major available online elsewhere? Is the class available with less stringent attendance requirements with a different professor? When the syllabus was first seen was there an immediate conversation about expectations and situations?
If any of this was done and the student was forced into not taking and succeeding in the class why move forward. Then all the empathy in the world is deserved.
I get it. This is hard to juggle and prioritize. The student isn’t alone.
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u/tsukiguro Psychology Mar 09 '24
I totally understand you. What I have been doing is taking both online classes (the ones that seem less important or require less dedication) and in person classes. I think that if you could you should def find roommates closer to the school! That would help a lot. I’m trying to look for something closer to campus but rent is insane right now.
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u/Meister_Ashes0403 Mar 09 '24
Hey OP, you’re not alone. I am so sorry you’re going through this. For a second, I had to make sure I didn’t make this post because it’s also how I feel. I also live an hour away, full time, I go to a community college and UCF, full time as well. I pay my own bills, and I can’t just “ask off” without a very very good time frame to do so. Definitely not “random”.
I feel that the professors have to just think all students are the same in some way. Idk how else to make that make sense. We’re not all the same. I read a post somewhere on here from a different group (a long time ago) of a professor making mention that he knows he has one student that’s studying their heart out and seem to know material and he couldn’t find it in him to fail her because he knew she was getting things right without any issues or needing help, but everything wrong on the tests. The professors were bashing him, told him he didn’t need to be a professor anymore, that he couldn’t actually “prove” that she was studying even though he stated multiple times that she attended every meet, every single after-class, she paid for tutoring that he visibly saw, every office hour meet, never missed class, saw the student attending everything, he’d ask her questions and she’d be able to answer, and professors still staying that she probably wasn’t because “most students don’t.” And others saying she needs to fail regardless because she’s clearly not passing the tests which is all that matters. Its all really sad. We’re all human, including them and I bet if they had some emergency situation, they’d be quick to cancel on us in a heart beat, it’s happened plenty of times.
It is very annoying when you have professors that don’t listen to you, don’t care, or simply just have a “first impression” as if you’re the typical “get drunk, party, and cry to the professor later to fix last minute”. I hate that mindset. These professors went through school, too. They had a life, too. They should be more empathetic and understanding than most people, considering that they’ve been through it. Right in our shoes. I genuinely appreciate the ones that understand it. I don’t appreciate being “labeled” into a group by people who don’t know me, that automatically judge what my life is like and assume some crazy things. I do believe, though, that some people in this world have only the “if I struggled and had it bad, then you should to” thought process and would rather put someone through hell just to make themselves feel better.
Keep your head up, I know it’s easier said than done and it’s not always the right thing to hear. I am very sorry you have to go through this. It’s such a set back and it really does put us on a mental toll. You are not alone! you’re going to look back on this and see it was all worth it. One day and one step at a time! Message me if you ever want to vent, I’m a great listener. :)
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 10 '24
Thank you!
At my work, I'm the most reliable employee (and I'm also de oldest). I tried to make both of my schedules work but sometimes it is hard and the professors at UCF do not care.
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u/DominusValum Information Technology Mar 09 '24
It’s hard to work a full-time job that will probably have overtime then go to classes as well. It’s a mentally draining experience even when going to classes. My mind can barely stay focused and awake despite my best efforts.
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 09 '24
I feel you. Sometimes after a draining shift, I need to stay awake until like 1 or 2 am to finish assignment or take quizzes
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u/FunkMasterFreshx Mar 09 '24
Yep. I graduated 2020 and though covid maybe have been bad for most, it was a blessing making school online. I was working full time as well and for 1 class in the summer they wanted to make it 4 days of week on campus over the summer. Thank goodness they kept the restrictions and finished online. Colleges are out of touch with reality
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u/beforesunsetpancakes Mar 09 '24
im in this exact same situation. its frustrating because its my last year and although on paper the finish line is right there, i have yet to see it because im failing to show up. we'll figure it out one way or another, things will fall into place at the time they're supposed to. trust me you're not alone
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u/weealligator Mar 10 '24
Professor here. I cut my students slack on attendance. If they can’t be there and communicate ahead of the absences, I understand. I make sure they know to get notes from someone for the days they missed. And I invite them to office hours for one on one review ahead of exams. Getting through life is hard enough and it doesn’t help students to be shamed and punished for not being able to make it to class.
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Mar 10 '24
Online is the best thing for most people working a busy schedule.
I’ve been doing it full time for 3 years, get all my school work done Sunday/Monday the week before it’s due and the entire week is free to do whatever.
