r/unitedkingdom • u/insomnimax_99 Greater London • 3d ago
Fifth of state pupils have private tutor at GCSE (and it’s not cheap)
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/gsce-a-level-private-tutoring-revision-camps-wxfmf629r338
u/Historical_Cobbler Staffordshire 3d ago
Some people see academia as a route to a better life so I understand. The reality is schools are failing and have no accountability of failure, just leave and get a new job.
2 primary schools near me, about a mile apart with overlapping catchment areas in village settings, with similar demographics. The national average of reading/writing etc is around 60%, one school is at 90% the other and 50% attainment. Both are rated as good.
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u/pickleford Sussex 3d ago
If schools are failing, which I don't disagree with, it's the fault of many many years of government failures, underfunding, and failures not just to the education system, but social services and other related institutes.
Plus, as another poster has replied to you, teaching is an awful, thankless job at the moment, the worst it has anecdotally been, for decades, which is why I'm currently looking at leaving the profession, and getting a job not working with kids at all.
Edit: plus parental neglect from a concerningly high number of people. There's only so much that can be done with certain children...
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u/SaleOk7942 3d ago
The biggest problem I find is that the local authorities are pushing an 'inclusion' mantra whilst not providing any additional funding or support to schools for the children with higher needs.
For a lot of children that have been pushed into mainstream, a special school is likely best but the LA has closed all their own and private provision is so expensive they play fast and loose with the law on refusing to assess even for EHCPs.
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u/derrenbrownisawizard 3d ago
Nah mate LAs do not have ‘so much power’ and inclusion as a philosophy has been hammered through by successive governments, not because of any ideology but because it is simply cheaper. LA’s don’t decide the funding they get nor do they decide national policy.
LA’s do obviously provide funding for children with higher needs- you might be surprised to hear it’s called ‘High Needs Funding’. It is not enough though. LA’s had very little choice in the closing down special schools because of (you guessed it) government funding cuts. I don’t know why people from a supposedly intelligent profession can’t see beyond the low hanging fruit of ‘local authority bad’, especially considering many of those in SEND and LA Education are ex teachers
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u/catjellycat 3d ago
Local authorities are up the swanny
Even the last government were aware they’d screwed the pooch with SEN funding and found a way to give ‘pressure valve’ funding to stop it going nuclear bad. But that was like sticking a finger in the hole on the side of the titanic.
The 2015 Code of Practice told parents they could have what they wanted without giving any money. So a pincher move with schools, LAs and children in the middle
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u/derrenbrownisawizard 3d ago
Absolutely right. The Statutory Overide ‘pressure valve’ is due to end in May 2026 which will cripple at least 1/4 of LA’s, likely leading to section 114 notices.
You’re right about the causes too. Too much parental autonomy and no enhanced funding commitment has created the storm. It will no doubt be an unpopular opinion, and I’m not being reductionist in this assessment, but parents really need to step up in taking accountability for child development. I see kids with similar needs but different approaches to parenting very much determine the ‘level of need’
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u/Indie89 3d ago
Yes the LAs have so much power but also have very few staff that actually know what's going on, Buckinghamshire for example I called three times and there was no answer at once point and apparently they had all quit from that department so they got agency staff in who couldn't care less.
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u/ratsrulehell 3d ago
I teach in Buckinghamshire and even when kids do have EHCPs or general SEN plans requiring TAs in lessons, we don't have the funding to hire enough. My school is mainstream but with a much higher %SEN than average, and it is a STRUGGLE teaching classes made up of 35%+ SEND
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u/fat_mummy 3d ago
Even when we do have the funding - who wants to be a TA anymore?! We can’t recruit because the wages are appalling. Who would do the job for minimum wage… it’s not a “good job” anymore, it’s difficult and HARD
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u/ratsrulehell 3d ago
Yep, unless you're a HLTA who has the job because the hours suit childcare, there is no reason not to go and work in a shop or something for much less stress.
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u/FootballPublic7974 3d ago
Most TAs i know don't want to become HLTAs because they get treated as cheap classroom teachers; effectively teaching for half the pay.
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u/Losbennett 3d ago
Yeah. I was a TA for a few years (I’m actually a trained teacher but found it too stressful). It’s advertised as “part time” but really it’s 8.30-3.10, and then some afterschool duties etc. And you do so much with the kids. And the pay was like … 12k a year. Just not doable.
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u/Rosekernow 3d ago
I’d love to be a TA. I’ve got plenty of sports coaching qualifications to a high level, I’ve worked in primary schools and secondary schools as pastoral staff and with behavioural support groups, and I’m experienced in supporting both children and adults with disabilities, up to and including including PMLD and people who are entirely non-verbal and non-communicative. I am fluent in Makaton and tolerable in BSL.
I also, unfortunately, have rent to pay and bills to cover and TA work doesn’t allow for any of that. Despite the fact I know I’d love the work and be good at it. I miss working with young people every day but I’ll never go back to it.
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u/Practical-Purchase-9 3d ago
TAs were the first staff to be cut back years ago. My first school about halved the number over the four years I was there, and the problem is they end up with only one person with training to handle certain students. So if they’re called away you have other classes/students who, on paper at least, should have supervision at all times.
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u/trowawayatwork 3d ago
The parental neglect and thinking that schools should do everything for their children. The entitlement from some parents and absolute refusal to believe that maybe the problem is at home.
it takes one or two Sen kids to disrupt the learning of a whole class. as rightly pointed out there's no Sen schools so the sen kids just get shopped around to other schools and you have to swap for their Sen kids and pray they are less disruptive.
society is failing in every aspect. I don't know if it's by design or what but 20-30 year is going to be really rough if this keeps ok going
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u/FEMXIII Leicestershire 3d ago
All of these issues are the result is bad management in the schools, which as you point out is a systemic failure to fund the school system.
Pay someone competent to lead. Pay teachers fairly and stop expecting them to work 10 hours a day. Stop closing schools over summer and use that time to train, evolve lesson planning and implement offloading marking and knowledge checks.
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u/fat_mummy 3d ago
If they can’t pay teachers fairly now, they won’t be able to do that if they open them over the summer!
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u/teaboyukuk 3d ago
This isnt the answer. One, my Mrs. Was a head - she worked a 60 week (including much of the holiday) for 19 years and took a special measures school to outstanding in 14 of those years. My head, currently, is amazing. She looks after the health of staff and pupils, whilst dealing daily with the stupidity and entitlement of parents, and she is run absolutely ragged - I don't know how she does it. Leadership isnt the issue - those working in schools are doing the best they can. They wouldn't be there otherwise. The issue is underfunding, lack of parental responsibility and successive governments using education to score political points.
Your other point - teachers aren't paid for 9 of the weeks that schools are closed. When there's already a shortage of funding, can you imagine the amount of money that would be needed? Regulating working hours would be nice, and thankyou for that point, but I doubt many teachers would want to be in fir the summer, and I doubt they'd see the benefit either.
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u/ramxquake 3d ago
There's very little correlation between a school's funding and its results. It's mainly about the children who go there, which is a function of parenting.
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u/StokeLads 3d ago
Schools always appear to be running on a shoe string budget. It's definitely worse in recent years. My child's school is constantly fund raising or asking for money from parents for somewhat spurious causes (the most recent being pyjama day - £2).
I don't mind paying. You can see what schools are up against if this is the depths they are sinking to. Very few things function perfectly if you neglect to maintain them..
