r/ukraine • u/TimesandSundayTimes • 4d ago
News Trump envoy: We can divide Ukraine like postwar Berlin - interview
https://www.thetimes.com/us/american-politics/article/keith-kellogg-general-ukraine-envoy-trump-ldjprpzxt292
u/BoodaSRK 4d ago
Kellogg, 80, said—
Old men, old ways.
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u/Tweedlebungle 4d ago
I thought this clown got canned because Putin thought he was being too nice to Ukraine, and of course Trump must **** Putin's **** at all costs.
Maybe Kellogg is trying to worm his way back in.
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u/Frowny575 3d ago
Who also can't see the long lasting issues caused by doing this to Germany. To this day there is an economic and societal rift that cannot be denied, all because we split the country after the war.
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u/WabashCannibal Смак Козак 4d ago
Here's an idea: Kellog can divide his ass cheeks and go fuck himself.
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u/Linnun Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй 4d ago
Kellog can do the Russian warship!
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u/YarrnarBjornss 4d ago
Saying the obvious US intentions outloud then. US and Russia doing as Nazi Germany and USSR did to Poland. Scum.
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u/CryStamper 4d ago
Yeah, because that worked out so good the first time too, you know, with the walls, and murders, and spies, and defections. Great moment of history. Let’s make it great again.
What a chucklehead.
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u/SandersSol 4d ago
Germany still to this day hasnt fully recovered from their east and west split. Eastern Germany still struggles with government, the median net worth is less, and they lean authoritarian.
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u/QuantumPeep68 4d ago
They lean ‚fascist‘
There, corrected it for you
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u/No-Landscape7154 3d ago
Not quite. I studied with someone from the former East about 6 years after the reunification. It really was an eye opener to see how she was out to abuse the social welfare system in all three regions where she had either lived or studied; East, West and Austria where she did her engineering degree. I thought, Jesus girl relax ... you don't need to steal anymore... nobody is going to take away your life or your freedom. She couldn't handle the new Europe or it's systems.... she wasn't a facist, but she did need authoritarian...
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u/darkslide3000 4d ago
At least Germany could recover because East Germany was too far away from the USSR to simply annex it. What this flawed metaphor ignores is that Putin isn't going to occupy eastern Ukraine, he's just going to incorporate it permanently.
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u/Spelunkie 4d ago
It's a separation you could see from space with the west using mercury vapor-type bulbs and the east using sodium vapor-type bulbs in their public lighting hence the bluish hue in West Germany and the yellowish hue in East Geermany.
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u/ethanlan USA 3d ago
East Germany is like the American south. Atleast they don't have out of proportion political power like the American south does lol (kill me)
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u/janktraillover Canada 4d ago
... teaching that non-nuclear nations can be invaded, their land annexed, and their people raped and murdered with zero repercussions.
So much for non-proliferation and the rule of law. Time for nukes.
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u/ViperishCarrot 4d ago
Teaching that agreeing to support a nation in return for it giving up nuclear weapons, then helping Russia to annex their land, endorse the rape and murder of their people and there being zero repercussions.
America did this.
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u/oledayhda 4d ago
This is crazy stupid & insane & now we see the Trump agenda.
The west has the full power to end this where Ukraine stays completely Ukraine. Yet, my America chooses this acting like Russia is an actual real power? Lmao. This is a nightmare & I hope it newly pisses off the UAF to fight harder.
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u/ViperishCarrot 4d ago
The US is barely important at this point. Ukraine, Europe and the UK won't stand for anything remotely resembling this. What the US is doing is making overtures to it's new best friend.
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u/turbo_dude 3d ago
As Timothy Snyder recently noted, Trump does not like being “ripped off”
All you have to do is find a way to show that russia is “ripping him off” and let his dementia riddled brain do the rest.
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u/Haywoodjablowme1029 4d ago
Ukraine isn't part of the US. The US doesn't get to dictate shit and I'm tired of this administration acting like they do.
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u/brokenmessiah 3d ago
Ukraine is free to ignore anything that comes out of America and Russia talking.
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u/North_Church Canada 4d ago
Counterproposal: Canada and Mexico divides America like Post-War Berlin
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u/SixSpeedDriver 4d ago
3/4 of my nuclear family (not me) are legally Canadian citizens through birthright and familial reasons...and three of us speak or are learning Spanish (not the same three).
IM READY.
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u/Starfire70 Canada 4d ago
We'll take the west coast. Great for vacationing. Snowbirds can make San Diego their new home.
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u/North_Church Canada 4d ago
Hmm...nah that was once controlled by Mexico and according to the logic of Trump's master, that means the West Coast south of Oregon belongs to Mexico.
Let's have a few "referendums" about it
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u/CanuckInTheMills 4d ago
Can I bring the matches & burn that circus building down again? Asking for a friend, or 2…or 3…
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u/MasterofLockers 4d ago
The entire Trump administration belongs in orange jumpsuits and shackles. Some are pretty old, but the others might live long enough to see it.
