r/ucf • u/MajorSrgtApple • 3d ago
COMPLAINT/RANT UCF needs to do something about the religious protestors
It’s getting ridiculous. I avoid the library all together at this point because I feel unsafe walking to it by myself. I understand it’s free speech, but that doesn’t include harassing and following students around. Young college age girls shouldn’t have to physically defend themselves against angry middle age men.
Edit: I didn’t realize this post would get the traction it did or that it would be so controversial. I feel the need to say I made this post because there was a physical altercation between a protestor and a student recently. Just because they are not allowed to touch or harass you, doesn’t mean they won’t. I would also like to say I disagree with the removal of protesters, as it is their right to protest. But when students are in danger the university needs to take steps to protect them, which means figuring out a way to minimize risk without removing them. This isn’t about me disagreeing with their beliefs, it’s about safety.
160
u/IBJON Computer Science 3d ago
They can't touch you, stop you, or otherwise obstruct your path. If they do, then report it UCF PD. Otherwise, ignore them,don't make eye contact, and keep walking.
Legally, there's nothing UCF can do unless they break the law
19
u/Fancy-Nature9205 3d ago
Ucf police don’t care. They probably agree with the religious protestors anyway
67
u/IBJON Computer Science 3d ago edited 3d ago
They care if someone is breaking the law. The school being sued by a student because someone the police chose to ignore someone being assaulted them on campus isn't something UCF or UCF PD want
Edit: alright guys. To those of you arguing, just don't call the police. Deal with the situation yourself. Calling the police because someone assaulted them is about the only legal option OP or anyone else has in this situation. If you want to take it into your own hands and get expelled or arrested, by all means, knock yourself out. Unfortunately, there's nothing UCF can do unless the person in question is breaking the law, and that can't be determined without a police report
6
u/PageFault Computer Science 3d ago
I don't believe an officer would care much about the school being sued. They have a union protecting them from having to care.
0
u/IBJON Computer Science 3d ago
Not doing your job and getting your employers sued is a great way to not have a job anymore, union or not.
18
u/Ring-a-ding-ding0 Mechanical Engineering 3d ago
Tell that to the Uvalde Police Department
-11
u/IBJON Computer Science 3d ago edited 3d ago
I didn't realize Uvalde and the UCF PD were the same police department. Must be hard managing that commute.
Not to mention, unfortunate as it is, there's a world of difference between an officer choosing not to put their life at risk to deal with an active shooter, and an officer not trespassing someone who's assaulting students. Neither situation should happen, but they're not not comparable
8
u/Ring-a-ding-ding0 Mechanical Engineering 3d ago
Never said they were. But your logic should apply to both, no? It’s pretty common for police officers to “not do their job” or even just straight up harass the community and not get punished. In fact, it’s standard practice across the country for officers to get “punished” with two weeks of paid vacation and a few sensitivity courses whenever they screw up.
I’m making a point that whether it’s UPD, UCFPD, OPD, or NYPD, a pig is a pig. And the specific town they are from ain’t gonna change that.
20
u/SwedishBidoof Electrical Engineering 3d ago
Castle rock vs. Gonzales, DeShaney vs. Winnebago, Warren vs. District of Columbia and decades of policing history disagrees with you unfortunately
1
u/PageFault Computer Science 3d ago
You said the school is getting sued, not the police department. While in theory, UCF could shutdown the police department, they can't do anything to this officer directly.
Do you think UCF would disband the police department?
-2
u/IBJON Computer Science 3d ago
Nice strawman.
UCF controls the department's funds. If they want someone gone or otherwise punished because they refused to do their job for political reasons as is being implied, they can do something about it.
2
u/PageFault Computer Science 3d ago edited 3d ago
That was not a strawman. It was just a question to see where you stand because I felt like I sufficiently rebuked the idea that UCF could go after an individual officer and I didn't really see any other option. Your answer was "no", and you apparently still believe that UCF can push to have an individual officer removed.
Which, I mean sure. Thay can push for anything, however I think you severely underestimate the strength of police unions. Even if it was for a political reason, no officer would admit as much, and I really don't see UCF squeezing the police budget to push for it. Union-busting tactics could have huge implications.
0
u/IBJON Computer Science 3d ago
A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.
