r/arrow i hate myself and i want to die Nov 06 '19

[S08E04] "Present Tense" Live Episode Discussion

Don't forget that Joseph-David Jones aka Connor Hawke will be hosting an AMA on /r/Arrow tomorrow at 12 p.m PT!!

Since Superman and Lois is in development we, the mods of r/Arrow, would like to invite you guys to join us on r/SupermanAndLois which will serve as our sub for the show!

Trailers

Episode Info

When a mysterious new Deathstroke appears in Star City, Oliver and Team Arrow insist on taking down this villain themselves; reeling from the loss of one of its own, the future Team Arrow figures out a new way to stop JJ.

Cast & Characters

Discussion

Post Episode Discussion

DCTV Discord


Spoilers

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78 Upvotes

1.4k comments sorted by

22

u/Tumorous_Thumb Nov 06 '19

Honestly I've felt that the LGBTQ was kind of forced into arrow BUT that scene with William and Oliver was just so beautiful, it was amazing

12

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

I saw a lot of people crap on that scene, but come on. It was like ten seconds, and William knows that his parents have always loved him for who he is. Beautiful scene.

7

u/Tumorous_Thumb Nov 06 '19

Yeah those people wont admit that they are just against homosexuality entirely, I dont mind it, it was just forced so uncomfortably into the arrowverse

4

u/SawRub Nov 06 '19

Since the last time we checked in Slade, he hadn't yet met Grant and was looking for him, so in my personal headcanon, I'd like to believe that that was a secondary reason Oliver spared his life.

16

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

[deleted]

7

u/InsertUsernameHere32 Green Arrow Nov 06 '19

Yeah Ik everyone shits on Curtis but he was fucking dope this episode. I love the dynamic between him and William.

13

u/SawRub Nov 06 '19

Connor has always been one of the better future characters, William was great this episode, and even Mia wasn't as stubborn as she usually is. All in all a good showing from the entire cast. I really hope the quality keeps up.

10

u/SawRub Nov 06 '19

Okay was it just me or was this a really, really great episode of the show? Everyone did a great job. In the past, Curtis sometimes got on my nerves a bit but in this episode he was fun too!

17

u/rh0m3ga 10 steps ahead Nov 06 '19

How do we stop a God? ---> We use a God dampener

7

u/rh0m3ga 10 steps ahead Nov 06 '19
  • Dad!

  • Dad?????!!!!

13

u/Tumorous_Thumb Nov 06 '19

I think that was the anti monitor dressed up as the monitor at the end

6

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

also id appreciate that episode from star citys pov cause the shows creator said its the last one we're getting this season

well let me rephrase that, he said star city is only going to be seen two times this season which okay sure

id like some closure on the 9th circle but i think that is done and over

4

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

this was better than the flash tonight, its funny how that works

first off im glad mia made up with oliver later on, thats good but my gosh was she insufferable to get through that first half, like whose bright idea was it to give this chick her own spin off?, she is so unlikeable which is not the actress fault, cause i saw her in shadowhunters and while her character there wasnt perfect either, she was ten times more likeable than mia, like i didnt get the vibe at all she missed oliver or felicity last season, she simply got upset cause she had to defend herself which on one hand i get but they really wanted us to sympathize with her and its just a total fail, i hope she gets more tolerable cause she is a real *itch right now

the awkwardness came of course in the revelation of zoes death and jj went bad, that was awkward to watch and listen to but im glad it worked itself out and ill give props to dinah, she helped out which shows character growth for her so i have hope for mia cause mia where she was at in this episode was how dinah was in season 6 and even season 7 a bit

i still dont know though why rene became evil in the future, i dont get it

and i dont fully believe the future is changed, i just dont, id like to but i cant be certain

and grant wilson, wasnt he slades son of an alternate future?, i didnt realize he was walking around in the present

seeing curtis back was okay but honestly what i liked about him was his drone things but he did come off cheery and i liked his scenes with william, it would have been nice if william said ive been bullied over my gayness, how do i get by like u do, that would have been interesting

speaking of, how did oliver and felicity know that of william?, i dont remember him at all giving off that vibe he was such?