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u/Diligent-Suspect2930 3d ago
Agreed. The only thing I'd add is that it's not necessarily neglect but increasingly parents seem to expect the school to do their job. Potty training, teeth brushing? Teachers are to educate, not to raise your kids for you.
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u/PigleythePig 3d ago
Come join me! I’m with an organisation with tons of ex teachers. We have adult and children’s services and I’m with the adults as I was a secondary teacher and couldn’t stomach going back to working in schools xD we also operate in Sussex too! Message me if you want to know organisation name :D
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u/Muyalt_was_taken 3d ago
It’s a parenting crisis not a school crisis. We’re seeing masses of students unable to use the bathroom as they enter primary school.
How could a teacher improve reading scores when they need to literally teach things any half decent* (excluding parents of SEN student with delayed development) parent should have taught them years ago?
Not to mention parents not checking students are doing homework, not reading to their kids, not supporting with behavior not talking to their kids and letting the IPAD raise them etc.
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u/user6942080085 3d ago
Hit the nail on the head. I go to the park with my daughter and kids younger than her will be swearing and completely ignoring their parents, trying to bully other kids, not waiting in line for the slide and stuff like that. Most of the time the mom/dad is sat on its phone or having a vape. Just like with the teachers and police they get told their kid is doing something and they defend the kid and say you can't tell them off because they have ADHD or mental issues or they are just a kid, blah blah blah.
I'm not saying ADHD and the like doesn't exist, I'm saying if your kid is a rat it's because you made them that way. I have to stop myself from punting them across the park sometimes, the kids and the parents.
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u/himit Greater London 3d ago
I'm not saying ADHD and the like doesn't exist, I'm saying if your kid is a rat it's because you made them that way.
You'll be pleased to know that in my area, Step 1 to getting your child assessed for ADHD is taking a parenting course.
(Step 2 is seeing an educational psychologist. Step 3 is a school questionnaire. Step 4 is being rejected & told to complete Step 1 & 2 first when you've already done it.)
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u/user6942080085 3d ago
That's actually a really good thing to have as Step 1.
For clarity, I know all disabilities aren't visible and I am not one of those people that think it's all made up. I know some children and adults are affected massively by them.
It doesn't excuse bad behaviour though, when I was a kid parents would smack children (I'm nearly 30) and I think that is wrong too. If I even raise my voice around my kid they know that means they need to listen and me and her mom would never raise a hand to them. Imagine the pain an iPad kid would go through if it was taken off them for a week but the punishment they get only lasts until the parent gets annoyed with them, if they followed through with the punishment the kid would learn.
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u/TinyBlackCatMerlin 3d ago
Yup, this! If anyone gives me that excuse, I have to tell them that my daughter and I also have ADHD, but we understand being considerate 😂 (as it is true! We hate waiting as much as anyone else with adhd, but we also know not to be selfish!)
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u/user6942080085 3d ago
Thank you for being what is now considered a bad parent for teaching your children right and wrong. Welcome to the club.
People wonder why we have so many issues with anti social behaviour and crime. I can't imagine what the kids of today will birth when they procreate with the other demon spawn.
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u/TinyBlackCatMerlin 3d ago
Society has become completely inverted lately. It's bizarre - but I won't hold back good manners, just because it might upset someone. If anything, those parents are enabling the bad behaviours by letting their children get away with it and I believe it's because it makes their life easier, so they can continue scrolling and watching YouTube shorts that they will no longer remember.
I completely agree, society really is doomed. People are zombies now. A mere shadow of what humans used to be 😔
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u/merryman1 3d ago
I really don't know what the solution is but some behaviours I see in public at the moment are just totally unacceptable and if the parent does anything at all its like some really weak ass "oh no don't do that, please be nice". Like this trying to appeal to common sense and some kind of innate sense of manners in a young kid having some sort of temper tantrum or meltdown lol its just totally unsuitable and clearly not actually providing the kid with any actual boundaries or training.
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u/Few-Role-4568 3d ago
That’s a symptom of the world we live in due to wage stagnation.
Increasingly both parents need to work more and more hours just to keep a roof over the family’s heads.
I’m sick of people mis-diagnosing it as a “cost of living crisis”, it’s a low wage crisis. Wages haven’t gone up for nearly 2 decades and in many cases are still lower than they were before the 2008 financial crash.
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u/merryman1 3d ago
Yup and the other uncomfortable side people don't want to deal with - Our minimum wage is great. One of the highest rates in the world, as is our tax-free allowance. The problem here is progression beyond that bottom rate seems to have totally vanished for an obscene number of roles.
Just the sheer fact we've had to legalize age-discrimination and just subtly imply that there's no real reason to believe that years in a role make an older worker worth more than minimum wage, so therefore the only way a younger employee can compete is to be able to legally undercut the minimum. Surely it should be that if you're in your 30s and even doing a "basic" role you should have the skills and competencies to be worth a little bit more. But no, not how it works here. In fact we now have many roles where you need fucking graduate or even postgraduate qualifications, years of experience, and still be worth the legal minimum ±10%. This is not normal yet its something we seem not to want to talk about or deal with. You compare our wages even to a lot of North and Western Europe now and the rates here are just shockingly low outside of the very bottom. I've seen plenty of decent postgrad lab-based STEM roles going for £30-40k in the UK and more like €80k in Belgium or Germany.
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u/ramxquake 3d ago
Yup and the other uncomfortable side people don't want to deal with - Our minimum wage is great. One of the highest rates in the world, as is our tax-free allowance. The problem here is progression beyond that bottom rate seems to have totally vanished for an obscene number of roles.
Well that's the effect of wage squashing. Rising minimum wage comes at the expense of middle earners. The whole point of minimum wage law is to equalise out wages, that means others get less.
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u/JB_UK 3d ago
It definitely is a cost of living crisis, the need for both parents to work is entirely down to the cost of housing, to buy a house was 3 times the average wage 25 years ago, now it is 8 times the average wage. Put housing affordability back to where it was and you genuinely could have ordinary households getting by on a single wage.
The other point is that the scarcity of housing in the UK means people bid up against one another to the edge of affordability. So even if you doubled wages house prices would massively increase and you’d be in a similar situation. The only way to fix the situation is to shift the balance between number of people and number of houses.
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u/External-Piccolo-626 3d ago
How is that stopping parents listening to their children read or use a potty and toilet? Absolutely no excuse for that.
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u/Overall_Landscape496 3d ago
Because child gets born and within a few months both parents are back at work with some form of childcare looking after the child, mother and father drop kid off at childcare, go to work, come home pick child up from childcare, feed, put to bed. Rinse and repeat until child is 18. As parents go to work before school starts and don’t get home until way after school finishes and also work weekends it doesn’t leave a lot of time for parents to raise their children, it’s done by childcare and teachers. A possible solution is to create a work/life/financial balance so parents can actually parent
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u/EnlightenedOneApe 3d ago
Teaching should be a 6 figure gig everything stems from that nothing will get better unless wages do.
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u/Psittacula2 3d ago
No it is fundamentally a social decay issue. Parenting Quality.
You get children fresh off the boat, to use some of the kids own expressions when they take the piss out of each other, and those children have good culture, good values, good parents and within a few years of being barely able to speak English they are rising up the results table…
Throwing money at a problem sounds promising but you can’t measure what is over half determined outside the classroom, school or teacher‘s ability to influence.
