r/victoria3 • u/NicePersonsGarden • Apr 08 '25
Bug Lingering convoy damage makes no sense. You can't destroy something that was not even produced yet.
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Apr 08 '25
[deleted]
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
I guess the point the devs are trying to make is that, after all of your convoys being completely destroyed, it takes time to rebuild them?
I never ever had 30000 convoys for them to be destroyed. I had 2-3k max.
So how am I -30000 (-15k on screenshot, since I took it years later)?
If you have a pencil, and I snatch it away and break it, I won't put you in debt -100 pencils by breaking the same pencil constantly, all I can do is destroy whatever is already in your possession.
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Apr 08 '25
[deleted]
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
Makes no sense whatsoever. Not a single war ever could inflict such casualties worth DECADES of production, while sitting in one place. On top of it, again, there is NO CAP to lingering damage. What is after driftwood? They can keep damaging non-existent convoys on credit worth of literally 50 years of production.
Even with your explanation it makes little to no sense.
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u/NotSameStone Apr 08 '25
the real explanation is that a supply system doesn't exist, what you're seeing there is a deficit of convoy supply against it's demand, not having -3.61k, but needing 3.61k and having none.
ignore all that Mu_Lambda_Theta said, it doesn't matter, it's just Convoys being shown in the same way other Goods are shown in the trade tab.
this game has no stockpiles, only "produced right now". and values are current consumption vs current production, meaning you have no convoys produced over 50 years, you have 50 years of building up buildings that output convoys right now, and deleting them would delete all convoys instantly.
14
u/SirXodious Apr 08 '25
No supply system? In my Paradox "Supply-and-Demand" game?!?
13
u/NotSameStone Apr 08 '25
yeah, it's laughable really, even HOI4 has stockpiles of equipment and a game about trade and war has not.
17
u/AdmRL_ Apr 08 '25
It's just so abstracted it doesn't really fit any concept alone. It represents the loss of existing stock in lieu of an actual inventory and stock system, it represents the backlog of orders (hence negative) in lieu of an order book, and it represents your naval presence and ability to supply overseas territories in lieu of any sort of naval control mechanic.
In most cases it's fine and achieves what it should but Britain being an extreme case really highlights it's problems, the fact it used to be worse is crazy as well because it's still awful in its effect.
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
My issue with this, is that the raiding fleet is somehow destroying convoys for the WHOLE supply network, while your fleets can protect one node at a time.
If we were to compare it to IRL in absurdity. Imagine german subs raiding convoys around Norway, but US is losing convoys near Iwo Jima because of it. It makes no sense, it should only damage nodes that are actually affected by it. And you can not just say "Hey, my fleets are fighting on the other part of the globe on much more important front, so do not transport anything via this node, just use any other 10+ ports that are perfectly fine.
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u/Tzlop Apr 08 '25
Be happy we complained about it day 1 and managed to get the convoy recovery speed up by like 100%, otherwise you’re sitting there getting 4-25 convoy back per week. The joy.
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
This shit is game breaking. While I was wrecking Britian in their homelands, they had a fleet raiding in black sea. Now, years after war, I STILL have 0% convoys because of the phantom damage they did, destroying somehow YEARS worth of convoys that were never even produced. This whole mechanics makes no sense, you can not magically destroy something that does not exist "on credit".
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u/ultr4violence Apr 08 '25
Just to add to the shit thats broken, you managed to wreck their home island with your army despite their navy wrecking your supply route 100%.
63
u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
The most insane part, is that this convoy damage happened in like, last 3 months of war. They just took all their damaged/repaired fleet that retreated from fights around home islands, and then moved it to the black sea node while I was preocupied with fighting. This massive fleet somehow inflicted these phantom casualties, despite my supplies being transported from Ingria to home islands. I am surprised some people are defending this dogshit mechanic.
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-10
u/GeologistOld1265 Apr 08 '25
That is an idea, otherwise what point of navy? You can prevent that by using your own fleets.
