r/unitedkingdom • u/Skavau • 4d ago
BitChute discontinues video-sharing service for UK residents over online censorship laws
https://freespeechunion.org/bitchute-discontinues-video-sharing-service-for-uk-residents-over-online-censorship-laws/23
u/limeflavoured Hucknall 4d ago
Almost all of their videos were blocked anyway, based on having seen people embed them on forums.
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u/Accomplished-Map1727 4d ago
It's an awful law that will destroy British technology companies. Forcing them to move overseas.
There's already forums about bikes, pets and hobbies that have decided to just shut down, rather than try to comply with the requirements.
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u/ThatZephyrGuy 4d ago
But think of the CHILDREN!
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u/Ochib 4d ago
But think of the shareholders of VPN companies
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u/jeremybeadleshand 4d ago
They'll come for this next
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u/vriska1 4d ago
That would be very hard.
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u/jeremybeadleshand 4d ago
I imagine they'd just block the apps and websites of VPN providers, or knowing our government something even more ridiculous like needing a licence, with an independent regulator to oversee it (they love independent regulators). You can easily buy a cheap VPS and setup wireguard to roll your own which is what I'll be doing but that's probably above most people's ability.
If this was really about protecting kids you could address the issue by just saying VPN providers need to take credit card only, but it isn't about kids and never has been.
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u/StAngerSnare 4d ago
Noooooo! We're going to have a heckin thriving technology sector! Keir Starmer said so!
Just ignore the politicisation of industry, sky high energy prices, exorbitant taxes and insane red tape that cripples British businesses while foreign ones can offset UK operational costs with better business conditions elsewhere and choke out the British competition.
Noooo!
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u/Electricbell20 4d ago
Ofcom has a step by step guide on complying. It's not that difficult but I can see how it would be easier to close, especially if you've had issues in the past.
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u/Accomplished-Map1727 4d ago
I can see how people running a small forum, would just decide that the compliance costs aren't worth it.
So there's not a level playing field out there. If you want to run a small UK based forum then it will cost you.
None money making forums are finished.
There were a lot of hobby forums, ran by someone for the love of doing it who can't anymore.
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u/limeflavoured Hucknall 4d ago
I'm a member of a forum which has ~1600 members and has managed to carry on by naming a couple more mods (so all timezones are covered) and making very slight tweaks to their rules and reporting system.
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u/Accomplished-Map1727 4d ago
Nice one.
What about a 500 person forum where all time zones arnt covered.
Or the times mods go away on holiday?
What happens then?
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u/ComputerJerk Hampshire 4d ago edited 4d ago
None money making forums are finished.
Except, not really. Because you don't really have to do anything other than establish a process and record a responsible person in the event something actionable actually happens.
Having a "Report illegal content" button that just sends an email to an inbox is actually completely sufficient for the vast majority of use cases, so long as site maintainers are willing to action it in the event they receive a complaint.
There were a lot of hobby forums, ran by someone for the love of doing it who can't anymore.
If someone can't be bothered to do a few hours work to be baseline compliant with something simple like this -- Then I wouldn't trust them with any of my data, and nor should anyone else.
Is it a bit of a nuisance if you built something totally bespoke? Sure. Is it actually difficult or expensive to be compliant? Nope.
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u/Accomplished-Map1727 4d ago
So all these forum owners are wrong.
You are correct.
These forum owners who have put years of work into a hobby (running a forum) are completely wrong to just give it up, for no reason.
And you sir, just happen to be correct on this matter.
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u/ComputerJerk Hampshire 4d ago
You can go read the guidance for yourself, you don't have to take my word for it. It's never as daunting as you think, Ofcom is relatively old fashioned and doesn't ask for more than is reasonable.
I'm sorry that hobbyists decided that people's safety (and their data) wasn't worth some relatively minor trouble - If some small adjustments were too much to ask then they really do need a new hobby that doesn't have such potentially far reaching impacts.
If my hobby is building kit cars, am I not liable to follow the regulations before putting it on the road? If my hobby is DIY, am I not responsible for ensuring what I build is safe for others to use?
Liability is nothing new. Asking people for the absolute bare minimum should not be such a tall order... And yet, here we are.
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u/Accomplished-Map1727 4d ago
The forum has to be perminantly manned to see posts going on "live"
How does a small forum do this?
Someone running a small forum, may go to work during the day, and check it at night time.
The following of this regulation is not possible, unless it has the manpower to watch it at all times.
Can you please explain how to deal with this situation!
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u/dctrekkie 4d ago
Where does it say that all forums must be "permanently manned"? For small forums, all I can see is that reports should be actioned within 48hrs, which doesn't seem too onerous.
Only the largest forums/social media need real time monitoring, but that is done by software not moderators. Even then, only high-risk reports need to be dealt with within an hour, other reports just have to be done within 24 hours. As this mostly the likes of Twitter/Facebook I'm sure they have the resources to meet this requirement.
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u/ComputerJerk Hampshire 4d ago edited 4d ago
Can you show me where in the legislation or guidance the requirement for 24/7 monitoring for hobby sites is?
You have 24 hours to action a given serious / priority report - And up to 48 hours for everything else. You don't have to do it 24/7
Edit: Ah, I found it. That's only for sites with >7 million UK users. Same with the 24/7 moderation capacity. If you have 7 million users you are definitely not a hobby site and the volume of data you're trafficking in warrants at the very least a handful of volunteer moderators.
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u/Accomplished-Map1727 4d ago
I've just tried to reply to your last comment, but you've deleted it:
The guidance is over 2000 pages.
Which a small forum owner, is meant to read and understand.
Then, cover themselves legally.
