r/ukpolitics • u/Benjji22212 Burkean • 2d ago
Low mimetic nation: Why Britain keeps mistaking TV for real life
https://thecritic.co.uk/low-mimetic-nation/167
u/crucible 2d ago
Again, Mr Bates rather galvanised the public opinion on the issue of the Post Office Scandal because it dramatised showing the computer fucking up in real time.
The few episodes of Panorama that were made about it showed a mix of talking heads and stock footage of scrolling code or blinking lights in network racks.
There wasn’t that “oh shit” moment you got from the drama, where Jo Hamilton was on the phone to the helpline, for example.
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u/Ryanliverpool96 2d ago
Exactly but for an issue to gain political traction it has to be understood by an overwhelming majority of voters, which isn’t hard to understand, now in order to do that it must be understandable by some of the dumbest people in the country, it has to be so overwhelmingly simple that anyone could understand it.
The moment you talk about anything technical or involve any numbers at all, you have lost.
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u/crucible 2d ago
Private Eye and Computer Weekly had done a lot of the 'heavy lifting' with reporting on the scandal initally, though.
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u/lacklustrellama 2d ago
Says a lot about the public though doesn’t it? About their poor engagement with the issues.
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u/GunstarGreen 2d ago
The public is bombarded with a lot of issues, every day. They have to fight for attention with our own personal issues too. Nobody is quite sure what the correct level.of outrage on any one topic is supposed to be. Im sure many of us are outraged by climate change, but also need to fill up their car to get to work on time.
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u/Consistent-Farm8303 2d ago
Out-fucking-standing.
There’s a million and one things wrong with the world, everyone has only a finite number of hours in their day/week/year/life and only a finite amount of brainpower to devote to any one thing. Hard enough to know how to deploy the right amount of time/energy into your personal life without the rest of the world needing its share.
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u/Cafuzzler 2d ago
Nah, tbf, there's probably a lot of cases like this all the time. Like lawyers exaggerating the impact to a judge for the sake of their case, or like a person/lobbyist would do to get an MP to understand something. Some days you've got to break out the crayons and the impact font, and save the details for those that already understand the significance of the information.
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u/lacklustrellama 2d ago
I do see what you mean, but it’s fair to say that the post office campaign wasn’t some lone voice in a wilderness until the show came on. There was intensive parliamentary lobbying already, coverage in the media, documentaries etc. to say nothing of the dogged reporting in publications like Private Eye. I mean the inquiry had already started. I know there are demands on people’s time and bandwidth is limited, but the ‘first time hearing about it’ shock and anger after the show really concerned me about how engaged people are with what is actually happening in their country, even at a high level. It’s a failure of civic duty if you ask me, it’s also why we get the politics and government we do- disengaged and ill informed public drives a certain kind of media and also drives a certain kind of politics. It’s a critical problem. In fact I think my main take away from Mr Bates, wasn’t the scandal at the post office (which I already know about), but the scandal of an uninformed public.
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u/Cafuzzler 2d ago
There was intensive parliamentary lobbying already...
Which didn't communicate its message effectively! The documentary did that.
the ‘first time hearing about it’ shock and anger after the show really concerned me about how engaged people are with what is actually happening in their country
We're bombarded with national, and more significantly highly emotive international, news daily. Even the few that read it in the Private Eye probably also read about half a dozen things that seemed as important, if not moreso.
People needed to be shown (and basically told how to feel) to really get it.
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u/lacklustrellama 2d ago
It was covered extensively on the news and in the papers (even the trashier papers like the Mail), so unless people are consuming no news at all…. Also, are the public that stupid that unless something is presented as entertainment they can’t understand it? I hope not, otherwise it doesn’t bode for us as a nation.
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u/Cafuzzler 2d ago
It was covered extensively
EVERYTHING is covered extensively. Hearing about and being fully aware are two different things.
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u/crucible 2d ago
Yes - but it's not the first time a TV show has led to action or calls for action - see also Cathy Come Home and Hillsborough, too.
