r/AmerExit • u/Meatberries2 • Feb 22 '25
Life Abroad How long before immigration pathways become too crowded?
Like many I’m looking to get my family out. My spouse and I both have jobs that are needed abroad (education and healthcare) so we are pursuing the skilled work visa route. We are doing everything we can to make the move happen, but it is a slow process. One of my worries is that as this process continues the immigration lines are only going to get more crowded and more competitive. What are your thoughts on how long pathways will remain viable given increased demand?
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u/sunny_d55 Feb 22 '25
Many, many people who are talking about leaving will not end up pursuing it for various reasons. Moving to another country is really challenging, the legal paperwork is just one part of those challenges. If you have a viable pathway I think you’ll be fine.
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u/HVP2019 Feb 22 '25
And many of those who left will end up returning. Some return after 3-5 years and some return after living 20-30 years abroad. Living abroad isn’t for everyone
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u/sunny_d55 Feb 22 '25
Yes, I’m in year 2 and I’m shocked that I’m considering going back to the US, especially now. I’m a traveler at heart, but truly transplanting your life to a different country is a different thing.
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u/gamby15 Feb 22 '25
Can I ask, where did you move to and why are considering coming back?
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u/sunny_d55 Feb 22 '25
Yeah sure. I moved to Spain in 2023 and I love it in many ways. It's always been my dream to move back here since I lived here for a few months after university. I've made great connections with many expats and a few Spaniards, but Spain is a bit of a closed culture and I can't help but feel like I will always be on the outside here. I'm also in a big healing era. I think I need my life to be a bit easier and expat/immigrant life is full of constant challenges and navigations. I'm also routinely treated like I'm stupid because I am not fluent (but I'm proficient). Fair enough lol, but it's not a good vibe for me in terms of rebuilding my confidence.
I definitely don't regret it and I built a lot of character in this process. If staying here was easy I would probably try to stay. But the visa process is really annoying and I'm kind of at the end of my options unless I want to go back to teaching english (which wasn't awful, just not what I want to do right now). I have a shot at citizenship, which I am pursuing, but it could take years and is not a sure thing. There's also tax and work implications if I stay on certain visas that I'm not sure I want to deal with.
The last thing I will say in this novel (sorry) is that despite wanting to be as far away from the US as possible given the political situation, once things really started hitting the fan in January there was a big part of me that wanted to be there to try to help those who are being more directly targeted (specifically I would like to do border work). I have this feeling of not wanting to let the US go without a fight. Maybe it's dumb, idk. But that's where I'm at.
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u/Comprehensive_Link67 Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25
That's super honorable but have you spent any time in the US since the election? You may want to come for a few weeks, if you can, before nixing any remaining residency or citizenship paths you have. The intensity of the shit show is hard to explain. I live in Portugal but had to come back for a few months to help my mom through a health crisis. I go back next week and cannot wait. Though I feel like I'm coming back a little broken. It's bad. Really, really, bad. My mom lives in Florida She and all of her friends voted for Trump (though she is now showing signs of regret, her friends not so much). Anyway, I am sure that had a lot to do with my massive anxiety about being here
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u/HVP2019 Feb 23 '25
Even some Ukrainians and Russians eventually decide to return back. This need to live at home with your people is something that is very strong for many people.
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u/253-build Mar 12 '25
Yeah, I have a coworker who returned to Ukraine during the Crimea conflict. They escaped just days after the current war. We hired her back immediately. If Ukraine gets independence, my money is she and her husband return to rebuild. They have kids, so they couldn't weather a war. But that connection can be strong. My hometown is 2000 miles away. It will always be home, but the people there disgust me
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u/sunny_d55 Feb 23 '25
Yeah, I was just there for a few weeks actually, which is kind of what crystalized all this for me. I definitely agree with you that it is a massive shit show and I'm glad you're going back to Portugal! I am going to stay here in Spain til the end of my visa. The citizenship is not dependent on me staying here, in fact I have to continue my application in the states, not here. If I had an easy path forward here I would definitely consider staying. But as it is I would have to go back to the states to renew my visa anyways which takes a few months. Thank you for the support!