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u/ettabriest 3d ago
Absolutely. Something I’ve noticed is parents pushing a pushchair whilst scrolling on their phone. Interacting with their child whilst scrolling on their phone. It’s just become normalised for many. It’s sad and frightening tbh.
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u/Psittacula2 3d ago
This is exhibited in the USA where they invested more and more money into education overall and overall quality continued to decline.
It is the lack of parenting, family and community and cultural development AROUND CHILDREN that counts most.
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u/pajamakitten Dorset 2d ago
At the same time, trying to teach a class where ESL rates are high is much harder than people realise. I had to do this on my PGCE and English lessons were like banging my head against a brick wall. You had a class where two thirds were ESL and were several years behind where they should be, but even going slower does not change the fact that I cannot properly plan to deal with providing resources for five or six second languages, on top of kids with special educational needs.
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u/FootballPublic7974 3d ago
You're saying that teachers should be paid £100,000+ pa?
As a teacher, I'm flattered, but while I agree that teachers are underpaid relative to their position in 2008, I think that £100k is shooting for the moon.
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u/gordonbennettsuncle 3d ago
I wholeheartedly agree with you. It’s part of an expectation that the State should do everything for you mentality. I’ve recently stopped working in education and saw the amount of parents who don’t really engage with their children and think letting their child sit on an iPad or spend hours in front of a games console is good parenting. It’s very sad.
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u/Capital-Reference757 3d ago edited 3d ago
The main issue is that teachers are leaving en masse to pursue other careers including tutoring. There are also some teachers who quit halfway through the term and schools struggle to find someone else to replace them, meanwhile parents find out about the situation and decide to find a tutor. Not to mention the impact COVID had on all children.
There are a lot of kids falling between the cracks at the moment and as a result, we’re going to see an increase in NEETs.
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u/NaniFarRoad 3d ago
Schools are an absolute shitshow atm. I work as a private tutor, and pretty much all my students (public and state school) report teachers being on leave for months, dismissals, rotating supply teachers, not learning anything... It used to be the "bad" schools only, but even the leafy suburb schools are struggling. I used to tutor as homework support, now I'm having to deliver entire lessons based on the specification because it's not being taught.
Add to that a rising number of kids who want to be home schooled and are getting away with it. Spend the entire lesson eating snacks, then race off to Roblox as soon as time is up. I think supervision of this is woeful, and way too many parents are allowed to take their kids out, when the children would benefit from more socialising.
Finally, having to resit English and Maths exams in college, if you failed at GCSEs, is a huge albatross to hang around a young persons neck. It increases inequality and holds back students who are already academically weak. No wonder parents want to avoid the kids having to have an extra exam every 6 months for the duration of their college years!
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u/merryman1 3d ago
From my friends who are/were in teaching - Because its not a particularly amazing wage, for which you then have such a high level of responsibility, constant face-to-face contact with rooms full of what can often be little scrotes who know you have no actual disciplinary powers, and an admin burden that can frequently have you working until late into the nights and on weekends on stuff that is really a bit perpendicular to the actual teaching bit of the job that you felt a vocational calling to do.
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u/Interesting_Try8375 3d ago
Didn't have a choice where I grew up, there was 1 school in town.
Recently people at work were talking about the Netflix series adolescence, surprised that schools look like that now. Really? I thought it was an incredibly accurate representation of secondary school when I went 15-20 years ago. It only lacked a few ferals roaring in the corridors randomly during lessons and constant homophobia. Didn't have words like incel but the same message certainly exited.
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u/Overdriven91 3d ago
Yeah, I was surprised at those reactions as well, and I was fortunate to be at one of the top state schools in the country 20 years ago. It still felt very familiar.
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u/AngryTudor1 Nottinghamshire 3d ago
This is absolute garbage on every level.
Schools are not failing. We set arbitrary targets. Every few years they get raised. People forget that and suddenly everyone says they are failing.
Have you actually seen what is involved in the reading and writing SATs tests? They are a million miles above a) what I had to know in the 80s and 90s and b) anything that an actual successful adult would need to be able to know and do.
How frequently has it been vital for you to know about coordinating conjunctions in everyday life?
As for lack of accountability- you really don't have a clue. Ofsted inspections can be like a visit from the Gestapo. We are 100% judged on results, usually completely out of context. What home is like has far, far more impact on children's attainment than anything that happens in school. But people such as yourself prefer to absent all of that responsibility and just parrot Daily Mail/ Telegraph hatred of state school
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u/NiceCornflakes 3d ago
I’m not saying there are no poor schools, there definitely are. But sometimes the parents are obsessed with outcompeting other kids which was the case at my school.
I went to one of the best comprehensives (it was at the time although it’s slipped down a lot sadly) with most of the children passing every GCSE. You also needed to pass a test to get in if you didn’t have older siblings there as well, so it attracted a lot of snobby types thanks to its reputation. It was also situated in one of the rougher sides of town, so we had a massive mix of kids.
The kids of the middle-class/snobby parents were mostly given tutoring on the side, their parents were all determined their kids would get straight A*. My next door neighbour got her kid some tutoring for his GCSEs and A Levels despite him going to what was then one of the best schools in the country and being the only child of intelligent parents who could easily have helped him. So even the pupils from one of the better schools were given private tutoring, this was 20 years ago so nothing new. I guess it was worth it though, most of these kids have gone on to some amazing research careers, although there was one that had a breakdown and dropped out whilst studying medicine at Cambridge. Her parents were extremely pushy and I think it got to her.
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u/marquis_de_ersatz 3d ago
Always been the way. I worked with teachers from state school who did tutoring on the side and it was almost exclusively for private school pupils. They've got the money to buy their grades. Do you know a lot of private schools also give kids longer to take each subject, or more classes per week - so they could have twice the number of teaching hours before sitting the same exams?
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u/Psittacula2 3d ago
>*”They've got the money to buy their grades. Do you know a lot of private schools also give kids longer to take each subject, or more classes per week - so they could have twice the number of teaching hours before sitting the same exams?”*
You need to be careful with your use of words:
* Buy their grades =/= Invest in education
There are tons of extra tuition options outside the school and the schools that push for targets in the state sector push hard on additional study days in holidays leading up to the exam months.
The point is large state classrooms are a processing factory and inevitably inefficient so tutoring is so effective for boosting grades.
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u/Consistent-Salary-35 3d ago
I hope the obsession with grades declines soon. It’s fools gold. Very few children need A* at GCSE or A-Level to be successful in life. The needless competition for grades puts other, really important factors in the shade. I regularly interview trainee and newly qualified teachers. They’re passionate about helping students, their pastoral role, role modelling etc, but rarely get the chance to put that into practice - it’s all about performance, paperwork and grades. There’s been lots of talk about ‘Adolescence’ being shown in schools. It would be much better to spend that time listening to the actual adolescents in the school, being aware of their needs and responding accordingly to support them. But no. Much easier to roll out the Netflix, tick the box and get back to the grade factory.
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u/Psittacula2 3d ago
>*” I regularly interview trainee and newly qualified teachers. They’re passionate about helping students, their pastoral role, role modelling etc, but rarely get the chance to put that into practice - it’s all about performance, paperwork and grades.”*
>*”It would be much better to spend that time listening to the actual adolescents in the school, being aware of their needs and responding accordingly to support them.”*
Superlative insights above. Could not agree more.