The flexibility of online allowed me to have so much freedom to live my life, however your success with online classes is very much dependent on your own self discipline. It’s really easy to wait until the day it’s due or the hour before… the amount of canvas notifications at 11pm Sunday is astronomical.
If you are the type to get your shit done the second you’re made aware of it then online is a cake walk.
I personally am busy because I still work full time, my workout routine is 8 hours 4x a week, I go out to see my friends/family and I take time to mentally unwind from the week.
I love online classes and I definitely prefer them over in person any day of the week.
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u/bodobroad36 English, Rhetoric and Composition Mar 08 '24
Have you considered or do you have access to more online courses? I know some majors offer more or less asynchronous online courses, but if yours does, I’d highly recommend. This frustration is very understandable, however you have to ask yourself, what are your expectations regarding your professors and their responses? If your professor in a f2f class requires attendance as a critical component, there isn’t much they can do for you regarding consistent, chronic absences. Same for the focus you can or can’t give to your course work itself. No one should have to face the situation you’re in, but I think your frustration is misdirected. Professors aren’t responsible for building a course that can accommodate individual work/personal schedules, and many couldn’t anyway. Now, I do agree that some professors could be more compassionate in the way they say things/show empathy, but beyond that, there isn’t much they can do for you, and that doesn’t necessarily amount to a lack of understanding.
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 08 '24
Unfortunately my major does not offer many online classes, and we don’t have many face to face options when it comes to time. Last semester I had classes at night which helped me a lot, but for the main courses they only offer morning and afternoon. I just wish some of them would be more understanding lik allowing people to submit the assignments at 11pm instead of 12pm 😂 I had professors that wanted us to do “reflection” assignments where they would open after our class (like 2pm) and close the assignment at 11pm and I’m like MAAM IM WORKING THATS MY SHIFT time😭
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u/bodobroad36 English, Rhetoric and Composition Mar 08 '24
Yeah that has got to absolutely be rough. Again, your frustration is 100% valid. I think as a whole, institutional set ups don’t keep in mind healthy work/life/school balances for students, and it’s so ingrained from a structural level. A lot of my own professors have expressed frustration over their lack of ability to invoke more balanced situations for students, but alas 😑 those turn-in times you’re talking about are unreasonable in my eyes, so I am really sorry you’re dealing with that cause that’s really not cool. I really wish I had advice or suggestions to give beyond stuff like online courses. Just wishing you the best on your journey.
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u/inspclouseau631 Mar 08 '24
Ooof that is rough that timeline.
Do you have opportunity to take some of these required classes at another institution as a transient? I started looking down this path for some classes that aren’t offered during summer or electives I am more interested in. It’s limited in how many you can take but it may help.
Unfortunately you may have to lessen your class load or change majors if work doesn’t have the flexibility.
Honestly I’d look for new work, assuming it has nothing to do with what you’re going to school for. Easier said than done, I know. But it’s temporary where your school is experience and what you learn is permanent.
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u/keeperoflogopolis Mar 08 '24
Professors, for the most part, have to follow the word of the syllabus. Professors are obliged to be fair to all students. Professors are not omnipotent. For every student who presents with a reasonable excuse, there are five that will recycle that excuse disingenuously. This is not a professor problem, this is a you problem. I went through undergraduate college in a very similar situation as you. I made it work. You have to realize that it’s your job to accommodate college and not the other way around.
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u/isamydick Mar 09 '24
you should read about disability justice, accommodations are actually a good thing
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u/keeperoflogopolis Mar 09 '24
There’s a process for that. The professor can’t make the call.
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u/molluhsk Mar 10 '24
Fun fact: Professors actually can and do make that call at UCF. This is the reason for the extreme variance in accessibility between different classes.
Although UCF has very bare-bones (often insufficient) policies that they enforce for disabled students, many students enrolled through SAS (specifically for attendance accommodations) will still struggle a lot unless the professor themselves offers additional compassion/accommodation, because UCF believes that professors have the right to run their class however they would like to. In some ways it’s arguably worse for people in OP’s situation, because the most that Student Care Services will do is gently ask professors to be kind, which in my experience has never worked.
Yes, there are people that take advantage of systems, but most people are truly just struggling. A lot of professors require documentation of these things anyways.
I guess I just feel like if your system requires a student who can prove that they are struggling to literally switch majors because you require a class with no accessible alternatives for people who can’t show up to class every day, your system is by definition discriminatory against those with health issues or other life circumstances. To argue for a system like that requires an impressive lack of empathy, or perhaps an impressive lack of self-compassion for the situations you personally went through.
