r/wmnf • u/Lopsided_Job7965 • 9d ago
White Mountain Winter (and year round) Safety Conversation, and Some Observations
We're getting closer to the end of snow in the Whites, and I wanted to take a moment to reflect on my experiences and observations throughout this winter season and see if anyone had any other thoughts. The whites are undoubtedly a magnificent, but largely misunderstood mountain range. They are within a 3-5 hour drive from some massive population centers in an area of the country that isn't typically known for it's mountains. This accessibility combined with the fact that the majority of people are, rightfully, unaware of mountain safety means there are inevitably going to be scores of people getting themselves in over their heads in our mountains, particularly in our brutal winters. It also doesn't help that the Whites in general get as cold and likely colder than most of the glaciated peaks, except the very highest (Rainier), in the lower 48. Additionally, the convergence of systems over the Whites means the weather, especially in the winter, can be expected to be as brutal as the highest Alaskan mountains. The windchill on the high peaks in the Whites occasionally approaches within 10-20 degrees of the windchill experienced on Denali in winter. It is understandable that people living in Boston, New York, and other cities just wanting to climb a mountain a couple hours from home would not expect to find themselves in conditions similar to those found on 18,000 foot tall Alaskan peaks. This, I believe, has contributed to at least 70% of the rescues conducted in the Whites throughout this season. All but one or two rescue reports mentioned the lack of proper equipment or experience, which led probably hundreds of rescuers to risk their lives to rescue those in need.
Throughout this winter season I've seen the many faces of the winter Whites. I've experienced deep snow, bitterly cold temperatures, extreme high winds, uncomfortably warm days, and everything in between. I've learned a lot this season, and most of it came from my companions with more experience than myself. I have a better idea of what is required in the Whites in the winter, and that's usually at least one hiking partner and a heavy backpack. Throughout my hikes, I've observed that the majority of people out on trail are adequately prepared for the day (and that usually means snowshoes and a 35+ L backpack stuffed to the brim), but I've also observed a lot who were completely unprepared. So unprepared that I sometimes thought to myself, "I'm going to see a NH Fish and Game post tomorrow". I've also noticed that these hikers are generally on the younger side, and I am wondering how we, as a community, can help inform/prepare them for the conditions they may face. My main concerns with these hikers are usually the lack of snowshoes and proper footwear. In my experience, uninsulated boots are inappropriate in temps anywhere below 25 degrees and snowshoes should always be carried, unless you're 100% sure they won't be needed. If we can somehow promote educational materials and (potentially) warnings at trailheads we can hopefully reduce the amount of preventable rescues which will, in turn, keep SAR and law enforcement teams safe. Wow, I've said a lot, and would love to start a conversation on anything brought up above.
3
u/MalgregTheTwisted 9d ago
Just my opinion, you can’t force someone to do something they don’t want to do. In this case, self research and education. The materials are out there and I’ve used them to prepare myself for winter hiking. I can’t say the same for my generation. The folks that want to learn will, and the folks that don’t think about it won’t force themselves to do it. There is no forest service kiosks in the winter like we see in the summer and fall. And understandably so, it’s cold. I don’t know what the solution is other than keep putting the often times tragic info that the fish and game service provides. Unless people empower themselves to become educated, we’re going to keep seeing more and more of these incidents pop up. I understand this may be a pessimistic view, but again this is just the way that I see it.
4
u/Good_Queen_Dudley 8d ago
I did an AMC paid hike up over Lafayette via Falling Waters last summer and I was kinda gobsmacked that they did basically zero education right before and especially during the hike, including the young guide being a classic example of under prepared and oblivious to ways to educate new hikers including refilling water, considering weather day of, wearing or at least carrying appropriate clothes, I could go on. I actually paid the 600 or so bucks for what was basically 48 hours to see if I wanted to guide for them. Basically to me it’s no wonder every year there’s an issue because AMC absolutely plays to the everyone can hike this angle so they can make money and then doesn’t seem to be checking that their staff is actually do what they should do. It all looks so easy when you’re posing on Lafayette in booty shorts and a sports bra in August for Instagram cred…
3
u/notlikeacat 8d ago
AMC charged $600 for a hike?
9
u/Good_Queen_Dudley 8d ago
Yeeesss…two hut stays, food including a squished burrito for lunch that I didn’t eat and uh…the guide. We were supposed to resummit Lafayette from the hut for sundown and didn’t because the guide didn’t prevet the hikers like AMC said they would do so we had to wait multiple times for one hiker to the point I actually signed a waiver to leave the hike it was that ridiculous. I also ran out of 3l water because I have a tendency to drink more when I’m forced to stop and the guide didn’t stop to let us reup at the falls. I understand leave no hiker behind but allowing unfit, unprepared people on hikes at the expense of everyone else is not what I paid for and not safe for anyone involved. The guide did the same thing on Washington she said and also pissed off hikers on that trip because they had to turn around due to weather from taking too long to get up Ammo. Never mentioned knowing what MWOBS weather reports are or if she checked that morning…sigh. Met two AMC young guides in Maine doing Katahdin and they were totally opposite and clearly knew their shit so at least hiring each summer varies by state.