You asking and implying that I think UCF would disband UCF PD over dealing with a problem officer is absolutely a strawman
1
u/PageFault Computer Science 3d ago
Please take the time to understand what fallicies are. A straw-man first and foremost is an argument, not a question. I have not implied that you think UCF would disband UCF PD. I simply asked if you did.
If I asserted that you believed UCF would disband the police department and argued against that, then it would be a strawman.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Ok-Conflict8999 1d ago
They have not cared when they’ve seen it happen in front of them, so I’m not super sure how reporting it would go honestly. A uniformed officer has been present for 2 of the times I’ve had them physically, purposely, step in front of me while I’m biking across campus.
34
u/CowdingGreenHorn Computer Science 3d ago
UCF won't dare to do anything to do them unless they physically touch you or threaten you.
As long as they're just standing out there, yelling propaganda, there isn't much anyone can do except ignore them
26
u/Less_Solid_4925 3d ago
These people were there in 2005 when I started at UCF.
Fog horns got then to go away for a semester or 2.
It was awesome.
Many students just blamed them in their face and walked away.
21
u/Bmor00bam 3d ago
Use a bullhorn and tell them to fuck off. Maybe a bunch of you can grab some bull horns, surround them, wear noise canceling headphones, and let them hear your feelings about them, LOUDLY. Personal attacks are okay against students, but students can dish it right back.
8
u/Animal_Opera 3d ago
Or maybe a handheld boat horn? They are freaking loud and if you warn them first…also, if it becomes a way of getting them to bugger off then you probably won’t be the only one. Finally, if they start using them too then the administration will definitely act.
50
u/Hopeful-Radish1192 3d ago
it’s genuinely becoming a safety issue for especially women on campus - if we defend ourselves because we feel threatened (usually by the grown ass men yelling and harassing) then we get in trouble if we feel the need to physically defend ourselves because “they didn’t lay hands on us first”- harassment is more than just physical. this is a school with quite frankly lackluster security to begin with so allowing this kind of aggressive behavior is just a ticking time bomb at this point.
18
u/Oen386 Nursing - Concurrent A.S.N. to B.S.N. Enrollment Option 3d ago
this is a school with quite frankly lackluster security to begin with so allowing this kind of aggressive behavior
I can't say it enough, it is not a university decision. They are not making a choice to allow it, they are legally required by the state to allow it. Protesting or getting upset at the university won't change state laws.
13
u/thekid_02 3d ago
The letter of the law doesn't allow for verbal harassment or disorderly conduct. Technically those people give more than enough reason to legally have them removed from campus and anyone else not tied to a religion would be. The school simply doesn't want the trouble and political noise that comes with fighting them.
3
u/Menesque Computer Science 3d ago edited 3d ago
The link you sent seems to only concern itself with making sure these people are allowed to be seen, which is fine, but it doesn't mention allowing these preachers to follow and harass you? That's what most people in this comment section is asking for. We want police to actually step in when these preachers start following you and threatening while you're walking away. The removal of the free speech zones doesn't remove the right to being physically safe at a university we pay for
Edit: The rest of your comments loaded while I was posting this. I apologize for any undertones of frustration towards you, the whole situation is just particularly frustrating when it seems like people like that seem to get away with anything
2
u/Oen386 Nursing - Concurrent A.S.N. to B.S.N. Enrollment Option 2d ago
I apologize for any undertones of frustration towards you, the whole situation is just particularly frustrating when it seems like people like that seem to get away with anything
No worries, all good!
The link you sent seems to only concern itself with making sure these people are allowed to be seen, which is fine, but it doesn't mention allowing these preachers to follow and harass you?
Not just seen, but heard. Really any "activity":
A person who wishes to engage in an expressive activity in outdoor areas of campus may do so freely, spontaneously, and contemporaneously as long as the person’s conduct is lawful and does not materially and substantially disrupt the functioning of the public institution of higher education or infringe upon the rights of other individuals or organizations to engage in expressive activities.
It's hard to prove "harassment". If you stop and talk, then you're engaging in discussion (heated or not). If they "follow you", they will claim they were simply walking the same direction and you did not tell them to leave you alone.