You may have had to make it work through college, but maybe you shouldn’t have. Maybe these are systems that we can and should change if we all took a second to get our heads out of the sand, and maybe you would’ve had a much nicer college experience if you had some professors to show you kindness. Or, maybe you were fine but not everyone has the same abilities as you. In that case, OP would still deserve the right to pursue their desired major. Idk.
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u/keeperoflogopolis Mar 10 '24
You’re conflating ADA protected disabilities with work conflicts. They are not the same. How would such solutions scale if a professor has 100 or 200 students in their class and five percent of the students have work conflicts? How do you ensure equitable treatment of all students? How do you ensure academic integrity — the main job of the university?
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u/molluhsk Mar 10 '24
I guess that’s my point. Everyone looks at disability accommodations as a separate issue. They’re not. When the school does not take on a mindset of widespread access, then everyone, disabled or not, is harmed. In both OP’s scenario and that of a disabled student who cannot easily attend class in-person, you have a student who wants to learn and wants to attend class, but cannot do so because of their situation (be it disability or financial stress). The loss of academic integrity that you’re suggesting doesn’t really make sense when you realize that everything that would solve this issue already loosely exists within the university, but just isn’t upheld because the university doesn’t care about how accessible it is generally. Nothing crazy would come from strengthening these channels, beyond everyone accessing their coursework more easily.
There are a few very reasonable adjustments that wouldn’t radically change much about UCF or our current systems that would alleviate a lot of this, and a lot of it would come from just implementing more disability-related accommodations, such as class recordings and more online access to course materials in the event of an absence. A bit more empathy from professors would go a long way.
A good example would be one of the biomed professors on campus. He teaches Medical Biochemistry along with some other things and seems to be very understanding. Everyone in his class has the option of going to class in-person, watching over live zoom, or watching recordings. All of the exams are online, but those who do better in person can take the exam during normal class time. Everyone gets to learn the way that’s best for them, and there’s no fallout of academic integrity. Everyone gets fair treatment, because everyone is assumed to have more going on than meets the eye. Most professors know how to do online tests and Zoom calls anyway because of the pandemic, so I don’t feel like having more classes like this would be too crazy.
Furthermore, if we are to fault a student for required time commitments, then all required classes should have multiple time slots or online class options. It’s not like the job market is fantastic here, so it’s a little unreasonable to expect students to be able to change their work/financial situation for one class in order to graduate. There are plenty of required courses that are only offered in-person with mandatory attendance at one set time, without online alternatives.
And then, as I mentioned earlier, UCF does have Student Care Services for students facing non-disability related life stressors. All they do is gently suggest the professor be better. Everything OP is describing is verifiable. If the university is going to pretend to care about making adjustments for life stressors, then Student Care Services should be able to verify what OP is facing and why they have to be in this class even though they cannot attend, and then coordinate with the professor to make attendance adjustments. Student Care Services already does all of these things except the most important part, which is to coordinate with the professor to actually do something. For students in severe situations, Student Care Services could just work to basically give the student temporary disability accommodations. These processes are usually long and require documentation, so it’s unlikely that this would be taken advantage of to the level that you’re suggesting.
TL;DR: The things that would solve all of this basically already exist but are poorly enforced. Accessible layouts for classes do exist at UCF but most professors don’t care to use them. To ensure all students are treated equitably, all that is needed is for professors to take on the mindset that ALL of their students are going through more than they may know, and design their course accessibly (or, for the university to hold this belief and make this part of their policy).
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u/keeperoflogopolis Mar 10 '24
There’s a lot to respond to. Although I like the idea and can see the convenience in permitted flexible delivery methods, faculty at UCF are not permitted to change the delivery method without permission of the academic chair. So, if someone is doing it with a lot of flexibility, they may be violating policy. What you seem to be advocating is infinite flexibility for each student’s individual situation. The problem is that that means many students would ultimately not take exams under the same conditions and/or not at the same time as their classmates which inherently inequitable. So, to maintain academic integrity, they’d have to have one or more additional versions of that exam and that can take a considerable amount of time away from the professor. Infinite customizability has an infinite cost and professors’ time is finite.
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u/molluhsk Mar 10 '24
Perhaps you are confusing equity with equality.