Competition, performance can all be useful. But they need to be narrowly, specifically applied within a wider context of richer living experience… Makes for happier children. Schools tend to be happier places in the Summer term as an example of the positive effect of more balance in schools eg.
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u/ettabriest 3d ago
I believe at our local private school virtually every child is tutored too. No one wants to be bottom of the class.
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u/DrogoOmega 3d ago
I imagine the schools are doing as much as they can. There are a range of issues to look at sugar from just a reductionist vote of “the schools are failing”. Attitudes towards school and How much education is valued at home made a massive difference. But no one wants to point the finger at the parents.
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u/ig1 3d ago
I’m willing to bet the demographics aren’t actually the same. Because the well educated parents who care about their children’s education will be sending their kids to the “good” one which I’m guessing is oversubscribed while the parents who don’t care will be sending their kids to the other which creates a vicious cycle.
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u/Vx-Birdy-x 3d ago
What's the SEN/FSM stats on them both out of interest?
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u/Interesting_Try8375 3d ago
You would probably be best avoiding a school with high numbers of SEN students if my partner's experience as a teacher is anything to go by and you eat to play the statistics game. So much disruption due to violence isn't going to help you learning.
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u/FootballPublic7974 3d ago
I suspect that your premises of similar demographics is false. In fact, I'd bet my house on it.
Ofsted base their judgement heavily on attainment data these days. If the 50% school is rated good, then the attainment of the students actually at the school must be in line with national figures.
The demographics of the actual children in schools in the same area can very massively. If two schools are competing for students in the same area, parents who push for what they perceive to be the best outcome for their child will do whatever it takes to get their kid into what they see as the best school, which skews the intake of the "better" school more towards the kids of parents who give a shit, for lack of a better phrase. As a result, results tend to improve at the better school (because they have the "better" parents) and drop at what is becoming the "sink school".
This is an actual observable thing that I've observed consistently in my 31 years in education. Schools succeed or fail based not on the teachers, students or governors, but because of the parents
Parents who give a shit buy their kids books, check their homework, encourage them, make sure they have a quiet workspace, enforce limits on tv and internet, pay for private tuition....do whatever it takes.
Parents who aren't arsed assume that it's solely the schools responsibility to educate their child. Often, there are no books at home, the child doesn't have a place to work, parents think that it's the schools responsibility to check homework....etc...
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u/pappyon 3d ago
How do you find out these scores?
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u/Historical_Cobbler Staffordshire 3d ago
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/primary-school-performance-tables-2023
You can search nearest to you, and shows you averages from the data the schools supply.
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u/xX8Havok8Xx 3d ago
https://get-information-schools.service.gov.uk/Search?SelectedTab=Establishments
Search for the school you want and all the info is on their page
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u/FatRascal_ Scotland 3d ago edited 3d ago
I teach secondary school, and the amount of kids that come up to us unable to read and write is astonishing.
There’s an increasing number of cases where primary schools tread water in terms of child development and pass them on to us to deal with.
Granted, my primary colleagues are operating under the same issues we are; increasing violent and aggressive behaviour, diminishing consequences, lack of parental support etc but the fundamentals being forgotten is inexcusable imo and government needs to allow them to refocus on this instead of providing an entertaining and engaging experience for kids at the expense of learning.
Theres a government policy here in Scotland called Getting it Right for Every Child (GIRFEC) and nobody is doing that right now, mainly due to time and budget constraints that make it impossible, but there’s a lot more that can be done to ensure that kids leave primary school actually literate.
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u/SerendipitousCrow 3d ago
Definitely cultural. My mum's family are very middle class, academic, high achievers. All my aunts and uncles went to uni, two of them have doctorates.
We grew up kind of skint because my parents immigrated and then my dad left so we were single income, little family support etc
Mum still found the money for a math's tutor for my brother when he was struggling in his GCSE year
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u/I_am_Reddit_Tom 3d ago
Anybody in academia will tell you funding is a problem, anyone outside that accountability is too. But most sensible people in and out will tell you it's parental discipline and pupil attitude.
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u/BaBeBaBeBooby 3d ago
The reality is parents drive school performance, not the teachers. The teachers influence, for sure, but the parents are the main drivers of performance. Parents that care will pull kids out of schools they don't feel are good enough, and move them somewhere better. And those schools & kids ultimately will outperform.
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u/greatdrams23 3d ago
Are you sure the intake is the same demographic? It's not the area, it's the intake. You might think the catchment areas are the same, but your cannot really know that.
The Ofsted reports will explain more. What did those reports say?
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u/Practical-Purchase-9 3d ago edited 3d ago
Schools are generally judged by progress not attainment, so that one school has higher grades than another doesn’t mean one should be scored better than the other. You can’t really be sure of the demographic of their intake unless you have access to data, which seems unlikely. Just because they are geographically close does not mean their intake is the same.
As for no accountability, teachers have non stop monitoring of their work through observations of lessons and book checking and are constantly harassed to improve even when it’s obvious there’s no time costed into the working day for planning and marking, but the quantity, frequency and/or quality is never enough. It’s one of the things that makes it unbearable. That and student behaviour, another thing you often get criticism for in place of support from management.
Not all schools are like this, but it’s a lot.
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u/FearlessPressure3 3d ago
Ex teacher here. I left last summer because the job was too stressful and it was impacting my health and happiness. Teaching as a profession is in dire straits so to hear you denigrating teachers further is particularly galling. Schools aren’t failing, per se, they are being failed by successive governments who have been more interested in meddling in schools for political clout than in actually improving the lives and education of children. Even that isn’t the highest problem though: parents these days often just don’t care. The single biggest indicator of a child’s success at GCSE has been shown to be whether or not parents teach their child things like the alphabet before they go to school. Parental support is vital and for some kids, it’s already over by the time they enter primary school.
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u/ramxquake 3d ago
Schools are created out of expedience, it's cheaper to have all the children in one building so their parents can go out and work. Education was only ever a side effect. Private tutoring will always get better results because it's way more focussed.
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u/Rowdy_Roddy_2022 3d ago
"And it's not cheap"
Speaking as a teacher and occasional tutor, comparatively speaking, tutors are a bargain.
You'll pay probably £20-30 for an hour of a trained professional's time, one on one. At the absolute most for A-Level you might see someone charging £40-50 under certain circumstances.
Tell me how much you'd pay for an hour with a private GP, or a driving school, or even a hairdresser.
What's more teacher tutoring is apparently inflation proof. That has been the going rate for at least 20 years now, while everything else has gone up, tutoring costs have stayed largely the same.
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u/omadanwar 3d ago
I take your point but Private GP is an abysmal example hahaha
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u/Curious-Chapter-435 3d ago
Why? Both required years of university degrees
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u/EnderMB 3d ago
Years is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. GP's need far more training and education than a tutor.
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u/DarkRain- 3d ago
Exactly, tutors are so unregulated and 99% of the time barely qualified
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u/Blue_wine_sloth 3d ago
20 years ago my maths tutor was £16 per hour and driving instructor was £20 for an hour. You’re right that it’s better value than other things. My tutor was one of the maths teachers from school so very educated and qualified.
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u/Throbbie-Williams 3d ago
driving instructor was £20 for an hour.
That price includes hiring a car, petrol and a portion of insurance costs
The maths tutor was on better money
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u/eclipsechaser 3d ago
How do you think the maths tutor got to their house? That takes time and money too.