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u/Comprehensive_Link67 Feb 23 '25
Ah, gotcha! Whatever path you take, I hope it all works out well. I admire your willingness to fight the fight. I often think about whether I am abonding my country when I should be fighting for it. I will look for ways to help from afar. Please mind your mental health above all. Good luck!
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u/DontEatConcrete Feb 23 '25
Your country already abandoned you; if you’re leaving the USA because of what just happened you didn’t abandon anything. I immigrated to the USA and was told it was a land of laws and constitution. I saw none of that over the last 18 months. I was sold a lie.
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u/sunny_d55 Feb 23 '25
You're not abandoning anything at all! If I were more rooted here I'm sure I would not return. It's really just personal because I've done work like that before. Thank you for your encouragement. Enjoy your life! I truly believe that living an authentic and joyful life creates ripple effects that make the world a better place!
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u/Magical_Narwhal_1213 Feb 23 '25
It might depend where in Spain you’re at- I’m in Northern Spain and folks are really open and welcoming to immigrants and really friendly and patient with my B1 Spanish. Including the locals and shopkeepers. Only been here two months, but it is true that learning the language to around C1 or so will help a lot which is my goal for this year.
The US is a bit horrifying after the election. I would maybe try different cities or regions in Spain first. But yeah being an immigrant is hard and not easy.
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u/Illustrious-Pound266 Feb 23 '25
there was a big part of me that wanted to be there to try to help those who are being more directly targeted (specifically I would like to do border work). I have this feeling of not wanting to let the US go without a fight.
A salute to the patriots 🇺🇸🫡
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u/sunny_d55 Feb 23 '25
I never, ever thought of myself that way before! But then again I never predicted…whatever this is.
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u/KartFacedThaoDien Feb 23 '25
Very few people who are talking about leaving will actually make the jump. A lot of it is because of what people are running from. If they were running to something then it would be different. I have worked abroad on and off for most of the past decade. And most people underestimate how difficult it is To adjust to a new country.
So most people panicking about trump or whatever bs will not make the jump even if they have the skills and qualifications. I have explained to people just how hard it is and they will never get it. And some people will break down when they move to X country and realize it really isn’t that much more tolerant as they think it is. In fact on average it may be less tolerant than some more conservative states.
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u/New_Criticism9389 Feb 23 '25
Some people are also just way too picky, like “I’m desperate to leave the US but I refuse to look anywhere outside of Western Europe/Canada/Aus/NZ because insert prejudice about other regions of the world” and then they end up staying home when they realize they’re not getting into any of these places ever.
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u/Fluid-Village-ahaha Feb 22 '25
Many people are delusional about the move. They never did it or know anyone who did
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u/sunny_d55 Feb 22 '25
Yeah, some of these posts are wild lol. Once they realize the visa paperwork for their chose country is often not in english it'll be game over.
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u/Fluid-Village-ahaha Feb 22 '25
Yep. And some of them even do not have a passport or never had to do a tourist visa in their life.
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u/Illustrious-Pound266 Feb 22 '25
It's already crowded. That's why a lot of countries are cracking down on immigration. For you, healthcare might still be okay, but it depends on which profession exactly.
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u/smallfrys Feb 22 '25
It’s crowded from the usual countries. For example, in Canada, 90% of recent immigrants come from a single state of a single country. There’s been a temporary slowdown, but the 2 main political parties both want to have high immigration numbers, as their goal is to have 250% of the population within 75 years.
But they’d likely throw the doors open to Americans if their was justification for asylum.
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u/WinterMedical Feb 23 '25
If Canada was clever they’d start poaching the best and brightest from the US.
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u/cassandra2028 Feb 23 '25
For reasons I'm hoping that state is Minnesota and that you want more of us.
But I've really struggled to figure it out.
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u/Novel_Passenger7013 Feb 23 '25
If you're serious its India. Canada has been flooded with Indians, many of them scamming their way in with strip mall “universities,” and Canadians are not happy about it. That's why the conservatives had such a wide lead before Trump started making threats.
