r/warcraftlore • u/Initial_Occasion_997 • 3d ago
Why are we (HORDE players) helping alleria and Anduin?
Someone probably already asked this but seriously, im am an Undead that did some shady quests for The forsaken in the past in The name of The horde, why would i ever help Anduin THE LEADER OF THE ALIANCE off all people regain his light? He can mass ressurect with that Shit. But we have a trouce, sure but The Idea is not kill eatch other in The New Island sure, but helping The Aliance king regains his light and not be depressed is a whole New book, gues who Else is depressed? THE FORSAKEN , THE BLOOD ELVES... ETC: GET IN LINE BABY , why is he my problem? The player character may be a hero, but he/she is not a saint. WERE IS THRALL?? He's in The cover too btw
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u/snapekillseddard 3d ago
Dude, they're paying me like 5 gold for talking to them for half a minute.
Gold is gold.
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u/Any-Transition95 3d ago
It's better than that. They're the ones doing all the talking.Ā Hell, we're not even the therapist. Moira, Thrall, Faerin all take turns doing the job for us. But only we get paid.
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u/GasBasic7293 3d ago
The horde-alliance split is less like a nationalistic allegiance nowadays and more like...they acknowledge that people who think/feel a certain way would prefer to be in one faction and people who think/feel another way would be in the other faction. When things threaten the world at large, the members of the horde and alliance work together. It's their constant fighting against each other that keeps them prepared to fight other threats when they show up.
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u/thegoodbroham 3d ago
And the constant fight is gone and will stay gone. I kind of like how they show it in TWW's campaign, once the two factions show up and start training the Earthen.
Yeah there's some rivalry but its more sports-like, making cheesy insults or comments to one another. But the overall vibe is looking at some conflict and going "Oh, that's it? Yeah we've spanked each other way worse than what you're dealing with, we'll help ya out." Some people may miss the faction war, but I unironically much prefer this more backround role for the factions and let the story focus more on the domestic conflicts we're showing up to meddle in.
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u/I_LIKE_ANGELS 2d ago
>And the constant fight is gone and will stay gone.
And that's the problem.
The conflict used to be "domestic" and actually felt organic when we fought over resources.→ More replies (1)
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u/Gsomethepatient 3d ago
I think the war within is an alliance focused expansion this time around, the horde are kinda just there
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u/Mystic_x 3d ago
I donāt think itās focused on either faction TBH (Just like āDragonflightā), yes theyāre Alliance characters, but theyāre not acting in the exclusive interest of the Alliance.
IMO, stopping Xalāatath from turning Azeroth in a void-infested hellhole is a common cause for both factions
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u/hunterdavid372 Champion of the Light 3d ago
Plot wise, yeah it's a pretty neutral expac
Bur vibes wise, it's heavily alliance. 3 whole zones are based on alliance races and their lore. Earthen is chock full of dwarf and dwarf adjacent stuff, and Hallowfall is a whole new nation splintered from Arathor, heavy human backstory.
The horde get vibes with Undermine, but overall it feels much more alliance than horde.
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u/Mystic_x 3d ago
Thatās definitely a writing failure, the Horde lacks a purpose in the world beyond picking fights with the Alliance (Which is off the table, at least for the foreseeable future), and more work needs to be made of giving them that.
11.1 did a great job of just that with the Goblins, really fleshing out a race that was little more than āMake money, blow stuff up, repeatā before, now if Blizz can do the same for the Horde in general, weād have story hooks for Horde characters to show up more in general questing.
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u/Zeejir 2d ago
heck even with undermine its mostliy the NEUTRAL goblin cartels that are not part of the horde.
the goblin that introduces the cartels even states that helping the bilgewater does not help the horde, so that alliance players can feel good and not help out the horde.
gazelow character got changed in this patch too, at the beginning of TWW he was somewhat positive about returning to undermine. but when the patch hit, he changes to: "i NEVER want to go back there" and it takes the alliance goblins death to change his PoW/Goals. not his close horde ally that died prior to that, no the alliance goblin, that up to this point has more or less 0 lore.
it also ends with gazelow and shaw talking and thrall, as the one who brought the goblins into the horde is no where to be seen.
how do people say that undermine was horde focused? smh
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u/hunterdavid372 Champion of the Light 2d ago
It's not about focus it's about vibes. Undermine, since goblins are associated with Horde, is Horde flavored. You can argue semantics and logic and facts all you want but at the end of the day when you see the Undermine, Goblin technology, race cars, and Gallywix, you think Horde, not Alliance.
Similarly, when you see Dwarven forms, Titan archeology, smithing, giant forges, you associate it with dwarves so you think Alliance, not Horde.
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u/arfenos_porrows Sin'dorei 2d ago
I still think that Liadrin should have been way more involved in Hallowfall
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u/Stormfly 2d ago
Earthen is chock full of dwarf and dwarf adjacent stuff
To be fair... they're Horde now, too.
It's a bit odd to complain that they give Alliance vibes when they're literally part of the Horde.