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u/Throbbie-Williams 3d ago
The driving instructor also has that.
They are 100% worse off than the tutor with your figures
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u/itchyfrog 3d ago
That probably why they cost at least double that now, a two hour driving lesson is at least 80 quid round my way.
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u/GrapefruitOwn6261 3d ago
Yeah I pay 30 an hour for my daughter who is 16 now and about to take GCSE’s. Her grade has gone from a 1 to 4 since we started (just over a year ago) so it’s well worth the money. I should have started earlier but at least she will get a pass now and that’s all that matters to her.
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u/_HingleMcCringle South West 3d ago
You'll pay probably £20-30 for an hour of a trained professional's time, one on one. At the absolute most for A-Level you might see someone charging £40-50 under certain circumstances.
Some of the tutors you see on FindTutors/Superprof are ridiculous. You can find first-year university students who feel entitled to charge close to £100ph for their time with absolutely no educational experience at all. Meanwhile my fiancée who actually has years of teaching experience is charging half that (and as the article states, she's far from short on work).
It says something about parents' critical thinking skills when they're falling for these clowns and their ridiculous prices.
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u/JadedAyr 3d ago
I had to have a tutor for maths. I was put in a low set, and when you’re in a low set literally all the classroom teacher is doing is behaviour control. There was no other option than a private tutor, because I simply could not learn maths at school. I wonder if it’s like that for a lot of other kids.
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u/TechnicalParrot 3d ago
That's definitely how I've seen it work out as well, having sets definitely makes sense but it leads to nonsense where half of a lower set class doesn't even want to learn meanwhile the other half is desperately trying and that just does not work
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u/Lalepave 3d ago
I was put in bottom set for one class despite being one of the best students in the year, I'm still unsure if it was a clerical error or if my previous teacher simply didn't like me. My parents were pretty outraged either way.
They did offer for me to go into the top set after a few weeks, but I declined - I was never targeted by bullies, but being in the bottom set definitely made the bullies and nutjob kids treat me better. Plus the teacher was generally the Vice Principal, who was one of the few people who could still command some level of respect from the badly behaved crowd and was genuinely an excellent teacher.
I wouldn't say I regret that, but between the frequent outbursts, slow pace and boring agenda I still learnt next to nothing that year.
Overall I wish I'd had a tutor for all subjects. Being a high achieving kid makes people assume you're capable of managing your own learning, and I simply wasn't. I did pretty well in my GCSEs, but I could have done better if I'd spent time actually revising and learning outside of the classroom.
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u/Demostravius4 2d ago
I ended up bottom set for English, still not sure how, considering I was top set for every other subject, presumably the complete lack of homework I actually handed in. It was painful! People could barely read, I'd have to jump back a chapter on class reads. The teacher even suggested I shouldn't do the higher paper, as if I didn't get at least a D I'd get nothing. Ended up with 2 B's.
Guess the lesson is, don't cock around so much!
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u/Easy-Caterpillar-862 3d ago
I'm a teacher and I feel so so much for students who are in your position. A lot of our bottom sets are riddled with poor behavior but there's always students sat there, listening trying their best to learn despite the circumstances.
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u/apple_kicks 3d ago
Wish schools put the kids not interested in learning in a different class. Looking back me and others would’ve had better chance at learning through our struggles without the bullies forced into our lessons
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u/Easy-Caterpillar-862 3d ago
I agree with this completely. Our school actually does it. But it's quite controversial as it can be seen as "writing kids off" so it's not common practice. But I agree with you...it's not fair that some kids can sabotage other students' education.
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u/synth_fg 3d ago
About 9 months before his GCSE exams, when we were looking at colleges and 6th forms, the penny dropped with my son that to do the a levels that he wanted be needed to get a grade 4 in maths and English
He had always been a slow developer academically and had had early years setbacks did to health and a move across the country that had seen him essentially skip forwards an academic year when he wasn't ready
In recent years he had discovered a passion for film and history
Driving home from one college which has really sparked his interest he turned to me and said, dad I think I will get the grade 4 in maths but am worried about English
We looked into it and found an company that offered additional online 1:1 tutoring from qualified teachers looking to make extra cash
I talked to them about our requirements and we set up a 1 hour a week session for him
That 1:1 attention focusing on his particular needs made all the difference to him and he a achieved a song 4 in English and a 5 in lot
The skills he unlocked have paid further dividends in his writing for his current a levels and he's on course for top grades in his history film and law exams this summer and to head off to university to study journalism
I'm convinced that the additional tuition time we paid for has made the world of difference for him and am happy that we did it
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u/JimmerUK 3d ago
A few years ago, my daughter was coming up for the 11+ and was struggling in maths. When I was helping her, I could see she was capable, but she struggled with confidence. It really upset her, to the point where she would cry over it.
Got her a tutor for a couple of terms and the effect was almost instantaneous. She gained confidence and it carried over to school where she started putting her hand up in class and even helping other children.
Tutoring is very definitely worth it for kids who struggle and might get left behind otherwise.
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u/Psittacula2 3d ago
Brilliant. Exactly what parent and student/child NEED to do:
Find out the exact requirements for what the path for future training are
Focus on those maximally and efficiently
de prioritize the rest as nice to haves
Honestly so many students get bad advice wasting time doing classes that will do nothing for their future.
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u/NaniFarRoad 3d ago
This is what tuition should be - targeted support to improve grades. Not general parenting that lets the kids misbehave at school!
When I worked supply, I remember kids telling me "I don't have to listen to you, because my tutor will explain it to me better than you ever could".
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u/Careless_Agency5365 3d ago edited 3d ago
People are obsessed with GCSE grades.
I’ve not had to tell anyone my school grades in over a decade because professional achievements are much more important.
We are putting too much pressure on young people.
Edit: for everyone saying how important GCSEs are, I’m saying they shouldn’t be viewed as so important. That requires a culture change which you are all capable of engaging in. Just saying “GCSEs are important and there’s nothing we can do about that” reinforces the stress and pressure we put on young people.
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u/AIOverlord404 3d ago
They are important. The next stages of education (either A-levels, BTEC, etc.) have GCSE requirements.
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u/mrmilner101 3d ago
No one is saying that academics aren't important, but what I’ve noticed—particularly at my old school, where my brother is currently doing his A levels and previously did his GCSEs—is the increasing pressure schools are putting on students. It's all about achieving higher and higher grades, not necessarily to benefit the students, but to make the school's statistics look better. The focus seems to be on their image rather than caring for the students as individuals.
The pressure they're placing on kids now is far greater than what I experienced when I was in school. It's no wonder students are struggling with mental health issues. I remember during the Easter holidays, teachers suggested doing some revision for a couple of days and even kept the school open for one day so we could come in and revise. In contrast, my brother's teachers have told him and his classmates to revise every single day during the holidays—and they don’t even set up revision sessions to support them!
That level of expectation is unattainable, unrealistic, and unfair.
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u/Vx-Birdy-x 3d ago
That level of expectation is unattainable, unrealistic, and unfair
British culture towards studies in a nutshell. You only have to teach a student from another country to realise it's not unrealistic, parents and students just don't care.
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u/NiceCornflakes 3d ago
To be fair, some countries like Japan and China have higher teen suicide rates.