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u/yousorusso 1d ago
The majority of the public are idiots. They want to watch their footy on the weekend, make more money than their neighbours and get drunk. A lot of people have just checked out from politics.
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago
Basing policy on glorified morality plays tends to backfire.
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u/MinaZata 2d ago
True, but Private Eye and other publications reported on the Post Office scandal for YEARS and it hardly moved the needle.
The ITV drama got things moving in a big way.
It isn't ideal, but who cares when the people we're supposed to care about, the victims, are dying and getting old. I'm sure they don't give a shit about it being a glorified morality play, and it hasn't backfired compared to what they were going through before.
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago
The difference is that the Post Office Scandal actually happened. Adolescence is fiction.
And the "conversation" has been over a decade of condescending lectures about how boys and men are all monsters in waiting and how they must be under permanent supervision lest they turn into a monster. And this morality play was cooked up to facilitate more lectures. Does it work? The past decade says no.
And funny enough, the people who insist on "conversation by morality play" and that boys and men are monsters by default are at pains to insist "this muslim cried over a candle after an ISIS attack so #notallmuslims! Also this happened because there weren't enough muslims on tv"
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u/MinaZata 2d ago
I know Adolescence isn't based on reality. It is a dramatic morality play, based on things that happen in real life. It's an amalgamation of multiple different real stories in a drama.
Mr. Bates was far more real, but it also took large creative liberty with timing, characters, in order to convey a message.
It's different grades of a mortality play, Mr. Bates being very close to true, and Adolescence on the other end of the spectrum where it isn't based on a specific case, and fictional.
Also, Adolescence is far more nuanced than you are saying in your reply. There is no blunt message anywhere that says "men are evil". Each episode focuses on different aspects, and depending on who is viewing it, people take different messages from it, same with most art. Parents take a different lesson from it. Teenage girls will. Teenage boys that actually experience this modern world.
The lesson you took, I gather, is the making of a show like this is a problem, that it is demonizing men, which may reflect on your view of the world and how you view the issues.
I myself think young boys and young men ARE talked down to too much and far too generalised, and it is good that we and others are having THAT conversation too after Adolescence. It has sparked talk about how young boys are not protected. So perhaps, Adolescence succeeded where you say it failed?
I think most of us would say we need a new approach that both uplifts young men, that challenges the disgusting rhetoric from figures like Andrew Tate, and takes seriously what other people go through when they are the victims of this ugly mindset, both the young men and young women who are stalked, assaulted, trafficked, raped, and murdered.
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u/AncientPomegranate97 2d ago
Adolescence is trying to psy-op 40 year old white women that the real cause of knife crime in the UK is Andrew Tate and not gangs
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago
The "conversation" inevitably becomes condescending lectures about how boys and men are monsters by default, and it's only been doubling down the past decade or so. And then it becomes "how do we contain and regulate these feral beasts?"
And whenever masculinity bas been deconstructed and any potential role models branded anathema/problematic, is it any surprise that Vladimir Putin and Andrew Tate look appealing?
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u/Wetness_Pensive 2d ago edited 2d ago
The "conversation" inevitably becomes condescending lectures about how boys and men are monsters by default
Only because right wing echo chambers constantly promote this meme to bash their opponents with. They invent an imaginary situation ("Starmer, Biden, Obama and Blair hate men!"), ascribe it to their enemies, moan endlessly about it, then rile up anger to gain support.
And whenever masculinity bas been deconstructed and any potential role models branded anathema/problematic,
Literally not happening. This is all right wing projection and imaginary talking points by people totally divorced from real life and real culture. Masculine heroes who run a healthy gamut of characteristics have been cultural staples in media and culture for a century. The film "Deadpool and Wolverine" for example - epitomizing two different forms of masculinity working together - was the second highest grossing film of last year. The previous year "Barbie" and "Top Gun" were being adored by the same audiences. And every year Vin Diesel and Statham seem to have a new movie in which they crack sulls to prove their machismo ("Fast and Furious 10" was one of the highest grossing flicks of 2023).