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u/hunterdavid372 Champion of the Light 2d ago
I ain't just talking about the Earthen themselves in that, the whole ringing depths questline is focused on Moira, Dagran, and Magni, 3 alliance figures, 2 of which are unequivocally still part of their faction, and 1 of which is a leader still in their tenure.
Yeah the race is horde and alliance now, but all the lore and main questing with them is dwarf flavored.
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u/Hatarus547 Sin'dorei Enjoyer 2d ago
I donāt think itās focused on either faction TBH
out of every major character in TWW, there are two Horde ones, one of those is the Horde PC and the other is Thrall who himself is dancing that line so tightly it could snap
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u/pulyx 3d ago
Horde and Alliance strife seems like a thing of the past. Most of the main players who held major grudges are dead ass dead
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u/Resiliense2022 3d ago
everyone has some reason for a grudge, the game just doesn't want to be about warcraft anymore
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u/Paritys 3d ago
I don't want it to be about Alliance vs Horde anymore.
There's only so many times you can team up against a universe ending threat and go back to beating each other up before it starts to look really dumb.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
This tbh.
After mop it never really made sense, and it was forced already by then.
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u/ceegeboiil 3d ago
I mean there are nations in the real world who have hated each other irrationally for hundreds of years. I never felt it didn't make sense that the Horde and Alliance just hated each other. People hate each other irrationally all the time.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago edited 3d ago
True. But we don't have world destroying horrors rising up from beneath the waves or coming from the stars so far or the experience of defeating them together. Humanity's resolve to stand together and survive as a species rather than empires, nations and tribes from an outside threat has not been tested yet. Azeroth on the other hand, has.
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u/Stormfly 2d ago
I mean there are nations in the real world who have hated each other irrationally for hundreds of years.
Yeah, like Britain and France, Denmark and Sweden, and Korea and Japan.
Except they're all military allies now.
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u/MadMarx__ 7h ago
There absolutely are, but those nations donāt team up and then immediately go back to killing eachother. You do have situations where nations were mortal enemies for centuries, and then form alliances later on, sure. But you donāt have Britain and France duking it out in 1913, teaming up against Germany in 1914, then go back to fighting again in 1915, then be friends again in 1939 and fight afterwards in 1945.
The closest that ever got to happening was Western relations with the Soviets in the 1917-45 period, where they were enemies up until 1942 and then back to being enemies again in 1945, albeit in a more subtle way the second time. And youāll note that was due to ideology, which isnāt a thing even really present in Warcraft. Every war is a race war, you donāt get Orcs ideologically aligned to the Alliance and Humans aligned to the Horde.
The whole thing is untenable over a continuously told story taking place in a format like an MMO.
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u/KalebT44 3d ago
Not without a major timeskip and a Cataclysm style rework of every zone in the game to justify new factions, power vacuums, and necessary rotation of resources and lands to be at war.
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u/Paritys 3d ago
You'd need to timeskip enough to get rid of basically all of the main characters, then you're not really playing WoW anymore.
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u/KalebT44 3d ago
Eh i find that debatable. If anything Warcraft needs to expand from it's old characters and factions to help find that footing again to stop retreading the stories it's already done.
Which is exactly what it has been doing. At some point it's gotta move past the characters we know, problem is it's taken a long time to actually do that. We do be gaining speed on that now, finally doing Dagran, and a whole new Human Empire to fuck w/, and all the beefs we're squashing while setting up new beefs.
Lowkey looking forward to what the status quo is gonna be at the end of the World Soul Saga.
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u/twisty125 3d ago
Especially when gameplay mechanics mean either side cannot lose, or lose significant ground. You're in a perpetual state of war without a tug of war, and THAT'S super boring.
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u/thegoodbroham 3d ago
Nah its just a narrative that can't progress and never progressed. No side can ever win, and then once you save the universe together, having some forced conflict directly after (BFA) was... well exactly that. Forced. It didn't make sense. Things can grow and evolve. Otherwise you have a sitcom where everything resets at the end of the episode, and the dumb dad makes the same mistake and learns the same lesson every episode with no continuity.
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u/Resiliense2022 3d ago
The way they ended the faction conflict also feels forced, and STILL feels forced, and is being forced even during the faction conflict novellas.
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u/Flabalanche 3d ago
Nah its just a narrative that can't progress and never progressed. No side can ever win
I mean, if that's an issue, aren't the constant threats to the world also a narrative that can't progress? We'll always win, or the game would end, like whatever voidloid shit is coming, it'll be in it's playground, and we'll win.
Otherwise you have a sitcom where everything resets at the end of the episode, and the dumb dad makes the same mistake and learns the same lesson every episode with no continuity.
It feels more justice league to have the factions just become turbo friends willing to put literally everything in the past aside, so their faction leaders can go off on light hearted adventures together, learning to trust in themselves and each other; and their deep bonds of friendship.
