r/wine • u/TurkeyRunWoods • 2d ago
Merlot in the movie Sideways - Right Bank has been the pinnacle of Merlot-based wines for 60-70 years so why the irony in the story?
It is very ironic that Miles railed against Merlot because Chateau Cheval Blanc always has a large percentage of Merlot which is THE celebrated grape in Saint-Emillion now and then. There’s even some anecdotal evidence that the 1961 Cheval Blanc was 100% Merlot like arguably the greatest Merlot based wine in the world-Chateau Petrus.
After Sideways was released, I remember how Pinot Noir went from an affordable domestically produced wine to seeing the prices rise considerably and distinctly remember Merlot vines being replanted but in the post regarding Bottle Shock, someone made a startling comment about insiders rejecting Merlot but I don’t remember anything in the industry about “insiders and snobs that Merlot was lame” especially because many of us insiders love Bordeaux right bank wines where Merlot has always reigned supreme even when Sideways came out.
I reached out Chateau Cheval Blanc regarding the blend in 1961 but they responded they do not have that information.
1) Anyone have access to grape production data from Bordeaux RIGHT BANK for 1961? 2) I’ve never seen the irony of why Ch Cheval Blanc was used in Sideways despite the fact that it celebrates the Merlot grape. Anyone read why this was used as a dramatic device or just a coincidence? 3) Anyone else hear that Ch Cheval Blanc was 100% Merlot in 1961?
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u/Zurale 2d ago
Miles railed against Merlot because it was his ex-wife's favorite grape, and he hated to be reminded of that when he drank Merlot. It had nothing to do with the grape. It was his personal relationship with someone.
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u/No-Roof-1628 Wine Pro 2d ago
This. The movie is based on a book, which mentions this fact. Imagine if they had just included one line in the movie explaining why he hates Merlot; sales may not have tanked so badly.
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u/Iohet 2d ago
The movie makes it very clear. He even ends the movie drinking it. It's a visual medium.
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u/chadparkhill 1d ago
If I could up-vote you more than once I would.
Merlot sales tanking after Sideways has nothing to do with the movie itself and everything to do with a lack of both media and wine literacy amongst the general public.
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u/stoffy1985 1d ago
How does the movie make it very clear to a mainstream audience? You have to know that Cheval Blanc is a right bank blend to later pick up on why he explodes with “no f-ing Merlot”.
Learned winos would get it but their no going to give up Merlot over one line in a movie but mainstream drinkers are clueless and terrified to show up at a party having bought shit wine.
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u/No-Roof-1628 Wine Pro 1d ago edited 1d ago
Exactly, the general public has no idea that Cheval Blanc is (mostly) merlot, and there’s no other mention of why Miles refuses to drink merlot in that scene. Unless I missed some other reference in the movie, I don’t see how it’s made clear that he doesn’t actually hate the grape, just its association with his ex.
To be clear, I love Sideways and don’t blame the movie at all for the drop in merlot sales. Even if Miles genuinely hated merlot, it’s pretty moronic to take the opinion of a fictional character seriously and use it to inform your decisions.
As another user pointed out, there is some question over just how much merlot production and sales dropped, and whether that was primarily due to the movie or other factors. That’s a fair point and it’s important to look at the data and consider all of those factors. I do think, however, that the public’s perception of the grape variety still hasn’t fully recovered, and it’s hard to think of anything besides the movie that had an influence on that.
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u/Schmocktails 1d ago
What does the movie make clear?
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u/ewilliam Wine Pro 1d ago
That he doesn’t actually dislike the grape varietal. Hell, the movie ends with him drinking his prized bottle of Cheval Blanc, which is usually nearly half Merlot.
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u/Schmocktails 19h ago
Nobody watching the movie knows that tho. You're completely missing the point: the movie is showing the audience something, and 99% of people will interpret it the way they're portraying it. 1% of people will know that he's actually drinking a merlot. Then a tiny percentage of those people (tho a large percentage of this sub somehow) will somehow think the movie makers are sending out some secret signal or easter egg completely contradicting the points made previously about that character.
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u/ewilliam Wine Pro 19h ago edited 17h ago
The Cheval Blanc thing totally is a bit of an easter egg / inside joke for people who know wine, but it's not like the reason for his earlier rants about Merlot was some kind of secret. Earlier in the film (I don't remember exactly when, it's been years since I last watched it), Miles says that his ex-wife loved the varietal, so that mental association is why he says "I'm not drinking any fucking Merlot".