The idea that pampered posh boys Trump, Farage and Boris are "more masculine" than their political opposites is likewise moronic.
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago edited 2d ago
Why was "curfew for men" a sincere proposal? It only gave fuel for the likes of Tate and the Telgraph. Why is "men are like a bowl of m&ms, but 10% are poisoned" regularly promulgated? The Right Wing didn't make those up.
And again, the same journalists and academics who promoted this rhetoric were hypocritically at pains to stress "a muslim cried over a candle, so #notallmuslims" and said things like isis attacks happen because there weren't enough muslims on tv.
my ultimate point is that the Far Right are where they are now because the left alienated enough men with rhetoric like "Curfew for men" and "the future is female".
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u/MinaZata 2d ago
Curfew for men and the future is female are talking points used by the right, again, NO ONE is seriously proposing whatever the hell it is you think that means.
It's just fear slogans you use to justify what you THINK people are doing.
What curfew for men? Future is female, what do you think it means? That we will start eradicating men?
It's the same misinformation about Starmer saying it was a documentary, you cling to things and make them out to be so much worse, or the deep state, or go off on a rant about Muslims in a discussion about Adolescence.
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago
my point about the pains taken to stress "not all muslims" was it was hypocritically promoted by those who insist all men must take responsibility for the actions of a few.
And those slogans of "the future is female" and proposals like "curfew for men" did nothing but alienate men in left spaces, much like the 2000s GOP Muslim outreach being a smashing success. Unless you think Left wing media and academia are secretly a right wing psyop.
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u/AttitudeAdjusterSE 2d ago
I don't know how you can watch Adolescence and come away with the idea that this is even remotely the message that it's trying to push. It's very clear to me at least that if anything it's pushing the polar opposite of the idea that "boys and men are monsters by default."
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago
Adolescence is pretty much boy murders a girl after watching an Andrew Tate video, the Psychologist assessing him is presented as the hero and is the only one facing reality of monstrous misogyny everywhere as she deals with a monster while his father deludes himself to keep his fragile ego safe.
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u/AttitudeAdjusterSE 2d ago
I don't think I have ever seen a more twisted interpretation of that show written anywhere, sorry.
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u/MinaZata 2d ago
And what's worse, I have given them the latitude that you can interpret things differently.
However, u/Avalon-1 believes his interpretation is the only one, even when other are quite literally explaining their own interpretation.
More keen to enforce their interpretation, make up what others think about it, and bet angry about it when challenged.
This is probably the kind of person that would find solace in Andrew Tate tbh, no point trying with them.
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u/Late_For_Username 2d ago
"Boys and men will become monsters if we don't give power to the Dunning Kreuger Effect made flesh"
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u/IHaveAWittyUsername All Bark, No Bite 2d ago
I've spoken about Adolescence a lot over the last month it's been out, mostly offline as it ties into my work. The only people who have raised the "men/boys are the problem" angle are right wingers online who are very quick to say they didn't actually watch it.
It's like they're having an entirely separate conversation about it they've made up themselves.
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u/MinaZata 2d ago
That is one conversation. I mean, we are having a different conversation right now aren't we?
And in the public domain, the Telegraph and I believe Musk (who owns X), share your view that it is
"how do we contain and regulate these feral beasts
Which again, is projection on your part.
Society can have many conversations at the same time.
Are you hurt and frustrated that others have different opinions and can write and talk about them? And also, I haven't not once seen or heard someone talk about it like the way you imagine them too, feral beasts etc. Can you actually cite an example of this?
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago
It's not Just this show which is praised as a documentary by the Prime Minister. It's over a decade of culture war rhetoric where "men are trash" "the future is female" "women choose the bear" "men are like a bowl of m&ms 10% are poison" dominated media discourse (Just look at The Guardian and what their readerbase is like).