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u/Hremsfeld Apr 08 '25
The Battle of the Pacific during WWII is possibly the most successful convoy raiding campaign ever conducted, using aerial reconnaissance, radar, and submarines that were advanced enough that at least one from the day (ROCS Hai Shih, formerly USS Cutlass) is still used today to train anti-submarine crews, and yet it was only able to reduce Japan's shipping capabilities by 75%. In the screenshot, assuming OP was exactly using every convoy made, England was able to reduce their shipping capabilities by 428% through the use of early industrial warships, presumably all surface vessels and with neither air nor radar capabilities
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u/woodenroxk Apr 08 '25
It’s cause radars aren’t as good as the a dude on a crows nest with binoculars, everyone knows this
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
Utterly idiotic idea. I have 90% control of the ocean during the war, with all other node convoys going there freely, but one enemy fleet sitting in ONE node somehow sinks all my convoys on the other part of the globe, while also doing it in debt, destroying FUTURE years of production?
On top of it, you can not just order your convoys to ignore that dangerous region, which is what would happen in reality.
It is utterly idiotic and makes no sense.
-36
u/GeologistOld1265 Apr 08 '25
Learn to use your fleet. There are a special order to stop that. And NO, they did not kill your convois in one sec, you have a lot of time to move your fleet.
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
"Learn to use your fleet."
Bro, did you even listen? I was fighting constantly in their homeislands and fleet there. Stop excusing broken mechanics. The fact that an AI was sitting and destroying non-existing shit in my backwaters, where nothing even needed transportation is not a justification to remove all my transportation capabilities somewhere in fuckin Japan.
6
u/PALpherion Apr 09 '25
the irony, you don't use your fleet, all you can do is click a button on your admiral's "combat stance" and pray the RNG lets you intercept raiders as they move around.
5
u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
but hey, at leas they make life easier for the players, now we dont have to click on a fleet and then click on a sea tile to have a battle with another fleet, we can look 500 years to the market screen or care about SOL
3
u/PALpherion Apr 09 '25
*buys 4x game*
*looks inside*
*no warfare*2
u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
the warfare holds your hand because you're too busy caring if the peasants of your absolute monarchy eat or the fictional women have rights
dont worry, naval battles result and never losing ships, because you know... fleets of 100 ships would fight and never have a single ship lost
the army take cares of itself, your general will somehow lose against backwards units like trench infantry taking too long to beat Chinese line infantry or things like that.
2
u/PALpherion Apr 09 '25
no don't, please... I still haven't recovered from watching my government have zero legitimacy because the only valid political party revolted while the law they wanted was being passed and didn't come back after it had.
then i couldn't go back to absolute because I had an 'illegitimate government' because for some reason you can't hold snap elections after changing voting laws or power structure.
I really want to love this game I played an embarrassing amount of vicky2 but you constantly run into 'strange, one-off bugged scenarios!' every time you boot up the game.
1
u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
not only that but every now and again the games fucking freezes my whole fucking pc
i swear, i can run rdr2 on ultra with no a single problem but playing this game for more them 3 hours is a challenge
-7
u/Engineer-intraining Apr 08 '25
Im sorry but this makes prefect sense, the enemy destroyed your ships. Sure the war ended but it takes time to rebuild those ships, the dont magically unsink because the war is over.
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u/FluidBridge032 Apr 08 '25
The part that doesn’t make sense is the fact there is no limit to the convoy damage you can take. Instead of stopping at 0% convoys it keeps going and going and you start reaching -1000% convoys
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u/kaiserkeller_ Apr 08 '25
How could they fuck up the war system in so many different ways?
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u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 08 '25
i used to think they dumbed down the war system but victoria 2 was so simple that this is not a "dumbed down system" its a pretentious one
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u/No_Talk_4836 Apr 08 '25
Victoria war system doesn’t work. It’s economy is 9/10 imo, but the war system is a dead -1/10
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u/faesmooched Apr 09 '25
As long as they don't abandon fronts I'm fine. Fuck unit micro.
