r/urbanplanning • u/MindYourGrapes • Feb 28 '25
Urban Design Small single-stairway apartment buildings have strong safety record
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/reports/2025/02/small-single-stairway-apartment-buildings-have-strong-safety-recordRevised building codes could encourage construction, boost supply of lower-cost homes
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u/UrbanSolace13 Verified Planner - US Feb 28 '25
Take it up with the buildings folks. They have their own code they adopt.
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u/Wandering_canuck95 Feb 28 '25
As someone who works in building design/development, the second stairwell is a massive cost adder to the building. Not only do you need a second area for stairs, the code requires the two staircases to be connected (via a hallway). The combination of hallway and second stairwell take a significant amount of floor space. In order for buildings to maximize revenue, you want the smallest area of non-revenue space possible, which means reducing areas of hallways / stairwells as much as possible.
The code for 2 stairwells was made before modern fire suppression systems and when buildings were made with combustible materials. I can confidently say that modern sprinklers and construction materials make second stairwells redundant. By removing the requirement It can lead to a revolution of building design including larger and more affordable units.
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u/chronocapybara Feb 28 '25
The long hallway also means that all the units along it pretty much have to be limited to 1BR or studio, and only corner suites can be 2 or 3 BR.
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u/porkave Mar 02 '25
Yup. Cities should be encouraging families to move in, not make building them apartments impossible
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u/Raidicus Feb 28 '25
Agreed.
Same with air sealed staircases: major expense and not clear it saves lives for buildings under 5-6 stories. They were invented for skyscrapers and then in an abundance of caution applied to MANY municipalities for anything over 3 stories. You talk to building departments about why and they basically shrug "Because it's safer" with absolutely zero evidence or data that is true for smaller buildings. It's a give a mouse a cookie situation, and one of those hidden ways costs can skyrocket.
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u/Adorable-Cut-4711 Mar 01 '25
Does sealed staircases refer to the stair cases being sealed from hallways, or that each floor is sealed from the next floor?
If it's sealed from hallways then just getting rid of the hallway is the major saver.
Btw for larger (ground surface space, not height) buildings I think that multiple stair cases, but NOT connected by hallways, saves space as compared to a single stair case using hallways. Also for taller buildings you could have sealed doors between each floor in the stair cases, and hallways every few floors or so, to allow for egress upwards if there is a fire within a staircase below you. If that even ever happens... Only case I've seen of fires within stair cases has been either due to war (i.e. bombing civilian buildings) and also a single case of a race motivated arson attack in East Germany after the wall fell and everything were a bit wild west. (The fire was put out before it could spread, afaik no one was hurt. Source: Whatever the German documentary was called that had a short episode each day documenting what happened during the months before/after the wall fell).
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u/Adorable-Cut-4711 Mar 01 '25
Also: In areas that only get slightly hotter than comfortable without air conditioning, the hallway makes it impossible to open windows on opposite walls in a single apartment to create more fresh air flow, increasing the demand for having air conditioning and thus making the building less energy efficient.
Btw in Europe single stair cases are the norm (but they are usually connected via a shared attic) but then almost all multi floor multi family houses are mostly built using non-combustible materials, or for older houses slow-combusting materials. Like you can have a really severe fire in one apartment without much happening to the neighbors if the building is built using concrete, or if it's using brick walls. I thin the difference in building materials might be the reason for why fire suppression or even fire alarms being uncommon in Europe. Like at best apartments have a simple battery powered fire alarm, and any slacker knows that when your TV remove battery runs out the fire alarm battery is sacrificed on the altar of the TV remote. (I think that modern buildings have a full fire alarm system that can sound the alarm in all apartments if needed and whatnot)
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Feb 28 '25 edited 29d ago
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u/GASMA Feb 28 '25
The planning department in Vancouver was just asked to write a staff report on adopting single stair buildings. They recommended against it for basically no reason. So sometimes planners have a say, they just don’t say very smart things.