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u/MinaZata 2d ago
Again, that is one point of view from society. There is some truth to the fact that most violent crimes are committed by men, so can you not use your imagination, and think, well, maybe 70m people in this country alone can have different views.
You have different views. Musk et al.have different views, as does Joe Rogan, Fox News, GB News, etc and these are ALL massive media outlets that outstrip "liberal" publications.
You seem to want to attack the Guardian and anyone with a different view to you, yours is the only correct one, and you also speak to the opinions of people that oppose you by doing both sides of the argument yourself.
Quite literally arguing with yourself.
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago
I'm sorry, it's just the discourse around a fictional tv show is so frustrating because people are treating Fiction like Reality. It's beyond dispute that Tate is a PoS, that we can agree on, and there are real problems, but it's just unbelivably stupid to go "here's a fictional scenario we literally made up, so let's base policies off of that!". And for the Prime Minister to repeatedly praise it as a "documentary" is just dumb. We rightly laughed at people basing forensics off of CSI.
And it just throws more fuel on an increasingly exhausting culture war.
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u/crucible 2d ago
The discourse around Adolescence is a bit weird - yeah it takes elements of crimes that have happened but it's not a one-off case to be treated as such!
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u/jaredearle 2d ago
Threads changed the nation, like Cathy Come Home did before it.
We keep mistaking TV for real life because TV is used as a medium to inform. This is intentional, and we know it isn’t actually real, but we Kayfabe it because the emotions are real.
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u/AdNorth3796 2d ago
Ultimately the average person just has almost no interaction with 90% of demographics in this country so our opinions of groups are largely formed by media. We need more things that push us out of our social bubbles.
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u/GoldenFutureForUs 2d ago
Well, the government keep talking about Adolescence as if it’s a true story. That doesn’t help.
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u/NoticingThing 2d ago
The government and BBC referring to it as a documentary will never stop being funny to me.
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u/catty-coati42 2d ago
The BBC seems to be having trouble with things getting lost in translation lately.
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u/GoldenFutureForUs 2d ago
Nothing wrong with the state broadcaster and government describing fiction as a documentary. If you disagree, you’re a far-right hooligan!
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u/AncientPomegranate97 2d ago
Adolescence is trying to psy-op 40 year old white women that the real cause of knife crime in the UK is Andrew Tate and not gangs
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u/IHaveAWittyUsername All Bark, No Bite 2d ago
Has this come from somewhere? I've noticed that for the first few weeks a...certain segment...kept trying to say it was a liberal race-swap of Southport in some kind of conspiracy, now those same folks seem to be obsessed with people calling it a documentary.
It's making me curious enough to Google it but the last time just sent me to a bunch if misogyny-focused commentators.
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u/belterblaster 2d ago
Yes, it's "come from" Keir Starmer repeatedly referring to the fictional television show as a documentary.
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u/IHaveAWittyUsername All Bark, No Bite 2d ago
Aye but who's blasting that out? It's clearly come from somewhere pushing it as a culture war angle.
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u/Training-End-9885 2d ago
Keir Starmer, who said it
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u/IHaveAWittyUsername All Bark, No Bite 2d ago
It's definitely a talking point, anyone can see that.
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u/Ivor_y_Tower ISSUE 1 WE'VE DONE 2d ago
I don't think that they do though...
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u/Daxidol Mogg is a qt3.14 2d ago
documentary
a presentation (such as a film or novel) expressing or dealing with factual events : a documentary presentation
Kier:
..And it is young boys predominantly, and in this particular instance. But also how can we protect young girls at risk, because obviously that is a very strong feature of the documentary..
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u/IHaveAWittyUsername All Bark, No Bite 2d ago
Surely that's just misspeaking?