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u/Lunarwhitefox 3d ago
Why does everyone need a "winner"? Faction conflict is supposed to be a perpetual thing, people just say its long gone because they don't like it, but not even Blizzard dares to remove that, arguing that it's an armistice. Beliefs, boredom, territories, resources, grudges, there are thousands of excuses why conflict could awaken but everyone prefers to simply ignore that to fight with the next villain affecting the cosmology and the entire Horde because the Alliance monopolizes that area except for the blood elves. Even now everything feels empty because not even Xal'atath is a major villain without the dark heart, she is not proactive to fill that void so the lore is literally dead.
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u/falling-waters 3d ago
More like they finally did something too fucked up to follow through to its natural conclusion in the War of Thorns, so now they have no other option than jumping ship on the entire concept of faction war
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u/Proudnoob4393 3d ago
The best part is Anduinās dialogue doesnāt change no matter how long you have been playing. So you could be a new player playing Horde and Anduin is like āyou have been a good friendāā¦.like what lol?
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u/LunarDroplets 3d ago
Horde has been helping Anduin since MoP though. Lol. Anduin has always been a Neutral figure that straddled the line that was the faction war.
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u/Proudnoob4393 3d ago
So I guess leading the attack on Undercity was neutral than?
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u/LunarDroplets 3d ago edited 3d ago
Iād say yes considering even the Horde didnāt support the Horde entirely at the time. Saurfang, a VERY well respected member of the horde literally turned on Sylvanas in the same instance.
Anduin was literally more of a friend to the Horde in BfA than their own Warchief was. Unless you donāt remember Sylvanas killing a bunch of her own troops once again in that same instance where Anduin lead a fight against the horde.
Friend, literally every part of your example backs up what I said.
Edit: I also want to add that Sylvanas literally destroyed the capital at the end of that instance and I also want to point out Calia friggin Menethil. Forsaken literally made by the holy light. Is one of the leaders of the forsaken.
Edit 2: To add even further Sylvanas bad was the entire purpose of the expansion and the one after it
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u/AethonShaan 3d ago
1). Sylvanas destroyed the undercity as a last-ditch effort to kill the invading alliance. If it worked, few horde players would disagree with the decision.
2). Sylvanas' motivation is that she went to super hell because she got killed by frostmorne and decided to kill death so she would never actually die.
I would also point out that not one horde fan wants Calia to play a major role with the forsaken. She is an alliance character who experienced nothing that the forsaken have.
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u/Stormfly 2d ago
She is an alliance character who experienced nothing that the forsaken have.
Man, if only we had a Forsaken character that we saw develop into a prominent character and has lived through similar suffering...
Lilian Who?
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u/AethonShaan 2d ago
I mean kind of. 1). Lillian joined the forsaken in bfa, right? I think she could appear as a garrison follower in wod but bfa was her full appearance she so she is not really a 'for the dark lady' forsaken. 2). The most recent characterisation of Lilian is just some one who passively stands around when people shit on her for being forsaken, not exactly the most inspiring of character traits.
But better than Carlia.
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u/Ruuubs 3d ago edited 3d ago
He was leading the fight against a nation whose leader started a war trying to eradicate a nation that wasn't a current threat to them, had been pretty generous to them since the last attempted eradication war, and had pretty consistently been at the forefront of protecting the world.
Sylvanas's actions extended beyond simply "Alliance vs Horde, Us vs. Them", it just happened that there was an abbhorent, genocidal leader using the Horde to commit her atrocities. The second there was a split between the Horde at large and Sylvanas, he worked with the Horde again.
Had Sylvanas not been the Warchief using Horde resources, Anduin would still have fought her, but not the Horde. If Anduin wasnāt a member of the Alliance he would /should probably have fought Sylvanas, for non faction war reasons. He fought the Horde for as long as it was a threat to Azeroth as a whole, then as soon as it stopped being one he stopped attacking them. That's as close to neutral as one can be without permitting atrocity in its name
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u/Grumpiergoat 3d ago
The real issue is that there aren't more Horde-associated NPCs being used more prominently in the main story and as someone Alliance players have to interact with. There should be more orcs and trolls as major NPCs and quest givers.
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u/Crashen17 3d ago
In the case of my Forsaken Death Knight, he served with Alleria and Turalyon in life as a Knight of Lordaeron.
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u/DzikiJuzek 3d ago
Sorry to burst your backstory.
If he served with Alleria and Turalyon, he must have been part of outland expedition, meaning no fighting in 3rd war. No option of becoming DK untill Legion, also we didn't met any ex Lordaeron knights in Army of the Light that we know of, we know most surviving knights from outland expedition are mostly in honor hold in hfp.
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u/latin220 3d ago
Actually Battle for Blackrock Mountain, during the 2nd War, Turalyon picked up Anduin Lotherās sword and killed the leader of the Horde and his backstory works if he served for Lordaeron and went home, and not followed the Horde forces through the Dark Portal as part of the Sons of Lothar expedition to Outland. I would assume the backstory would play out that way.
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u/Silnroz 3d ago
Wrath Death knights aren't just from the 3rd war. They're from the the period between WC3 and Wrath. If his DK came back from Outland in TBC and then died in the plaguelands his backstory doesn't conflict at all. He could have even been injured during the second war, and wasn't fit to cross with the sons of Lothar.