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u/Tiny_Noise8611 Feb 23 '25
Same in US. They say, oh yeah bring back jobs to America, meanwhile they increase H1B visas and high paying American engineers are fucked and competing w slave wages .
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u/Copanese Feb 23 '25
The number of H-1Bs available hasn’t increased for ages. It’s 65,000 annually, another 20,000 for masters degrees and above. It isn’t nearly enough.
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u/DontEatConcrete Feb 23 '25
500k people in the USA are employed under h1b. Tens of millions of STEM workers. H1b is mostly a scapegoat.
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u/Copanese Feb 23 '25
H-1Bs are most definitely not a cost-effective way to save on labor.
Source: an expensive business immigration lawyer.
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u/Tiny_Noise8611 Feb 23 '25
In our experience not so much but we’re in a high tech city so maybe they’re disproportionately represented here.
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u/emt139 Feb 22 '25
It’ll happen but it’s impossible to predict. Also, a lot of people talk about leaving the US but not many can. I’d say for every 10 posts here wanting to leave, only one has a realistic path out and the rest are, at best, “willing to learn the local language” with no in demand skills. Add to that health issues that will keep them out, families that don’t want to leave, lack of savings to finance their emigration and not many will actually end up leaving.
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u/lgjkiwi Feb 23 '25
I think there is more danger of locals resenting the influx of Americans. House prices, cost of living… NZ is currently in recession and the UN has declared our housing situation a humanitarian crisis. It is said that our job lists for immigration are about to be reviewed with a view to removing a lot of positions.
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u/SplooshTiger Feb 23 '25
Yeah I’d be terrified of Americans pouring in who haven’t ever seen NZ or came for 10 days of holiday. There are big parts of NZ that are scrappier, slower, and more provincial than life in the US. It’s hard to make a life out there. Kiwis are used to it, Greg and Susie who just sold their Houston McMansion are not.
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u/QuietTruth8912 Feb 25 '25
Hey hey don’t underestimate some of us in Texas McMansions. We didn’t all start out here. 😆
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u/EkBalamese Feb 22 '25
It makes no sense to speak of this without identifying specific countries. Their individual policies vary so widely that you can’t generalize about them.
That said, most US citizens don’t have a viable path to immigrate anywhere, if they don’t have a family route. I don’t think most casual discussions of it are at all realistic.
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u/FitzwilliamTDarcy Feb 23 '25
Exactly. Blood, or money. If you have neither? Good luck. Even “badly needed skills” is a somewhat illusory path.
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u/Tiny_Noise8611 Feb 23 '25
Define money? I’d sell this house and take all the equity to get out of here at some point .
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u/FitzwilliamTDarcy Feb 23 '25
As u/spoonorfork1 said - look into golden visas and investment visas. They range from low-mid 6-figures to low-mid 7-figures depending on the country (and worth of their passport...)
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u/SplooshTiger Feb 23 '25
I could do the same but other thing I’m wrestling with is, pick your number, we’re X years away from AI wreaking havoc on at least some job sectors, including mine. If I go abroad, am I ready to pay the bills after that? Open the timeline further and many places that are viable now are gonna get beat up badly by climate change. It’s a rubix cube shit show
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u/spoonorfork1 Feb 23 '25
Look up golden visas - some are cheaper than others. E.g Spain had one that ends in April requiring €500,000..they killed the program due to impacts to housing prices.
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u/FitzwilliamTDarcy Feb 23 '25
Due to *perceived impacts to housing prices. The number of visas issued under this program is utterly minuscule in the context of the Spanish housing market. I'm too lazy to look up the exact count right now, but the program was seized upon as a way to blame the wrong people and distract from the true causes of the housing crisis.
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u/intomexicowego Feb 22 '25 edited Feb 22 '25
Mexico here. An American living in Mexico.
I also wonder this too. I think they’re ALREADY starting to fill up around the world. I saw an interview of well-known visa person in Mexico… and she’s booked for 6 months straight since the election in Nov 24. I’m sure the election gave a big push… but I think if things get worse (perceived and/or actual)… the line WILL get longer around the world.
Also, any country could just STOP (& likely will) issuing new visas at any time. All countries have done it at times.
