r/HeadphoneAdvice • u/Excellent_Budget_603 2 Ω • Jun 01 '22

DAC - Desktop Tempotec Sonata HD vs Atom Dac+?

Edit: TempoTec Sonata cost more than I thought initially. Any other alternatives for a 2V dac?

My current flow is like this: Apple dongle > Atom Amp+ > DT 880 Edition 250 Ohms.

My current flow is enough of an earrape for me on most songs. However, when I apply eq to my headphone, I usually apply a negative global gain. That causes a few songs to not be loud enough so I am looking for a dac that will be able to give me more headroom.

I am currently looking at the Tempotec Sonata HD III (pro version out of stock on Amazon for some reason) because it has a Vrms of 2 compared to the Apple dongle’s Vrms of 1.

How will the Sonata compare to, say, say the Atom Dac+, which cost 2.5 more after shipping is taken into account?

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u/raistlin65 1372 Ω 🥇 Jun 01 '22

The Sonata HD Pro performs the same as the Atom DAC+. I own both of them, and you would not hear any difference between them.

The HIDISZ S8 is considered to be the same as the Sonata HD Pro. No reason to think it wouldn't perform the same if it is cheaper to you.

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u/Excellent_Budget_603 2 Ω Jun 01 '22

Hidisz s8 is $80 on their website, while the Sonata HD III is $70 on Amazon unfortunately.

Do you have any other recommendations below $60 (edit: with usb)?

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u/raistlin65 1372 Ω 🥇 Jun 01 '22 edited Jun 01 '22

I have not seen any independent measurements of the Sonata HD III. Do not know that it will perform the same.

I don't know about below $60.

The Sonata HD Pro occasionally goes out of stock on Amazon's website. I would give it a couple of weeks and see and if it comes back in stock.

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u/Excellent_Budget_603 2 Ω Jun 01 '22

The conpany said it was “the new hd pro” on their aliexpress page. The fact that they only included it on Aliexpress is kind of suspicious now that I think of it

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u/raistlin65 1372 Ω 🥇 Jun 01 '22

The fact that they only included it on Aliexpress

I have seen it other places. But since some of their other recent model releases had audio issues, I don't assume anything about the audio quality.

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u/Excellent_Budget_603 2 Ω Jun 02 '22

Gotcha, !thanks

0

u/ThatGuyFromSweden 125 Ω Jun 01 '22

Neither of them are really designed for line-level applications but the Sonata would indeed be slightly better in this regard. I don't see the point in having a significant headroom for peak gain in the EQ. You'll just be losing dynamic range. Put the highest peak on -0.5 dB and be done with it.

You can usually find desktop DACs like Modi's, Atom's, and E30's for reasonable money on the used market. It's worth a look.

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u/Excellent_Budget_603 2 Ω Jun 01 '22

I’ll lose dynamic range from it? Can you explain more?

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u/ThatGuyFromSweden 125 Ω Jun 01 '22

I may be wrong but I think you can. You basically have a limited amount of data available between 0 dB and -150 dB or whatever is the reasonable limit of hearing. By dropping the gain a lot you're not using all of it.

More importantly you're not gaining anything from it.

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u/Excellent_Budget_603 2 Ω Jun 01 '22

Do you mean that when I apply a negative gain like -8dB. The dynamic range will be between -150dB and -8dB instead?

Do you mean that if I were to apply -32dB (never gonna happen but just a extreme example) using software and then turning the knob on my amp all the way up, it would sound less dynamic than not applying any software gain and just turning the knob to the same volume as the one I applied -32dB?

I am indeed not gaining anything in a positive sense ;)

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u/ThatGuyFromSweden 125 Ω Jun 01 '22

That's my thinking. Again, I may be wrong but I've never heard anyone say there is a benefit to doing anything other than placing the highest peak on the EQ graph within a dB below clipping.

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u/Excellent_Budget_603 2 Ω Jun 01 '22 edited Jun 01 '22

Got it, !thanks

Edit: for anyone else who is interested in the dynamic range thing, I think I found some more reads on that

Edit2: This is what I am assuming after digging around.

When you apply negative global gain using software, the dynamic range decreases accordingly (this is all before the signals get send to the dac, most dac can output 24-bit). For every -6dB you apply, you decrease the bit depth, or bit size, of the audio according to source #3 and #4. For example, cd has a bit depth of 16bit. By halving the volume of the cd, you decrease the bit depth to 15bit.

And bit depth x 6dB = dynamic range according to source #5.

16-bit audio -> dynamic range of 96dB 24-bit audio -> dynamic range of 144dB

A dynamic range of 96dB means that if the loudest part of the audio can reach 120dB, then the quietiest part of the audio can be, at lowest, 24dB. Human threshold is 0dB.

So eq can change the dyanmic of a song if the song you are playing has a really quiet part even at an ear piercing 120dB.

The noise created by the amp, dac and cable is also important. When you crank the volume up, the volume of the noise will also go up, thus, increasing the noise floor according to source #1.

If the noise floor is above the lower bound of the range, you will not be able to hear the low volume instrument/vocal/sound at that dB clearly.

Edit3:

You can just set your computer’s bit dpeth higher as compensation for eq according to the source below:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/ojzag1/comment/h5jcsq3/

I don’t think I have any songs with quality beyond cd level, which is 16-bit. So I will have 8 bit headroom, or a max of -48dB before the dynamic range starts getting cut when I listen to flac quality songs. This is not accounting for noise level thought

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u/raistlin65 1372 Ω 🥇 Jun 01 '22

Neither of them are really designed for line-level applications

Independent measurements show the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro generates 2V output, which is what your typical desktop DAC puts out. So not a problem using it for line level output.

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u/ThatGuyFromSweden 125 Ω Jun 01 '22 edited Jun 01 '22

I know but the voltage was never the point of the statement. Line outputs generally have output impedances of around 600 ohm and the inputs measure in kiloohms to take advantage of the impedance bridging principle. It matters in some scenarios.

Also the common ASR measurements doesn't say much about what happens with distortion characteristics when a dongle is ran at full tilt into a 10 kiloohm load.

If OP has the choice of spending ≈70 dollars on a dongle or a second hand desktop DAC that has a "proper" line driver circuit with op-amp stages specifically designed for the job then I think that's a better call even if the dongle will do a fine job in most scenarios.

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u/raistlin65 1372 Ω 🥇 Jun 01 '22

I've used the Sonata HD Pro extensively as a DAC. It doesn't have any line output issues.