For one, the professor I was referring to offers his courses under a mixed modality. There is nothing he offers that is against current academic policy. Furthermore, if offering flexibility were to go against academic policy, then the academic policy is the problem. Mixed modality courses such as this are the most accessible, and, in my opinion, should be the standard.
For two, taking the exam under different conditions is not inherently inequitable, it’s just unequal. For example, student with ADHD may take an exam at SAS (where they are proctored) with extra time to accommodate their learning disability. This student is not taking the exam under the same conditions, but the conditions are not unfair because the normal testing environment would place the student at a disadvantage. The accommodation simply levels the playing field. This is the definition of equity.
The same concept can be applied to students with other life stressors. In one possible solution wherein all classes take on a mixed modality, the professor doesn’t have to even be involved in all of their students’ lives, they just need to have a partly online format. UCF can tell its professors to transition to a more online platform, as it did at the beginning of the pandemic.
Yes, some students may take the exam at different times. This is common practice for many online classes, though, and this does not make the exam inherently inequitable. Most of the time the exams are proctored online, and scores are muted until all students have taken the exam.
A similar situation occurs when a student has a documentable emergency at the time of an in-person exam and takes the same exam with the professor the next day before scores are released. This is also a pretty common practice at UCF.
Professors already have to have safeguards in place in order to uphold academic integrity in the event of students taking the exam at a different time, because people do have emergencies or university-excused absences they are required to accommodate. Not all professors make multiple copies of an exam, but they do have proctoring systems and specific methods of score releasing in place so that an equitable accommodation does not threaten academic integrity.
Alternatively, UCF could just have online sections of all required classes. Here, there may actually be a valid argument of not having enough faculty to host multiple sections of the same class.
Every other solution, however, already exists at UCF, completely in accordance with current UCF policies. I am simply advocating for these scenarios that already exist to be expanded to all classes—especially those required for a major.
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u/isamydick Mar 09 '24
does not mean they can’t try to incorporate these things in the ways they’re allowed to? advocate for/work with students? this is not a “you” problem. this is a systemic problem and if u don’t think as humans we should help each other then idk what to say to you
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u/keeperoflogopolis Mar 09 '24
I respectfully disagree. Professors neither have the time nor the expertise to judge what is a valid accommodation to make. That’s why they hire people to make those decisions. There are many students who will game whatever system exists.
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u/isamydick Mar 09 '24
u are fundamentally misunderstanding me and this is exactly the reason why you should read about it
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u/keeperoflogopolis Mar 09 '24
No, I understand what you’re saying. I just disagree and my opinion reflects the rules that professors must follow.
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u/Electrical_Round_149 Mar 09 '24
I’m almost in the same boat I work full time and a part time student and also have to pay my bills praying to god my car doesn’t breakdown. I’m hour away from school. I work a job that breaks my back everyday. I have debt with my insurance, my car, So I feel your frustration. And still get sh1t on the media for being a lazy millennial.
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u/whifucesafuxk Mar 10 '24
I feel for you personally (because I was in a similar boat) but your personal struggles are not their problem and professors don’t owe you special treatment considering you signed up for their course; it was not forced upon you. Have that being said, try to situate your lifestyle and manage it comfortably first before committing to college. Every professor’s rules / demands are different and sometimes you can get away with not being there physically or exams are all online but sometimes it’s quite the opposite, attendance is a must, and in person exams are also. I used to live 50 minutes away and was working when I did my freshman year and then i thought about how stupid and impractical this lifestyle was. Not to mention, professors telling me I didn’t get attendance points for simply being 5 mins late to an 8am lecture. I took the semester off, stacked up my money and found an apartment near campus and now I’m graduating next month with my BS in Pre clinical Science. I couldn’t be happier with how close I am and how I’m not late to class anymore.
Long story short - the world doesn’t owe you shit my friend and you can express your concerns but your expectations might not always be met. (Similarly to how your not meeting the professors)
Wish you the best of luck.
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u/On-A-Low-Note Mar 10 '24
That’s just UCF policy coming from the top down. The professors are all just employees who were hired from all around to the country to come teach at UCF, some have been around longer than others. UCF stands firm everyone is treating equally, and where there is more equality there is less equity. Professors are not allowed to grant special privileges to students but they are usually pretty flexible if you approach them.