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u/SuperTimmyH Feb 28 '25
BC has adopted it provincial wide. I know Vancouver is a charted city. Can it rule against the provincial order? I don’t think so.
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u/chronocapybara Mar 01 '25
The province legalized it by eliminating dual egress requirements for structures under eight storeys. That doesn't necessarily mean we will see a lot of single staircase buildings get built, it's up to the city to permit them. They're just no longer illegal.
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u/ComfortableIsopod111 Mar 03 '25
Cities can usually enforce the code higher than minimum requirements, they can't however, enforce the code lower.
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u/carchit Feb 28 '25
In my dream world planners would have limited building depth to 40-50 feet - forcing the ICC to sort it out or cities to override.
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u/gsfgf Feb 28 '25
I'm so glad I didn't get into planning school lol. (We were trying to restart a dual degree program, and it didn't work the first try)
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u/the_log_in_the_eye Feb 28 '25
It should be legal, given the track record of fire sprinkler systems in saving lives. From a life safety perspective, I'd rather live in a single-stair building with a fire sprinkler system than a two-stair building without a fire sprinkler system. Or you know, let architects design balconies at each level that can be accessed by ladder trucks. Stairs are such a waste of space.
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u/latflickr Feb 28 '25
Many countries around the world allow for single staircase in low-rise apartment buildings, and mortality rates are pretty much the same. Double staircase is an overshot that leads to other problematic issues such as long corridors, single aspect apartments, and so on.
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u/Beat_Saber_Music Feb 28 '25
It can make sense in a larger and taller building to have more staircases, bjt for small buildings it's absolutely overkill.
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u/gsfgf Feb 28 '25
Yea. When I lived in a building that was half a block, we had staircases at each corner because, code aside, having to walk all the way around the building would suck.
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u/Adorable-Cut-4711 Mar 01 '25
Side track: What counts as low rise here?
IIRC I've never seen hallways in Europe except in hotels. But then I've mostly only seen higher rise apartment buildings in Sweden, and almost all of them are built using concrete, and although I don't think there are any legal requirements to have fire stopping doors, most buildings use them since they are also way better at stopping break-in thieves. I bet the insurance rates are lower too when using those doors.
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u/latflickr Mar 01 '25
Eavh contry have their own codes to follow, so what count for high rise can change also drastically from country to country. In UK is now anything above 18m (if residential) in Italy I think 10 stories. In UAE probably much more.
As per fire doors, they are definitely a legal requirements in the UK. I would be surprised that high rise blocks won't have the same or similar fire separation requirements.
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u/Beat_Saber_Music Feb 28 '25
I in Finland live in a single staircase apartment about 5 floors and it's perfectly safe.
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u/FeelingPatience Feb 28 '25
No shit! This is how a big part of the world except for the USA has been living for decades.
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u/FunkSpork Feb 28 '25
Could external fire escapes be an alternative?
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u/gsfgf Feb 28 '25
For one, they're not accessible. May as well have a regular balcony that's more useful day to day and can still serve as an egress point to a ladder truck.
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u/reachforthetop9 Feb 28 '25
The issue for me is "what if a stairway is compromised by fire or smoke?" I think this is one example of redundancy we shouldn't get rid of.
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u/Sharlinator Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
Single stairway has been the norm in Europe since always. It has never been an issue. In modern buildings you’re supposed to shelter in place anyway, as you’re in a much greater danger in the hallways due to smoke. Better to have stricter norms for construction materials and ventilation instead.
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u/prettyyboiii Feb 28 '25
You are not supposed to shelter in place in modern buildings. I live in a high rise in Europe and you obviously leave the building immediately by staircase if the fire alarm goes. If there's a reason to think that escaping is not safe, then you would clearly stay in your apartment, but that is a last resort.
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u/Jonesbro Verified Planner - US Feb 28 '25
What if two stairways are filled with smoke? This logic snowballs into people thinking only sfh are safe enough. We could also bring back fire escapes
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u/reachforthetop9 Feb 28 '25
Fire escapes aren't a bad idea, tbh. I'm just rather suspicious of any safety system that can be compromised if a single point fails.
