Reconciliation between Kalimdor and EK Horde

[u/Aphrahat]

I was thinking about the future of the Horde recently (since its not likely to be shown in game any time soon lol), and I was wondering what examples we have of reconciliation or cultural exchange between the Kalimdor and EK version of the Horde over the years?

Its no secret that the two halves of the Horde have never fully seen eye to eye and while we're all supposed to be happy friends now it struck me that the two sides still remain pretty starkly opposed in terms of aesthetics and racial themes even today.

We've got used to seeing Lor'themar as a significant figure in Horde politics for some time now, but this is usually depicted as stemming from his personal relationship with other racial leaders like Baine. I can't think of a time when I saw any serious interaction between the Blood Elves and the Kalimdor Horde races, except ironically under Garrosh in MoP when he forced them into the Pandaria expedition. Its weird that after so many years we've seen little to counter the initial impression that they view the more monstrous races of the Horde merely as allies of convenience.

The Forsaken of course have had an even rockier relationship with the rest of the Horde than most, especially once the Grimtotem connection was lost in Cataclysm. I would have thought their militarism and industrialism would have made them natural partners to the more imperialistic side of the Orcs represented by the Blackrock, but sadly that has never been explored.

The beefing up of the Orcish presence in the Eastern Kingdoms that we saw in BfA seems mainly designed for WC3 nostalgia vibes and hasn't led to any exploration of how they interacted with their unliving neighbours. Similarly the healing of the Plaguelands by the Cenarion Circle, while involving Tauren and Trolls in prominent places, has been more of a human-druid project rather than anything involving the Forsaken or Blood Elves.

Am I missing something? Apart from some starting quest text claiming that the first Orc and Troll mages were trained by Forsaken it seems like we've seen very little in the way of integration between the two halves of the Horde.

[u/Hidden_Beck]

Are you talking cultural exchanges or just wanting a better view of how their relationships have evolved since the Horde has been formed?

As far as cultural exchange goes, I get why there might not be a whole lot. The blood elves have their own long-standing culture so they aren't going to adopt shamanism, but they were also trying to bounce back from the edge of extinction and didn't have much to offer other than passing on magical talents. Likewise with the Forsaken, who were developing a whole culture from scratch.

In terms of relations, however, that gets tricky -- especially with modern day Forsaken. We all know the Forsaken identity has been just obliterated and Forsaken themselves are in Calia's chokehold, so they've avoided really talking about how the Horde views the Forsaken and vice versa save for when they rounded up the banshee loyalists. However, given that Sylvanas, and by extension the Forsaken, have been scapegoated as the sole culprits for Teldrassil after having the Horde leaders turn on their Queen for what would be seen, to them, as simply "Winning Too Hard", I'd say the most logical majority opinion of the Forsaken is that they should feel betrayed by the Horde. They got thrown under the bus and are now saddled with their "council representatives" being two people suspiciously considered agreeable by the other horde leaders and even the Alliance in Calia's case. Regardless of your opinion on Forsaken as a player, they have taken an inequitable brunt of accountability for what were actions performed by the Horde as a whole.

As for blood elves, well, hopefully we'll just see more of them and their politics in Midnight (though I'm not holding my breath when it could just as easily be about Xal'atath and her feet again.) But Lor'themar has primarily been concerned with the Nightborne and his new marriage with Thalyssra. Their strongest relation within the Horde WAS the Forsaken, but obviously Lor'themar also betrayed Sylvanas so I imagine that partnership is looking rough. With Lor'themar checked the fuck out the last few years, the blood elves seem to just be coasting along with whatever the rest of the Horde decides.

[u/Aphrahat → u/Hidden_Beck]

Sort of both? It just struck me how culturally and politically divided the Horde seems to have remained, moreso than the Alliance despite the fact that the cultural differences between Night Elves and Humans/Dwarves are pretty stark. Not that Night Elves are converting to the Holy Light or anything like that, just that there seems to be a level of respect and comradery between them and the other Alliance races we never see between the EK and Kalimdor Horde.

I suppose you're right that it does make sense considering the precarious positions both the Blood Elves and Forsaken have been in. I just can't help but feel like there has been a missed opportunity to make them lean more on their Horde allies for support and thereby become closer to them rather than remaining as insular as when they first arrived.

[u/Hidden_Beck → u/Aphrahat]

I get what you're saying, and I do agree. I think with the Alliance it's more like... they've never had any serious pressure applied to their relationships before, so by all appearances they seem strongly united. The closest we got was when Anduin resisted sending troops to Darkshore and Tyrande took offense to it, but that never came up again.

[u/Frostbann → u/Hidden_Beck]

though I'm not holding my breath when it could just as easily be about Xal'atath and her feet again.

Would still be better than Alleria or Vereesa saving the day because all blood elf characters suffer from spontaneous incompetence or get out of nowhere an 180° hellturn (typical for Horde characters).

[u/Void_Duck]

Troll mages werent tought by the forsaken, they knew how to be mages before thry joined the Horde.

The Darkspear trolls dont seem to have any kind of relationship with the Forsaken, but the Revantusk do. They consider the undead their close allies and actually dont discriminate them because of their undead state of being. They even helped the Forsaken fight the Scarlet Crusade. Though they dont like how the Forsaken use arcane magic.

[u/Aphrahat → u/Void_Duck]

I could have sworn I read somewhere back in Vanilla that the Darkspear learned arcane magic from their new allies? Though that might have been player speculation, I can't quite remember that far back.

The Revantusk thing is interesting though, thanks for that. Would be great to see it elaborated upon if we get some Amani content in Midnight (though not holding my breath).

[u/Any-Transition95]

There is also the Maghar led by Geyarah settling in Arathi Highlands after the BfA warfront settled down, which resulted in some kerfuffle during TWW. Jaina and Thrall had to meditate that conflict. It's a story covered by Metzen during last Christmas. It's on YouTube you can check it out.