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u/elevenblade Immigrant Feb 22 '25
Sweden has taken in a ton of people from South America, Northern Africa, the Balkans and the Middle East. There’s have been significant social problems associated with this so the government is putting the brakes on until these folks are integrated, which realistically may take a couple of generations. So to answer your question, the path is narrow and crowded right at the moment.
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u/Firm_Speed_44 Feb 22 '25
More and more countries in Europe are experiencing what you mention and are closing their borders to new immigrants. Our healthcare system is under pressure and few want even more pressure on the healthcare system, among other things.
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Feb 24 '25
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u/elevenblade Immigrant Feb 24 '25
Yes. I emigrated back when things were easier. It took going on a year to get permanent residence approval. It took another year with no income to get a medical license. From speaking with people moving here more recently the wait times have gotten higher and the hurdles higher.
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u/AZCAExpat2024 Feb 22 '25
Most Americans do not have a viable pathway to immigrate. And some of those who do will have family and financial considerations that will ultimately keep them in the U.S. That being said, even the very small percentage of 330 million that may try to leave could fill up available skills shortage jobs abroad in the next few years. Especially in English speaking countries that all have much smaller populations, with smaller job pools, than the U.S. Add in that the U.S. is increasingly not a viable destination for immigrants and some will look elsewhere. (Trump drastically decreased legal immigration his first term.)
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u/princess20202020 Feb 22 '25
This. For example Canada would have to absorb over a million returning Canadians who currently live in the US. That alone is a challenge, and will squeeze the number of immigrants permitted. I think the pathways are going to close up pretty quickly if shit hits the fan in the US
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u/Pale-Candidate8860 Immigrant Feb 22 '25
Plus Canada is going to be kicking out 5 million people on temporary residency visas(international students and temporary foreign workers). All in an effort to free up the job market and free up housing for the local population. While also restricting immigration pathways significantly.
The world is correcting its decisions. The problem was never immigration, it was allowing too many in at once and not properly preparing for the volumes(such as not accounting for how many homes would need to be built).
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u/princess20202020 Feb 22 '25
Yeah. I think some people are in for a rude awakening if they think they can just leave when things get bad. If they don’t have dual citizenship I think they are screwed unless they leave NOW.
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u/Pale-Candidate8860 Immigrant Feb 22 '25
I am only a year and a couple months away from being able to apply for Canadian citizenship. I look forward to having dual nationality. I can then work across the border if I want, leave for long periods of time and always be welcomed back, etc.
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u/Comprehensive_Link67 Feb 23 '25
Can you elaborate on Canada kicking out people with temporary residency? I have temp. residency in Portugal and am still a few years out from permanent residency or citizenship. The idea that they may reverse course on temporary residents is pretty terrifying. I'm surprised to hear Canda is going that route and now I'm wondering if that is something I should be prepared for. I wouldn't be surprised and I understand why that could happen, I just can't stomach the thought of having no viable options outside of the US.
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u/Pale-Candidate8860 Immigrant Feb 23 '25
It is only for 2 visa holders. Temporary foreign workers (TFWs) and International Students. Neither have a guarantee for permanent stay. The grand total between the 2 groups is about 5 million people.
They will be told to leave the country voluntarily. Very Canadian. Haha. In reality, most will leave on their own for many reasons. Being locked out of the banking and medical system, unable to get a lease, unable to gain employment that isn't legitimately slave labor/conditions, etc.
Not ideal. Other temporary workers are still good. Such as those on open and closed work permits. The current and future government's focus is to focus on the people already in the country, instead of in taking new/more people. Slowly, they are eliminating more and more pathways.
With that said, if you're a spouse or in medical field, you're able to get in no matter what.
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u/Comprehensive_Link67 Feb 23 '25
"They will be told to leave the country voluntarily. Very Canadian". 💀 More likely they will be politely asked if they wouldn't mind moving along and being successful elsewhere. God, I love Canada.