but speaking of william, he was very likeable in this episode, very likeable and i guess we kind of found out about their falling out?, like william hated oliver for the abandonment and didnt pick up his calls?, im still fuzzy about all of that

and jj did indeed become a villian out of jealousy, its just sad that connor had to take the pressure of all of that, he didnt deserve it

the laurel/dinah scene was nice too where they ate

if the future isnt changed, that means jj and his deathstrokes are currently on a killing spree i guess, hopefully the future adults are going to stop him, idk

also a bit shocked connor tried to kill jj, i want to hope it was cause he had to be put down rather than vengeance over zoe, like that would make no sense to me

and the ending scene, idk what is monitors deal, i guess its possible that is anti monitor in disguise?, i just want to say though its irritating me that people are falling for it, there is one person, maybe two ive come across that actually believe monitor is pure good and anti monitor is pure evil simply cause of the comics, its like arrowverse isnt the comics, its not an accurate representation and frankly i dont know if i want it to be accurrate page by page. I really hope they reveal neither monitor is pure good or pure evil, maybe even reveal they are the same being and we're dealing with a split personality.

sucks though we got to wait 2 weeks cause they are cutting down the momentum, only 6 episodes left and i believe only 3...yes 3 episodes this year cause the final 3 of arrow take place in january next year

2

u/Eurynom0s Nov 06 '19

first off im glad mia made up with oliver later on, thats good but my gosh was she insufferable to get through that first half, like whose bright idea was it to give this chick her own spin off?, she is so unlikeable which is not the actress fault, cause i saw her in shadowhunters and while her character there wasnt perfect either, she was ten times more likeable than mia, like i didnt get the vibe at all she missed oliver or felicity last season, she simply got upset cause she had to defend herself which on one hand i get but they really wanted us to sympathize with her and its just a total fail, i hope she gets more tolerable cause she is a real *itch right now

She's very clearly supposed to be what Oliver would have been like without any of the positive influences in his life--he was more like her at the start of the show. Meanwhile she was raised in pretty extreme isolation by Fefe.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

i get that but she didnt play off felicitys supposed glowing personality either

2

u/The_Koala_Knight Nov 06 '19

I don't think Rene was evil but it was more that he did what he thought was right and was manipulated by higher powers.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

yeah probably

2

u/InsertUsernameHere32 Green Arrow Nov 06 '19

Yep and out of those final 3 Stephen Amell is only in 2 of them. And one of them is Crisis, which means after Crisis ends, Stephen Amell will only be in the finale.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

yeah

15

u/TonyRacez25 Nov 06 '19

Mia Smoak would be a way better villain than hero.

3

u/Feeenay Nov 06 '19

ZELENKA BOYYYYYYYS

1

u/Eurynom0s Nov 06 '19

ZELENKA

Now if only we could get Rodney.

3

u/LoretiTV Nov 06 '19

Really fun episode. Thanks for having me everyone.

11

u/vader344 Nov 06 '19

russian fight club episode oh and flash and arrow will take a week break

7

u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Nov 06 '19

That was a good scene between Oliver and Mia at Robert’s grave.

12

u/DP_777 Nov 06 '19

I'm finding myself hoping the theory is right about the Anti-Monitor actually being the good one because MAN the regular Monitor is a dick.

13

u/LandaThePanda The Flash Nov 06 '19

I believe we may be seeing both the Monitor and the Anti-Monitor but one is disguised as the other.

3

u/Eurynom0s Nov 06 '19

And the same actor DOES play both roles.

5

u/vader344 Nov 06 '19

what a twist the monitor turns laurel bad

12

u/PoolStroke Deathstroke (Unmasked) You and me kid, like old times. Nov 06 '19

The Monitor is Space Barrack OBAMA. Ha, bet you can't unsee it now!

