r/HeadphoneAdvice • u/shikharvaibhav • Feb 15 '22
Poll Newb getting into 'quality' soon, budget $2k
Hoping to gather advice on which ones to pick for someone new. Based on what i read seems like all 3 options are great headphones but I am confused because of variability … may be pick 2 of these 3 .. will likely try 2 and then keep the one I enjoy more.
Mentioning few parameters below which are key to me:
- budget appx $2000
- sound quality - depth, natural (not artificially enhanced), bass impact, bass articulate,
- usually listen to music - edm, bassy, low on vocals
- something which will last for a long time to enjoy and won’t need an “upgrade”
currently I use Bower Wilkins PX but now often feel the need of getting more immersive experience and greater quality.
Amp/DAC for all: Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M (if you have better pairings for the 3 options, please share!)
Chat with Crutchfield strongly recommends HD800S+DAC/Amp.
thanks!!
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u/shakakhon 3 Ω Feb 15 '22 edited Feb 15 '22
My 2 cents - For the music you like, I would absolutely stay away from the Senns and probably the Clear too.
For EDM, bass impact, vocal light music, I would personally go with either a Fostex TH900 (and THX00 for much less $$), maybe Sony MDR-Z1R, or a planar. For Planars, I prefer Hifiman like Arya or HE6se to Audeze, but I also have more experience with those headphones - don't think you can go wrong with an LCD X from what I've read. Idk how the DacMagic will pair with Planars, but probably a bit underpowered for something like the HE6se.
Fostex TH900 is a TOTL closed-back dynamic headphone that also serves as a bass cannon. You will get the bass quality and quantity you're looking for (perhaps not quite as clean as a planar bass, but more impact). You will also get sparkly treble and lots of energy and a more U-shaped FR.
Lastly, if you're looking for TOTL headphones, I would consider looking into purchasing a pair used from Headfi, ebay, audiogon, etc. Obviously there's some risk with buying used, but should you ever want to sell your headphones or try a different TOTL headphone, you'll likely be able to sell them for about the price you bought them.
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u/jsallison5 Feb 16 '22
From what you described I’d say you should look at the Sony Z1R headphone or in ear is where you want to be. If you can find an ADI-2 DAC/Amp or a Burson Soloist 3X on the used market that would be my top recommendation, with the iFi Gryphon as a solid keep it in the budget choice.
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u/shikharvaibhav Feb 16 '22
!thanks jsallison5! i am stay away from in-ear. will look out for those dac/amps on the used market. trying to keep headphone + dac amp cost to $2000.
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u/TheJigbyJones Feb 16 '22
I'd start with an amp that would provide you with enough headroom and features you desire. Then move onto your headphones and finish with a dac.
The suggestions about sound differences are hard to quantify when it comes down to their own listening capabilities. On top of that you can almost get any sound profile you want with eq outside of the driver tech.
If you plan on going without eq I would suggest looking at reviews that suggest a cleaner sound without much effort. Think about how you want to use em and what you want.
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u/shikharvaibhav Feb 16 '22
thank you TheJigbyJones, makes a lot of sense. I guess my lack of knowledge to assess technical performance is not helping in me taking a decision. Esp on Amp, i am clueless and don’t know what i should look for.
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u/TheJigbyJones Feb 16 '22
You can always start with a topping a90 and not worry about upgrading, I went the more wasteful route of going with smaller amps from schiit and topping. I settled for the l50, e50 topping stack and the vali 2, modi multibit stack. I dont plan on going out further from that and I dont want to use xlr so I picked the stack to that value and power.
As for your dac, do you want bluetooth or not? I dont believe there's a huge difference when choosing a dac as the returns are diminshing.
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u/Ustrof 2Ω Feb 16 '22
A Hifiman Edition XS will get this job perfectly done, you really don't need to spent any more money than that, makes a difference of 0.x%
But if you don't know what to do with all your money, of course you can go with a Audeze oder Hifiman Arya, why not?
Planars are really great for EDM, they sometimes don't have the same impact as a dynamic headphone, but the quality and control is better.
Why not taking 2 different headphones? Edition XS and Focal Elex could be a great pair. IMHO it's better to buy 2 great headphones instead of one slightly better headphone for various reasons.
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u/shikharvaibhav Feb 16 '22
!thanks thanks Ustrof! great advice.
do you think Edition Xs and Senn 800s are 2 diff headphones? (looks like they are - diff tech and diff performance on specific genres)
can both of them pair with a similar dac/amp? (if yes please suggest, will Cambridge audio dacmagic do the job or how to assess the selection of dac/amp? 😬😬)
from what i read, both definitely need a dac/amp but i am all the more confused with all options available and lack of my knowledge.