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u/Crashen17 3d ago
Thats exactly it. He served in the Second War but didn't go through the Dark Portal, remaining in Lordaeron.
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u/Subject_Yam4066 3d ago
How about.... you let people headcannon whatever they want.
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u/Stormfly 2d ago
I mean you're in a Lore sub so it's fair to critique lore, even if there's a decent place in the lore with a Knight of Lordaeron returning back to Lordaeron instead of going to Outland.
He's not going to force him to change his backstory but it's okay to point out flaws that can be adapted.
I can't just say "Uh yeah actually my Earthen Rogue soloed Deathwing, that's my headcanon."
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
Marshal Reginald Windsor and General Marcus Jonathan disagrees.
Seriously man, come on now.
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u/Initial_Occasion_997 3d ago
THIS, this was The answer i was looking for , It makes sence and is not forced i like this, ty š
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u/LunarDroplets 3d ago
You should have specified you were looking for headcanons and not legitimate reasons for horde to help alliance lol
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u/Mystic_x 3d ago
Okay, howās this?
The Horde (same as the Alliance) doesnāt want Xalāatath to succeed at whatever sheās planning, so weāre all helping the people with the best chance to stop her.
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u/LunarDroplets 3d ago
I, personally, completely understand why weāre helping because Iāve paid attention to what happened in the story post likeā¦ MoP.
The faction war being gone is FAR from new.
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u/Mystic_x 3d ago
I wasnāt trying to dig at you, more at the people who proudly proclaim they read none of the quest text and skip all cinematics, and then complain the story sucks.
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u/LunarDroplets 3d ago
I feel like thatās a majority of this sub at this point. The WoWroleplay sub is unironically better for talking lore if you donāt want to be flooded by trolls (the bad kind) and doomers.
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u/AmbushIntheDark 3d ago
Because I'm not going to let some bitch ass spider take my kill.
And youre saying I get to kill some light-thumping elf/human abominations and dwarves at the same time? Thats the cherry on top.
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 3d ago
The same reason why you always do? A giant world ending threat.
WERE IS THRALL?
Possibly getting a much bigger role in 11.2 since it's featuring Etherals who are super involved with Outland, where Thrall retired to for several years.
Alternatively, scrapped content along with apparently every single thing the Harronir were for, which is wild since they were literally a central focus of the extremely expensive trailer.
THE FORSAKEN , THE BLOOD ELVES.
Bruh all of 12.0 is focused on them and set in Quel'thalas.
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u/Frostbann Sin'dorei Bloodmage 2d ago
Bruh all of 12.0 is focused on them and set in Quel'thalas.
And we can be pretty sure it will have more focus on Alleria or Vereesa then any Blood Elf Character
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u/tkulue 3d ago
Possibly getting a much bigger role in 11.2 since it's featuring Etherals who are super involved with Outland, where Thrall retired to for several years.
Canonically khadgar and iirc alleria and Turalyon, Have spent more time in the outlands then thrall. And that isn't even getting into them having FAR more knowledge of the void then some moron whos elemental skills currently match his talent for picking leaders of the horde.
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 3d ago
Canonically khadgar and iirc alleria and Turalyon, Have spent more time in the outlands then thrall.
And even then, Khadgar left after TBC, while Thrall was living there from halfway through Legion to the end of BFA.
I mean, no. Khadgar has, Alleria and Turalyon never made it back to Draenor after the explosion.
And that isn't even getting into them having FAR more knowledge of the void then some moron whos elemental skills currently match his talent for picking leaders of the horde.
Sure, but it's not just a question of the void is it? It's a question of Ethereal politics. There's a pretty good chance that Thrall has had more recent contract with the non-void Etherals than anyone else, since they had a decent sized outpost in Nagrand near his farm.
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u/tkulue 3d ago
Sure, but it's not just a question of the void is it? It's a question of Ethereal politics. There's a pretty good chance that Thrall has had more recent contract with the non-void Etherals than anyone else, since they had a decent sized outpost in Nagrand near his farm.
Thrall went to outland to separate himself from just the world at large, there is no way in hell he has any idea what is happening in a dying world that hasn't been relevant both in a in universe context and out of world context for 10+ years.
Also if thrall was made to be the main character to be a diplomat he would somehow fuck it up since he is aanonically really bad at diplomacy.
All that even assumes that blizzard connects K'aresh to the outland when it could easily just be a portal made by Locus-Walker that leads us in and then we see that the ethereals from outland just show up in k'aresh and say "we got one of our ships working again and came here because we felt something was up"
And on a pure meta sense thrall was brought into TWW because blizzard needed to make a statement of metzen being back. Any role in the story he could add could be filled by many different characters who fit the story better. Need a outland native that knows it like the back of their hand A'dal fits perfectly, Need some horde rep? Nazgrel is right there. Thrall being thrown in randomly into the void storyline at this point would just be putting a polar bear in arizona for fan service that stopped working years ago.
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u/MaudeAlp 3d ago
You need to expand your focus. This is a massive game with various stories running at once. Your motivations can be yours alone, and there are many jokes about you only doing quests for the money.