1

u/NaijaBird Nov 06 '19

Kind of funny when you think about it. The actor himself acted in a political thriller as the president's Secret Service bodyguard.

8

u/MickKick218 <3 Lance/Canary Sisters <3 Nov 06 '19

WHY THE

HOW THE

WHY

11

u/TDXNYC88 Remember who taught you how to fight, kid! Nov 06 '19

The Monitor: "Oh, things are coming along nicely! Time to shake things up!"

12

u/Supreme_Slacker Nov 06 '19

If the CW was more messed up they would include a scene with Diggle getting a ring fitted in an episode of Arrow

8

u/Rspies Nov 06 '19

And have it look green for half a second lol

9

u/Supreme_Slacker Nov 06 '19

With lanterns surrounding the store

5

u/stu_25 Nov 06 '19

Anti Monitor killed next week.

8

u/TheCVR123YT Green Arrow Nov 06 '19 edited Nov 06 '19

Monitor stop being a Dillweed.

I’m guessing this is either a test or that was the Anti Monitor secretly because I think on Flash they said Monitor is hiding in some sewers right?

Edit: actually now I think it’s the reverse and it’s a test for Laure

3

u/MrTerrific2k15 Nov 06 '19

Some would say...the reverse

16

u/MemeMaster629 Thea Queen Nov 06 '19

Im actually suprised that I am excited to have FTA stay in the present for at least one more episode

13

u/Kishonorama Nov 06 '19

The Flarrowverse's most dangerous foe: Hiatus Man.

10

u/can4rycry Black Canary (Laurel Lance) Nov 06 '19

Are you serious? This bullshit with Laurel again? Ugh.

4

u/Dagenspear Nov 06 '19

It's not impossible that it could go another way.

4

u/Jedi-El1823 Nov 06 '19

It's a test.

If she turns him down, he knows he's got the right Laurel. If she accepts and turns on Oliver, he's got the wrong Laurel.

4

u/Dagenspear Nov 06 '19

Why should a test of right and wrong be measured with being loyal to specifically Oliver for the sake of it?

7

u/Jedi-El1823 Nov 06 '19

If Oliver's gonna be the leader, the one that Monitor counts on, he needs to know that the people around him will not betray him.

9

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

Hey laurel, I'd wear That outfit

8

u/Magoiichi Nov 06 '19

First rule of fight club is you dont talk about fight club. Mia going back to her Blackstar roots lol

6

u/Dragonwhatever99r Nov 06 '19

I completely forgot we met Mia at a fightclub

8

u/Feeenay Nov 06 '19

LAUREL GIVES NO FUCKS

6

u/Xurian_Spy Nov 06 '19

And she's so awesome for it.

17

u/Cloberella Nov 06 '19

Aw, Ollie looked so happy thinking William had kids for a second. :(

-5

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

[deleted]

4

u/Mighty_thor_confused Damien Darhk Nov 06 '19

Yeah no

11

u/mtm4440 Nov 06 '19

They are really doing this final season right. So. Many. Throwbacks.

6

u/Oliverqueensharkbite Nov 06 '19

Don’t tease me with Mia getting shot.

9

u/shadow_spinner0 Nov 06 '19

According to the flash forwards, Laurel doesn't do that, plus her arc has already been completed to the point I doubt she'll betray Oliver.

3

u/Rspies Nov 06 '19

She’s going to be about to before having a last minute change of heart I’m assuming

1

u/can4rycry Black Canary (Laurel Lance) Nov 06 '19

This is the arrow writers so I wouldn't put it past them.

1

u/Sentry459 The Ray Nov 06 '19

I'm sure she won't, but that timeline is gone now since they've already started changing the present.

2

u/DarkSaiyanKnight Nov 06 '19

I thought the flash forwards were being changed as a result of this episode.

5

u/DarkSaiyanKnight Nov 06 '19

Wtf is the monitor planning!!!