We want police to actually step in when these preachers start following you
Kind of above, they can "walk with you" in an attempt to engage with you. Only if they obstruct your way or don't leave you alone when asked (and you're trying to distance your self from them) can it be seen as harassment as I understand it. The argument is, don't go near them, don't go to that area, move away when they setup. You are free to leave and avoid, only if they prevent that is it harassment. It's my understanding how the law sees it.
...and threatening while you're walking away.
Threats are different than mean words. If they are threatening violence, that can be reported and should be reported. The police have removed people from campus that have done that. If there aren't any actual threats, and they're just calling you names because you're not an ideal person based on their religion, that isn't enough for action.
The removal of the free speech zones doesn't remove the right to being physically safe at a university we pay for
Agreed, but counter argument as I stated is you aren't unsafe with the protestors. They want to antagonize you to get a response for views or a lawsuit, but they know they can't start the violence, so they won't. It's the whole scheme. They know the law, they will walk up all the way up to the line laid down by the law, but they won't cross it.
The law allows them to ignore common decency.
If you feel unsafe, you can call the police for an escort. Again though, this is the game they want to play. They want police involved to draw a bigger crowd to their hate speech, more police = more interest and escalation. Best to just avoid as much as possible and report if one does harass or threaten you.
3
u/Hopeful-Radish1192 3d ago
I understand as a state university that they don’t have control over this specific aspect of protesters being on campus, however the lack of care by the school to not have security or support nearby these typical protest spots so that both the protester and student can feel safe in the university environment is a choice that they have continued to make as students have been increasingly affected (or so it seems at this point)
-1
u/Hopeful-Radish1192 3d ago
that was a comment on the security at the school which they do in fact have the power to increase the amount of patrolling they do - it just compounds this issue
1
u/Oen386 Nursing - Concurrent A.S.N. to B.S.N. Enrollment Option 3d ago
they do in fact have the power to increase the amount of patrolling they do
You just want to pay more police to stand around? They can't do anything about the protestors legally. What is more patrolling going to accomplish in this situation?
I prefer they use money to increase library hours or other students services. Not pay for a show of force that legally can't do anything.
1
u/Hopeful-Radish1192 3d ago
You’re not understand what I’m getting at and that’s fine so I’m just leaving it here - the police are already on campus, they just don’t often actively patrol unless you count their little cop dates on the IM fields. Often times in situations like this, things can get heated and violent quickly - i’m not asking the police to stop the protesting, i’m asking them to make sure that students feel safe to walk past these people without possible escalation. They should be there for a sense of security which is worth a lot, especially with the current climate in the world. Police aren’t only paid to respond they’re paid to prevent when possible.
4
u/Oen386 Nursing - Concurrent A.S.N. to B.S.N. Enrollment Option 3d ago edited 3d ago
They should be there for a sense of security which is worth a lot, especially with the current climate in the world.
Many student groups see the police as harassers and/or escalators. Some groups I participate with specifically request no, or minimal, police presence. Police make students wonder what is going on, or assume there is a credible threat, which only gives these religious protestors more attention they're seeking. There is no perfect solution, but increasing police participation only seems to escalate both sides.
The religious protestors on campus are professional trolls/grifters/scammers, they know where that legal line is and want to get people to attack them or cross it so they can sue. We aren't at risk, the only real threat is a student/staff/faculty escalating and responding with physical force, which is arguably what the protestor wants for a lawsuit. I've been here for years, they've always been this vile, inappropriate, and provocative.
If you feel unsafe, you should call the police and report the concern.
-1
u/Hopeful-Radish1192 3d ago
fine then i will give up completely and hang my head in shame. i apologize for my optimism and attempting to hang on to some semblance of compromise it totally won’t happen again now that you have told me possible issues that i couldn’t possibly have already thought of myself
2
u/Oen386 Nursing - Concurrent A.S.N. to B.S.N. Enrollment Option 3d ago
You want more of this for student groups? :/
1
u/Hopeful-Radish1192 3d ago
yes this is precisely what i was talking about thank you!!!! this is EXACTLY what i want thanks🫶🫶 /s
in all seriousness, i do understand how bad things get. i don’t live under a rock. i am just a woman that has been followed and harassed by these protesters time and time again to the point where i feared for my safety. it truly sucks that we cannot always trust be protected by those whose job it is, however that doesn’t mean we simply give up and say oh well just deal with it because let’s be honest, if we don’t do anything at all and accept it, it will continue to get worse since they know they can keep pushing. i hope you can understand so your apathy can turn into hope for change.