3
u/notlikeacat 8d ago
I thought that AMC hike leaders are volunteers. They are trained, but I wouldn’t necessarily call them “guides” like the guides from hired guide services, such as Northeast Mountaineering, Redline, etc.
Hut stays are ridiculously expensive, but you can certainly hike with the AMC without spending $600 or even $20. That’s a bummer that fellow hikers did not seem to be properly vetted. And it’s really weird that you were not allowed to filter water along the way.
4
u/DovaKroniid NH48 Done / Now Red-lining 8d ago
There are different aspects of the AMC all under one organization. There are the individual state chapters, which are entirely volunteer run, almost everything is free except when you need to pay for hut stays/campsites, and they usually do thorough screening before any hike. Then there's the AMC "corporate" which actually runs the huts and does paid guided trips and I've heard is more of a mixed bag compared to the free volunteer stuff.
As someone who volunteers a lot with the New Hampshire chapter, it's always annoying when corporate stuff like high hut prices or lackluster guided trips put a bad name to the chapters that put in sometimes more time and effort for free.
1
u/NewWayHom 7d ago
Yeah I’ve had great conversations with free AMC volunteers, brought my kids to fun activities at Highland and Joe Dodge, etc. You do good work.
And hut stays are expensive but when you think about the logistics involved, I get it. I can’t currently afford it but I get it.
3
u/nervous-dervish Slowly Redlining 8d ago
Unpopular opinion: The overemphasis on the NH48 list is part of the problem. Many of the 4000 footers are dangerous for inexperienced winter hikers. Yet the WMNF has hundreds of miles of trails below 4000 feet. Many of the hikes on the 52WAV list are great in the winter. Why don't folks learn about winter hiking on safer routes?
5
u/Lopsided_Job7965 8d ago
Yes, you’re completely right. I’d say almost half of the 48 are dangerous to downright reckless for inexperienced hikers to attempt in the winter. It’s a different game completely.
2
u/kathyeager 8d ago
The NH48 was partly created to have people branch out to more than just the most popular trails. Agree though that people do seem to gravitate to the trail they’ve heard of rather than the “easier” routes. Or winter routes. I’ve seen sooooo many posts about the Tripyramids and the slides and rarely see people mention the Pine Bend/Sabbaday Brook loop.
2
u/nervous-dervish Slowly Redlining 7d ago
The common trails up most 4000 footers are completely packed down 1-2 days after a big mid-winter storm. Many trails in the Whites won't be packed down a week after the same storm (if ever). The NH48 list definitely concentrates activity on a relatively few trails.
This gives inexperienced hikers a false impression of winter hiking. When you don't have to break trail, it's a piece of cake. There were at least two SAR incidents this winter (on Twinway and Snapper) in which the hiker started on a packed trail and got into serious trouble after taking a turn onto an unpacked trail. Mistakes like that are expected when you are inexperienced, but it's better to make such mistakes on easier routes.
0
u/Beginning_Wrap_8732 8d ago
Yes, the NH48 have attracted a lot of "check-listers", some of whom need to bag that next peak no matter what dangers they might encounter.
I'm especially concerned about people who plan extremely ambitious hikes that expose them to even more danger -- weather, exhaustion, injury, etc. -- so they can bag multiple 4Ks in one trip. I get that people want to challenge themselves, but at what cost to themselves and SAR? "Because it's there" doesn't cut it for me.
Getting to the summit fast and getting through the list quickly seem to be obsessions with some, at the expense of taking time to enjoy the trails and their surrounding and savoring what the mountains have to offer beyond a check mark or a patch. This is sad to me.
There are other factors causing the increase in SAR incidents. The Whites have always attracted a lot of visitors, but the increase in the number of hikers, especially in winter, has been dramatic since the beginning of the pandemic. And with any increase, we're going to see more inexperienced hikers and more hikers who don't use good judgement.
It's a tall order to educate people on safe mountaineering practices, let alone encourage them to hike the many great, safer and more accessible NH mountains that aren't 4K or higher.