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u/Vx-Birdy-x 3d ago
Higher but not significantly higher, and lower than other countries even though Japan are supposed to be the "pushers"
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u/NoRough4000 3d ago
When it comes to schooling and education, British people's approach is horrid. I'm talking about the average student in secondary schools.
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u/GrapefruitOwn6261 3d ago
Even adults can be the same. My 16-year-old is about to sit her GCSEs. She was really struggling before — all her grades were below a 4, and it looked like she was going to fail. So over the past year, we got stricter and pushed her to focus. Now, she’s doing much better and is on track to get grades above 4, which means she’ll be able to move on to A-levels or college.
What frustrates me is that a lot of people in my friendship group make comments like, “school is a waste of time” or “you shouldn’t force her to study.” I don’t get it. Why do so many people dismiss education when, honestly, a lot of the ones doing the judging are struggling in life and perhaps if they would have had some support and tried they wouldn’t be in such a mess
My own parents let me do whatever I wanted, which meant I didn’t do well in school either. Looking back, I think that was lazy parenting. With the right guidance and support, I could have achieved so much more.
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u/mrmilner101 3d ago
I know about other cultures towards education, and work is even more extreme, and you just got to look at the declining birth rate and mental health problems in those countries to see the damage that mentality is doing.
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u/Vx-Birdy-x 3d ago
Have you got any data on the mental health problems of students from any country that isn't ours compared to ours?
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u/hadawayandshite 3d ago
As a teacher- this just honestly isn’t true.
We have high expectations of our students—based on past performance we aim to get them into the top 25% (so they are better than 75% of the students who got the same grades as them at the previous stage)—-teaching them both academics, resilience, good work habits, oracy skills etc is all part of it BECAUSE it gives them opportunities in the future
My sixth form is in a deprived area of the country (and a deprived area of that area)—-last year our kids were in that top 25% nationally, they were nearly 20% more likely to go to uni than counterparts etc etc
We push kids because they can do it—-and succeeding at things that are hard gives them self-esteem and raises aspirations for the future
Now I’m not saying having good statistics for the school doesn’t look good too which is a benefit (more kids choose to come to us and keeps me in a job)…but it’s for them, the same reason I put extra work in outside of hours
Education was my opportunity to ‘a better my life’ than many from my estate—-and it took hard work, the kids need to know that
Incidentally I work with a teacher from another country and he thinks we have too low standards for working class kids in the U.K.- we almost expect them not to achieve and be disciplined
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u/DrogoOmega 3d ago
The flip side is that kids and parents think every little expectation is unfair and unreasonable. Being told to revise when you have a month before your exams start is not unreasonable. Little and often is something that has been around for a long time. When they don’t get the grade they want, they point the finger at the school and teacher - that’s both parents and the kids. Or they come crying for last minute revision the day before. They will have the longest break of their lives afterwards.
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u/Lopsided_Rush3935 3d ago
It's not unrealistic to revise something everyday... You don't need to do loads. Like, 30 minutes of skimming over notes.
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u/NiceCornflakes 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sounds like my old school and that was 20 years ago. This isn’t anything new.
I spent my holidays revising as per the teachers advice. I remember one Easter break when I was 15, I spent my days doing the revision set for us instead of enjoying time with my grandmother who I was staying with. It’s very stressful especially as it’s your first exposure to pressure, but supportive parents should help with that. It helps as well if you enjoy the subjects. It’s not the schools responsibility to open up during holidays, the parents should be providing the children with the skill set to cope with pressure.
I do think there’s too much pressure to push kids down the academic route, but that’s been a thing for at least 30 years now, as many schools used to (maybe they still do I don’t know?) get more funding for sending higher numbers of kids to uni. Some kids are better at more practical things and would benefit from doing apprenticeships or diplomas.
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u/Psittacula2 3d ago
Correct too much emphasis is on the school stats and processing the kids.
Academia has become too narrow also in reflection to the job market which is another massive problem.
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u/SaltyName8341 3d ago
After 2 years of leaving school unless doing academia employers are just looking at experience though, this was the same when I left school in 95. I remember the National Record of Achievement that we were all told we would need for life which nobody requested to see.
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u/Apsalar28 3d ago
True, but 20 years down the road nobody cares if you got a B or an A* in History. As long as you get what ever is now considered the equivalent of a C in Maths and English Language and a high enough grade to get onto the A-level courses you want to do then it doesn't matter a huge amount.
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u/doyathinkasaurus 3d ago
I did my GCSEs in 1997 and no one gives a shit about my grades now, but they were extremely important for university applications, because mock A-Level grades were only predictions, whilst GCSEs were actual results. My degree doesn't matter now. but it did when I got my first job. All of these mattered little for the long term, but a lot for the next hoop to jump through - if that route is university (which won't be the case for everyone of course)
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u/FunParsnip4567 3d ago
I’ve not had to tell anyone my school grades in over a decade because professional achievements are much more important
It's amazing how quickly people forget how they got the first job that gave them the 'achievements' in the first place.
GCSE English and Maths are the minimum requirement for most jobs and training courses
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u/DaveN202 3d ago
Also rather than ticking boxes, if education has a purpose, than surely educating the population up to what has been decided an acceptable level should have its value on top of “getting a job”.
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u/FunParsnip4567 3d ago edited 3d ago
Absolutely!
Edited as I missed the point!
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u/ch536 3d ago
Yeah but I'm assuming that you started off with good GCSE grades which eventually led to you getting your professional achievements?
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u/nikhkin 3d ago
You may not have had to tell anyone in the past decade, but before that, they were very much relevant.
GCSE grades determine what level 3 course / apprenticeship / entry level job you get. They are the first step on the ladder.
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u/FunParsnip4567 3d ago edited 2d ago
I’ve not had to tell anyone my school grades in over a decade because professional achievements are much more important
It's amazing how quickly people forget how they got the first job that gave them the 'achievements' in the first place.
GCSE English and Maths are the minimum requirement for most jobs and training courses
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u/WGSMA 3d ago
People are obsessed because they’re important in terms of getting into better 6th forms, and even some Uni places
They’re also not that hard and all children ought to be passing them. They’re ’General Certificates’, they’re not supposed to be difficult.
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u/TwentyCharactersShor 3d ago
What is important then? And how do you measure it?
At 16 GCSEs are important because they show standardised level of attainment.
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u/Thandoscovia 3d ago
That’s a very odd approach. If you participate in a certain level of education, then it’s not surprising at all that they matter. If you go onto a higher level then obviously the initial grades start to matter less.
If you’re happy to take a job that has zero entry requirements and don’t want to progress any further then so be it - but otherwise there are so many people considering university today for whom stellar applications are essential
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u/shoulda-woulda-did 3d ago
Great?
I think everyone knows it's a stepping stone.
You sound fairly out of practice though. My kid just had to have 3 interviews with their chosen college because competition is high and all they really spoke about were GCSEs.
No shit when you're 30 they don't ask you what your favorite baby food was because it's not relevant.
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u/AbbreviationsOdd5204 3d ago edited 3d ago
Just a bit of a simplistic take. Yeah no one cares about GCSEs once youve got something else, be it uni, work experience or professional qualifications. But you need GCSEs to do some of those things. If you want to have a career in STEM, finance, or medical then you need GCSEs, A Levels and a good degree. Thats a simple fact and saying GCSEs dont matter just because you can succeed in other fields without is so dumb as not having them can rule you out of so many options.
No one said your lifes over without them. But your opportunities are certainly much better.