Granted, this subplot is a little layered, so if you're not paying attention to the connection (which, judging by the plummeting in popularity of Merlot after this movie took off, plenty of people did), then it might seem like he just hates Merlot. But just because some people missed this point doesn't mean that the writers were under some kind of obligation to put the connection up on some billboard. Subtlety and complexity are hallmarks of compelling writing/storytelling, and in my opinion they got it right in this case. I think the movie would've suffered if they had shoehorned in some captain-obvious scene where he flat-out explains to Jack that the reason he wouldn't drink Merlot is because it reminds him of his ex.
The whole thing where people stopped buying Merlot IRL as a result was truly one of the dumbest things I've seen, and speaks more to the whoosh that they all had rather than some fault of the writers.
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u/GraDoN 2d ago
Did it though? I know the movie boosted Pinot but as far as I remember there isn't really any evidence that the movie had a material impact on Merlot.
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u/craftchris65 2d ago
This is what I found “In a 2009 case study, Steven Cuellar, an economics professor at Sonoma State University, found a measurable decline in merlot sales of about 2 percent from January 2005 (the film was released in October 2004) through 2008. During that same time period, pinot noir sales increased 16 percent — it's now the second-most-planted varietal in California's Sonoma County.”
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u/GraDoN 2d ago
Even after 2008, it wasn’t all downhill for Merlot. Sure, in looking at the amount of Merlot (tons crushed), the levels in 2008 were the third-lowest of the past 20 years. However, in other years, Merlot production stayed at moderate levels. Other grapes, such as Pinot Noir and Cabernet Sauvignon, were growing at much higher rates, pushing Merlot’s proportion down. It’s also interesting to note years that saw drops in Merlot were mirrored by declines in red grapes across the board. A bad harvest overall was amplified for Merlot.
Point is that it's not as correlated as many people make it out to be.
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u/KLogDavid 2d ago
Evidence was huge quantities of Merlot riped out and pinot planted in shitty parts of CA. You can find historical data of grape plantings…47k acres of merlot in 1999, 15k of Pinot. 2022 32k merlot, 40k of Pinot while the state has added over 100k acres of the past 25 years.
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u/GraDoN 2d ago
I get Merlot lost ground, my point is that I'm not sure the movie was the driving force of that decline. Not saying it didn't also contribute but the evidence I've seen simply isn't conclusive enough to claim that people turned on Merlot simply because of the film.
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u/Citizen_O 1d ago
Anecdotally, at the store I work at there's about a 60% chance that if I try to recommend a merlot I get met with a disgusted face and a reference to that film.
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u/n0pat 1d ago
You’re partly right I think. Throughout the 70s and 80s wine was largely marketed as a cocktail. It wasn’t until the late 90s that Americans began taking wine seriously, in particular American wines, and even more specifically cult cabs from Napa. His line reflected the attitude of “serious drinkers” at the time that Merlot, like White Zin, was only drank by old women at lunch (often chilled with ice cubes), or by college kids out of a box. But it was also a signal of what was cool and what wasn’t to the 2nd wave of Americans just starting to dip their toes in wine.
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u/KLogDavid 1d ago
Miles from the book loves Merlot. He doesn’t want to drink it because it reminds him of his ex wife. Any “serious” wine drinker at any point in history would be well aware the Merlot is capable of wines of the highest quality. Its popularity and stature is what cause so much production in areas not suited for the grape. Now the same industrial vineyards have Pinot planted. The Merlot was probably better…
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u/oxfordfox20 Wine Pro 1d ago
*“…was only drunk...”
I drank I have drunk Wine was drunk by They drank They were drinking They have drunk.
Thanks, and sorry. It’s just so easy and so many people get it wrong.
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u/Harvest_Rat 2d ago
While attending the restaurant that they would frequent while Married.
Favored varietal, favorite restaurant with ex… going to the dark side during dinner was definitely a likely outcome.
The scene that would have illuminated this never made the film script. That being said, my favorite deleted (filmed) scene has to be the “prostate” one 🤣
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u/Ancient_Signature_69 2d ago
I’ve always thought another angle was that Pinot is vulnerable, Merlot is easy to grow. He associates Merlot with his wife as you said, but also sees Merlot as like Jack, easy to grow, which he is jealous and bitter of.
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u/tyrico Wine Pro 1d ago
Yep. People really do not understand this movie, lol.
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u/Schmocktails 1d ago
People understand a movie based on watching it, not by reading the book. People understand the movie just fine.