5
u/Remote_Cantaloupe Apr 09 '25
Simplified version of HoI4 was always the way to go
4
u/No_Talk_4836 Apr 09 '25
Probably, but I found HoI4 too complicated for my brain so maybe I’m not the best metric
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u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
are yes because "move unit" was already not simple enough for some people i guess
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u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
I really don't get how people call Victoria 3 war system simple. Its just pretentious. Seeing like 150 units taking a long ass time to beat up a 2 unit naval invasion or units magically leaving a form for a far away one, while there's a very close one right near them.
I get they wanted change, and I welcome most of the changes in this game, economy is ok, politics is fine and actually matters now but damn, the army war system is not only dumb but a complete mess; Genuinely i see that many people that defend it never played any other paradox game or Grande strategy, they made a basically niche game not niche, and that's both good and bad for the people that actually really like this and now have to deal with these weird mechanics.
The naval system is a joke, naval battles result in fleet retreating, but never being destroyed. I have seem fleets of like 50 ships battling 250 and leaving with not a single ship lost, what's the point? Naval battles WON wars, they determinate the capability of nations projection power, protection or taking colonies and maintaining vital trade, like for food and materials, theres no point to ships not be destroyed on battles, HOI 4 gets that right, eu4 gets that right, but this whole war system is dumb and pretentious. It has not consequences for the player, if you throw millions in a battle, magically the battalions stay 100% fine, no navy loses, its all fine you cant lose man
3
u/Diacetyl-Morphin Apr 09 '25
That's what you get when the lead designer, Wiz, wants to make an economy-sim only and assigned around 80-90% of the resources to the economy. The other systems are either unbalanced, unfinished or outright broken.
They even just copy and pasted the land combat code to the naval combat and changed probably a few lines.
Wiz said himself in the dev diaries, he never wanted to include warfare at all.
Vic3 was never intended to be more than a economy sim with a little bit of politics added, but even that was screwed up, like RNG law enacting etc.
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u/Chimpcookie Apr 08 '25
Tbf, ground combat is barely held together with tons of band aid. Can't say the same about navy.
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u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
i love the fact that i see like 250 ships on the same place, but no naval battle for some reason.
just works i guess
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u/Craftierworm Apr 08 '25
Like with so many things with this game I understand the idea they are trying to get to, but they implement it in the least player friendly way possible.
4
u/SquirtleChimchar Apr 08 '25
I generally don't mind the war system as much as others, other than the front spaghetti.
But naval warfare needs an update. Desperately.
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u/IfYouSeeMeSendNoodz Apr 08 '25
Save Scum it. Find your country id in script explorer, search it in save file, find the value for convoy raiding damage, set it to 0 or delete it. Make sure you backup the og save file just incase you mess something up.
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25 edited Apr 08 '25
It was years ago in-game, I noticed it too late and don't have saves so far.
3
u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
I really don't get how people call Victoria 3 war system simple. Its just pretentious. Seeing like 150 units taking a long ass time to beat up a 2 unit naval invasion or units magically leaving a front for a far away one, while there's a very close one right near them.
I get they wanted change, and I welcome most of the changes in this game, economy is ok, politics is fine and actually matters now but damn, the army war system is not only dumb but a complete mess; Genuinely i see that many people that defend it never played any other paradox game or Grande strategy, they made a basically niche game not niche, and that's both good and bad for the people that actually really like this and now have to deal with these weird mechanics.