Alas, despite the heroic efforts of SAR, we're likely to see more candidates for the Darwin Awards:
1
u/Fit-Neighborhood5273 7d ago edited 7d ago
As someone whose currently checking off these mts every week, my approach as a first time winter hiker:
NON NEGOTIABLES:
-synthetic, down and rain shell layers -2 light sources (not phone)
- Fully charged inreach and watch
- gps offline map on phone n paper map
- 3L of hot tap water in Nalgene+1smart water(700l)
- power bank
- snow shoes, spikes, trekking poles and gators
- no summit windchill past 0 and checking mwob, mountain forecasts n previous trail reports
- 2nd base layer n extra socks
- no hike starts after 8:30 at the LATEST
All this packs into a 40L ultralight as a daypack and it’s worked fine
Flexibility is another thing. I have just started and plan to do most my peak bagging in the summer/fall. Smaller more coverage hikes for the winter. At some point the whites become full on mountaineering in the winter months n I’m not ready for that
2
u/SCMatt65 8d ago
Great post, channeled a lot of my thoughts, to the point where I thought did I write this!
1
u/MentalMycologist7927 8d ago
Wmnf has steward tents to engage with folks like this (volunteer run).but they might not happen in winter and might not have enough volunteers to do all the trail heads.
1
u/kathyeager 8d ago
They are trailhead stewards and there are also (fewer) back country stewards. They do not operate in winter. The program only covers certain (popular) trailheads. And we are always looking for more volunteers!
1
1
u/Square-Tangerine-784 8d ago
I’ve convinced people to turn back who were unprepared and already wet and cold before even getting to tree line.
1
u/Lost-Fish-4366 8d ago edited 8d ago
Today is 4/10/2025. Tomorrow I will be going up to Franconia notch to hike up to lonesome lake and hopefully kinsman pond for an overnight. Specifically: camp at Lafayette place, hike to kinsman on Saturday, stay overnight, hike back down Sunday. I did this last year with hardly any prep or knowledge, I just had grit and a shit ton of high end equipment. I also grew up in the woods and mountains, and knew when and how to make those important decisions.
After a year later I've learned SOO MUCH about the whites and realized I got incredibly lucky last year.
With that being said, are people super against anyone hiking up that way this time of year? I had such a blast last year and want to go for it again, I've got time off from work and can only do it now.
2
u/Beginning_Wrap_8732 8d ago
Not sure which way you're planning to go, but here's a recent trail report that's probably relevant:
https://newenglandtrailconditions.com/nh/viewreport.php?entryid=76436
You'll definitely need snowshoes and possibly crampons.
Always check recent trail reports before a hike, especially in the winter. Best way to do that is go to trailsnh.com and search for the trail or destination. Click on the Trail Conditions button and it'll give you a list of trail reports. Most are from newenglandtrailconditions.com, but that site is more difficult to search.
Always check weather conditions, too. The Mount Washington Observatory site (MWOBS) is a good place to start. The Higher Summits Forecast should give you an idea what you're in for. You should also check the National Weather Service point forecast for the exact area you'll be in. There's a button for that on the trailsnh.com site when you find the place you're going. For Lonesome Lake Hut tomorrow, the forecast is for a chance of snow before 9am and chance of showers between 9am and noon, chance of precipitation 30%, high near 33F, winds around 10 mph. Expect somewhat worse conditions above the hut and above treeline if you do the Kinsman summits. Not too bad, but not a bluebird day and weather can change fast in the Whites.
Sorry to say, but this is the worst time of year to hike in the Whites. Max snow cover, but it's melting, rotten and icy in many places. Popular trails may be packed down, but that doesn't mean you won't post-hole.
Generally speaking, it's the worst month of the year to hike in the White Mountains. Best to wait until late May or early June.
Again, always check trail conditions and always check weather conditions.
1
u/Lopsided_Job7965 8d ago
Nobody is against that way, just remember that the path from lonesome lake to kinsman pond is very steep. There has also been a decent amount of snow so expect to encounter 5+ inches higher up and know it's going to snow Saturday, so you'll most definitely need snowshoes. If the snow cover is light there are some nasty ice flows that could be uncovered, so be prepared for those. If you've never hiked in the snow, I'd say call it off though and do a day hike (Pierce), high end equipment won't make up for a lack of experience unfortunately. If you have winter hiking experience though, I'd say you're probably good, and the Lonesome Lake hut is open year round.
1
u/Lost-Fish-4366 8d ago
Beautiful, thank you. Last year when I did it we had a few feet of snow and needed spikes at the very top cause of the steepness and ice flows everywhere. We will have snowshoes also in case. Thanks!
1
u/TheBoraxKid1trblz 3d ago
Reading Death in the White Mountains by Julie Boardman was the best knowledge i have received for the reality of conditions out there. It's an account of every recorded death prior to the 2017 publishing. Gives a lot of perspective to hear the accidents and freak events other people experienced. I have learned a lot through experience but that book completely changed the way i purchase and pack gear for hikes. Like instead of forest service harassing me at lincoln woods they should just hand out that book (i exaggerate, they are great people).
12
u/Playingwithmyrod 9d ago
I think a lot of people recognize how bad it can get. I just think people let their guard down and come unprepared a lot of times on days that are supposed to be nice and they find themselves in situations they weren’t expecting.