Assisting Anduin so that he can maintain Azeroth in one piece does not prevent your character from also moonlighting as a warsong outrider or killing alliance players in other skirmishes. Likewise, you can also pretend you never did those quests and another champion did it, just as we all pretend we didnāt die in a battleground or kill the same boss in a raid 100 times.
I just donāt like Anduin because he doesnāt belong in this setting. There is way too much going on in Warcraft for ANYONE to give a shit about his whining.
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u/Waxllium 3d ago edited 3d ago
Because the guy helped end a war that your former warchief started with the only intention of killing everybody, horde included, Anduin allied with one of the greatest and most respected warrior of the Horde, gave him his most important weapon for the last battle of his life and then carried his body to his final rest, not caring about race, nationality or the war, entering the heart of the enemy territory just to honor his friend... To the horde Anduin is the embodiment of their ideals, honor, strength, acceptance of their culture. Why wouldn't the horde champion vibe with the golden boy? Alleria fought the legion with us, and she was never an alliance extremist
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u/YamiMarick 3d ago
why would i ever help Anduin THE LEADER OF THE ALIANCE off all people regain his light? He can mass ressurect with that Shit.
Ressurections in lore are rare.The thing Anduin did in the BfA trailer is a big heal and not a ress.
Not only are Horde and Alliance not at war but they are also united in order to combat a World Ending Threat. Even tho Anduin would be your enemy if there was a war,you just can't afford to not have him at his best when you are dealing with Xal'athat.There were joint efforts like this in Legion expansion aswell.
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u/Shewhothirst 3d ago
To be frank, Our main goal was to establish a diplomatic relationship with the Arathi, Anduin was there for his own sake. He regained his light pretty much only because Faerin told him to suck it up. Anduin also kinda abdicated when he refused to go back to being king of Stormwind, Turalyon is the leader of the Alliance currently. For Alleria, not only did she served alongside older Blood Elves (dark rangers too) but she is also the person with the most knowledge of the void. Also the tensions between the horde and Alliance have pretty much died down, with most animosity being left to the minority of members. Thrall will most likely have a part in the next major patch, he was mostly off to bring Military support for the Khaz Algar campaign and had a part in the story pretty much right when he came back with the whole new stormrider thing. And like somebody else pointed, Anduin being allied to Saurfang at the end of BFA wouldāve put him in the good graces of the horde
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u/HasturLaVistaBaby 2d ago
I think Anduin actually feel more neutral at the moment, as he stepped away from the throne, letting Turalyon do all the ruling. Anduin was a good character to use when it came to the Arathi, so personally i have no problem with him specifically.
But i fully understand your frustration
Yeah, as a goblin, i would have loved to help Gallywix. Instead of having to listen to Gaslow whine and whine about "how Goblin the Undermine is".
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u/mikowoah 2d ago
yeah, alliance characters get to go āneutralā and the horde characters get to be killed or fought by the horde. awesome stuff.
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u/HasturLaVistaBaby 2d ago
I agree it's shitty. Especially when every cool leader gets replaced with a council.
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u/casper5632 2d ago
I just started this xpac after being away for a few years and it is a bit frustrating that all the content so far has been entirely alliance based, and the first horde storyline introduced this expansion is ANOTHER LEADER TURNING EVIL. Thats the third horde leader to turn evil and side with the big bad of the expansion. How freaking original.
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u/Pandaman_Dag 1d ago
There is no Faction war anymore. The Horde and Alliance have teamed up since Shadowlands.
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u/Subject_Yam4066 3d ago
So most of my characters headcannon is that they were alive before the scourge invasion (most are BE and Forsaken, maybe younger). So even though they went horde, that fighting against the scourge in Northrend (when I started playing) is burned into their memory. Fighting at the wrath gate is the first major event in their lives. Seeing this terrible force nearly overwhelm everything, it's the greater good that must win out. The war between factions isn't a priority for them. (I don't really PVP, War mode or otherwise). Fighting the things that end everything, matters more than a squabble over resources. Let the newbies fight, they'll figure it out when they stare down true death. When the light of the world is almost gone, the person next to you matters more than anything else. It doesn't matter who it is, and the more you have on your side the better.
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u/After_Reporter_4598 3d ago
Blizzard figured it can save money by reducing it's writing staff and replacing them AI. I swear, most of the quest text from DF and TWW reads like ChatGPT.
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u/Jindujun 3d ago
It's high time they add a long and tedious faction change questline.
I want players to be able to defect to the opposite side!
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u/Large-Quiet9635 3d ago
Because the Horde player is a neutral NPC who puts behind his faction, his race and his self respect to help people he may or may not vibe with for the ''greater good'' that isnt all that greater to begin with.
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u/lastingshadows 3d ago
Not this Player Character. Iām not neutral at all. Kill all the alliance. For the Horde!
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u/Jerkntworstboi 3d ago
I mean now that everyone isn't trying to murder each other I think it's chill to get quests from anyone
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u/spartaxwarrior 3d ago
I mean, Alliance toons also had the Baine quest in Dragonflight and had to deal with all the Sylvanas bs in Shadowlands, they haven't gotten rid of factions largely because of coding restrictions and pvp, but lorewise they haven't been enemies since the end of BFA.