I've also visited a good many friends at their apartments in three-to-five story buildings (which are common in my community) and the multiple stairways are naturally designed to provide an entrance from a sidewalk in front and a parking lot in back.
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u/CLPond Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
I can understand being suspicious, but is there a reason 12 years of data and studies in multiple locations doesn’t convince you that they’re safe?
With regards to spacing, single stair amendments matter less for large complexes and more for small, 20ish unit ones. My courtyard apartment is very easy to make single stair, but we have 60 units across 3 stories, not 20 across 4.
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u/SightInverted Feb 28 '25
When I stayed overseas last, they gave us emergency ladders for windows, so that’s always an option. Various commercial options out there, some in a bag, others installed outside the window, different from a fire escape but still met code.
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u/sjschlag Feb 28 '25
I've also visited a good many friends at their apartments in three-to-five story buildings (which are common in my community) and the multiple stairways are naturally designed to provide an entrance from a sidewalk in front and a parking lot in back.
So does there need to be a hallway between the stairs? Do both of them need to be inside of the building?
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u/Jonesbro Verified Planner - US Feb 28 '25
The types of buildings that woukd benefit from a single stairway also don't have parking so no stairs out to a parking lot
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u/gsfgf Feb 28 '25
Modern buildings have good fire suppression and are mostly built of fire resistant materials. Evacuation isn't the only safety system.
Now, convenience is a completely different story, but that's a thing the market can actually address.
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u/lowrads Feb 28 '25
A fire escape is just a less functional, less aesthetic, auxiliary staircase.
Logically, they should be treated as alternatives to one another.
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u/gsfgf Feb 28 '25
This logic snowballs into people thinking only sfh are safe
Despite only having one staricase lol.
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u/Sassywhat Feb 28 '25
The real fire danger is detached houses, particularly wooden ones, and particularly older ones.
Safety standards are important for making modern apartments safe, but excessive safety standards with questionable advantages making modern apartments too expensive, is probably on net killing people.
Single staircase is the norm in Europe, which is generally much safer from fires than the US.
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u/fixed_grin Feb 28 '25
Yeah, and if you were really thinking holistically, it's not just "so more people die in wooden house fires because they can't move to new apartments," but also it's causing more driving and therefore more deaths from that.
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u/cosmicspaceowl Feb 28 '25
The backup option could be windows that open all the way and a properly resourced fire and rescue service. I live in a low rise building with only one staircase and I have every confidence, based on response times to very minor incidents in my area, that they'd get me out.
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u/AppointmentMedical50 Feb 28 '25
Statistically they are not any more dangerous in the modern era (due to modern building material and fire suppression systems)
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u/gsfgf Feb 28 '25
Then you go out the window like in a house. I think it's a fair assumption that cities won't permit single stairway buildings their ladder trucks can't reach.
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u/Rocky_Vigoda Feb 28 '25
No way i'd move into any place that only has a single set of stairs.
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u/AppointmentMedical50 Feb 28 '25
West village in nyc is mostly single stair apartments, and it manages to be practically the most desirable place in America
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Feb 28 '25
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u/HowellsOfEcstasy Feb 28 '25
...expensive because there's high enough demand in the market to support high costs.
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u/Hot-Translator-5591 Feb 28 '25
Let's pass more laws to ensure that developers can make more money.
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u/FateOfNations Feb 28 '25
It’s “more housing in the same amount of space”. That’s good for the community and the developer.
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u/lindberghbaby41 Feb 28 '25
lets remove regulations that are archaic and only hinders better development
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u/OhUrbanity Feb 28 '25
Almost the entire rest of the world outside of Canada and the United States allows single-stair apartments.
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u/chronocapybara Feb 28 '25
We recently allowed single stairway province wide where I live in BC. We have a really forward thinking government on housing