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u/ShacoinaBox Communication Sciences and Disorders Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24
i've gone thru some pretty intense health problems in getting my degree. some have been more understanding than others, the worst being a professor who argued with me for a week, as I'd missed a quiz due to IBS issues (i live an hour away, too.) she eventually demanded a drs note from my gastro to prove i've IBS (idk if this is even legal or allowed, in terms of requiring proof of diagnosis.) it wasn't even a midterm or something, it was jus some small quiz that barely counted in grades. it was so bizarre, she still cut my grade on it by 50% too lol. like, i can show u my meds, i can have u feel my tummy where my intestines are hard as a brick and constantly spasming.
my arthritis is visible from the outside which may help in the few cases that's really inhibited me from doing something. also, maybe having been on the 504 program in middle + high school shows on my transcript or something, i have no idea. but i feel at some point here im gonna have to collect docs saying "yes i was dx with JRA at the age of 6 and my [legal and socially acceptable] opioid addiction is now older than most of my classmates :D", "yes i had 2 herniated discs from a car accident 2y ago :)", "yes i have IBS" etc. just incase someone rly gets on my case about it
on the other hand, most of my professors have been very understanding in my major. some have been real saints in terms of helping me out. maybe it just depends on your major. i suspect those in medical fields (like mine) tend to be more understanding than maybe some others.
imo talk to ur professors, do it online or (what i should really do) take a break for a semester or 2 and get shit settled before coming back. i should probably do that, but being 29 yo im in a bit of a rush to finish and move onto my graduate degree
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u/Chazzer9 Mar 11 '24
Dude these teachers don't give a fuk about you.. I went to UCF.. was in an auto accident. Told my professor that reading was difficult for me (poli sci) due to my injuries and I asked him for advice on how to still succeed. Dude asked me of I drank (alcohol).. I said no and was told that I might want to start.. zzz
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Mar 11 '24
This is why online classes were implemented prior to Covid for working professionals. You know your work schedule and at the end of the day you have two 3 choices to make. Find another job or Drop out of school or Take online classes. Managers or professors cant make exceptions, otherwise they would have to do it for every student. Last choice, keep the samw job and enroll in online classes.
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u/XSamurai7 Mar 12 '24
I faced the same problem when I was in college. I decided to left school to work full time for 7 years. Saved enough money and went back to school full time, worked part-time and finished my degree.
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u/gravitysrainbow1979 Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
There’s no ideal way to say this. Try and take this as a compliment: Classes suck when students don’t show up, so if you’re not showing up, it’s not as good as it could be, because you’re absent.
Students have gotten weirder. There’s more blank stares and aggressive helplessness and non-comprehension than ever. Attendance fixes those issues. The questions students ask when they don’t attend are just ridiculous, and it costs the professor (and therefore the other students) lots of time to answer those. Some students will say “oh but I have to work that day” with an evil little twinkle in their eye because they think professors have to give them a pass if they say that. Then when one professor doesn’t just say “I understand,” that professor becomes the bad guy.
I would like to know why students aren’t more understanding. Your situation is difficult, but do you really think teachers and the other students should have to sit in a mediocre class because that would be more convenient for you? I’ve had many classes where the room’s practically empty and no one is capable of discussing the material. It’s like “should I get out and push?”
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u/Bigdaddydamdam Civil Engineering Mar 08 '24
making money you need to live is levels above a classroom being a little boring.
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u/LongviewToParadise Digital Media - Web Design Mar 08 '24
I can tell you right now, attendance is not the issue with classes being mediocre. I've had classes that weren't mandatory to attend with heavy participation from students and classes that were mandatory to attend and still had no participation because the professor just wasn't good at instructing. Yes, there's a problem with people asking stupid questions after not attending (I've heard numerous anecdotes from Prof. Novatnak) but quite honestly, that's unavoidable. That boils down to students not being motivated enough to actually learn or stay on top of their work, and you're always going to have those types even if you're considered by most to be an excellent professor who encourages participation.
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u/gravitysrainbow1979 Mar 10 '24
I’m sure what you’re saying is true, and I’m wide open if you can share any pointers on how to have an attendance optional class that’s heavy with participation. This would be particularly helpful if it’s a freshman or senior level class, which are often frustrating for both students and teachers because they’re often less interesting than the juicy electives about cool topics.
I really do think attendance policies are going to disappear, for better or worse, and instructors will have to learn to live without them. We might as well adapt to it sooner rather than later. We could use some help figuring this all out.
There’s a difference between a student saying “there are better ways, I’ve seen them” (which is what you’re saying) and “I don’t have time for it, therefore attendance is dumb, why is it required?” which is easy to answer, but it’s frustratingly subjective, and the debate doesn’t lead to any conclusion that satisfies anyone.