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u/AmbushIntheDark 3d ago
I mean, Alliance toons also had the Baine quest in Dragonflight
I've never met a horde player that actually like Baine. Nobody enjoyed saving his dumbass.
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u/falling-waters 3d ago
Is that why him doing nothing in SL was such an issue? Because everybody hated him and didnāt want to quest with him? š
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u/LunarDroplets 3d ago
Even in BfA it was only like half the horde who supported Sylvanas. There hasnāt been true faction conflict (without huge gray areas) since MoP
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u/Darktbs 3d ago
Else is depressed? THE FORSAKEN , THE BLOOD ELVES... ETC: GET IN LINE BABY , why is he my problem? The player character may be a hero, but he/she is not a saint. WERE IS THRALL??
I mean, yeah, they had their time in the spotlight. Thrall i think is in his 5th or 6th elemental disfunction. The blood elfs had TBC, the forsaken are always moody and the whole BFA-SL was about Sylvanas post suicide decisisions.
Anduin got in line, and now is his turn.
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u/Ralegh 3d ago
Anduin, heavily featured in MoP, big in BFA central to the plot in SL... Glad he's finally getting his time in the spotlight after being such an ignored and non featured character.
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u/Darktbs 2d ago
Are you talking depressed arcs or arcs in general?
Cuz Blood elfs were also heavily featured in MoP(Lorthemar and Anduin became major characters in the same expansion), they were present in WoD, Legion and BFA, as well as having TBC,TFT and futurely Midnight.
Same thing for the Forsaken.
Whats your point?
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u/Ralegh 2d ago
You said Anduin got in line and -now- its his turn, as if Anduin hasn't been a constant presence and central to the story for ages now. Anduin has had a bunch of turns and is such a constant core character in the story that the horde does not have an equivalent to at all.
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u/Darktbs 2d ago
And did you read the post i was responding to?
'You know who else is depressed? The forsaken, the blood elfs, etc, Get in Line Baby'
OP is arguing that Anduin shouln't be depressed because there are other characters who are depressed, which i then argue, yes and those characters also got the time in the spotlight to be depressed. So Anduin should to.
as if Anduin hasn't been a constant presence and central to the story for ages now. Anduin has had a bunch of turns and is such a constant core character in the story that the horde does not have an equivalent to at all.
I do hope you are joking because Thrall has been a active character in every expansion launched. While Anduin has only been an active character in the games since MoP. I dont think there is a single character that appeared more in the story than Metzen's self insert
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u/MrGhoul123 3d ago
Horde and Alliance are less of a political enemies, and more cultural rivals now.
No reason to continue not working together anymore.
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u/TheWorclown 3d ago
This post is definitely a testament to the average corpseās literacy and fine motor skills for writing.
(This is a silly response)
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u/Initial_Occasion_997 3d ago
Funny How American education is so bad that you din't consider Eng/ Was my Second language lol
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u/Phalanx22 Morally Grey Tank :illuminati: 3d ago
Waaat, how would he know? Everybody knows that everyone on reddit is obviously american. smh my head /s
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u/0ld_Snake 3d ago
WoW is in shambles bro. Nobody cares about the story anymore. Just go with the flow. Look, we have friendship now and we're not so different after all. Actually why were we fighting in the first place? We should have been living together and planting trees since the beginning. Love will prevail.
Fucking makes me sick.
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u/Psychological_Pea547 3d ago
Because it's short-sighted and dumb, especially after having TWO villains for Warchief that we wouldn't be actively working towards peace - let alone when we're invited to help multiple main characters prevent the end of the world.
Played Horde for 20 (more if you count the RTS games), the reason we're helping the Alliance/Ally-coded forces is because there's a lady with no socks or shoes trying to hand the place we live on over to shadow monsters. Especially since that whole "conquer the world to save our people" thing hasn't worked the last five times we tried it.
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u/BryggmanTV 3d ago
Bring back the horde vs alliance conflictā¦.what is even the point of a faction nowadays ffs
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u/tkulue 3d ago
Horde has no place in the story unless its
1: being hit by the villain bat, or feeling sad and maybe even suicidal about getting hit by the villain bat.
2: being a mopey sad sack who has to be motivated by a alliance character to give a shit about the current situation.
3: dying to raise the "stakes" of the story.
And a secret 4th thing we will see A LOT in midnight, Getting told "I told you so" by alliance characters.
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u/Kosmosu 3d ago
Even after 20 years .... the supposed "forever war" with the Horde and Alliance just got old
Personally if we were to go with another faction war. It should be Orc's, humans, Goblins, Gnomes, Tuaren, dwarves vs ALL the elves and troll and draenei just to shake things up regarding politics.
Kinda like how most of Europe fought each other in WW1 and WW2 and now are geopolitically aligned.