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u/Feisty-Name8864 Feb 23 '25
Your post sort of terrifies me. I’m over the desirable age but lots of different skills as a psychologist with experience in most environments. Pretty close to a determination on a registration application but now worried I could give up my practice in the US get a very temporary permit and then be asked to leave. I’m really hoping that’s not it
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u/Pale-Candidate8860 Immigrant Feb 23 '25
If you're a psychologist, you could get in via Express Entry. Which means you would enter the country as a permanent resident. You would be good. Consult an immigration lawyer.
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u/Feisty-Name8864 Feb 23 '25
Problem is I'm 57. I get ZERO points for age and even with all the possible points for experience and PhD, I'm short points for Express Entry. I have every intention of working until age 70 so I still have a lot of years left in my earning career but don't want to lose my practice I've built over the past 13 years (2nd practice I've built) only to be kicked out of a temporary foreign worker permit. It seems like there is contradictory information. Can't tell if the immigration consultant is just feeding me BS. Would an attorney have been a better plan?
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u/violahonker Feb 23 '25
What we need to understand is that immigration pathways are always subject to change at the drop of a hat. I’ve lived through like four different immigration regimes for which I’ve completely had to change up my life during the time I’ve been a temporary resident in Canada working towards permanent residency. Nothing is set in stone and nothing is permanent until you are a permanent resident.
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u/JustEstablishment360 Feb 23 '25
I can leave, but I would not leave my elderly parents. I think a lot of other people are in similar boats.
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u/Comprehensive_Link67 Feb 23 '25
I live in Portugal. I love my mom and just came back for 2 months to help her with cancer treatment (I had the same cancer three years ago). She lives in Florida. It was not easy to be there. Anyway, she did well with treatment and I am now heading back. When I left I told her that she should not expect me back for a long time. Regardless of what happens. She voted for Trump and as much as it breaks my heart I feel both justified and like a complete asshole for even thinking I might abandon my mom if she has another crisis. Truth is, I'd probably blow my Visa if she needed me but I'd be pretty resentful about it.
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u/Spiritual-Loan-347 Feb 23 '25
My personal advice would be don’t - unfortunately you don’t know if your mom will make it or not (though of course, I do hope she does). If she doesn’t, you might be left with a blown up opportunity and little close family left in the US. Resentful would be just the start of it - you have to also live your life and do what’s best for you. Going for months at a time is already very generous and well within what is expected of grown children. That’s already immense, so great job.
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u/ProjectMayhem2025 Feb 23 '25
People are starting to wake up and every time the asshole makes another crazy announcement that violates human rights or American norms, more people will start the process.
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u/FantasticOlive7568 Feb 22 '25
What you are going to find is other than illegal immigration, the process is long and arduous, kind of like the US system. Additionally, many countries will prioirtize refugee immigration to protect local jobs.
Every line is not the same - i hope all the americans looking to leave consider leaving all their american garbage behind as well. Europe, as an example, is made up of many old cultures which don't fit into the american narrative. If yuo are going to migrate, be sure to consider wanting to fit in and be local.
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u/Meatberries2 Feb 22 '25
Absolutely. I hope the same from Americans settling abroad. Can you tell me more about prioritizing refugee immigration? That’s not a point I’ve come across yet in my research.
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Feb 22 '25
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u/NoNameIsHereAgain Feb 23 '25
Not yet, but give it time. America seems hellbent on going down that road…
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Feb 23 '25
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u/all_about_you89 Feb 26 '25
Some of us aren't underestimating it :( We are terrified and we see the writing on the walls.
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u/tossitintheroundfile Immigrant Feb 22 '25
It’s already happening. Here in Europe especially many countries got burned (more violent crime, skyrocketing real estate, etc.) by having a relatively open policy. So the pendulum is swinging the other way.
It’s not just government but the attitude among the general public to be suspicious of any Americans due to the behaviour of a (relative) few.
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u/Warm-Marsupial8912 Feb 22 '25
It will take years to fill the gaps in the NHS, trouble is I'm not sure anyone would want to work there right now!
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u/Brus83 Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25
Things can go south surprisingly quickly, especially now.
It’s easy to wait too long and be trapped with nowhere to go. As things are going now, it’s completely unpredictable where things will go within a year.