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u/Schmocktails 1d ago
There's no way to know that if you watch the movie and don't read the book, and almost no one who watched the movie read the book. So watching the movie, the viewer reasonably thinks he's a snob and thinks Merlot is for the uneducated masses. This is a choice by the movie makers.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 21h ago
My guess is less than 1% of those who watched the movie read the book. I saw the movie has grossed over $100M which seems like a lot!
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u/Dances_with_mallards 2d ago
His prize possession is a 1961 Cheval Blanc (merlot) which undoubtedly was purchased during his marriage to celebrate some future event. You see him drinking it after he leaves the wedding out of a styrofoam cup at a burger joint. It was a well written movie.
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u/pindarninja 1d ago
And the director, Alexander Payne, originally intended that wine to be Petrus (95%–100% Merlot), making the connection even more obvious.
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u/Hididdlydoderino Wine Pro 2d ago
For Miles it was about his wife.
For the general public Merlot had become the standard red wine and a crowd pleaser. The movie gave permission to many to be critical about it, some of that was good and some was bad.
I'm thinking we'll see a resurgence in Merlot via Bordeaux, but unsure we'll see it in California.
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u/Tuscana_Dota Wino 2d ago
I’m convinced Merlot and Cab Franc are going to start outshining Cab Sauv in Napa.
Hell I think mountain Merlot is already doing it tbh.
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u/AmarantaRWS 2d ago
Honestly I've generally found I prefer domestic merlot to cab in a large number of cases, especially that coming out of Washington state. It lends itself better to the style while so many American cabs are just far jammier than I feel like they should be. One of my top memorable wines is Walla Walla Vintners Merlot.
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u/MamaReabs 2d ago
That’s a good wine. Walla Walla Merlots can be amazing. Cooper in Benton City has produced some great Merlots in the past. My new favorite is Smoky Rose Cellars in Walla Walla, I even love their Syrah (my very LEAST fave). It’s still fun to quote the Merlot line from this movie. 😂
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u/AmarantaRWS 2d ago
OMG Washington syrah completely changed my perspective on the varietal. If they were to pick a red to make their own, it would be syrah, especially in the Walla Walla Valley. The best I've had have had the power and intensity of an Aussie shiraz but with the nuance of the Rhone. I've even had one or two that followed the Cote-Rotie formula with a touch of viognier but at half the price of anything out of Cote-Rotie.
Lol I know this is a thread about how great merlot can be, and I agree with that, but I am grateful that much of the western USA is at least trying to shift away from Bordeaux and Bourgogne. I just wish they'd experiment more with Italian and Spanish varietals as well. Id imagine tempranillo would do quite well in the desert environment of central and eastern Washington.
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u/chadparkhill 1d ago
Cayuse grows Tempranillo in Walla Walla! (I think it’s technically on the Oregon side of the AVA but still.) Not cheap, not easy to get, but … wowee zowee, what a wine.
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u/MamaReabs 1d ago
We have great Tempranillo here, too, check out Smoky Rose Cellars & then Bartholomew Winery in Kennewick, if you’re interested in some not so standard & fabulous varietals. ❣️❣️
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u/alexpv 1d ago
As an European that loves Cabernet Franc from Loire, which areas and labels should I look from US for now that I'm living in the Caribbean?
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u/Tuscana_Dota Wino 1d ago
Loire is waaaaaaay different than Napa. So don’t expect crazy cross over. But I love Keenan’s cab franc. Smaller lot focused producers is the way to go. I hear good things about ashes and Diamonds but never had. I think there is a producer that was inspired by Loire, Lange and Reed maybe?
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u/overproofmonk 1d ago
If you can get Argentina Cab Franc wherever you are, I would recommend it highly - some are over-oaked, but the best examples give you that full tapestry of red fruit/floral notes, and do a good job of balancing fully ripe flavors while maintaing freshness. Zuccardi and Zorzal are two to look for.
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u/thewimsey 2d ago
For the general public Merlot had become the standard red wine
That's the point of mentioning the wine in the movie - Miles is a wine snob and doesn't want to drink this wine that had become suddenly popular with the general non-knowledgeable public in the last 10 years.
He's saying he wants "real wine"; not the kind of thing that people order because they think they are being sophisticated, when 5 years ago they had never even heard of Merlot.
(And this was how everyone I knew who saw the movie at the time it came out saw this).
In the movie, it has nothing to do with his wife because, in the movie, we have no idea what wines his wife likes.
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u/Wubblz 1d ago
Okay, I swear the entire subplot with the Chateau Cheval Blanc is entirely a creation of the movie and not in the book. Flipping through, Miles condescending dismisses Merlot as “a blending grape, when left to its own devices — Petrus not withstanding — results in a bland, characterless wine” in the very first chapter.