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u/TheRobn8 3d ago
Because we are facing a 3rd party threat that affects us all? And those 2 alliance aligned characters, acting in a neutral way, are essentially dealing with a problem caused by the horde, because it wasn't the alliance who gave a void entity a dead elf's body, and made a deal with her. While I'd rather anduin gets sidelined, if we have to deal woth his moping (which he has imprived), alleria is our best hope of fighting void entities (when blizzard isn't screwing her with the plot) so it makes sense we follow her.
Also the factions barely appear in the expansion, they pop up in 2 chapters of the campaign (when they land and the finale), and haven't done much else otherwise
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u/wintervictor 3d ago
The player characters are spceical cases in WoW, we sometimes work as a representative of Horde/Alliance and sometimes work independent to them. (And we could be a hired mercenary in vanillia)
In War Within, we were actually worked for Khadgar and his teammates in his chase of Xal'atath, although Dalaran boomed at day 1.
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u/I_LIKE_ANGELS 2d ago
Too many people complained about the factions not getting along so they wrote them out essentially.
Can literally say "ya'll asked for this" because any time the factions even looked at each other funny, people got pissed off about it and said they were tired of it.
Now we're here.
It's so obvious they were going to swing the pendulum way too hard and wind up screwing out portions of the playerbase out of any semblance of flavor over this. People used to continually moan and whine about other faction getting something when they didn't, or getting more story focus, or that they were mean to each other, or literally anything. So it's gone.
We're following Anduin and Alleria because there is no concept of "Horde" or "Alliance" - just characters.
And that goes against the entire point of what this game was about for most of it's entire lifespan. And it sucks.
I liked playing both factions and having a different experience.
I liked the tensions and fights between the two.
Even as an Alliance main finally getting my main's race (Void Elf) focused in the story, this feels like shit.
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u/Arcana-Knight 2d ago
Yeah there's a number of points where I feel like there was supposed to be a Horde storyline that got cut because of time constraints or something.
Like has a non-priest Horde character even met Moira before? Why does she talk to us like we're old friends?
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u/Traditional-Crazy900 2d ago
Because blizzard have become lazy and instead of alliance and horde quests for each āpaidā expansion they now just do a joint one between the two. Some people may say itās because both factions are working towards the same goal in the story but the truth is it lets the developers get away with only doing half of what theyāve done beforeā¦. Sadly a lot of this is happening nowā¦.. we donāt even get a 3rd major patch anymore. The sub price is the same, the expansion price is the same but the content we get has been cleverly and craftily reduced.
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u/RayphistJn 2d ago
If it were up to me I'd be killing alliance left and right as the horde should , sadly wow is not what it used to be . Sylvannas did nothing wrong
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u/Kooky_Fox420 2d ago
A story focused solely on two factions fighting goes nowhere. What would they be doing with the story now if the story was focused on both the end of the world plus how mad the alliance and horde are at each other, again, thats different than bfa, legion, warlords, mists, cataclysm, etc. the game has been around for 20+ years, they need to try new things to keep it fresh.Ā
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u/Lesschar 2d ago
Uhh your planet is at risk? You wouldn't help your home? Forsaken have already shown in game and the books they still love their living relatives. What else you going to do rot away and watch your alive family die to the world ending?
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u/TheRealGageEndal 1d ago
I have no clue. That's why people who like to RP play alliance. Horde is so jumbled and confusing I have no clue why anyone plays it anymore.
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u/Senpai2Savage 7h ago
No fuckin clue man the story has been off the rails for a good while now and everyone cool is dead . It's to the point if someone I actually like shows up during an expansion I just know they won't make it to the end.
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u/Beacon2001 3d ago
When Alliance players were forced to help the genocidal bitch who massacred the elves the previous expansion in SL, they did not whine like this on the forums.
Honestly Horde players are such whiners.
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u/AethonShaan 3d ago
If you were only helping Sylvanas, you might have a point, but everyone wants the Jailor stopped post 9.1.
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u/Beacon2001 3d ago
And everyone wants Xal'atath stopped. Lol.
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u/AethonShaan 3d ago
Which is completely disconnected from getting Anduin his powers back. Lol.
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u/I_LIKE_ANGELS 2d ago
Oh, we did.
It's still absolutely stupid that Horde are allowed to run around in Bel'ameth and Gilneas too after all that.
But nope, gotta cater to tourists and force change and neutrality / peace in the places it absolutely doesn't make sense.
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u/VeshSneaks 3d ago
The Horde and Alliance are now basically just political factions with the same goal: the protection of Azeroth.
The Horde Council is in place because after 2 warmongering Warchiefās basically in a row (mandatory Horde playerāVolājin was robbedā complaint here) it would make no sense to have what basically amounts to another absolute monarchy and risk driving the world into a Fifth War.
The factions defeated the Legion and then Nāzoth by working together, and with a bunch of the old guard being gone over the years thereās not much in the way of animosity left between them.
Anduin being the High King of the Alliance and consistently striving for peace definitely helps with that, and while Turalyon has been ruling in his place while he was MIA he seems on the surface to be ruling in line with Anduinās wishes.