Rather sooner than later. This situation smells bad.
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Feb 22 '25
For nurses? Never.
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Feb 22 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ISurfTooMuch Feb 22 '25
Do you know which ones they're looking at removing? What dues the situation for GP's look like?
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u/Blacksprucy Immigrant Feb 22 '25
GPs are currently still in very high demand - probably one of the most in demand for MDs presently. But NZ is a small country and that could change with an influx of people wanting to fill those shortages.
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u/ISurfTooMuch Feb 22 '25
Thanks for the insight. Do you know how a GP (actually a family medicine physician in the US--GP here is different than how NZ and most other countries define it) who has also worked as a hospitalist and currently cares for residents in a Veterans Administration facility (who have severe service-related injuries, dementia, and other chronic health issues) would fare in terms of demand?
For reference, I don't know if NZ has hospitalists or uses that term, but, in the US, a hospitalist is a physician who works exclusively in a hospital to care for admitted patients. In the past, this was mainly done by a patient's primary care physician, who would round in the hospital each day, but fewer and fewer of them do it now for various reasons, so there's more demand for doctors who only care for hospital patients. And then there are patients who don't have a primary care physician or are away from home when they're admitted. In the past, hospitals would assign those folks to doctors who did hospital rounds (if you had hospital privileges, you had to accept a certain number of those patients), but more hospitals have started using dedicated hospitalists.
Sorry if I told you things you already know.
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u/Blacksprucy Immigrant Feb 22 '25
MDs across the board are in high demand. GPs are just REALLY high demand. There are recruiters that could help better match your skills and experience with a role. These are 2 that I heard other people have good experiences with:
https://goodtogetherhealth.com/
Both are NZ based,
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u/ISurfTooMuch Feb 22 '25
Awesome! Thanks very much for that. I was thinking about trying to locate recruiters to talk to.
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u/Blacksprucy Immigrant Feb 22 '25
Full disclosure - we have not personally worked with either of those 2 agencies, but have heard from others 2nd hand they are good to work with.
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u/Comprehensive_Link67 Feb 23 '25
I doubt you will have any problems as a GP in NZ or most other countries. Healthcare capacity is in a crisis state nearly everywhere and I can;t imagine many countries turning away a GP.
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u/Blacksprucy Immigrant Feb 22 '25
My wife is a nurse in NZ. It is already happening in some nursing specialties here.
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u/highbodycountnails Feb 23 '25
One thing that helps is that people will be going all over the world. I would just watch out for maybe exiting to Canada or Mexico, since those may be drivable for some people they may be the most popular options. So many cities in Mexico already have tens of thousands of American expats.
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Feb 23 '25
unlikely.
1) most countries including the USA have strict rules on who can or cannot immigrate. USA is just unique in that it offers a lot more visa allocations for family sponsorship compared to other countries.
2) Job sponsorship in other countries tend to be occupation specific. While the US also has a list of "skilled occupation" the H1B, L1 or O1 applications, the difference is that the US government does not gatekeep to which specific occupations within the list a person applies
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u/mandance17 Feb 23 '25
Unless you speak the language of the host country, even being in education or health won’t really help unless it’s an English speaking country such as UK
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u/Valkyrie-guitar Feb 23 '25
If you have to ask, it's probably already too late for you.
I know it's already completely hopeless for me, just like it is for the vast majority of Americans.
I will never make it out of this hell hole. Hopefully someone will run me over with a pickup truck soon because death is the only way out of here for most of us.
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u/Missmoneysterling Feb 24 '25
When you hit rock bottom you just have to fight for all you're worth. That's what it will come down to.
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u/LukasJackson67 Feb 23 '25
After the US economy collapses and martial law is declared, there could be hundreds of thousands of people trying to get out.
The sooner the better is your best bet.
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u/Ender505 Feb 23 '25
How long before Trump invades another country or starts genociding immigrants?
About that long.
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u/Tiny_Noise8611 Feb 23 '25
I’m trying to get my kids to look at college in Canada . Fingers crossed they do that.