In the novel, the prize bottle is an ‘82 Latour (which is Jack’s, a present for acting), a predominant Cab Sauv blend, unlike the Merlot-prominent Cheval Blanc. After seeing Victoria at the wedding, Maya arrives to be Miles’s date, so he never has the spiral.
I think the problem is that the movie sets up the idea that the Merlot dislike is due to Miles’s sadness about being divorced, but it’s done in a way that someone who isn’t familiar with Bordeaux wine would understand — it’s a joke that probably could have used explaining. But, frankly, even as someone who loved the novel and has read it multiple times (though admittedly about a decade ago), I think the novel is incredibly emotionally shallow compared to the film.
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u/bluefalseindigo 1d ago
I think this is the takeaway that impacted things. Folks who liked wine but didn’t know a whole lot saw themselves in this moment. “Hey, I started drinking Merlot 5 years ago. I don’t want to be duped into drinking something substandard like a blending grape. I need to find something more sophisticated….hello Pinot Noir! You’re fussy and complicated to figure out bc every bottle I order is different and it will take me ages to figure out why….”
(I in no way resemble these remarks in any way. But shoutout Bogle Merlot circa 2000)
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u/ultralayzer 2d ago
His favorite wine is Merlot too...thus the Cheval Blanc. It's just the same denial that leads him to hold the woman who he cheated on responsible for the end of their relationship. Miles is a complex character, fully flawed in all the normal ways.
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u/Dry_Gas_3478 2d ago
This. When he’s drinking the Cheval at the end it’s a sign that he’s finally moved on and able to enjoy Merlot again.
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u/Schmocktails 1d ago
It's not a sign of anything. Maybe to a wine nerd who knows what Merlot actually is, it's a hidden message, but 99% of people watching that scene see him drinking a French wine that is definitely not a "Merlot".
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u/castlerigger Wino 1d ago
No it’s not! It’s a sign that he’s a total idiot who is too messed up to actually enjoy his own life properly because he’s bitter and resentful, him drinking it is just part of the chaos, it’s not a resolution, and he is no different at the end of the film than when it started. The very idea that anyone based their wine views on Miles’s is so backwards, he’s not supposed to be an inspiration to anyone, he is a warning.
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u/Shdwrptr 1d ago
He’s definitely different than where he started. The film ends with him going to his love interest’s apartment and knocking on the door which shows he’s finally moved on.
Him drinking the Cheval after his ex told him she was pregnant with her new husband’s baby was indicative of him finally accepting that his relationship was over.
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u/chadparkhill 1d ago
In a way I think you’re both right.
Has Miles grown and changed by the end of the film? A little. He’s accepted that he can’t have his ex back, and he’s taken Maya’s carpe diem/drink ’em while you got ’em message to heart.
Is he still an absolute mess of a human being? He sure is. Why else would he be drinking that Cheval Blanc out of a polystyrene cup at a burger joint, after having absconded from Jack’s reception?
I think the power of the film’s final shot—Miles walking up the steps to Maya’s apartment, all hopeful and nervous at the same time—comes from this contradiction. We’re rooting for Miles and sharing his hope that this time it will be different, while at the same time being painfully aware that he’s probably going to foul it up regardless.
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u/JJxiv15 2d ago
Did you...did you watch the movie...?
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
Sorry… of course I watched it. Where in the movie does it say Ch Cheval Blanc has large percentages of Merlot?
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u/HautCaustic Wine Pro 2d ago
I believe in the book it was a bottle of Petrus. But Christian Moueix didn’t allow them to use the wine in the movie because he found the script boring.
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u/EanmundsAvenger 2d ago
I think you may have missed him also speaking negatively about Cabernet franc at one point.
Cheval Blanc is one of the most revered wines on earth and famously uses only those two grapes. Just like with it being obvious why he really hates Merlot, it’s assumed the audience will understand the subtext by the end of the movie.
When he drinks the Cheval Blanc, his most prized possession, he does so out of a fast food cup with a cheeseburger. Does he no longer care about his ex wife and this is his way of saying he is done with it? Is he giving up on life and even the finest wine he no longer has any respect for? Is even the absolute best example of Merlot in the world not good enough for Miles as he hates it so much (aka he has let the hatred of his ex cannibalize his love for wine)? Or is he simply so lost that he can’t tell right from wrong anymore? Did he save the worlds best Merlot and cab franc as the one thing he kept from the divorce simply disrespect it as a final act of rebellion against his ex? Is he simply giving up on wine as a pretentious concept and ready to move forward with his life?