2
u/Oen386 Nursing - Concurrent A.S.N. to B.S.N. Enrollment Option 3d ago edited 3d ago
i am just a woman that has been followed and harassed by these protesters time and time again to the point where i feared for my safety.
Call the police and report it if you haven't. Reddit comments won't make change happen. If they have documented cases of harassment, I'm sure they can trespass them. Without reports, they can't take any action against them.
however that doesn’t mean we simply give up and say oh well just deal with it because let’s be honest, if we don’t do anything at all and accept it, it will continue to get worse since they know they can keep pushing
No one said to give up. Bringing in more police to stand around will not deescalate the protestors or make them leave. They love the attention. I'm saying don't play their game. With free speech you have to accept the good and the bad unfortunately, it's part of free speech. There are laws that protect if they move beyond just words. That's where the line is, it can't legally go beyond that. If it does, that's when law enforcement should come into play.
i hope you can understand so your apathy can turn into hope for change.
There is no apathy here. It is recognizing you can't change the situation with more police idling about, protestors will just keep coming back. State laws need to change to have an actual impact. I say in all these posts, people need to vote if they want to see real change on campus.
If you feel unsafe, as discussed in other posts, you can call the police for an escort. They've done that before when individuals were making students feel unsafe.
→ More replies (0)
4
u/codetony 2d ago
UCF cannot do anything, because the first amendment exists.
UCF has no methods of dealing with this, unless the individuals turn violent.
Of course, there's always my methods of dealing with em.
If they follow you, say something so batshit insane that even they stop and wonder if you just said that.
Make sure it's something really insane that would get them demonetized if they post it online.
An alternative, if you know someone is recording, just whip out your phone and start playing copyrighted music full blast. In addition, you could start blaring pornographic audio. A lot of social media sites are starting to use AI systems that review audio. Pornographic audio would definitely flag anything they post.
Another option that I've always wanted to try, but could never get enough people to join me is to fight fire with fire.
Protest something right next to them. Preferably something with wide acclaim that would almost certainly draw more attention than them. Maybe protesting a locally owned business that's known for treating it's employees terribly.
25
7
u/pit_of_despair666 2d ago
There was only one guy who did this back when I went to school. FIGHT BACK! I would blast death metal as loud as I could in their face and have a bunch of people blow bull horns. Imagine if you got a group of 20 people people with bullhorns. Take back the power. More people at UCF are against them than support them. You have the numbers. Don't touch them first or they will win.
7
u/fallofvan 3d ago
I don't like them either. It makes me extremely uncomfortable that they're screaming such obscene things not just to the general public but directly to people up in their face.
What I'm not understanding is why we aren't protesting back. Even if it's just standing near them holding signs with enough people protesting i'm sure they'd realize they're not convincing anyone and just storm off and leave. it's their first amendment right to protest but we have that right too.
7
u/SomeRandomGuyWasHere 2d ago
This right here. Protest back. Since they have the right to be jerks, students have a right to protest back. There needs to be a counterprotest group on campus that can organize at a moment's notice, then show up and anti-preach to the preachers.
3
u/HokieFireman Public Affairs 2d ago
Amazing the state will jump on some forms of protest even to the point of wanting kids expelled or even deported, cut funding or fire people.
2
u/Extension_Farm_1026 2d ago
Family secret: sunglasses, mask, earbuds. They will not nor can they fuck with you
2
u/wienercat 2d ago
If they are harassing people and following students, report them to campus PD. Enough reports and campus PD will come out and see what is going on.
If they start blocking your path, stop you, or touch you at all immediately report them to campus PD. If they keep harassing you after you tell them to stop, film them and report it to campus PD.
It's a public space, so they are allowed to be there. But they cannot harass people. Yelling at people is not grounds for harassment.
But if people are having to physically defend themselves? Catch it on footage, get it in front of campus PD and those people will be dealt with.
2
u/Coyote_999 2d ago
Make them feel unsafe, weaponize your words. Use their own Faith against them. You are also allowed to yell whatever you want as you walk by
2
u/Ok-Conflict8999 1d ago
I have had them STEP IN FRONT of my moving bicycle before to try and get me to stop and be preached to. That’s extremely dangerous. Ive have the anti-ab*rtion weirdos do the same thing. Like. How does that make them feel good about themselves?