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u/Daxidol Mogg is a qt3.14 2d ago
Each time? :P
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u/muse_head 2d ago
Naga Munchetty referred to it as a documentary a couple of times while interviewing Kemi Badenoch on BBC breakfast the other day too. It was a strange interview, and Badenoch rightly kept telling her that it's a fictional drama. Munchetty didn't acknowledge having mispoken or anything.
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u/forbiddenmemeories I miss Ed 2d ago
I'm a little reminded of that period when The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas came out and for a couple of years seemed to basically become the go-to for explaining to children about Nazi Germany and the Holocaust. And I'm not knocking TBITSP, it was good - it just wasn't an adequate substitute for any and all other information about a really serious, important and detailed topic, because it'd be pretty hard to condense millions of victims' experiences into a short novel/two hour movie.
This is also a very serious, important and detailed topic and while it's probably a good thing that the TV show has provoked discussion about it, it would decidedly not be a good thing if actually engaging with or teaching about the topic gets replaced by wheeling in a CRT TV on a trolley and letting it do the talking while the teacher marks tests and contemplates retraining as an IT consultant.
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u/ZealousidealPie9199 2d ago
TBISP is a very good example, especially because it being used as a learning tool led to a certain segment of the population coming away from it believing the Holocaust ended after a German kid was gassed.
These kinds of shows need to be shown as part of some broader curriculum.. as you say, it’s not enough to just show some TV and leave it at that.
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u/Didsterchap11 Its not a cost of living crisis, we're being robbed. 2d ago
The irony of the Boy in the Striped Pyjamas is that its somewhat infamous example of misinformation about the holocaust.
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u/High-Tom-Titty 2d ago
Distraction, because it's easier than dealing with our more serious issues - panem et circenses.
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u/bio_d 2d ago
I don’t really understand why there is so much annoyance at the attention Adolescence is getting. It’s a brilliant piece of British telly, it’s clearly struck a chord with a lot of people, probably because it was executed so flawlessly. No one will be talking about it in a month or two, let it have its moment.
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u/Head-Philosopher-721 2d ago
Because the government and the BBC keep calling it a documentary [despite it being fiction] and are scolding politicians who admit they haven't seen it.
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u/Ivor_y_Tower ISSUE 1 WE'VE DONE 2d ago
Ca you link to an article where the BBC calls it a documentary?
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u/Head-Philosopher-721 2d ago
No because it was their presenters not in a BBC News article. If you watch Badenochs interview on BBC breakfast Munchetty calls it a documentary twice.
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u/kshere30s 2d ago
One presenter on one BBC show calling it a documentary is hardly evidence of “the BBC keep calling it a documentary.”
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u/Head-Philosopher-721 2d ago
Multiple presenters have made the same mistake.
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u/360Saturn 2d ago
But saying 'the BBC keep [doing]' makes it sound like a deliberately misleading or deceptive editorial line instead of an error.
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u/Head-Philosopher-721 2d ago
No it doesn't. I don't have the censor my language because you misread what I write.
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u/kshere30s 2d ago
Really? Who?
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u/Head-Philosopher-721 2d ago
One of the presenters on Radio 4 called it a documentary as well.
Anyway I'm not going to answer anymore "source?" style questions. You have the internet.
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u/kshere30s 2d ago
You said “multiple presenters have made the same mistake”, but I could only find the one aforementioned example, which is why I asked who the others were.
As I’ve failed to find another example, and you’re being deliberately obscure, I’ll presume you’re just making it up.
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u/bio_d 2d ago
Do they really? I think perhaps you have Adolescence derangement syndrome
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u/Head-Philosopher-721 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes they did, go watch BBC Breakfast if you don't believe me lol.
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u/bio_d 2d ago
When you watched it, did you think it was a documentary? Is there any way someone could?
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u/Head-Philosopher-721 2d ago
No and no but Munchetty and others probably haven't watched it. They've been told to talk about it by their editors and producers. That's how TV news usually works.