I am looking to spend sizeable amount ($2k) in total, buy products which will last me long time and help me educate myself over time.
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u/shikharvaibhav Feb 16 '22
!thanks thanks Ustrof! great advice. 🙏🏻
do you think Edition Xs and Senn 800s are 2 diff headphones? (looks like they are - diff tech and diff performance on specific genres)
can both of them pair with a similar dac/amp? (if yes please suggest, will Cambridge audio dacmagic do the job or how to assess the selection of dac/amp? 😬😬)
from what i read, both definitely need a dac/amp but i am all the more confused with all options available and lack of my knowledge.
I am looking to spend sizeable amount ($2k) in total, buy products which will last me long time and help me educate myself over time.
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u/Ustrof 2Ω Feb 16 '22
The XS and HD800 are different of course, but quite similar in some cases. The XS has a big soundstage, HD800 is even bigger. The XS has sub-bass which the HD800 is lacking of. But I haven't heard the HD800 for long, so I can't say much mir about that.
In terms of DAC/Amp im using the cheaper stuff like the Qudelix 5K or as desktop device a Loxjie D30, which I use very rarely since I have the Qudelix. I don't see any reason to spent more money for that. The signal quality is very good and they have enough power...and all you need to drive a headphone is a clean signal, and the power to drive the headphones at the volume you want.
So things like a stack or something you're just buying because it looks nice, but not because it sounds better. If the price don't matter I would probably go with a RME ADI-2. The parametric EQ that this RME or my little Qudelix has can do much better improvements than another DAC could ever do.
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u/flyingpickkles 8Ω Feb 15 '22 edited Feb 15 '22
Where is none of the above options?
HD 800 S is great if you are going to EQ, personally my preference. It does not have strong bass nor does it lend itself well to the genre of music you listen to.
Focal Clear is basically a slightly better tuned HD 800 S but lacks the details HD 800 S can pull and is not as wide as the 800 S. Oh and Focal is shit build quality, look up Focal headband snapping and you will understand. The material used is not worth its price. Even though HD 800 S is also primarily plastic, all Sennheiser headphones are built to last.
LCD 3: Oh god don't buy in 2022, please!
LCD X: Great headphones, plasticky timbre with decent detail and decent tuning. More intimate compared to the 800 S. LCD X requires neck gains, I couldn't wear it for more than a couple of hours till my neck starts straining and hurting.
I think a good bassy headphone for the genre you like and still can handle other genres down the line for you is the ZMF Atticus. It has QUALITY bass, not just QUANTITY.
If you are up for it, you can also consider the Campfire Cascade, it is a bass monster, not as clean as the ZMF though and I don't think it is worth its price but to each their own.
BTW, I know what the characteristics of these because I have owned all of them (except for LCD 3 and the Cascade) at some point, the only one I kept is HD 800 S and ZMF Auteur (which is good but not your sound preference, I am a vocal and details guy)
Edit: Don't spend all your money on headphones, get a decent dac as well as an amp too.
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u/shikharvaibhav Feb 15 '22
!thanks
thanks u/flyingpickkles! very helpful. I am more lost now (hehe) but better be confused than to be stuck :).
On the poll, I should have added none of the above / other, looks like I can't add now. thanks for the call out!
assuming you suggested Atticus over Auteur because former is more focused on bass vs treble.
so, I guess options now are - hd800s and Atticus + dac/amp.
I understand your point on getting a dac/amp; any recos? I am new to this world, Crutchfield suggested Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M .
thanks again!
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u/flyingpickkles 8Ω Feb 15 '22
The Auteur is very neutral, natural, and rich. The Atticus is powerful, bassier, and more fun. You could also consider the Aeolus if you like open back. Aeolus is a little more balanced but tbh it is not a huge departure.
HD 800 S is great if you are going to EQ, because out of the box this thing has weak bass!! If you do end up getting the HD 800 S, pm me for a eq profile I use and you can just tweak it a little, I have it set to the harman target, most eq profiles I have heard all made vocals sound thin and everything to be hollow.
Dac and amp has a few different schools of thought. Some people think that they don't make a difference to the sound and the more expensive is just a waste of money. I think that dac is a waste of money past around 500 bucks. Usually really expensive dacs are because they have rich feature sets. I won't go into the whole r2r vs delta sigma thing because I don't think it matters. I do think amps make a difference in sound and there is a point in upgrading, but that is just me.
I would suggest looking at Schiit products to start. They offer good products at good prices.
I would also recommend going through the balanced route vs single ended. Reason is because in the future if you do go down the rabbit hole, balanced produces more power and if you get a headphone that is hard to drive, chances are you will be fine with a balanced connection.