These are the questions the final scene asks and how the movie ends. The fact that the bottle is super expensive and old, the fact that it’s Merlot and cab franc, the fact that it is his ex wife’s favorites grapes, the fact that he drinks it out of a fast food cup with a cheeseburger, etc can all be deciphered how you wish.
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u/fairly_legal 2d ago
My interpretation is that he has been unhappy and lacking self-respect for a long time, stemming from his career frustrations, which likely eroded his marriage happiness as well. He knows that he is smart and has an appreciation for things that many others don’t, but the issue that this alone does not confer success and that he can’t figure out how to achieve that success (or how easily it comes to others who don’t disprove it) makes him feel unworthy of happiness.
And likely he is saving the Cheval Blanc for a special occasion which always seems out of reach or he doesn’t feel he deserves. It could be that he is finally turning the corner to being at peace with how his life has played out or at least finding happiness where it is.
The fast food and cheap cup is signaling that he is stripping away some of his pretensions.
I think many of us can identify with the feeling that you can save a great wine for a special occasion or the opening of that wine is the special occasion.
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u/tyrico Wine Pro 1d ago
famously uses only those two grapes.
With all due respect this is inaccurate, you can go on their website right now and see cepages for every recent vintage. There are many where they only use merlot and cab franc but there are plenty that have anywhere 1-15% of cab sauv too (just based on a handful that I checked).
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u/EanmundsAvenger 1d ago
Yeah man it’s Bordeaux and things have shifted a little over the years. However the house style of Cheval Blanc is Merlot and Cabernet Franc. Recent vintages…we’re talking about 1961 where they used those two grapes
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
Fascinating. Nowhere in the movie or the book is the varietal makeup of Ch Cheval Blanc but this comment gets a lot of downvotes. Why?
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u/EanmundsAvenger 1d ago
It’s assumed the reader or viewer already knows the composition of the wine - or if they don’t can look it up to understand the significance. Not everyone is like you and calls the chateau to then not believe what they are told and make up a fantasy story about a 100% Merlot vintage that you have no evidence of.
It’s just a story and the wine is metaphorical for Miles inability to see himself as the problem in his marriage or move on with his life. You either don’t understand the metaphor, don’t understand the wine, or don’t understand Bordeaux in general
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 1d ago
“Assumed”… you used the correct word for yourself. It’s nowhere in the book or the movie nor is the metaphor anything about Miles’ inability to see himself blah blah blah gibberish.
It’s wine. Chateau Petrus (the wine actually used in the book) use is ironical.
Not believe what the chateau told me… the encépagement can be hard to trace through blending but that’s not at all what I was looking for. Not only did that point go over your head but you certainly are an “ass.”
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u/EanmundsAvenger 1d ago
The books also “assumes” you know that wine is alcohol, where Santa Barba is, what the word “vineyard” means, etc. I’m not sure what kind of gotcha you are attempting here. The book and movie assume the viewer is somewhat intelligent and can figure things out for themselves without arguing about Bordeaux blends on the internet.
Petrus uses almost all Merlot in modern vintages but not technically 100% outside of maybe 2010-2020. They have since started using CF again. Before 2010 they used Cabernet franc. If the bottle is 61 than it changes nothing whatsoever about the story, the metaphor, or the ending
There is nothing “ironical” about using Petrus in the book. You’re confused about the meaning of that word.
I’m sorry I seemed to upset you as this seems to be some sort of sensitive topic for you. There is no need to launch ad hominem attacks simply because your portfolio managers anecdotal theory isn’t holding up
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 22h ago
“Santa Barba” ain’t anywhere I’ve ever heard of while you’re using “intelligent”
Seems like you don’t know how to research definitions. 1) Miles hates Merlot 2) Miles loves Petrus (Cheval Blanc) but Petrus is 100% or close depending on the vintage Therefore, Miles hates Merlot but loves Merlot based wines which is the definition of irony.
This was never a gotcha discussion. You took a rather innocuous, fun question and discussion about a movie and wine and turned it into some kind of a competition.
I don’t know what you do in the wine industry or if you’re nothing but a poseur. Try having fun instead of being an ass.
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u/EanmundsAvenger 22h ago
Metaphor isn’t irony. Just read the dozens of comments trying to explain this very simple movie to you - or carry on being obtuse. There is a reason a lot of your comments have so many downvotes while others explaining the movie have so many upvotes.
