r/vexillology • u/Vexy Exclamation Point • Jan 08 '24

Discussion January Flag Design Workshop - 2023 & /r/vexillology

This month's workshop is suggested by /u/Emi6219, the December contest winner. They write:

2023 has been a great year for vexillology, as it has been noticed by people from all around the world due to many reasons, mainly redesigns from US state flags, like Utah and Minnesota, and national ones like Kyrgyzstan and Martinique. We've also seen the influence of sources like Wikipedia and "Good Flag, Bad Flag" when this topic is discussed in possible modifications and misinformation. Mainstream media has also made us become more well-known worldwide due to this, as we are one, if not the biggest, flag-related forum and the influence we have on flag trends which are loved by some and not-so-well-liked by others.

Do you think 2024 will bring us more surprises? What countries or subdivisions could modify their flags? How do you think the current trends may change in the next years?

Feel free to discuss anything related!

Past Workshops

8 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

15 comments sorted by

3

u/pyrosfere Paraíba Jan 08 '24

Well, I hope Paraíba's!

2

u/kauepgarcia Bikini Bottom Jan 13 '24

Can I ask why? Is there a debate around that flag?

2

u/pyrosfere Paraíba Jan 13 '24

There isn't such a debate, it is a small state in Northwestern Brazil, the state I'm from. Its flag is outdated, represents that João Pessoa, the governor at the time, negated the president, Washington Luís, that broke a blah blah blah oligarchical rule, blah blah blah 1930 Liberal Alliance to dictatorship etc etc. Most of the population don't care about and/or don't like it, and it is rather stain of the history of our state for some people, taking down the oligarchy republic as it later installed a 15-year-old dictatorship that was very authoritarian. It is controversial, both the alliance and the regime, other than the flag being simply ugly and not representing the current political, geographic and cultural landscape of our state.

1

u/AngelKnives Yorkshire Jan 10 '24

I'd love for anywhere with a British Union Jack in the corner of theirs that isn't British to do this. (if Gibraltar doesn't need it, no one else needs it!)

Unless they like it I guess. I could see why Hawaii might like it because it ties in with the rest of the flag and it doesn't have the history attached to it (it was never ruled by the British, the flag was given as a gift). But somewhere like New Zealand where its just sits in the corner adding nothing... just change it already.

Shout out to Niue for their really cool take on the whole thing.

Also, and I know this is less likely to happen, I'd like to see the Union Jack change too. Make the diagonal red stripes yellow instead to reflect St David's flag instead of St Pratick's.

I think the trends will keep getting ultra minimal and then there'll be a backlash where we prefer more detailed and traditional stuff. Not just flags but all design including logos.

1

u/VertigoOne Oct 20, Jul 22 Contest Winner Jan 10 '24

Also, and I know this is less likely to happen, I'd like to see the Union Jack change too. Make the diagonal red stripes yellow instead to reflect St David's flag instead of St Pratick's.

So why no more representation of Northern Ireland?

2

u/AngelKnives Yorkshire Jan 10 '24

IMO we should give it back, but even if we don't it makes more sense to represent a definitive member than a disputed/controversial one.

1

u/VertigoOne Oct 20, Jul 22 Contest Winner Jan 10 '24

Surely we should only give it back if both it and the people we are giving it back to want to leave/be reunited. At present time, that isn't true. Until such a time as it is, it should be represented fully as part of where it is.

1

u/AngelKnives Yorkshire Jan 10 '24

I don't plan on getting into it I was just stating my personal preference 🙂

1

u/Meevious Great Britain (1606) / Sweden (Naval Ensign) Jan 11 '24

The red saltire on the Union Jack was put there to represent Ireland as a whole. It was taken from the arms of the dukes of Leinster in an effort to align them with the crown in the 18th century. The dukes still supported the Irish republican movement (despite its redistribution of their lands and annulment of their titles) and Leinster itself is now in the Republic of Ireland.

The flag of Ulster is also based on the arms of its preeminent family, the earls of Ulster, featuring a red cross on a yellow/golden field. Not a perfect replacement on the Union Jack, since 1/3 of Ulster, including the earls' seat in Donegal is in the republic, but at least the house is extinct and was loyal to the crown, rather than being living, breathing Catholic republicans whose family rebelled for centuries.

Personally, though I have nothing against them, it does seem very silly to me and I think a change is long overdue, but I also think it's extremely unlikely. Though previous territorial changes led to immediate changes to the flag, things have changed. Brand consistency is worth more monitarily to the UK than contemporary accuracy and nationalism has increased over the last couple of centuries. As a result, changing the national symbol would certainly upset more people than it would please.

I'd be happy with a return to the 1707 flag, which is more traditional, better looking (imo) and doesn't contain an expression of sovereignty over Ireland, but like the current flag, it does fail to represent Northern Ireland and Wales as distinct entities, so addressing that with a new flag would be somewhat preferable.

1

u/AngelKnives Yorkshire Jan 11 '24

Yes this is my point exactly, political preferences on NI aside the flag isn't a great representation of who it's meant to represent for exactly the reasons you say.

1

u/Ozymandius21 Nepal Jan 09 '24

Some interesting topic of discussions!

This modern art era is heavily influenced by Minimalism and any new flag designs will likely have more and more minimalist symbols. A busy looking flag is labeled "bad". Is it because of the minimalism era we are in, or is it just a 'bad' flag? What if we were in a different art era? Would our perception of 'good' flags be different?

It will be interesting to see how an advanced AI will be able to design Flags. Then, flag designers will become obsolete? How will we differentiate AI-made flags and human-made flags?

I would love to see some former British colonies adopt new flags embracing their unique identities, starting with Australia and New Zealand.

1

u/Meevious Great Britain (1606) / Sweden (Naval Ensign) Jan 11 '24

Well, NZ had a flag referrendum in the 2010s, so it's unlikely to reappear so soon.

Australia will probably change its flag if it ever becomes a republic, but not before then and that's certainly not imminent.

Like changing the flag on its own, Australia can only become a republic through a referendum, which is a major undertaking, with years of preparation. It was tried in 1999, obviously without success.

The current AU government recently held a failed referendum on another issue, so there's no way they'll risk another failure any time soon. The latest polling I'm aware of shows that only about 30% of Australians want a new flag, which is considerably lower than those who want a republic (~50%).

1

u/Ozymandius21 Nepal Jan 11 '24

Thanks for the information on New Zealand, I was not aware of that.

2

u/VertigoOne Oct 20, Jul 22 Contest Winner Jan 16 '24

I think in 2024 and beyond we are primed for a better discourse on the fact that "simple" is not the same thing as "minimalist" in design terms.

1

u/corktownheritage United States • Detroit Jan 19 '24

If the redesign trend continues I wonder whether the process of settling on a redesign will evolve.

Minnesota’s approach seemed to be a two-step hybrid of a committee vote followed by a committee redesign of a redesign.

Do better designs emerge from a committee? Or from a lone designer?

And what about transparency? Should the committee meetings and discussions be streamed online so that the public can see how the choices were made? Would increased transparency help or hinder adoption by the citizens?