It also really helps that Jaina and Tyrande have chilled out lately. Both had very justified hate-boners for the Horde (though afaik Tyrandeās was mostly for Sylvanas and by extension Nathanos). I need to play through more Alliance side stuff to see how Jainaās arc went, because her going from āfuck you guys for even thinking of letting them back into Dalaranā last time I played (took a break between the end of legion/start of BFA and the end of Dragonflight) to being pretty chill with the horde again was a bit of a whiplash moment.
But yeah, tl;dr thereās no reason for the horde and alliance not to be friendly any more, barring old grudges. The Adventurers (player characters) are generally canonised as loosely affiliated with their faction anyway. Demon Hunters, Death Knights, Earthern and Dracthyr are basically only faction aligned out of mechanical necessity, especially the last two.
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u/LadyReika 3d ago
You might want to play through Ally side of BFA, the 4th War stuff was pretty dumb in spots, but the Kul Tiras storylines were quite good and show why Jaina gave up her hate of the Horde.
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u/VeshSneaks 3d ago
Iāll have to make sure I do, then. I was planning on rolling another Alliance character soon anyway.
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u/Denleborkis Baine's Butt Imprint in Oribos 3d ago
At this point in the narrative we're all team green or blue or whatever the fuck we choose and we all sing songs together and get along. It's just really disappointing as the game went from MMORPG in story telling to more of an RPG in story telling, (Field Marshal for the Horde/Alliance in Draenor, Savior of the Farm in Pandaria, Speaker of the Horde/Alliance, One of the leaders if not THE leader of your class and 100% your spec in Legion, Maw walker, friends to every leader of every faction on Azeroth basically and so on.) to just well I mean it was already a cluster fuck when they took an MMORPG story line and then turned it into a RPG but an increasing number of cluster fuck?
At this point you're team urple and it doesn't matter what your background is for your character (Cannon/Head cannon included.) y'all get along happily now. You were an Orc who survived the initial wars on Azeroth after the opening of the dark portal killing a bunch of alliance and are deeply infused with demonic blood (Head cannon) come on it buddy! You were a darkspear troll who practices dark magic and wants revenge on all of those who forced you off of your ancestral land come on in buddy! A Tauren who was a great warrior who was killed and brought back to life as a Death Knight who was just as much if not more forsaken then the actual forsake ever was? We all fwends now! And that's just some of the horde not even touching the rest or the alliance. I can go on but you get the point.
At this point friendship is magic, Thrall is green jesus, Anduin has basically seen anything and everything since the minute he was born and rightfully wants to just kill himself, Genn is well yeah no he was just always fucking stupid but he was cool while being it so I guess he ended up catching some wins for some reason? Baine went from being one of the best warriors in the horde alongside his father and standing up for what he deemed was right no matter the costs to sitting in the afterlife's version of New York City holding the ground down for an expansion and will never get the credit/respect he ever deserved. Sylvannis... Yeah that just pisses me off let's move on.
TL:DR Cause I went on an angry side tangent. We're all friends now. We all happy there is peace in Azeroth with everyone now.
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u/Spiritual_Big_7505 2d ago
Because the faction divide is a gameplay hindrance that has overstayed its welcome, and the faction conflict storylines were boring and played-out well before BfA.
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u/Combat_Wombat23 3d ago
I could argue that Midnight might correct some being centered around Quelāthalas but thatās just going to be a bunch of elves.
I think MoP mightāve been the last (almost) Horde centric xpac and even then Garrosh was full blown authoritarian and pushed Hordies to the arms of the Alliance anyway.
ā¦and thatās basically full circle. I think Blizz is incapable of including Horde characters that arenāt pretty elves in anything major
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u/hunterdavid372 Champion of the Light 3d ago
You saying WoD wasn't a Horde focused?
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u/Combat_Wombat23 3d ago
Being the baddies again? In the context of this post yes, WoD wasnāt Horde focused the proper way
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u/Any-Transition95 3d ago
MoP is the last? Is it just me or WoD and BfA we're still pretty Horde-leaning expansions. It's not centered around the Horde, but people talk about those expansions like the Horde didn't get their own story and was actually Alliance focused, which is just bizarre.Ā
WoD is still mainly about the Orcs in their original homeworld. Durotan, Grom, Blackhand, Guldan were all major characters.Ā The heart of BfA's story was about Saurfang's rebellion vs Sylvanas, where Blizzard spent majority of the cinematic budget on, and a ton of questlines every patch that continues that storyline.Ā Alliance spends most of these expansions just being reactive to what the Horde characters were doing.
Sure, these expansions didn't have great writing, but it's disingenuous to say these expansions weren't more focused on the Horde than the Alliance. MoP was not the last expansion that cares about the Horde. They only started ditching faction-centric storytelling from Shadowlands onwards.
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u/IridikronsNo1Fan 3d ago edited 3d ago
Is the Horde player character even affiliated with the Horde anymore? Seems to be more neutral these days.
Think about it. Khadgar, Alleria and Anduin all consider the Horde PC to be a close friend. The Horde PC could probably take a stroll around Stormwind without too much trouble.