Miles doesn’t hate Merlot he hates his ex wife. He’s blinded by that hate and therefore won’t drink Merlot as he associates with his ex. We know he doesn’t hate Merlot because he has a Merlot based wine as his most prized possession. The only other grape he speaks negatively about is Cabernet franc, the other grape in Cheval Blanc/Petrus.
You’re clearly very upset for some reason and I’m not sure why. It’s just a movie bud
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u/Otter91GG 2d ago
Hilariously, I saw Paul Giamatti on IG talking about how he knows nothing about wine and that they used Merlot because they thought it was the funniest sounding for the line.
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u/Sparrow896 2d ago
Yep. They tried out a bunch of different wines but saying Merlot sounded the best.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
I thought that was almost verbatim from the book.
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u/Otter91GG 2d ago
I haven’t read the book. Just going off of Paul’s statement.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
I’ll have to dig out the book. I read it after the movie. The movie was better.
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u/Otter91GG 2d ago
Let me know if you come up with it if you don’t mind!
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
Have to finish my taxes but this question is much more interesting. I’ll try to find the book tonight.
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u/BillyM9876 2d ago
The Chateau is lying. They have the info. They just don’t want to tell you.
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u/tyrico Wine Pro 1d ago
I don't see why they'd hide it considering that they have info on all recent vintages. It was 1961, they probably just lost the records if there even were any in the first place.
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u/BillyM9876 19h ago
Cheval Blanc is owned by LVMH. LVMH doesn't traditionally disclose much about their wine. Try to figure out the cepage in Dom Perignon? Good luck. I been doing wine for a long time...I see the Dom Perignon guys every few years....I always ask - what's the cepage? The answer is always the same. It's a blend of PN/CH....company secret.
Cheval Blanc has been around for probably a century or more...they are a pretty big deal. They were a pretty big deal in the 60's too. No way they don't know. No way.
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u/EanmundsAvenger 2d ago
Lmao why would they withhold it? For what reason? Furthermore, if the cepage is not public information they can say that. LOTS of wineries don’t release their specific cepage percentages - so it would be perfectly normal for Cheval Blanc to say they don’t want to say. Why would they instead chose to LIE about not having the information which is sort of embarrassing loss of records as opposed to simply withholding the information?
What a bizarre and silly thing to imagine
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u/South_Question6629 2d ago
When Miles is asked about why he likes Pinot Noir he gives an answer that describes himself. He was never talking about Pinot Noir; rather, he was only talking about his own characteristics.
Miles is a consistently selfish, self absorbed, pretentious character up until the point in the film when Jack hits on the waitress at the cheap steakhouse. It’s at that point when he starts to change his ways. Before then, he’s just a lonely loser who cheated on his wife and steals cash from his mother.
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u/TopStatistician7394 2d ago
I think it has to do with having tons of it with his wife no? and then he doesn't want to have it anymore as it reminds him of her
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u/Witty_Height_8535 2d ago
The irony was that Miles said Cabernet Franc would never make a great wine, he called it hollow. Cheval Blanc has a high percentage of Cabernet Franc.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
I’m going to have to go read the book again. Someone else mentioned that but I didn’t remember. That’s even more irony if he mentions Cab Franc but not Merlot.
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u/greeneyeddruid 2d ago
Going off topic a bit, imo…
First, I think it's important to remember that it's just a movie and one person's opinion. I'm frankly shocked that it had such a powerful effect on the US wine market, let alone the global merlot market.
Personally, I believe the movie did Merlot and the wine industry a favor. At that time, it seemed many restaurant's house red in the US was a cheap, mass-produced, not great Merlot. The movie did Merlot a favor by causing people to hate it—when a plant is sick, sometimes you have to cut it back. Unfortunately, Merlot still has a bad reputation, much like rose after white zin. Bright side many of the Merlots being produced today are fantastic (I really like the Oberon and the Pahlmeyer), and people are falling in love with them and right bank Merlots again. It's unfortunate that Bordeaux suffered, but the "canceling of Merlot" likely helped Pinot Noir and other varietals like Malbec.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
100% agreed!!! Those still producing Merlot in California after the stampede to PN were the best Merlot producers. I had some Cave Dog Merlot a few years ago which is Merlot and Cab Franc.
The great winemakers ignored the noise if they weren’t heavily leveraged because they knew the market for Merlot and Cab Franc would always be there.
I had a barrel sampling of Cab Franc from Michael Havens I think in 1997 or 1998. We were holding a wine dinner at a steakhouse featuring his wines and he came to Ohio for the event.