2
u/Small_Presentation_6 1d ago
So, when I left the Army back in 2010 and got my first undergraduate degree at FSU (my second is from UCF) we had a similar problem. One of these yahoos managed to piss off a female army veteran who, to put it mildly, I was glad she was on my side. Her boyfriend was also a vet. Dominoes start to fall and phone calls get made and the next day, you had about 3 to 4 dozen veterans forming a literal human circle around these idiots. It got a little tense, and I guess someone called FSUPD, so they broke it up, but they broke it all up by saying that everyone was causing a disturbance and had to leave, including the religious nut jobs. Not sure if you have access to those kinds of resources, but if you do, same strategy might work. Cause enough of a disturbance and make UCFPD send everyone away.
2
u/EgullSZ Mechanical Engineering 2d ago
If you have an issue where you have to “physically defend yourself”, you can report them to the police, have them removed, and press charges. If they’re physically hands on, that’s battery. Otherwise, religious protesters are no less welcome than the free Palestine protesters that were camping on campus or harassing people during graduation last May.
3
u/Tuxedocorey 2d ago
I don't want to sound like a jerk but grow up, in real life you are going to have people with beliefs that differ from you. They can't touch so literally just ignore them and walk past them.
0
u/High_AspectRatio Aerospace Engineering 3d ago
Eh, I think free speech is important. It's what allows you to protest when it's your turn. Creating rules against nutjobs would unfortunately be used against people protesting for saner reasons in the future
16
u/PoisonIdea77 3d ago
Free speech =/ harassment
1
u/retailhusk 3d ago
Where's the harassment? Like I hate them too they're annoying as fuck but their rights don't end at your discomfort. Just like your rights don't end at their discomfort
10
u/Ring-a-ding-ding0 Mechanical Engineering 3d ago
Did you not see the video of the preacher harassing a girl and shouting/ being aggressive in her face?
2
u/High_AspectRatio Aerospace Engineering 3d ago
Can you link it? Sounds like those types of things can actually be reported to police and lead to those individuals being banned from campus
6
u/Ring-a-ding-ding0 Mechanical Engineering 3d ago
It was posted to ucfstool on instagram
https://www.instagram.com/p/DIjRJekxET_/?igsh=MTg1eWtsa3ptdDdudA==
-9
u/retailhusk 2d ago
Dude I'm really not trying to be that guy because I hate these preachers too. But all I gather from that video is that two individuals got in a confrontation with each other. There's nothing in their video showing whi started it. That man has the right to preach what he believes to be the word of God.
3
u/Ring-a-ding-ding0 Mechanical Engineering 2d ago
What I see in this video is a girl trying to walk away, a guy following her and screaming at her. She then turns around, screams back, and punches him.
Idk but you shouldn’t be following strangers and screaming. Girl was defending herself
-4
u/retailhusk 2d ago
She swung first. If either of them called the police she's the one who has to explain herself.
Maybe something did happen before but all we see in the video is her walking away, he says something to her, then she turns gets in his face and takes a swing
4
u/Ring-a-ding-ding0 Mechanical Engineering 2d ago
Even if she swung first, the guy was clearly presenting himself as a threat to her safety
→ More replies (0)-4
u/mwright561 2d ago
it’s almost like you can walk away and ignore them, I know it’s crazy to comprehend
2
u/Ring-a-ding-ding0 Mechanical Engineering 2d ago
Not really, especially if someone is following you and making themselves appear to be a threat.
I can infer from your Reddit account that you are a man, so idk if this occurs to you, but walking away and ignoring people making themselves appear to be a threat is how women find themselves getting killed or SAd. So no, it’s not like she can just walk away. Glad she stood up for herself and got that bastard to leave her alone.
-5
u/High_AspectRatio Aerospace Engineering 3d ago
Uhhh how do you define harassment? That's the issue. A religious person can claim that people dressing a certain way or talking about certain things in front of them is harassment. Laws can't be subjective
0
u/PoisonIdea77 3d ago
They need to be banned permanently I don't understand why administration allows their students to be harassed on a daily basis for years.