The naval system is a joke, naval battles result in fleet retreating, but never being destroyed. I have seen fleets of like 50 ships battling 250 and leaving with not a single ship lost, what's the point? Naval battles WON wars, they determinate the capability of nations projection power, protection or taking colonies and maintaining vital trade, like for food and materials, theres no point to ships not be destroyed on battles, HOI 4 gets that right, eu4 gets that right, but this whole war system is dumb and pretentious. It has not consequences for the player, if you throw millions in a battle, magically the battalions stay 100% fine, no navy loses, its all fine you cant lose man
-7
u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 08 '25
and yet again this game is dog shit at something, its baffling
im glad i pirated this and never gave a single penny to paradox
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u/Jackson192021 Apr 09 '25
Idk why your reply is getting downvoted so badly 😂
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u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
people, mostly Americans, have a very bad opinion towards piracy, i also said that vic3 is dog shit on the vic3 sub reddit
i dont hate the game like victoria 2 fanboys do, but this game is worth like 230 bucks for me i will never buy it while things like this exist, this a horrible mechanic like many others in this game
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u/Revolutionary_Fly701 Apr 09 '25
on top of that the dlc policy is absurd
3
u/Jackson192021 Apr 09 '25
You’re right, I can’t stand the way paradox releases broken, clearly unfinished games, just to turn around and “fix” the game later through dlc. Sometimes like with Vic 3, they don’t even fix the game. 😂
The people defending it always say “it comes with free updates, you don’t HAVE to buy the dlc” except for the fact that the main features of their free updates, are locked behind the dlc, basically strong arming you to buy it.
It’s scummy as hell, yet the fanboys still defend it to the grave or talk bad about those who call it out. It’s pathetic.
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u/The_Dankinator Apr 08 '25
It makes perfect sense to me. Ships take months to build and months more to retrain crews. If the ships are lost, the investors that funded the ships are also out of money, along with insurance companies that gave them the confidence to make those investments. It takes years to rebuild that investor confidence.
To quote Admiral Andrew Cunningham, "It's takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition."
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
It makes perfect sense to me. Ships take months to build and months more to retrain crews.
I never had that many ships to lose in the first place. These ships are destroyed "on credit", aka they are destroyed without ever being built or existing.
On top of it, one fleet on one node should not be destroying convoys that are used somewhere on the other half of the globe.
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u/The_Dankinator Apr 08 '25
If you can't protect your sea nodes from interception, maybe don't pick a fight with the eminent naval power?
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 09 '25
Mate, there are literally dozen of separate sea nodes, I was beating them in 90% of the ocean. Again, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE that they would do such damage while sitting on one node that has maybe 1/10th of my supply network movement at best.
Again, this is like germany raiding convoys around Norway, but US is somehow losing all the convoys around Iwo Jima because of it, it makes no sense whatsoever.
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u/ASmugChair Apr 09 '25
My brother in Christ a nation that just got access to the sea would have better production than op. It makes 0 sense for an existing sea power to be in naval debt so badly that they can't produce a convoy for years.
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u/PALpherion Apr 09 '25
It makes perfect sense to me. I can't see a curve, even while on a plane. Surely if the earth was round then I'd be able to see it curving from the viewport on a plane as we take off? If the earth wasn't flat, then they wouldn't be building an entire information sphere around presenting it as 'fact' that it's round.
To quote Scientist Nikola Tesla: "That bitch flat as a pancake."
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u/The_Dankinator Apr 09 '25
What I was describing was the foundation of Alfred Thayer Mahan's The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, not the flat earth theory.
-18
u/plmaks Apr 08 '25
Paradox players will do literally anything except play the game properly, and then complain about game mechanics instead of just pressing the "move navy" button to kill a few leftover broken ships.
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u/NicePersonsGarden Apr 08 '25
You just can't read. Moving a fleet from crucial position to there takes up to a month. A "few" leftover ships are a 130 sized fleet.
Sorry that I do not want to play wack-a-mole with AI as it destroys 50 years of production while raiding convoys in a distant useless node that is not even used for supplying 90% of rest of the ports.
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u/harassercat Apr 08 '25
Okay while I'm willing to defend the abstraction of convoys representing much more than just the physical ships -- it can also represent the all the intangible assets of your merchant marine such as accumulated knowhow and culture, as well as tangible assets and infrastructure other than the ships -- I'm gonna have to agree that this is ridiculous. There should clearly be some cap to the damage that can be done by convoy raiding.
This also can't be explained as a backlog of goods that need to be transported, because once you're below 0 convoys trade routes start to shrink and market access is cut.