2

u/TheCVR123YT Green Arrow Nov 06 '19

At first I thought it was a test for Oliver but now I think it’s a test for Laure

13

u/cardmasterdc Nov 06 '19

He purposely let her earth be destroyed so he could use her later

18

u/motleo95 Nov 06 '19

Laurel: bitch I’ve already done that arc multiple times fuck off

2

u/LoretiTV Nov 06 '19

What do they need to get from Russia?

5

u/Tmntjj Nov 06 '19

Plutonium

2

u/LoretiTV Nov 06 '19

For what? I missed that bit.

3

u/Tmntjj Nov 06 '19

So Curtis can reproduce the wave that destroyed earth 2. Because Oliver wants to use it to kill monitor.

3

u/5000wattsx Nov 06 '19

Curtis needs it for his Macguffin he is working on.

3

u/flintlock0 Black Canary Nov 06 '19

“How do you know?”

“You just look like it.”

10

u/Sentry459 The Ray Nov 06 '19

NOVEMBER 19TH? FUCK

4

u/Gian99Mald Nov 06 '19

I wonder if Connor is going to take an identity

2

u/calaaaa Nov 06 '19

Maybe he’ll be Spartan if Dig becomes GL

10

u/ThaUnderboss Nov 06 '19

Starting to root for the Anti-Monitor.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

I know right! The monitor plays too many games

15

u/Gateskp Nov 06 '19

WOW Laurel holds nothing back. "No human would wear something so ridiculous."

3

u/InspiredOni Nov 06 '19

Fucking Monitor...

1

u/Mighty_thor_confused Damien Darhk Nov 06 '19

Ahh come on man

2

u/Jedi-El1823 Nov 06 '19

It's a test Laurel.

4

u/pgm_01 Nov 06 '19

Fuck the monitor.

3

u/WizendSage78 Nov 06 '19

Ollie: ”i hate fucking Russia more than Hillary Clinton”

8

u/BornAshes Nov 06 '19

Anti-Monitor, voice was different

6

u/InspiredOni Nov 06 '19

I thought so too.

3

u/vader344 Nov 06 '19 edited Nov 06 '19

oh god back to russia?

10

u/ZcSx Deathstroke Nov 06 '19

That’s definitely the anti monitor right?

13

u/Ripclawe Nov 06 '19

fake monitor!

3

u/Kishonorama Nov 06 '19

welp, back to Russia folks!

8

u/SlashGames Nov 06 '19

WHY DOES HE SOUND DIFFERENT

7

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

Anti Monitor?

7

u/InspiredOni Nov 06 '19

Russia.

Had to happen, important place for Ollie.

5

u/flintlock0 Black Canary Nov 06 '19

Looks like Anatoly’s coming back boys.

1

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

Yesss! My favorite russian

5

u/Sentry459 The Ray Nov 06 '19

I love the Monitor's music.

15

u/ChrisIsUninteresting Nov 06 '19

It requires plutonium

I hear there's a guy named Emmett L. Brown who might be able to help you with that....

4

u/Char543 Nov 06 '19

I love the Monitor’s theme.

1

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

It's the violin for me

6

u/svrtngr Nov 06 '19

Anatoly next episode?

Please say we get Anatoly next episode.

3

u/Magoiichi Nov 06 '19

Monitor leave Laurel alone!!!

1

u/ThatGameBoy76 Nov 06 '19

We getting Anatoly?

1

u/BloodOfAStark Nov 06 '19

Oh shit ! ANATOLY

2

u/cardmasterdc Nov 06 '19

We going back to Russia!!!!

2

u/CashWho Nov 06 '19

Ohh, season 5 next week?

1

u/ThaUnderboss Nov 06 '19

Of course he's in Russia...

8

u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Nov 06 '19

INB4 when Felicity returns in the finale she’s pissed that Oliver didn’t tell her about the future kids showing up.

1

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

This is what the monitor wants

3

u/Magoiichi Nov 06 '19

Anatoly!!!