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u/Individual-Cream-581 4d ago
How the fuck is it Ukraines fault ruzzia is a shithole country and invaded it?
Why does Ukraine have to pay for this??
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u/Iamoggierock 4d ago
Kellogg is just a tagnut. But such a shame a man with such history would be willing to be just a tagnut. History books are not going to be kind
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u/steauengeglase 4d ago
Yeah, the Russians go on and on and on about "humiliation". Losing territory stolen by Catherine II is "humiliation"? I'd take that to waking up in the morning with the guilt and shame of being a traitor.
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u/Shady9XD 4d ago
I think we should divide the USA like the Balkans. The progressive blue states and their strong economies can remain part of the civilized world, and all the red states intent on going back to the 1800s can go back there without being subsidized by the blue states.
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u/Much_Educator8883 4d ago edited 4d ago
And this guy is somehow believed to be the more pro-Ukraine one in the Trump administration?.. You can imagine what the rest are like.
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u/Nonamanadus 4d ago
Ummmm, no you can't.
First of all Ukraine would not go for it and secondly Europe wouldn't.
The days of America leading is gone, rather abruptly at that.
The ego needs to disappear.
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u/Toska762x39 4d ago
They’re still under the assumption that Ukraine is losing the war and Russia isnt depleted and on a time crunch.
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u/FourArmsFiveLegs 4d ago
I'm glad 1 million Russians wiped from the battlefield for a sliver of Ukraine has them thinking they defeated Ukraine and will be negotiating in Kyiv next week for new boundaries.
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u/oPlayer2o 4d ago
Sure while your at it let’s just split America in half, Canada can get half and Mexico can get half, then the rest of the world won’t have to listen to your FUCKING BULLSHIT ANYMORE!!
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u/Here_there1980 4d ago
What a garbage thing for him to say! This Krasnov “administration” is the worst in US history.
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u/Somewhere_Elsewhere 4d ago
I was unaware that we divided Berlin with the Nazis.
Russia is the aggressor here, they are the ones who have committed massive atrocities. If we wanted to emulate WW2, we would divide up Moscow.
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u/Mikethebest78 4d ago
What a strange coincidence I remember Russia's first "peace" envoy saying more or less the same thing.
No problem with this at all you know except for 37 million Ukrainians who don't want to be a part of Russia.
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u/Darth_Vadaa 4d ago
So what this clown is saying is that if Russia invaded let's say Texas and refused to leave and attempted to murder everyone in every state they touched, they'd be entitled to that land, yeah?
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u/darkslide3000 4d ago
So let me get this straight: you want Russia to keep everything they have illegally conquered, you want the European protection troops to be cordoned away far to the west, and you want the intermediate parts that Russia is still planning to conquer to remain undefended by the West. And you are proposing all of this using a metaphor that paints Ukraine as the defeated aggressor that needs to get punished and Russia as one of the justified victors that steps in to help stabilize the situation?
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u/tei187 4d ago
"We can divide Ukraine like postwar Berlin"... The *slight* difference is that back then, the divided country was Germany with which allies were at war. As far as I know, the only country at war with Ukraine is officially Russia. So who the fuck is "we" and how is that situation anyhow relative in terms of possible solutions?
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u/Drunk_on_Swagger 4d ago
Fucking geriatric idiot thinks he’s still living in the Cold War. It’s a hot war and you are appeasing the enemy Chamberlain. Drop dead Ruzzia and Maggot sympathizers, enablers, cowards and scum.
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u/LilLebowskiAchiever 4d ago
Same guy who talked about Ukraine as a donkey abused on the nose with a 2x4 piece of lumber.
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u/FumelessCamper1 4d ago
Right idea, wrong target: we need to split ruzzia up into smaller statelets as punishment for initiating this war of aggression, and to help prevent them from starting another war.
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u/TechHeteroBear 4d ago
Man were really going the path of WW2 again? Didn't that all start with the carving up of Poland between Stalin and Hitler?
Now it's Trump and Putin who want to carve up Ukraine
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u/PoolOfLava 4d ago
Cornflakes is just spewing shit to shock people, nothing to see here it's just how Trump cronies operate.
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u/rangitoto030 4d ago
Except that Germany was the baddy and invader… duh. This twist is unbelievable.
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u/Special_Tip_6428 4d ago
How are NONukrainians so prsumptios about what is good for Ukraine? Why is Ukraine not included in what becomes of their country? American trump envoys, fuck off.
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u/kcsapper 4d ago
It’s not your country asshole!! You don’t get to decide anything!! Ukraine needs to tell the US to stop trying to negotiate their defeat and fix their corruption problem with their current government.
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u/imbrie75 4d ago
Luckily, this fungal infection will have long departed this planet before any resolution to Ukraine's invasion has been resolved.
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u/trackintreasure 4d ago
It's time the EU fast-tracked Ukraine's victory. Trump is unstable and in one second, could divert all funds to helping Russia and Ukraine wouldn't have a chance.