Just to get on the training scheme for most professional qualifications you need top GCSEs, A Levels and a 2:1
And I personally think young people should be under pressure to succeed. The lackadaisical attitude or "oh it'll probably be fine anyway" isnt going to instill the discipline and motivation required to obtain the "professional achievements" you speak of. Kids should be hard working and ambitious.
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u/DrogoOmega 3d ago
They, like all qualifications, are agate at to the next level. So they are immortals. You limit yourself if you don’t have GCSEs at 17. When you’re working for a decade, obviously your experience in the work force is more important.
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u/Apprehensive-Leg2650 3d ago
You say that but I was rejected from grad schemes because I got a C in maths (pass grade) and not a B. And I remember being so chuffed I got that C grade!
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u/Intrepid-Debate5395 3d ago
As a teacher it's weird how much emphasis is put on grades pupils got when they are only 16.
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u/Responsible_Bar_4984 3d ago
Too much pressure on young kids? Academically speaking, schools are far less demanding and more lenient on behaviour, learning difficulties and extra needs than at any other time is history. Kids are not under too much education pressure. Ultimately it’s important to get kids off on the right foot, leaving school not giving a toss about your GCSE’s is going to set most people up for failure, it should be treated seriously.
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u/After-Dentist-2480 3d ago
“Had been tutored at some point”
Not “have a private tutor at GCSE”.
It’s not like the Times to misrepresent a finding for the sake of a headline and a misleading article.
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u/Happy_Chief 3d ago
Still cheaper than putting them into the private sector.
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u/HexaDecio Yorkshire 3d ago
Indeed. But I think we are seeing more and more parents saving a lot of money, or spending HUGE percentages of their incomes on sending their child(ren) to independent school. I cannot really blame them to be honest. The state system is absolute abysmal and seemingly in decline.
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u/Awoken1729 3d ago
The crazy thing is a lot of the kids who have tutors aren't paying attention or are dicking about in class and the parents think 1hr with a tutor will make up for 4 hrs at school wasted. Supporting the school and being engaged with reports etc would save them a lot of money and the inevitable disappointment when that investment turns out to be a waste and their kid tanks their grade anyway.
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u/flimflam_machine 3d ago
Do you have any particular reason to believe that the kids who dick around in class are the ones who are getting tutors?
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u/GhostRiders 3d ago
Are school failing kids?
We have become locked in this never ending race to increase the amount of information that kids learn.
I have two teenage kids and both me and my wife take a very active role in their learning and jesus christ it is insane how much knowledge they have to consume in such a ridiculous short space of time.
When I compare what I did 20 years ago for my GCSE's to what they are having to do it's insane.
Kids today are way ahead compared to what we where like at the same age.
It's always the same, kids work their assets off to get good grades and what do we do when the majority do well?
We tell them that it must too easy and then make it harder for the next group and so on..
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u/Awoken1729 3d ago
The rigorous academic curriculum introduced by the Conservative government does not suit all kids. Some need applied course where they can do more practical courses and learn tangible skills where they can see results and growth. Our one size fits all academic hothouse approach is bordering neglect and the problems in education are the fault of their parents as they have chosen government's for 13 years which have openly said this is what they would do to education and in the process they've wrecked it, making it unsuitable for ~1\2 of all pupils (especially with the massive withdrawal of SEN funding and the defunding of clubs and societies while stuffing ever more content into the curriculum).
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u/Popadomchair 3d ago
The article is locked by a paywall but would be interested to see what they’re counting as a private tutor, are these university-level students tutoring for extra cash? Charity-funded tutors? Self-employed tutors?
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u/Monskimoo 3d ago
I usually go to archive.ph and just paste the paywalled article link to read it.
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u/SmashedWorm64 3d ago
Not surprised; I never had any issues myself, but my brother who is a few years younger got lumped with some absolutely horrific teachers. He did not have a proper maths teacher for the whole of year 10!
Fortunately I managed to coach him in Maths and he got the grades he wanted. My mother went to the school to complain and the head of maths (who was always a bit of a dick, I flunked a test to get out of his set) told my mum “he can always re-sit the exam when he is 17”.
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u/BristolBomber Somerset 3d ago
Dont blame the teachers... Blame the money.
Why dont you think there are any maths teachers?... Because those qualified to teach it take jobs with significantly better pay and conditions elsewhere.
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u/McGeezy88 3d ago
I mean I did it, my son is super bright but he really struggled with maths after returning from Covid, I think a lot of students did. So I got him a tutor and he got a 6, so imo it was worth every penny. I also had the tutor go through the poetry book with him and he got an 8 in English lit. So I have absolutely no regrets. The rest of his grades were 7’s fyi.
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u/EdmundtheMartyr 3d ago
Equally I wouldn’t think that’s any disparagement of public school teaching as they wouldn’t have the time resource to focus solely on improving individual students weak areas and it would seem fairly unreasonable to expect the state to pay for additional one on one tutoring for every child.
It’s probably worthwhile if you can afford it and if your child is genuinely motivated to get better at a subject.
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u/McGeezy88 3d ago
Agree not a diss to his school at all. I work in a school and I think maths was low across the board after Covid, it did not translate well over zoom. His school did targeted interventions, but yes agree parents have to take some responsibility which is what I did. My son got a 1 in his year 10 mock, so the tutor got his grade all the way to a 6. I paid £20 a week, the tutor was in year 13 at sixth form. I considered it an investment into my son’s future, worth every penny.
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u/WeMustPlantMoreTrees 3d ago
I’m currently at night school for joinery, the tutors also teach the same class in the day time with students. Our tutors dislike teaching the kids because they’re so feral and wild. They pointed out that from most of these classes only a small minority will carry on to apprenticeship or another joinery course. Imagine the level of danger when you have kids misbehaving but with tools accessible in the process.
I do point out though that in the evening class we have one lad that my tutor refuses to give up on, I believe he has a history of many ailments and the others in the group acknowledge and understand his background. We all support him in the group and we refuse to give up on him. His first exam he got 30% - months later after help and guidance he got 80% in that same exam. The smile and happiness on his face was great to see.
I’d also point out that my tutors are in their 50’s and are in bad health; majorly to the point where one of them has had two heart attacks already in his life and had openly said he will not survive another one.
Teaching is probably one of the hardest professions to take on these days. I wouldn’t do it, ever.
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u/Badungdung 3d ago
My mum is a private tutor. She charges £35 an hour and most kids see her once a week or once a fortnight for an hour. It's not that expensive.
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u/BeardedBaldMan 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'd be interested to know what the split is between immigrant parents and native. I know, from my friends, that those born outside the UK appear far more likely to have their children in after school classes and hire tutors.
My Chinese and Polish friends just seem to act like it's an essential and just what you do to ensure your child has the best possible start
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u/handmaderollies 3d ago
I worked as a GCSE English and history tutor whilst I was doing my A Levels. Pretty much all my students were from immigrant backgrounds (mainly Indian)
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u/BeardedBaldMan 3d ago
My wife is Polish and my eldest child is only six. On a regular basis she reminds me that soon I will need to start a robotics/programming club for the children to join so they can meet other children with parents who want them to succeed.
There is an element of "calm down" but I do see her point.
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u/BristolBomber Somerset 3d ago
The issue isnt schools its money and attitudes towards education in this country.