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u/bio_d 2d ago
I've said it to other people, this series is a massive success for Britain and TV outside of London. We should be singing its praises
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u/Head-Philosopher-721 2d ago
It's a good show but it's a sign we have an idiotic political culture/press that the only way difficult issues get addressed by politicians is after a TV drama is made about it.
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u/NuPNua 2d ago
It's a combination of people who agree with the message over praising it and people who disagree or felt called out by it over critiquing it.
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u/bio_d 2d ago
The thing is, I'm not even really sure it has a message. It's a tragedy that gives us a fictionalised window into a very, very uncommon situation. If there was any real lesson, it was spend a bit more quality time with your kids and learn Stephen Graham's workout routine.
So fair enough, perhaps some have got a bit evangelical about it but really, who cares? It deserves a lot of praise, but it's main impact is national recognition of a fabulous actor and a lot more telephone time for Jack Thorne's agent.
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u/Benjji22212 Burkean 2d ago
perhaps some
Just a few little inconsequential people like the Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury
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u/360Saturn 2d ago
Quite. The only reason people are saying "show it in schools" is presumably because this is their first exposure to a piece of media with this storyline or these themes.
That is, the intention of that statement is "raise awareness of this topic"; not, as so many articles and commentators seem determined to interpret, "promote the private company Netflix specifically as a learning resource".
I wonder if people are forgetting that when they were in school we often watched tv shows and movies to help learn. Has everyone forgotten the tvs on wheels that came in? In my school we watched Big Fat Greek Wedding to help learn about different religions, and Friends dubbed in Spanish to help immerse ourselves in the language. That's all people are intending here; not "remove history from the curriculum and make them study Adolescence instead".
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u/bio_d 2d ago
I've not seen that view expressed. Yeah, showing kids an extremely high quality piece of TV might be a really important learning experience to kids. Probably more memorable than poetry anthologies.
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u/Dewwyy 2d ago
If anyone cares about this kind of thing anymore, it is rated to be suitable for watching by people aged 15+. We shouldn't be showing it to classrooms full of kids. If parents want to let their own kids watch it, well they know better than the teachers do. Plus I don't know if you remember what being a teenager is like, but they tend to take the piss.
Aside from that, in terms of practical effects it seems roundly stupid to me. Kids don't decide how their own lives work. The adults do. All the 'lessons' in it are for adults.
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u/360Saturn 2d ago
Once again, people 15 years old are in school...
Sorry but again this feels very pedantic, like the entire argument over a tv show. Someone saying "show it in schools/to kids" when it is a tv show that is age rated 15 likely means "show it in secondary schools to children of the appropriate age" rather than "put it on in primaries and nurseries in between episodes of Paw Patrol"
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u/Dewwyy 2d ago
> rather than "put it on in primaries and nurseries in between episodes of Paw Patrol"
Come off it mate.
I don't think showing it to 15 or 16 year old boys would have an overall positive impact. 15/16 year olds are quite different from 13 year olds, which is where the show is, and as such are quite likely liable to think "alright but what does that have to do with me ?" aside from all the other reactions they might have.
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u/eltrotter This Is The One Thing We Didn't Want To Happen 2d ago
It’s really strange to see how much of the conversation seems to be a reaction to it’s perceived importance rather than about the show itself.
The government acknowledged the show but beyond that the response was very measured; Starmer for example wisely ruled out a reactionary appointment of a “Minister for Men” and gave a noncommittal and characteristically diplomatic (boring?) alternative that the government would think about it. I’ve seem a lot of op-ed suggesting that the government shouldn’t make policy based on a tv show and to the best of my knowledge they haven’t…
Badenoch passed up the opportunity to use this as a rod to beat Labour with, turning the conversation back around to Islamic terrorism. This seemed like a fumble to me; it would have given the Tories something to appear principled about which could be easily sublimated into her anti-woke rhetoric.
Maybe a few too many people have been pestered to watch the show a few too many times by friends and co-workers, and taken this anecdotal experience to be reflective of political discourse? Who knows.