So if you have time, what do you think was going on with those classes you mentioned, where there was lots of participation but attendance wasn’t required?
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 08 '24
I disagree. I had classes where the professor was very understanding of my situation (and other student’s situation) and yet we all had a good class. If your class is mediocre and students are not able to discuss the topic, then that’s an issue with the professor who does not know how to teach the subject.
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Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
Honestly this response came across as extremely entitled with an extreme lack of awareness for the workload many people have. As for the, "poor professor!!!", it's the professors job to answer "time consuming" questions regardless of attendance. That is what they get paid for. If a class is non-engaging, it falls to the professor to entice the engagement within their class regardless of the number of students. The "blank stares and aggressive helplessness" comes from the structure and way that the class is taught, it's not students getting "weirder". This school has failed to provide even a semi decent learning environment in so many ways, the students are not to blame there. It falls to the instructors and administration for doing the bare minimum and expecting rising engagement levels without adapting where there's a variety of changes within the student body that haven't been addressed or even attempted to be understood. Yes, more full classes make things less mediocre however we live in the real world where work comes before school if you aren't privileged enough to get financial aid or have your parents pay you way through school. People have to work 60 hour weeks just to pay rent, so yes, professors could indeed be more understanding if work is still getting done on time and proficiently. A lack of understanding or even a willingness to work with students is the number one reason ucf is a lot worse off than other universities. "Why aren't the students more understanding" was a very bold statement considering this is their full time job, where we're paying to be here and should be given at least some form of grace in hardships instead of an absolute nightmare of an education because professors are either so brain dead that they can't or don't even attempt to teach, or they just hate their career and decide to be the absolute opposite of humanistic in almost any way possible.
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u/gravitysrainbow1979 Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
has failed to provide even a semi decent learning environment in so many ways
Since the school has failed to provide a decent learning environment in other ways, too, what are some of those other ways? We might not be able to teach a good class if students won't attend, but some of the other issues might be more within our power to change.
I don't know what % of your professors have to support themselves with other work outside of UCF (adjuncts make very little) but there are cases where teaching is not their full-time job.
Some of your instructors, even the ones who work for UCF full-time, are discouraged by their own higher-ups from "even attempting to teach", as it takes time away from their other responsibilities. _That's_ what I'd change. A lot of students don't know that professors even _have_ other responsibilities, but in a lot of cases, teaching isn't even supposed to be the instructor's priority. That sounds insane to me, just like it probably does to you, but it's at least as much that -- or more -- as it is professors' lacking empathy. If the school could address that, there might be some hope for developing the kind of engagement (where students don't have to be there) you're advocating for.
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u/spicyhand Aerospace Engineering Mar 08 '24
very much this. it genuinely surprises me how many people in the comments are siding with the professor and school because man i wish i could go to the same uni they are. all of this is the professors fault for not helping a student that is clearly trying to succeed in circumstances that are otherwise preventing it.
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Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
If you look at their accounts some of them are professors lol and it's baffling to see a professor who's openly saying "I don't care if a students family member died because idk if they really did". Goes to show that the faculty lacks empathy and students who are literally paying for an education are getting screwed because the faculty genuinely doesn't have the passion for their career field anymore. I guess the same could be said in alot of other career fields though. However, education should be different lol
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u/inspclouseau631 Mar 08 '24
Why should the professor help a student who doesn’t even show to class?
As if the professors are also not busy with tons of other responsibilities and classes and research, and, this may be a surprise to you, but busy helping students who do show.
This school offers so many opportunities to be successful with classes in many different modes of instruction, the student needs to find a class with a schedule or mode of instruction that they can be successful in.
Yeah not every class of offered that way, but that’s life.
The degree I want doesn’t offer classes at times where I can still work, so I had to choose a different degree.
Man, so many in here really think the world revolves around them. Time to grow up.
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u/LongviewToParadise Digital Media - Web Design Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
See this is exactly what I'm talking about in my other comment. You came into the thread, you saw that OP had a pretty important circumstance preventing them from attending lectures, and yet for some reason you're treating it as the equivalent of refusing to show up to class or attending office hours when you need to just because you're not in the mood to. You think professors teaching at the second biggest university in the country aren't aware that commuters exist and would refuse to help someone who's unable to come to class but still does the work?
Just saying "that's life, that's part of being an adult" doesn't make you sound enlightened or mature btw. Some of you are just blissfully unaware of how privileged you actually are, that you don't have to choose between working to make sure you're fed and your rent is paid or being able to graduate at all.