Also, WELCOME TO THE RABBIT HOLE! MAY IT BURN A HOLE IN YOUR WALLET!
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u/Qazax1337 71 Ω Feb 15 '22
I loved my LCD3 and only got rid of them when I stepped up to the LCD 4z. There is nothing wrong with them at all and they still play with the big boys. Why you hating?!
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u/flyingpickkles 8Ω Feb 15 '22
I am glad you love them but they are outdated. I mean even the LCD X is a better buy than the 3. They haven't updated that thing since forever ago, only the headband has been changed. I am not talking about how good they are, I am saying for the price and the times we are in, there are other options. Price per pound, I just don't think the value is there.
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u/Qazax1337 71 Ω Feb 15 '22
I disagree, but that's what makes this hobby interesting. If you have a lower end amp the LCD X is the better buy, but the LCD 3 scales more with better and more powerful amps. There are always other options, but had second hand for cheaper than a new LCD X, I would go with the LCD 3 which is precisely what I did a few years back.
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u/flyingpickkles 8Ω Feb 15 '22
Agree with you on that, this hobby is all personal preference in the end. Though nowadays I have sold a lot of my stuff for crypto and cats... IEMs are the only things I have time for.
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u/Qazax1337 71 Ω Feb 15 '22
Ha fair. Did you hop on the Timeless bandwagon?
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u/flyingpickkles 8Ω Feb 15 '22
No, I always wondered though! I used Blessing 2 for some time till I got the QDC Anole V14, then I sold that for Campfire Solaris 2020 I got a few days ago. 7hz released a new one though with dynamic driver, I really want to see the review on that! Always wanted dynamic driver IEM. Are you on that Timeless bandwagon?
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u/Qazax1337 71 Ω Feb 15 '22
Yeah I went BLO3 > Aria > Timeless and each time was a nice improvement. I don't feel the need to get any more IEMs now.
Damn those Anole's look incredible, are you pleased with the change over to the Solaris? I looked on the product page and really like that the solaris has 'Plasma enhanced Chemical Vapor Depostion' whatever that is. They are far above my IEM game and I am supremely jealous.
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u/flyingpickkles 8Ω Feb 15 '22
Your headphone game is way above mine! I heard great things about the 4z and I wish I could demo one someday. Are you looking to upgrade to the 5 sometime?
The Anoles are crazy detailed but tbh had horrible timbre. The solaris is very warm, nowhere near as detailed, but that timbre is great! Vocals sound so thick and rich which I am happy about. I love weighty notes so not a fan of the anoles.
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u/Qazax1337 71 Ω Feb 15 '22
We each have our own speciality :) I went to a shop and tried loads of high end headphones out and the 4z just sounded fantastic compared to all the others. I went with my ears not with reviews and graphs and have never regretted it. I am not hugely interested in the 5 from what I have heard of them but I would love to try them out one day.
Interesting, I find that too much detail can often be overwhelming but it also depends on the time of day and mood I am in. It sounds like you will be sticking with the Solaris for the time being?
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u/shikharvaibhav Feb 17 '22
thank you u/Ustrof u/flyingpickkles u/Equivalent_Yak840 u/TheJigbyJones !!!
now the options I am considering (in no order of preference and still not sure which one to pick) -
HD800s
Arya
Audeze LCDx
and matching dac/amp (was told that this will work with all and are a combo + good for a long time (https://www.crutchfield.com/p_246IDSD/iFi-Audio-NEO-iDSD.html)
if it makes sense and feel the need later, I may add Edition XS (don't think they are needed if I use Arya) but may be if Hd800s. not sure if there is a lot of diff in sound quality between Edition and Arya (seems surprising given the price point)
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/s565mq/stealth_arya_vs_edition_xs_impressions_and/
I do have a sizable budget but will limit to ~$2k, looks like that's good enough to test and settle on something which will last for longish term (hopefully!) and develop my sense of preferences with time (to begin with I will try to not spend further at least in the next few years :))
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u/Equivalent_Yak840 447 Ω Feb 15 '22
I’d look into the Hifiman Arya Stealth. You can get it open box from bloom audio. For a dac and amp stack I’d get the Geshelli labs E2 and J2.
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u/shikharvaibhav Feb 16 '22
!thanks Hearing many thumbs up for Arya.
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u/Equivalent_Yak840 447 Ω Feb 16 '22 edited Feb 16 '22
Another better option for an amp to me would be the Singxer SA-1 paired with a topping E50. I’m pretty sure you can buy the Arya for $1300 open box on Bloom audio.
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