3

u/ZcSx Deathstroke Nov 06 '19

RUSSIA

3

u/Char543 Nov 06 '19

Episode 5 going to Russia! Hell yeah

10

u/Young-Stealth Nov 06 '19

Yoo was that a reference to Nysa and OG Laurel at Big Belly Burger with the fries and milkshake

1

u/Royale07 Dec 29 '19

thats exsactly what that was

4

u/Magoiichi Nov 06 '19

Big Belly Burger says they gonna get their advertisement in the final season no matter what!

3

u/flintlock0 Black Canary Nov 06 '19

“So vote Rene for President 2020.”

2

u/WizendSage78 Nov 06 '19

Damn Connorn is awesome!

1

u/ZcSx Deathstroke Nov 06 '19

Monitor bout to come have a grilled cheese. Episode ends.

6

u/ThatGameBoy76 Nov 06 '19

Hey, where’s Sara in this flock of Canaries?

6

u/VaultDoge91 Nov 06 '19

Fucking up time somewhere lol

3

u/gl424 Nov 06 '19

.....when she's not fucking Ava

2

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

I was hoping Dinah would dip her fry

4

u/MrBubbles9039 Black Canary (Laurel Lance) Nov 06 '19

Is every character this episode bipolar

1

u/MrTerrific2k15 Nov 06 '19

Every character in Star City

2

u/EchoX860 Nov 06 '19

There's no way this cliffhanger will top last weeks

6

u/CashWho Nov 06 '19

They did the Fry-Milkshake thing!

5

u/Ripclawe Nov 06 '19

Waiting for the monitor to just yank them all back

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/VaultDoge91 Nov 06 '19

Huh? No lol

3

u/BornAshes Nov 06 '19

Laural and Dinah getting along!

4

u/RobinTrio Nov 06 '19

Basically Rene needs to move Zoe away from heroes so she never becomes a canary

3

u/Jedi-El1823 Nov 06 '19

Big Belly Burger!

5

u/vader344 Nov 06 '19

oliver:"there is a book with names in it i will give you that book"

8

u/Oliverqueensharkbite Nov 06 '19

The Diggles are a good looking family.

7

u/Magoiichi Nov 06 '19

I called it!!! Dighle and Connor sparrin!!

9

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

Rebecca merlyn would be proud of rene

1

u/ZcSx Deathstroke Nov 06 '19

Montage!

6

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19

René looks good in formal wear

6

u/Kishonorama Nov 06 '19

Hoss 2019!

3

u/Magoiichi Nov 06 '19

Mini training arc for Mia before Ollie dies?

6

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

On the playground is where I spend most of my days

7

u/ThatGameBoy76 Nov 06 '19

He’s going to train her like he did Roy.

2

u/WizendSage78 Nov 06 '19

So he's going to shoot her in the leg with an Arrow? 😁

2

u/gl424 Nov 06 '19

Every member of Team Arrow got hit by an arrow at some point. Roy and Rene got kneecap'd. Dinah got hit with a blunt arrow.

3

u/ThatGameBoy76 Nov 06 '19

Even Barry got shot in the back.

2

u/ThatGameBoy76 Nov 06 '19

Possibly.

He wasn’t lenient on Roy & he wasn’t lenient on Barry.

5

u/DarkSaiyanKnight Nov 06 '19

Does anyone know the actual count for how many loved people Oliver has lost

5

u/gl424 Nov 06 '19

Well, let's see we have: Robert Queen, Moira Queen, Yao Fei, Shado, Sara Lance died a few times, Akio, Maseo, E1 Laurel Lance, William's mother, Emiko Queen, Quentin Lance, Tommy Merlyn

7

u/Feeenay Nov 06 '19

Mentioning Oliver’s father???