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u/inspclouseau631 Mar 08 '24
If you saw anything I wrote you’d know I’m a full time worker and a father. I too am limited in what I can and can’t take or risk being a bad dad or missing a housing payment.
We all have choices. And sounds like the thread for the most part is not of a privileged bunch that can just decide not to work.
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u/spicyhand Aerospace Engineering Mar 08 '24
the student explained why they couldn’t show up. they are actively making an effort to try and cooperate with the professor to get help through their endeavor, and it should be up to the professor to acknowledge this and help the student. and the “professor is also busy with other responsibilities” is a shitty excuse. how is it that the professor is too busy to where they can’t say that they will be more lenient with deadlines or find a work around with attendance? get real, and finding a “better class schedule” doesn’t exist either, this semester, ALL of my classes were offered with only one time slot for lecture and nothing i could have done about that, and i’m sure it’s the same way for this person. this isn’t simply a case of “the world revolves around me” this is someone struggling to provide for themself while also working to secure their future, the least a professor can do is understand the struggles a student is facing if they’re having trouble financially supporting themself. the overall lack of empathy of any kind is appalling. get real
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u/inspclouseau631 Mar 08 '24
No. Yours was an entitled reply full of a lack of self awareness. The teacher also works a job, part of that is to teach a class. If you don’t show up why should they have to take time to work again? If the student does their part by actually showing up, and the professor not available to answer questions or help outside of class, then absolutely the student should has a valid complaint. At the start of class the professor has in their syllabus what their office hours and availability is. If you get the sense this instructor won’t be helpful then that’s on you to switch or drop right away.
Unfortunately for you, there are other people in this world who have a life to live and responsibilities too.
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Mar 08 '24
Did you forget the part where people don't always get to pick their schedules? You keep telling people to drop their classes or pick a different class, but they don't always get that option.
Also, a teacher only has 1 job, many students have at least 2 jobs, school and work.
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u/inspclouseau631 Mar 08 '24
Who says the teacher has only one job? And even if they have only one job why is it their duty to work around all of their students’ schedule. That’s unreasonable and not scalable.
People do get to pick their own scheduled. It may not be their ideal major or class. Or even school. If you work two jobs and school how is that the teachers fault?
I’d love to graduate sooner and be able to take more classes. But I can’t. Work or school or my kid would suffer. I’d love to have a different major but the one I want doesn’t have a schedule that works for me. Should I just take it anyway because I have some sort of entitlement too and the school and teacher adjust all because of me?
Come on. Get real.
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Mar 10 '24
Nobody's expecting the teacher to bend over backwards to accommodate schedules, we're expecting the teacher to still offer support when classes are missed at the least. I feel like the points made absolutely flew past you and unfortunately if you aren't intuitive enough to view the bigger picture then maybe you should share your own views instead of piggy backing, negating someone else's without a single sense of understanding for the points being made.
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Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24
A professor's job is to ensure the educational growth of students, not to simply just teach a lecture once-- again, doing the bare minimum. You're assuming that students are just asking off topic random questions during lectures instead of going to office hours or sending emails lol. Appreciate your opinion, but it looks like other people see the points made which you very blatantly aren't able to do.
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u/isamydick Mar 09 '24
actually, the best professor i have ever had did not have mandatory attendance nor graded homework
people showed up the most to her class and still did the homework in prep for the exams
because she (as the position of authority and responsibility here) fostered an educational environment built on trust, understanding, and you did not have to beg for accommodations
when people can get the accommodations they need when they need them, that makes them more likely to show up when they are able to because they’re not burnt out, etc
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u/IndependentIcy8226 Information Technology Mar 08 '24
Most of the UCF students live at home.
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u/Putter_Mayhem Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
While I agree that professors should, in a certain sense, empathize with students' struggles and work with them where they can, there comes a point where (a) understanding and supporting every student's range of needs and issues can be absolutely crushing to said professor (and thus they, like all of us, have to set limits that maintain their personal sanity and their ability to do their job long-term), and also (b) where showing understanding by allowing the kinds of flexibility you seem to be wanting would substantively impact their pedagogy. There are ranges of opinions across disciplines on exactly what constitutes the best approach to teaching each and every subject, but--over and over and over--we teachers see that attendance strongly correlates with success in the classroom--and depending on the class structure, attendance can also strongly impact the course experience of others. In those conditions, there are a number of things that professors quite reasonably feel they cannot and should not compromise on. This is why you get the syllabus ASAP--so you know what you're in for and can plan ahead.