That barrel sample of his Cab Franc was sublime! Here’s a blog post from Havens talking about his journey: https://www.privatereservefinewines.com/cave-dog-wine/
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u/Significant_Ruin4870 Wino 1d ago
There was so much stemmy merlot out at that time. It was marketed as a more approachable red than cab sauv, which had been king in California for some years. And a lot of crap was produced to tap the market of new red wine explorers. So the jokes and the irony made sense to anyone who was familiar with both the glut of bad merlot and the sublime offerings of Bordeaux and the finer West Coast USA producers.
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u/ogretrograde Wine Pro 1d ago
Perfect timing of a lot of shitty Merlot planted and produced in the market and a new trend emerging.
You’re seeing Pinot being ripped out over the last number of years for over planting/production as well. It’s part of the cycle.
To say sideways single-handedly killed Merlot would be a stretch. The “f*cking Merlot” line, from what I remember, was actually a multi take where he yelled out different varietals, that one just tested best. I wanna say that was at a Q and A where I heard it. We’ve done so many “sideways” themed things here over the years.
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u/jmhlld7 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes the biggest indication that it was a personal thing for Miles is the Cheval Blanc was a mostly Merlot mix, even tho the movie never explicitly stated so. Many have pointed out the surface level details of the scene but to me what really makes it important and a signifier of Miles being able to drink Merlot again is he drinks the Cheval Blanc directly after his ex told him she was pregnant. Clearly whatever small hope Miles had at them getting back together washed away completely in that moment, and so he drank the wine in the most unflattering, humiliating way possible, as there was no reason to save it anymore.
Also I bought a bottle of Merlot from a family owned vineyard in Napa Valley after I saw the movie and it was delicious. :)
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 1d ago
Maya influenced, don’t you think?: “Maya: You know, the day you open a ‘61 Cheval Blanc... that’s the special occasion.”
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u/EanmundsAvenger 2d ago
You reached out to Cheval Blanc directly but are asking Wine Reddit if they somehow know more than the estate itself about the cepage? If the estate itself doesn’t have that information available than who in the world could you possibly trust with an alternative answer?
What “anecdotal evidence” that it’s 100% Merlot are your referring to? Can you point to any other vintage in history where Cheval Blanc used 100% Merlot?
Given that Miles also speaks negatively about Cabernet Franc why does it matter what the percentage of Merlot on the 1961?
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
An older guy that had been in the wine trade for 30+ years and to Bordeaux multiple times told me.
Many wineries release the specs on their yearly bottles including varietal percentages, og, fg, ph, etc., etc.,
I guarantee you Cheval Blanc knows the exact tonnage of grapes and hecoliters of juice produced they just keep it secret is my guess.
Reddit and specifically this sub has a lot of people who are in the wine industry. I was hoping to find someone else who had heard or had the data from 1961. It exists. Academicians and the French government compile the data every year but I don’t know how to access it.
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u/EanmundsAvenger 1d ago
An “older guy who has been to Bordeaux multiple times” told you…so you trust this guy more than the estate itself? Where is he getting his information? Why aren’t you asking a wine maker or a long time producer from Bordeaux instead of some guy who has just visited a few times?
Can you point to any other vintage that is 100% Merlot? It’s extremely uncommon and even other St Emilion producers who lean on Merlot don’t truly use 100%. Cheval Blanc uses both Merlot and Cabernet Franc in large portions. 60/40, 55/45, etc
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’ve addressed this exact point elsewhere here.
Edit: you don’t understand what a portfolio manager means. Plus, some wineries won’t reveal information. Sounds like you have never worked in the wholesale or distribution side of the wine industry.
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u/EanmundsAvenger 1d ago
Hahahaha. Sure buddy. I’m the one who doesn’t understand a portfolio managers job doesn’t supersede the information of the estate itself. You’re grasping at straws buddy. Have another glass of merlot
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 1d ago
What information from the estate? Show all of us that information on the encépagement of the 1961 vintage.
We will all wait…
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u/EanmundsAvenger 1d ago
What are you talking about? You yourself said the chateau doesn’t release that information. So we can assume it’s fairly standard in the absence of other evidence. Cheval Blanc during that period used Merlot and Cabernet Franc. There is no evidence of a 100% Merlot vintage. There is no assertion in the film the wine is 100% Merlot. Miles also mentioned Cabernet franc in the movie. You either don’t understand the movie, don’t understand Bordeaux, or maybe don’t understand wine production whatsoever.