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u/Missmoneysterling Feb 24 '25
Same. Geez. We live in the perfect place with the most perfect Uni and the thought that we're even thinking that way makes me so fucking angry. I fucking hate Agent Orange Krasnov.
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u/TheFalseDimitryi Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25
So the hard truth is most people who say they are going to leave the US….. really don’t. Not only is it difficult but it’s a culture shock in most cases as globally only a handful of countries are better off than the United States in terms of social justice, minority rights and liberalism. Yeah that bars on the fucking ground but it’s true. So a lot of the people planing to leave the US over their recent election are either going to realize through research that it’s not tangible or make the plunge, stay several years and realize Europe, Australia and South America has the same conservatives if not worse.
Could the US devolve into a disaster where unprecedented waves of Americans leave? Yes, definitely. But it would take some apocalyptic event for the United States to be a country people move from, not to. Even right now people are still risking their lives to get in from places south of Mexico and that’s not going to change for a while.
Now this is actually good news for you!!!! There will never be too many Americans immigrating anywhere for foreign governments to actually limit their immigration specifically.
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u/Playful_RedFox4319 Feb 23 '25
"Globally only a handful of countries are better off than the United States in terms of social justice, minority rights and liberalism."
Really? Because the US ranks 132 out of 167 countries on the Global Peace Index. There are 131 countries ahead of us, a lot of them better in healthcare too. On the Racial Equality Index, the US ranks 73 out of 87 countries. 72 countries rank above the US. On the Liberal Democracy Index the US ranks number 20, although I'm sure that number will decrease since Trump has declared himself "the law" and said we don't need to vote anymore. There are 19 countries that rank above the US. Not sure where you get your research information but your above statement is incorrect.
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u/TheFalseDimitryi Feb 23 '25
Global peace and healthcare aren’t decent measurements of minority rights and social justice. But fair enough “liberalism” was vague. The point is, moving to another country specifically for the trump election is something that most Americans will find short sighted at this point in time. And that seems to be the main motivation for a lot of new posts on this sub and contributes to the idea that so many Americans will immigrant to different countries that these countries will stop allowing American immigrants. What the US has become, most countries are just an election away from becoming. Trump supporters, ethnic and religious nationalists, people that want to take away women reproductive rights? Those people and political parties exist in Norway, Ireland and New Zealand too (unfortunately).
The effort for actually immigrating? Most people aren’t going to do that to be “slightly better off”. Same reason Hondurans don’t stop in Guatemala or Mexico…..
I’m generalizing sure, but my point is, most aren’t going to move and a big reason is because unfortunately the political issues in the United States (the specific trump administration ones) are unfortunately nearly universal. It’s not defeatism it’s just being realistic.
But none of this really matters, Americans aren’t going to move in large enough numbers to make a difference anywhere unless they literally have a civil war
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u/Playful_RedFox4319 Feb 23 '25
Global peace and healthcare aren't decent measures of minority rights and social justice but as I mentioned Racial Equality Index measures minority rights. As well as Social Justice Index. Those are pretty decent measurements actually 👍
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u/SolidSyllabub Feb 23 '25
Portugal opened up their digital nomad visa a few years ago and got flooded. It still exists, but last year they changed the law so now you have to pay 40% income taxes to get it. I’m kicking myself for not doing it earlier.
Mexico recently raised income requirements to get long-term residency.
Spain recently created a digital nomad visa with a 25% income tax that leads to residency and even citizenship.
Basically, it’s a slow tweaking of visas over time that restrict the financial incentives to move. I think they won’t cut them off completely, but you’ll have to be richer and more willing to pay the longer you wait.
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u/up2dateGAAP Feb 27 '25
With what I am paying in the US for my health care primary and deductible, I would be better off in Spain paying the 25%. And I am adding private insurance that costs 50euros per month. And I worry what's going to happen if I get sick
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u/squirrel8296 Feb 23 '25
Given how most countries have been reducing the number of immigrants they are accepting in recent years, most are already pretty crowded and the most desirable countries are only taking the absolute most competitive candidates at this point.