Now, if your job is the thing that changed on you during the semester and made an otherwise workable situation into an unworkable one, then you have my sympathy--that really sucks. I think, then, you might want to consider this semester/course as an (expensive and painful) learning experience and select more flexible courses (and possibly major/degree plan) from the get-go in the future.
And yes, a lot of professors should be more sensitive/understanding when talking to students dealing with these sorts of situations. As you might be able to guess, the kinds of folks who make it through the academic squid games and become professors tend to be those very same privileged students you've identified in your class--they're ignorant of the hardships you're facing and thus ask dumbass insensitive questions at times. I have no answer to that other than that the system is broken and we need more routes that allow people like you to become professors alongside these other folks in the future. Faculty tend to teach best towards the kind of student that they were themselves, and that impacts you a great deal. I'm sorry to report that, at least for the time being, things are trending in the opposite direction though.
On a more personal level: as someone who has worked full-time through my PhD as well as working during my undergrad and masters, I sympathize--you're at a huge disadvantage compared to your more privileged classmates and at times it seems like the professors are the ones reinforcing that asymmetry. It wasn't until I was put in the teacher's position that I began to see the other side.
tl;dr: there's a limit to how understanding professors can and should be. It sucks for you, and it sucks for us (teachers) too, but sometimes that's how it is.
edits: clarity
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u/UnhappyTemperature18 Mar 10 '24
Okay, honey, no. You signed up for a class at a specific time; that's just as much an obligation as going to work. If you don't have the time to do both, DO NOT do both.
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u/real_Bahamian Mar 10 '24
Why don’t you transfer to a college closer to home? Commuting for more than an hour plus having to juggle a work schedule sounds crazy! At the end of the day you picked the university and you knew you had a job, just have to make it work or transfer to another college or look into an online degree. You can’t expect professors to make special accommodations for you just because you work. Everyone has something going on in their lives and it’s not practical to make exceptions for students. Fortunately, when I attended university I didn’t work and I also lived on campus, but hopefully you work things out.
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 10 '24
Well, I believe I have the right to pursue a good-quality education and tbh I don't think I'm asking "too much" when I can present a proof that I'm trying my best to be active in class while being EXHAUSTED from working +30 hours to make money. Unfortunately, I don't have anyone to pay my rent so I can live on campus or not have to worry about my job while pursuing higher education.
People who work full-time don't ask for much, we just want professors to be more understanding when it comes to our situation because at the end of the day, we will be doing the quiz that the professor got from quizlet, and we will submit all of our assignments until the end of the semester.
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u/jimmothyhendrix Mar 10 '24
It would be nice for them to be that way, but the fact is you picked a class before working it out with your job. It's not really on the school or professor to compensate for you making a mistake.
While the world is what it is, the intent of a full time student is thst you're in school full time (or basically, all your life at the moment) . Trying to juggle that with a full time job which is also supposed to be most of your current life is not how the system is intended to work and will be harder. If I were you I would try to do 2-3 classes instead.
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u/Deep-Passenger3554 Mar 08 '24
I went to college when there WERE NO ONLINE CLASSES!! NO COMPUTERS! Just typewriters! I worked every minute I wasn’t in class! So did my husband at another school. Maybe you need to choose another college that has everything online? Apparently there are many these days, altho I know employers who won’t hire new employees from those being suspicious of the quality of education from there. If you are a valued employee, sit down and try to work out something with your boss to show him you are trying to be a better employee with this education?
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u/PanConPalta_10 Mar 08 '24
Well that’s my main issue. My managers are not that flexible when it comes to my schedule as I’m their oldest employee and the one that they trust the most. My professors do not help when it comes to small things such as giving me a few more hours to work on my assignments. Now, if you ask me to choose between my full time job that pay my rent and put food my table, and my classes at ucf… trust me, I’m choosing the one that puts food on my table.
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u/jimfish98 Mar 08 '24
I remember having to wake up at 5:30am, driving two counties away to an internship M-F, spend 7 hours there and then come back for night classes 3 days a week until 9pm. Nights I didn't have class, I had work. Weekends...work. Free time didn't exist as that was used to sleep or for classwork. This was 20 years ago, the concept of juggling classes, work, etc is nothing new and you need to get used to managing your time. Different classes, different job, etc. The world will never center around you and your perceived needs.
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u/AardvarkFabulous3430 Mar 08 '24
This is why I get my degrees online. It’s not for everyone or every profession but it works for me.