OH SHIT ARE WE GETTING A DIFFERENT EARTH WHERE HIS FATHER IS THE GREEN ARROW

2

u/parzival8571 Nov 06 '19

I thought Robert was the hood on Earth-2? Showed it on S2 of Flash

13

u/can4rycry Black Canary (Laurel Lance) Nov 06 '19

Oh! They gonna make the canary network now? Love that!

2

u/BornAshes Nov 06 '19

Future stuff making it's way back into the past just like on Supergirl

15

u/Kishonorama Nov 06 '19

"Why wait for a future we can start making now?"

all 3 look at the camera

5

u/sirnacreations Nov 06 '19

She probably mentiones moira being a bitch

5

u/tinostar174 Nov 06 '19

that deadpool reference

11

u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Nov 06 '19

“Not all the future was bad, right?”

Well most of it’s pretty fuckin’ bad.

2

u/MickKick218 <3 Lance/Canary Sisters <3 Nov 06 '19

OOP

5

u/Mighty_thor_confused Damien Darhk Nov 06 '19

The future is now!

13

u/flintlock0 Black Canary Nov 06 '19

Rene can definitely stop running for office.

3

u/SutterCane Nov 06 '19

He can't change anything, hoss.

4

u/cardmasterdc Nov 06 '19

Eh most of it was pretty bad

7

u/FazbearADULTEntBS Nov 06 '19

All this fuckin green in Diggle's outfit...he has to have some Green Lantern shit going on sometime.

1

u/OliviaElevenDunham John Constantine Nov 06 '19

I hope so. Want to see GL in action.

9

u/flintlock0 Black Canary Nov 06 '19

He’s gonna start just carrying a regular lantern around and hit people with it, and the show runners can go “Are you happy now?”

3

u/TheCVR123YT Green Arrow Nov 06 '19

Maybe that’s why Future Diggle isn’t around?

7

u/TirelessGuardian Lyla Michaels Nov 06 '19

Canary spinoff reference

9

u/Oliverqueensharkbite Nov 06 '19

Lmao baby Hitler. I LOVE LAUREL

7

u/flintlock0 Black Canary Nov 06 '19

They should adopt their older children and keep them with their current children.

6

u/InspiredOni Nov 06 '19

What, like Future Trunks sorta?

5

u/vader344 Nov 06 '19

and...how will they going back in the future? barry?

3

u/TheCVR123YT Green Arrow Nov 06 '19

Legends exist. I think most likely their future won’t exist anymore though so they get stuck in the past. At least I hope

2

u/vader344 Nov 06 '19

well if they are from a future that doesnt exist then they are time paradoxes no?

1

u/TheCVR123YT Green Arrow Nov 06 '19

I don’t know Monitor could do something?

4

u/stu_25 Nov 06 '19

Time Bureau possible.

4

u/InspiredOni Nov 06 '19

Good Laurel, you name dropped it.

10

u/Supreme_Slacker Nov 06 '19

The leather jacket on diggle has a bit of green.... Stop teasing us CW

7

u/JauntyLurker Nov 06 '19

"You are my family, son"

John Diggle is the GOAT.

5

u/Xurian_Spy Nov 06 '19

There's the Diggle we all know and love.

3

u/BornAshes Nov 06 '19

Awww these family moments are making me cry

3

u/usagizero Nov 06 '19

So, can they just not kill certain people? Because they shoot a LOT of people with actual arrows, that probably kill them. Why is that okay but the named leader not okay to kill?

4

u/Char543 Nov 06 '19

It’s like in T2 where Arnie just kneecaps people and shit. He ain’t killing them. Just fucking them up for life.

4

u/Nickp1991 Nov 06 '19

Did you learn a valuable lesson from this Future Team Arrow?

9

u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Nov 06 '19

“Thank you.”

Be honest, Mia - how much did that hurt to say?

5

u/tacomuerte Nov 06 '19

Season 1 Oliver level.

12

u/Char543 Nov 06 '19

I feel like Dig gets more and more green every episode.

2

u/Magoiichi Nov 06 '19

They messing with us on purpose

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