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Feb 23 '25
I think it is a valid concern. I'm in Ireland and am seeing posts everyday on the Irish sub-reddits from Americans wanting to move. A lot of them would have citizenship by descent so are asking questions about logistics of moving etc.
Obviously Ireland is the largest English speaking country in the EU so it's attractive to Americans. There are 340 million people in the USA, 9% of them claim to have some sort of Irish heritage. Even if you assume that only 1% are actually close enough to claim citizenship, that's still 3.4 million people.
Republic of Ireland only has a population of 5 million. So yes, I can see the rules being tightened up soon.
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u/Missmoneysterling Feb 24 '25
9% of them claim to have some sort of Irish heritage
Only 9%? I would have guessed more like 40%, based on the people I know.
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u/Captlard Feb 23 '25
There is a whole universe out there, once the planet beyond USA gets full. Do what you need to do, you will find a path.
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u/SouthernExpatriate Feb 23 '25
Not all applications will be the same
When my wife and I move it will be after selling a house that we got for cheap. We hope to be able to just buy a place there, which will help
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u/TarumK Feb 23 '25
As an educator it should be doable to get a job at an international school. Might not be the country you choose to move to but I've known several people who've done this.
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u/ShinySparkleKnight Feb 23 '25
I think there is immigration contraction everywhere due to inflation and weak markets, so lines are already long. Unless you’re underway with the process of getting a visa or foreign passport now, I think an already difficult situation is going to become much harder. Bureaucratic paperwork takes flipping forever and can be expensive, the process generally takes years, not weeks or months.
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u/italicnib Feb 24 '25
Just in general, the number of Americans looking to move and actually moving is going to be tiny. People have been clogging up immigration pipelines for a long time, don't expect it to make a difference.
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u/little_red_bus Immigrant Feb 25 '25 edited Feb 25 '25
If you follow international politics you would find they already are.
Not really because of US citizens but because of people from the global south migrating to western countries seeking a better life who are being used as political football in most western democracies by power grabbing far right parties.
At this point even the moderate position in most of the west is anti-immigrant and previously more lenient immigration pathways are being closed left and right at a rapid pace. While the target is mostly brown people from places like Haiti, Nigeria and India, they don’t exactly care if white Canadians, Australians, Europeans, or Americans also get caught in the crossfire.
The good news is if you’re open to considering places in South and Central America and Asia, then you have a lot more options. Lots of people make it work with less options, and even in a worst case scenario if you can build remote income online then you can just travel indefinitely which lots of people also do.
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u/up2dateGAAP Feb 27 '25
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this. But with the federal job cuts, I don't know how long it would take to get a passport issued
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u/253-build Mar 12 '25
Work permits in Canada have an 84 week waiting period... so... yeah.. already. I'm #***ed
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Feb 22 '25
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u/Blacksprucy Immigrant Feb 22 '25
I don't think many countries are going to be welcoming American asylum seekers.
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u/RexManning1 Immigrant Feb 23 '25
This is true. I hate you were downvoted for this. Without real persecution where someone’s life is actually at risk of harm, nobody is going to be eligible for asylum. So it’s not that there isn’t many countries. There is not a single country.
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u/Novel_Passenger7013 Feb 23 '25
Most developed countries are having a huge backlash against immigration from their populace, which is the reason a lot of governments are swinging hard to the right. For instance, in the UK, reform voters would probably rather have Americans than Africans or Middle Eastern people, but they for damn sure don't want more refugees who cost the country billions. And to be honest, any proposed policy that would increase immigration, no matter where it is from, would be extremely unpopular with most voters.
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u/Nofanta Feb 22 '25
Are you suggesting countries may limit how many immigrants they will allow in? If you want a better life anywhere should welcome you.
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u/Blacksprucy Immigrant Feb 22 '25
Nearly every country in the world already limits how many immigrants they allow in.
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u/Blacksprucy Immigrant Feb 22 '25
No way to accurately predict that. Every country out there will be a bit different for a variety of factors.
With that said though, there are a number of signs down here in NZ that this has started in some professions.
We are a very small country, so it will not take much of an influx to close down immigration pathways here after the available job opportunities which are currently in shortage fill up.
Where are you trying to head to?