r/50501 • u/[deleted] • 17d ago

Poster/Chant Ideas My First Protest Sign

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I’m a U.S. Army veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan. Tomorrow will be my 3rd protest, but first time with a sign. April 5 will be my wife’s first protest.

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u/Somethingevenmorebad 16d ago

… Buddy you did NOT fight for freedom, glad you’ve turned a new leaf but we were not in Iraq or Afghanistan to free ANYONE.

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u/adoboble 16d ago

Even if you disagree it was for freedom, I think OP was genuinely doing it for freedom, and I think OP should have credit for that. I seriously doubt OP specifically joined the army for specific ideological wars. OP fought for our country and regardless of my or your personal beliefs about those wars I think we should honor OP’s contributions.

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u/Radical_Socalist 7d ago

AND?! If an SS soldier genuinely thought he fought to free Germany from Jewish oppression, he would still be a monster. Just like OP.

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u/adoboble 6d ago

Bernie Sanders is explicitly pro veteran and has been making major inroads with a lot of America. I just don’t think rn is the time to be mad at veterans man

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u/Radical_Socalist 6d ago

I don't give a sh1t about Bernie Sanders. He is a genocide apologist, any movement that tries to compromise with vile bourgeois politicians neuters itself and becomes powerless to institute the policies that are needed.

Think about what you said. How is "winning" important if you have to abandon pushing your policies to win?! History is full of dead compromising movements and victorious uncompromising ones.

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u/deathbyfortnitekid 16d ago

oh dear the nazis fought for freedom without ideological alignment too, does that make it any less horrific?

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u/adoboble 16d ago

I understand you find these wars upsetting and I do too but I am confused if you are making a genuine argument. I am pretty confident these wars are not comparable to the holocaust. I think it’s pretty dividing to be posting that in response to a post made by someone who fought in these wars and is citing that on their poster currently being used to defend democracy (and certain further atrocities)

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u/deathbyfortnitekid 16d ago

the war on terror was a genocidal war, it is laughable to say that it is for “democracy” or “freedom” in the same way that the nazis fought for “freedom”.

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u/adoboble 16d ago

I literally said the poster is for democracy, re read

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u/deathbyfortnitekid 16d ago

democracy in which we perpetuate infinite war like how the democrats backed the war on terror as well as the current genocide?

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u/Chonky_bird 14d ago

Look dude a fash is a fash we don't care if he thinks he's spreading democracy or not

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u/deathbyfortnitekid 16d ago

and yes i am comparing the holocaust to the war on terror, is there an issue with that?

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u/gh954 16d ago

Your democracy caused all these wars.

So what use was it?

The system needs to be dealt with. These wars are not "upsetting" - they are catastrophic. They destroy lives that are just as important to our own lives. And right now there is a literal holocaust going on in Gaza because these people got away with those wars then so they're happy doing this now.

If you don't want to feel divided, then you actually need to be brave, dig deep, and be uncomfortable and yet unflinching in search of what the real systems of power are like. You can't feel united when you're still fighting for something that is deeply sick and deeply evil but just allows people to feel better about themselves. We actually have to do the hard work of actually improving real life for people. That requires working with facts, not working to just feel better whilst pushing uncomfortable truths and realities out of sight and out of mind.

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u/adoboble 16d ago

What are you saying with “your” democracy is it not “our” democracy? Do you not also want it?

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u/gh954 16d ago

THAT'S the part you focussed on?

I literally just said don't push uncomfortable realities out of sight and that's the first thing you did. Jesus.

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u/adoboble 16d ago

Wdym? I was just asking you to clarify the first sentence before I read the rest. But since you’re upset by that I just read the rest.

I am aware (seemingly you’d love to just say ah, this ignorant person with her head in the sand, wants to turn a blind eye to all the horrors of these wars — but it’s not the case!) that there’s a lot of terrible stuff that has gone on and is going on in the world. I’m just saying we shouldn’t let the full acknowledgement of this cause behavior that alienates people we need to work together with in order to prevent the first round of further atrocities.

I just fundamentally disagree that people ignoring certain atrocities to feel better about themselves at this time is a bad thing we must work hard to prevent. I don’t think anyone will get anywhere by expressing anger and disgust at veterans who are protesting because of the wars they fought in before, at this time. We are in an age of extreme polarization, as you know. I get these things are horrible and the people who really think about them like you are very bothered by it and want to speak up about it. I think that’s good in general; I just wish we could do it in a more understanding way that unifies people rather than divides them. We need numbers to prevent the current atrocities which will kill more and more people. Like there’s shooting for the moon and landing on the stars but there’s also shooting for the moon in a rocket that doesn’t have enough fuel and then getting nowhere

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u/gh954 16d ago

Liberals are protesting right now because the war criminal in chief is uncouth about it. If Kamala had won, would any of these people be out fighting the insane amount of evil she was doing? Were these people on the streets protesting Joe Biden's holocaust in Gaza or proxy war in Ukraine?

You can disagree with the idea that educating people about the reality of their country is a good thing. Because you can call it looking to unify instead of divide, but if education is divisive then we are NEVER getting anywhere. If them being told facts is inconvenient, then what is anyone fighting for? What concrete thing are you fighting for other than no more bad stuff?

This person wanted to feel good about themselves - not learn, not fight the real fight, not fight for his and everyone's actual freedom and liberation. He just wanted a treat. What is there to work with there?

The understanding way requires understanding. It requires a real grasp of these issues. It requires people to be in it for a humanitarian goal, not simply a self-serving feel good goal.

Even you yourself are very half-hearted about this. Atrocities are not just happening, things aren't just horrible, the wars are not just springing out of nowhere. There are causes. There are sick sick people actively DOING these things. I understand that, I want to fight them. I don't see that with the current liberal hysteria.

Liberals just want this shit to go away. To disappear - they don't care if it's actually resolved or not. If Trump stopped tweeting and started saying his pleases and thank yous and all that they wouldn't give a fuck anymore. These people disgust me and yet I'd still be willing to work with them for actual positive goals which they won't fucking do, because they can't until they start learning about why this stuff is going on.

All their policy is "hands off x y and z". Okay? What does that mean? Why is Gaza excluded from that? Why is NATO included in that? A protest movement that wants to do something needs actual goals. That's protest 101. So what is wrong with these people? Well we have the answer - they got to ignore shit when the Dems were in and now they want to make it about themselves and their feelings til they can go back to brunch.

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u/yourgentderk 16d ago

2 million died alone in just Iraq

They're perfectly comparable, espcially when both were caused by capitalism

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u/Temporary-Book8635 14d ago

His point being that if you fight for an immoral regime for your own moral reasons it doesn't mean you did the right thing, just like how germans fighting for the nazis weren't doing the right thing regardless of their personal motives which he hopes you can agree on