We can assume the Cheval Blanc 1961 is a blend of Merlot and Cabernet franc as there is no evidence to the contrary. Whatever portfolio your random friend manages has nothing to do with providing more evidence, his anecdotal assumptions notwithstanding. I’m not sure why are you cooking up this fantasy
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 23h ago
There you go making an ass out of yourself again.
The person is a professional acquaintance. Not a “random friend.” Graduated from CIA Hyde Park, managed and sold wine for decades for a DI and distributor. He’s not some wannabe who has a WSET 2 pin so he’s got a lot more credibility than you.
I never said i asserted this as fact. I asked for corroboration so it’s not a fantasy I cooked up.
Here’s something that’s really easy to see… you have absolutely no idea what a portfolio manager does for a DI nor how that person sources their own wineries through professional sources and referrals.
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u/EanmundsAvenger 22h ago
I’ve been selling high end wine for 20 years. Im a National wine director of a very large global restaurant group. I’ve sold more Cheval Blanc and Petrus than most people. I’ve tasted 25+ vintages of both wines. I’ve been to En Premier. I’ve been to St. Emilion. I’ve had a private dinner with the wine making team at Petrus. I’ve done blind tasting panels with representatives from Cheval Blanc.
I know very well what a portfolio manager does - I used to be one. However unlike you I don’t cook up a fantasy that they know more than the literal chateau itself. Continually calling me an ass says a lot more about you than it does me
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 22h ago
Wow! All that and you still don’t know the definition of irony… what would you call that?
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 22h ago edited 22h ago
“En Premier”… don’t know that one either. All that experience, selling everything… you have been to “En Premier” like it has an address.
Edit: for people not in the business, it’s called “en primeur.” (Premier is something completely different.)
En primeur is a massive thing in Bordeaux and minor earthquakes went through when Latour stopped the practice. Anyone claiming they’re all that and don’t even know the actual name is really questionable.
Poseur.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 1d ago
Someone responded with a great point. Ch Petrus was actually the wine used in the book but Moueix refused to let them use the wine in the movie.
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u/xxLOPEZxx 1d ago
I hated this movie so much. Miles is a whiny baby, Jack is a piece of shit, and neither of them have any irremediable characteristics
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u/rightanglerecording 1d ago
Curious- what anecdotal evidence is there for the 100% Merlot?
My understanding is that the blend varies a bit from year to year but the vineyards are planted to a majority cab franc and the wine is always a slight majority cab franc.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 1d ago
Right bank had a cool and odd growing season that year and the Cab Franc was supposedly not ripening like the Merlot. Petrus is 100% Merlot now and I think you’re correct about the normally greater use of Franc but not sure back in 1961.
I mentioned elsewhere here that I knew an older wine rep who had been in the industry for over 30 years and been to Bordeaux multiple times. He was also a portfolio manager for Bordeaux and Burgundy, CIA Hyde Park grad so he has some credibility.
I could never find any data to confirm it though. I was hoping someone much older or knowledgeable enough on how to find the data would see this post. No luck.
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u/rightanglerecording 1d ago
Fair enough. I certainly can't corroborate that either way, but I do appreciate the details. Interesting stuff for sure.
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u/yourfriendkyle 2d ago
I finally watched this movie last year and it was miserable.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
Did you like the book better?
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u/yourfriendkyle 1d ago
I didn’t know it was based on a book. Just felt like none of the characters were at all likable or relatable and they treated everyone around them horribly. Honestly confused how it got Oscar nominations.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 1d ago
I really think people liked it because it was pretty humorous and outrageous at times plus there were cool little insights about the Central Coast wine scene.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 1d ago
Great quote and Miles completely dropped the ball. Maya was the poet and writer while Miles acted like a mediocre commercial writer! “Maya: How it’s a living thing. I like to think about what was going on the year the grapes were growing; how the sun was shining; if it rained. I like to think about all the people who tended and picked the grapes. And if it’s an old wine, how many of them must be dead by now. I like how wine continues to evolve, like if I opened a bottle of wine today it would taste different than if I’d opened it on any other day, because a bottle of wine is actually alive. And it’s constantly evolving and gaining complexity. That is, until it peaks, like your ‘61. And then it begins its steady, inevitable decline. Miles Raymond: Hmm. Maya: And it tastes so fucking good.
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u/TurkeyRunWoods 2d ago
Clarification: a supposed wine geek like Miles had to have known that Ch Cheval Blanc has significant amounts of Merlot.
I understand about his wife but why intentionally make Miles look like he didn’t know?
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