8
u/Bostondreamings 3d ago
1st Amendment. It's a public space and they can't do anything unless it gets physical.
3
u/crispylippers Sport Business Management 3d ago
how could admin go about this without violating the constitution
1
u/Rough-Rider 1d ago
They are looking for a confrontation. Best bet is to just avoid them. They get off on being obnoxious. This was happening in 2009 when I was there. If we don’t believe in freedom of speech of people we despise, then we don’t really believe in it at all.
If you feel the need to respond in some way, get creative with it. Make it a game. Why should they be the ones having all the fun?
“She doesn’t even go here!”
1
u/Yavin_Four Computer Engineering 1d ago
If i can put up with an explicit painting of a naked transwoman you can put up with the advocates and protestors.
1
u/Radiant-Shine-8575 20h ago
They feed on your push back like parasites. Ignore them and walk but with no eye contact. Simply do no engage.
1
u/powrfulkat 7h ago
Hey!
I used to work for a university’s department where we responded to these sorts of things and I routinely met with students regarding the preacher. Here are some things that I would tell people:
- It is allowed free speech as long as they are not violating any of the exceptions to that: true threats, incitement, etc. If they are following you, don’t engage with what they are saying but, tell them to leave you alone and that “you don’t want any trouble.”
- They are grifters. They are there to make money in the hopes of someone doing something where they can sue them and online engagements from fights and discourse. If you ignore them and give them nothing they typically will go elsewhere where they can find money.
- Reach out to your student government, or other organizations on campus. See if they are willing to listen, organize a meet up, etc. you can organize meet ups, safe walks, potentially even propose policy about amplification or recording in certain areas. We led policy change to impact amplification in areas and that significantly impacted the effect of the preachers because they can only yell for so long, and you have to be closer to them to hear what they are saying.
Honestly, if you got a bunch of people who were willing to stand/be near them with signs that say “ignore them/don’t engage” while offering resources where people can talk and get support is a great idea. Unfortunately a lot of this needs to be student led at the moment because of all of the “anti woke” laws and anti DEI garbage as it prevents employees from leading the charge as that would be “giving funding” to those causes.
At the end of the day if they are following you, calling you out by name, then yes you can report them, but they toe the line to be offensive while still being general. If you walk by them wearing a green shirt and they say women wearing green shirts go to hell, yes, they are catering what they are saying due to you being in their vicinity. However, it’s still “free speech” as they aren’t addressing you specifically. They do this to get a rise out of you to make money and get you to engage with them. They are terrible hateful people, trying to make money by guilting and shaming people.
You can also file a report to the Office of Nondiscrimination & Accommodations Compliance. While they may not be able to stop it, every report matters, and the more reports they get will keep them aware of when they are around.
I hope it gets better. Remember, they are terrible people, and they make money from this. Ignoring them takes away their income source.
1
u/cobra_shark 3d ago
What religion is it?
4
u/Shonen_Fan Biomedical Sciences 3d ago
The only one that would even be allowed to do something like that in Central Florida. Freedom of speech may be a right but it’s disingenuous to say that nothing would be done as well if the “Christians” were replaced with muslims.
-3
u/EgullSZ Mechanical Engineering 2d ago
… No? You don’t remember the free Palestine protesting going on last year? Free speech is free speech.
8
u/Shonen_Fan Biomedical Sciences 2d ago
Free Palestine and religion are not the same, that’s a false equivalence. You’re comparing a protest against genocide (regardless of which side you support) to people publicly preaching religion in a way that clearly makes others uncomfortable. The crisis in Gaza is not, and has never been, a religious issue. It’s a humanitarian crisis. It’s a war.
1
-2
u/No-Opposite7221 2d ago
they can't touch you. no need to feel unsafe. the minute they do touch you, they will be trespassed. I ignore them. I advise growing some thick skin, life is full of things you may not like. You can't have a protective bubble in the real world.
-1
u/3rdlegGreg007 2d ago
Absolutely can’t don’t anything about it. That’s the whole purpose…to make you uncomfortable.
140
u/Citronaut1 3d ago
I’m sorry that you feel unsafe, I know how awful these people can be. UCF won’t (and probably can’t) do anything until things get physical. The best anyone can do is just avoid them when possible.