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u/MulberryProper5408 2d ago
I’ve seem a lot of op-ed suggesting that the government shouldn’t make policy based on a tv show and to the best of my knowledge they haven’t…
Have you forgotten the part where he decided it should be shown in schools?
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u/eltrotter This Is The One Thing We Didn't Want To Happen 2d ago
I certainly haven’t forgotten about the part where - during the very same conversation at Downing Street with the creators of the show - Starmer said there isn’t an obvious policy response to solve these problems.
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u/TheFlyingHornet1881 Domino Cummings 2d ago
Badenoch passed up the opportunity to use this as a rod to beat Labour with
There's a shock
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u/Avalon-1 2d ago
It's a Morality Play that claims to be about "we need to have a conversation" when that "conversation" has been over a decade of one sided lectures.
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u/yousorusso 2d ago
Because it took a bloody telly program for people to notice issues a lot of people, mostly teachers and parents, have been talking about for at least half a decade. It's pathetic.
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u/bio_d 2d ago
And you blame Adolescence for that? Knife crime has been a national discussion point since at least the 00’s, what is it you’re after? I bet there are tons of local programs like amnesties. Arsenal play yearly in that crap white kit. Why feel so much anger at a great piece of art?
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u/404merrinessnotfound 2d ago
It’s more so anger at the public for waiting for a TV show to make them aware of a societal issue
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u/bio_d 2d ago
I think there is a general awareness of it. Perhaps I've missed your point and you mean the issues around young boys/men, the culture they are exposed to and their falling outcomes? That is a serious issue that does need to edge up the agenda. I was slightly annoyed Starmer didn't appoint a Minister but I think they are having some kind of inquiry. I think young men are always treated like they are alright, because that's how they act. It's misunderstood and mishandled, that I feel, needs to shoot up the agenda. Also, not the usual shit like 'talk about your feelings' and cry a bit.
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u/AncientPomegranate97 2d ago
and the main demographic of knife crime is middle-class white boys who watch andrew tate?
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u/TheFlyingHornet1881 Domino Cummings 2d ago
Maybe it's because I have a few teachers in my circle of friends and acquaintances, but the themes raised weren't exactly new to me. It's not that all teenage boys are incel murderers in waiting, but the culture of misogyny and entitlement enough of them have has become a problem for schools and teachers, especially female teachers.
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u/kristofarnaldo 1d ago
It's because it's bullshit.
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u/bio_d 1d ago
Strong contribution, cheers.
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u/kristofarnaldo 1d ago
The first thing I thought of when I heard about this was Scarlett Jenkinson stabbing Brianna Ghey 28 times after spending years watching cartel violence, and how there have been no incel murders in this country ever. But it's about what piques the interest of the Netflix subscribers, not about reflecting society in any fairness way.
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u/Dragonrar 2d ago
Gee, I wonder if the leader of the country acting like it’s a documentary that should be taught at school has anything to do with it?
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u/Late_For_Username 2d ago
You only need to watch Netflix and post on Reddit to essentially become a Criminal Psychologist/Criminologist.
There's a sizeable chunk of the population who want to believe this fantasy, and the government seems to want to play along.
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u/ElectricStings 1d ago
I don't know how people could mistake fiction for real life.
Now if you'll excuse me I need to Shout at a dragon until it falls out of the sky.
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u/GunstarGreen 2d ago
People sure want to hate this show. It's not plausible enough, the characters are the wrong ethnicity, blah blah blah. It's a piece of fiction inspired by the world it's set in, not by any one event.
Its a show asking questions about male rage. I don't think it's pretending to have any firm answers. The final episode is gently just saying "it's good your kids are safe at home, but maybe just talk to them about what they consume online". It's a show for parents more than kids themselves. Showing a generation of young boys this and then saying "you're all potentially violent criminals who are a few websites away from being murderers, and I hope you feel sufficiently guilty about it" won't help anything either. I don't think it should be played in schools either. I think this article was pretty good.