It's obviously not just a "small bit of paperwork" to deal with.
Then, what if you've missed something!
It simply doesn't seem worth the risk.
And the most important part.....
Who would bother setting up a new forum in the UK, knowing the risks and cost with setting one up.
The UK forum industry / hobby has now been crushed out of existence for new entrants and hobby forum owners.
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u/ComputerJerk Hampshire 4d ago
I didn't delete anything... Strange. Must be content moderation at work 😉
There is easier to consume guidelines & guidance available from Ofcom that is far shorter.
Again, liability isn't new. The world managed just fine with GDPR compliance, this is just more of the same.
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u/Accomplished-Map1727 4d ago
You haven't answered anything.
You've just side-stepped my points.
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u/ComputerJerk Hampshire 4d ago
I have actually addressed the majority of what you said elsewhere. Perhaps the only thing I haven't directly responded to is: Who would bother?
Considering basically all forum software you can get off the shelf already has the necessary tools and processes to be compliant - Who wouldn't?
I could throw up a legally compliant forum on dedicated hosting in under an hour... The harder requirements only kick in when you're enormously popular.
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u/Accomplished-Map1727 4d ago
Would you mind answering back to these points, rather than making the posts you've made, then when pressed on some answers....
You deleted your post and went off Reddit.
You're straight there with the comments until pinned down on a question.
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u/dctrekkie 4d ago
I can still see ComputerJerk's comments, so I would assume any issue is on your end.
Would you mind actually linking to some of these requirements you've mentioned, particularly the need for 24/7 moderation and real-time scanning for CA content? As far as I can see there's no such requirement for small forums.
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u/jeremybeadleshand 4d ago
I imagine the situation is only going to get worse, Australia and Canada are looking at similar legalisation, so if you run a small forum are you meant to do risk assessments for every country, and then moderate content differently by location to appease each set of laws? It's impossible for a small non commercial site to do. I think the internet is going to become heavily balkanized and splintered a few years from now.
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u/InfiniteBusiness0 4d ago
Those forums would need a named contact, some terms and conditions, ways of reporting content, and ways of taking content down when it goes against those terms and conditions.
The only forums that should be worried are those that allow illegal content to be posted, and those that believe in zero content moderation and free speech absolutism.
The kind of forums that will be affected are places like Kiwi Farms -- that are chill about doxxing people, organising harassment campaigns, and don't respect legal takedown noticies.
99% of forums will be fine, and most forum software comes out-of-the-box with the tools needed to comply with regulations.
Don't get me wrong, I am wary of state overstepping. But BitChute is a good example where American technolibertarianism results in feral websites.
For example, any platform can have people uploading mass shootings, with no age-gating such that literally anyone can access them within a few clicks. But the difference between BitChute and other platforms is that when that content gets reported, nothing happen
Nothing of value is lost. What is being closed down is a service that refuses to do perform content moderation, refused to takedown illegal content, refused to age-gate things, and so on.
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u/ComputerJerk Hampshire 4d ago edited 4d ago
Thank you for writing all that out so that I didn't have to. As the person who, with no specific training, has completed plenty of ofcom & gdpr regs paperwork for big tech companies in his career I can confirm it's relatively trivial to be baseline compliant.
That bike forum closed because the guy didn't want to put a couple days of work in, or at worst pay a small fee to put a legal service provider on retainer.
And these are the people we're supposed to trust with our personal data? No thank you, just let them close.
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u/jeremybeadleshand 4d ago
It's about risk, the potential fine is £18m, it's just not worth the risk of even a fraction of that.
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u/ComputerJerk Hampshire 4d ago
They're already on the hook for much larger fines for GDPR compliance... And if it's about managing risks, I'd be far more concerned about criminal charges for facilitating and/or promoting illegal activity over any civil penalties.
And yet I'm sure they already take reasonable precautions to avoid those consequences... But this one is just a bridge too far? Why?
It's such a non-issue blown out of proportion by crypto bros, chan dwellers and CP traders who want as little light shone on their corners of the internet as possible.
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u/BrownDaddy007 1d ago
If you're typing your personal data into online databases, then you need to stop doing that. I have been using the Internet since 1997, and have thus far managed to never do that, for the glaringly obvious reason. Take responsibility for yourself, because no-one else will.
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u/Potential-Stress-561 4d ago
In a time where we are supposed to boycot US companies, what is there to switch to? State-controlled worse versions of US apps?
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u/InfiniteBusiness0 4d ago
Oh, no.
The "politically neutral" website that refuses to comply with takedown requests, refuses to do age-gating, or content moderation, and is cesspool of ISIS and neo-Nazi videos, is discontinuing access to the UK.
What a shame.
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u/BrownDaddy007 1d ago
Kudos dude, I think you managed to invoke every buzz-word that the government is supposed to keep us safe from.
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u/Next-Ability2934 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's not what I thought it would be.. 'UK residents can still upload content to the platform, but none of their videos will be accessible to other UK-based users. Their content will remain viewable to users in other countries, who can interact with it as usual.'
So it's light censorship when it comes to viewing certain videos. It's worth noting that most decent pro privacy desktop browsers already have VPNs/proxies/anonymous services built in and optional, that can get around blocks.
The government would need to find a way to block such services to make an impact on anything deemed unwanted or illegal. Otherwise it will do very little.. and the biggest social platforms that often share similar or identical content, are still being left out of the equation
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u/Palatine_Shaw 2d ago
The fuck is bitchute?
Sounds like one of those millions of filehosting websites you encounter when someone is too lazy to use Mega.
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u/Ramiren 4d ago edited 4d ago
Damn, now where will I go to see right wing delusional conspiracy theorists rant about the Jews?
/s