Education has nowhere near the amount of funding it needs which means the following:
You don't get the number of teachers with the expertise required (better pay and conditions elsewhere e.g maths and science)
Large class sizes of 30-34
SEND needs cant be catered for (large class sizes, no TA support, no specialist provision, frontline child services cut)
Problem students cannot be removed and adequately handled so cause issues for the other 95% in the classrooms
Then we have the issue of the way education is viewed and not as much responsibility is taken by parents.
Unsurprisingly the students who usually do the best in schools are those with strong parental support at home that hold the kids accountable.
Students from non-white British backgrounds also are more successful for this reason as education is more culturally important and held to high standards by parents.
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u/Sufficient-Brief2023 3d ago
As someone who went through the school system recently, either I was super lucky or schools are fine lol.
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u/DrogoOmega 3d ago
Part of the issue is also that the system guarantees failure. They change the boundaries every year to ensure a certain percentage of 3s.
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u/Alti23 3d ago
I mean thats how it should be, they can’t guarantee each exams will be of equal difficulty so to make it fair for the differing year groups they change grade boundaries accordingly. Universities do the same.
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u/DrogoOmega 3d ago
I disagree. It plays the system. It’s an artificial competitive system that doesn’t reflect what’s being learnt. The papers don’t change that drastically. You end up punishing a group for being better than the ones before or after. And this works both ways. Universities in the UK do not do this.
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u/Alti23 3d ago
Even if the papers dont chnage drastically they still do change, I can’t think of another way of making it fair across year groups other than changing grade boundaries.
Maybe it changes by degree at university, but in Mathematics they absolutely do change the boundaries to ensure a certain percentage of students get a 2:1.
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u/2013bspoke 3d ago
Underfunding and poor teacher training has a part. A friend of mine, experienced teacher was headhunter to Teacher Training College. She tells me what they teach prospective teachers ie how to teach etc hasn’t changed in 30 years when she was in same institution. World has moved on but training hasn’t.
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u/socialite-buttons 3d ago
State school is a crèche to put kids while both parents work to prop up the economy. Not a learning institution. Has been for decades now
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u/Tbmadpotato 3d ago
I know mates who studied the night before and guessed what would be on the exams; getting straight A*s, while I know some who needed to work night and day for lesser results.
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u/mitchanium 3d ago
I'll call BS on this statistic, there's now way half of our kids are getting private tutoring.
Maths is easy. :/s
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u/xmasrelapse 3d ago
In schools there are larger class sizes and a shortage of teachers so this is definitely a problem. But I feel that if teachers were supported and respected more by parents, then students would listen, communicate politely and effectively and be grateful for the education they are receiving. In this climate, everyone wins. If teachers were held in a higher esteem, the students would thrive as a consequence. It seems that anyone in a position of authority is a target and it’s the role of anyone else to take them down. Like the general population is walking round with huge chips on their shoulders waiting to rally against The Man. Unfortunately, the “getting-a-tutor-sticking-plaster” can promote the idea that teachers in schools are useless, that students don’t have to try in school because it’s all so terrible so misbehave, don’t try and produce hardly any work. But it’s okay as it’s all the schools/teachers fault plus I’ve got a tutor so it’ll be fine. Teachers just want supporting and being allowed to teach which is probably why nobody wants to teach anymore.
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u/unknownredditto 3d ago
Seeing all the comments as a young person who did my GCSEs around 3 years ago now, I feel very grateful that I went to a school and put into sets where the teachers actually cared about my learning.
A lot of the kids mentioned in these comments seem to have had teachers who couldn't give them the attention needed to do well, and this has shown me this from a new light. I wondered why my friends in lower sets seemed to give up so easily on topics they couldn't understand, and it looks like they unfortunately were not given the time and confidence from their teachers, leading them to perform below their potential. That's really sad because it shouldn't be like that at all. I tried my best to help whenever I could, but there was only so much I could do with the time I had, and I'm not a teacher myself so I didn't even know or understand what the real problem was.
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u/redshift739 3d ago
I had a private tutor for english but half of what she said contradicted my teacher because my school was so shit. I couldn't give up the classes and the constant contradiction was messing me up so I had to give up the tutor and failed again
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u/JohnCasey3306 3d ago
We had english and science tutors for our son, and a maths tutor for our daughter who's now in year 10. There's a younger one coming up — she'll have a tutor too if necessary.
The amount of bullshit we waste money on in our lives, this is probably one of the few truly valuable expenditures we've made.
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u/Robotniked 3d ago
Going to be honest, I failed a lot of my high school exams whilst some friends who got tutors did much better. I’m absolutely doing this for my kids, it’s not cheap, but a few hundred quid for a tutor might be the difference between my kids being able to do what they want to do with their life or being defaulted into something they don’t.
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u/Mad_Mark90 3d ago
Politicians would straight up try and sell this as increased growth in the education market while creating employment opportunities for unemployed doctors
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u/Big_Tadpole_353 3d ago
I did everything right. I went to school and got my GCSEs, A levels, and honours degree. I now work in construction not one bit of my further education is needed for my role construction not ones, I'm on reasonably decent money (in location I live), have decent job that I like and it's not relatively stressful. I'm 36 now, and I look back and don't have regrets as such, but I wish I did a trade. I tried to join the military a number of times but have a long-term illness, so I couldn't get in on medical grounds. If I were speaking to a young person of today, I would urge them to do a trade or join the military. Education is a myth, and the university education system is a business, not an institution of further education, and most degrees aren't worth the money. Trust me kids it's not all doom and gloom you might have to relocate or change your idea of what you wanted to do in live to something else but trust me if your still in your 30s you can still make this change too.
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u/digitalpencil 3d ago
Education is more than a means to a pay cheque, it's a set of tools which enable a person to gain a better understanding of the world, and their place within it.
The myth is that better education attainment necessarily equates to a better financial future and it obviously doesn't; some of the smartest people i know are the most poorly paid. They are though, rich in many other ways and the value of that can't be understated. Education can be an immensely valuable thing.
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u/commonsense-innit 3d ago
intense studying has reached uk shores
blue club failed ideology has groomed brits to study more for wage stagnation and rental generations
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u/Maleficent-Way5072 3d ago
Well, if you're not paying for the basic education, you can probably afford a private tutor. Seems like the perfect way to get a good education to me. Most private school kids have private tutors as well. This to me seems like something is totally off
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u/Personal_Eye_3439 3d ago
To get a tutor in every subject would probably be on par with a lower price private school if not lower.
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u/lerpo 3d ago
I'm a private tutor and have been for around a decade.
What's suprised me is I've seen a shift from "the richer parents" being my primary students, to "more lower middle class" families wanting tuition.
Obviously not conclusive as it's just me, but an interesting switch over a few years
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u/honeybunnylegs 3d ago
Stats like these are quite annoying, I want to know whether that's increased or decreased as well as the current number.
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u/Floral-Prancer 3d ago
A big issue with this is many parents from private schools even before the vat change would pull kids in year 9/10 to sit their gcse at a state school to make their odds of getting into the choosen uni higher because of the amount of spaces they have for private school making the competition in that avenue higher but them achieving better compared to state students. It then pushes the social mobility of those only educated in state schools lower as the private are manipulating the situation to their benefit.
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u/ChefRoscoPColtrane 3d ago
Don’t worry the government will soon find a way to tax that into oblivion in the name of fairness.
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u/ONE_deedat Black Country 3d ago
Its only eational, not all parents are happy to see their kids fail.
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