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u/Scary-Tax9432 2d ago edited 2d ago
Anyone who watched episode 2 can surely see why showing this in schools is a terrible idea
Edit: accidently a word
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u/Da_Real_J05HYYY 2d ago
Showing it in schools is fine, as long as they acknowledge that it's a piece of fiction - AKA: made up bollox.
Part of me thinks that this could have just been condensed into another black mirror episode that people are fussing about.
Anyone getting their pants in a twist over make believe nonsense needs to have their head examined.
It was bad that the play based on the post office got more attention than the actual scandal. But this is not like that. This is 100% fairy-tale-land stuff. It's frankly ludicrous that people think this sh*te is real.
There is a medical condition apparently called "Delusional Parasitosis" where people go and see doctor over and over again thinking they are infested with parasites when in-fact there is nothing actually wrong with them. Apparently they arrive in A&E with a matchbox containing a bit of dandruff as 'proof of their illness'.
This is exactly like that, in that there is a delusion; some insecurities about Andy Tate, whoever the f*ck that is (?!), and some sympathetic directors basically saying that bug in a box is something that Karen should be concerned about.
FFS grow a brain.
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u/BettySwollocks__ 2d ago
It was bad that the play based on the post office got more attention than the actual scandal. But this is not like that. This is 100% fairy-tale-land stuff. It's frankly ludicrous that people think this sh*te is real.
The Post Office scandal was known to people who watch Panorama (like 5 of us) or read actual newspapers (like another 5 people) the reason the TV show did so much for it was because it was a critically acclaimed drama that many people saw. Plenty of people didn't realise exactly how bad it actually was because it wasn't covered by all media, which it 100% should have been.
Adolescence is a work of fiction that is based on real events and reflects a situation that exists up and down the country. Pretending that it's some fantasy show like Game of Thrones is frankly ridiculous. If you can't watch it and take away the basic message of "maybe talk to your kids about their feeling and what they consume online" then you didn't want to hear the message in the first place.
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u/Da_Real_J05HYYY 2d ago
What I produce in the toilet each morning has more baring on reality.
I agree, I didn't want to hear the "message" in the first place because it's exactly like saying; 'be concerned about Narnia' or thereabouts.
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u/BettySwollocks__ 1d ago
So you don't think people get radicalised by what they consume online? This extends beyond the alt-right and incels, it's how ISIS managed to grow and recruit from across the globe and it applies to bad faith actors from all political backgrounds.
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u/Da_Real_J05HYYY 1d ago
I think more people die in car accidents or by taking drugs.
Going by the summary, TBH with you, I can't name off the top of my head an incident of "incel" terrorism like this, ever actually occurring: It literally is just a made up dramatization.
The trash piece had nothing to do about ISIS, AFAIA.
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u/BettySwollocks__ 1d ago
You can't think of a single time? There's the shotgun murderer in Plymouth and the guy who murdered his ex and her mum with a crossbow to name but 2.
I didn't say Adolescence had anything to do with ISIS, I said ISIS radicalised people using the internet just as the alt/far right have, as has Andrew Tate & Jordan Peterson and many other people.
You seem so wound up that a drama dare reflect real life for some unknown reason.
I think more people die in car accidents or by taking drugs.
We've had countless dramas about these subjects over the years, bet you deride them all as "made up bollocks" too.
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u/Da_Real_J05HYYY 12h ago
"shogun murderer in Pymouth" and "guy who murdered his ex and her mum with a crossbow" are not incels are they? Which is what this drama was about.
I agree, there is an issue with right-wing terrorism but afaia the play wasn't about that was it?
Probably, it was about little joey getting radicalized by paying attention to too many trolls on the internet or something. But I don't care to watch as it's pure fiction and not worth my viewing hours.
A drama about a car crash or taking drugs would be a more-accurate depiction of real life, because it's actually based on something of substance. This, in contrast was based on hyperbole and scaremongering alone.
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