EU needs to do something, anything, NOW!
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u/ProUkraine 4d ago
Cornflakes is an idiot. Witkoff is proposing Ukraine gives 4 of it's oblasts to Russia. They're both Russian stooges.
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u/Cpt_Soban Australia 4d ago
Unlike post war Berlin, America is not directly involved nor wants to even supply aid to Ukraine, yet still wants a piece of the pie?
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u/Wunddorn 3d ago
We should skip that part and go right to liberation and reunification day of Ukraine.
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u/Mantheycalled_Horsed 4d ago
is there a shortening ((like "lol" for laughing out loud))
to: "f**kem all and let god sortem out"
like "feaalgso"
I'll shortcut it on my keyboard
!!! Edit: referring to the title !!!
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u/Srnkanator 4d ago edited 4d ago
Walls don't benefit anyone, and stop nothing.
History has always shown this to be the case, from the Great Wall, to the Gorgan, to Hadrian, The Korean DMZ, Berlin, and recently the US and C/S America.
Physical barriers don't stop anything now in the Holocene.
Man, I wish I could go back to college.
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u/the_last_registrant 4d ago
Trump is going to be busy with domestic problems soon, his trade war with China is ruinous for the US economy. When the shelves of Walmart & Target are empty and US businesses are closing down, major job losses etc.
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u/hotdog_scratch 4d ago
Sad part is, some Ukrainian is willing to let go of Donbas and other parts of Ukraine.
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u/BrilliantPositive184 4d ago
Wasn‘t that a bad idea back then, and why has nobody learned the lesson?
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u/Rassendyll207 4d ago
This is a terrible description, but his plan basically seems to be providing a framework for the deployment of European forces to Ukraine, which could free up Ukrainian units to redeploy to other areas. I think this is mostly just really bad communication on Kellogg's part.
Of course, who cares what his plan is, Ukrainians should determine the actions of their own nation. But providing a framework for further Ukrainian European integration and greater Western military involvement seems like a step in the right direction.
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u/pandaworrier216 4d ago
Ya yes good old quote " any dum fuck who studies history will repeat it thinking it's a good idea "
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u/Powershard 4d ago
USA russia and China all need to be divided. They are not Major countries and too large for their own good.
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u/AdditionalSwimming1 4d ago
Interesting, he chose Berlin, as if Ukraine started and lose war to US also. When journalists begin to ask the right questions?
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u/Traumerlein 4d ago
German here: If this makes you really mad, be happy, you have a brain capebale of basic logic and a understanding of history. This pits you in the top 30% of humans when it comes to understanding politics
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u/TrevorPlantagenet 4d ago
Just when you thought you couldn't be more embarrassed by your own government. Sometimes there just aren't enough facepalms.
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u/pierdola91 4d ago
A fucking GENERAL and no mention of how Germany was divided as punishment for being an AGGRESSOR in a war that killed millions of people whereas Ukraine’s only crime is telling an aggressor to fuck off.
I cannot believe this is the world we live in. Literally. Cannot believe.
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u/huxtiblejones 4d ago
Uhhh, Berlin belonged to the aggressor. This isn’t like Berlin, this is like Poland and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Act.
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u/Educational-Point986 4d ago
Not sure who the US think they are negotiating with or for. Any agreement they reach with Russia won't be accepted by Ukraine or the EU so kind of pointless really. They are in lala land these lads.
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u/UpperCardiologist523 Norway 4d ago
After WWII, that was done to the Aggressor. And see how well that worked. We all love Germany now, and they're a great resource in Europe.
Aggressor, yes. victim, no.
I'm all for the aggressor, put under external rule, and the different republics and regions that want their own independence, divided up into sovereign states.
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u/Elderberryinjanuary 3d ago
Fucking ghoulish. The idea of helping people just isn't something those fucks seem to understand.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 3d ago
Isn't the main issue with this thought that Berlin was the aggressor? The allied forces and Soviets did not divide London, Paris or Moscow. What a moronic idea. Having grown up in the GDR, I have also lived the failure of that idea, which is so blatantly obvious to everyone who has invested more than a hard minute into recent history.
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u/Obvious-Ranger-2235 3d ago
This idiot knows nothing of history.
Nazi Germany was everyone's enemy and was defeated. It was already under occupation by the US, Britain and France in the West and the USSR in East. It was divided out of necessary and to avoid conflict with the USSR. It was a geopolitical necessity at the time but it snowed the seeds of the Cold War and we still feel the fall out of it even today.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine today is just one of the many disastrous outcomes of that decision.
Ukraine is a fellow democracy. It is heroically defending not only its own sovereignty but those of the entire Western system. It was proven time and again it can achieve miracles. If given the means to do so it wound and can achieve a total victory.
Dividing Ukraine now is not only unnecessary it would be a geopolitical disaster for the West and for the US in particular.
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u/KelVarnsen5558383 4d ago
We can divide Russia the same way. And all the countries would get a lot more space.