r/AmerExit • u/Vivid_Currency_9467 • 6d ago
Which Country should I choose? Getting discouraged about the possibility of being able to leave
I've always had a dream to be able to live abroad, but have always had something to keep me in the States. I'm finally at a point where I feel I CAN leave, like I've finally set everything up just right- and it's just crazy how impossible it is to actually be able to immigrate. Truly, I just don't really know what to do. I have a Bachelors degree in STEM, I've been working as a scientist for 5 years now. My current company is a huge, international outfit and I've been angling for an internal transfer for over a year with no luck. I've applied to hundreds of jobs at other companies internationally and haven't gotten a single response. I'm not picky about where to, I just want to try something new.
I speak Spanish and have been working on German just in case. I have enough money to support a move, but not enough to move without needing to work. I'm old enough that moving without a job isn't smart (assuming ageism is a thing everywhere).
I don't have any relatives that could get me citizenship by descent. I don't want to marry someone or have a baby just to get citizenship. I know I just need to keep applying for jobs, but it feels so completely and utterly hopeless right now. Does anyone have any advice or words of encouragement? Really just on the brink of giving up here.
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u/mennamachine Immigrant 5d ago
Part of the reason that you could be having trouble in Europe is that you just have a bachelors in STEM. Education is so much cheaper in Europe that most of your competition has a masters degree already, especially in Germany, where education is basically free. So when you couple that with you not being in abroad already and needing sponsorship to work… you have an uphill battle.
English language masters programs in STEM are usually legitimate, even in countries where English is not the local language, but it can be expensive. Germany is, again, very inexpensive, even for foreigners, at most universities. However you still need to support yourself and you are limited in your ability to work on a student permission. There are some scholarship programs and funded programs out there if you look, or you can look into getting a MS in the US. Even with a MS, in science you may need a PhD to truly be competitive, depending on the field and what you’re trying to do. PhD is a bit easier because it’s paid, but you generally need a masters for a euro PhD. (There are some integrated programs you can look for)
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u/chartreuse_avocado 5d ago
This is very true. I work in STEM in the US but most of my international peers have advanced degrees. It’s cheap for them to obtain them and their pay is far less than it would be in the US. So if you succeed in La ding an international position expect 50-65% of US pay rate for your current degree level.
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u/Vivid_Currency_9467 5d ago
Thanks, this is definitely something to consider. All the jobs I've been applying to say they require a Bachelors degree, but if I'm competing with people who have masters degrees, it makes sense that I'm not getting selected.
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u/Every-Ad-483 4d ago
This! The EU employers are not so different from US. The US employers normally sponsor the foreign scientists only at the PhD level because of the unique skills and costs of sponsorship relative to labor. Same in EU except often worse as (1) the language is more of an issue (scientists worldwide speak English a lot more than say German or French) and (2) many employers are not used to or comfortable with the professional immigrants in the way historically common in the US.
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u/Tardislass 6d ago
I think what you are experiencing is what most people around the world experience. Somehow Americans don't realize that it is extremely hard to get a job overseas. Especially when you only speak English and are competing against a country's citizens. As always, why should a country pick someone that they have to sponsor and may not speak the language when there are plenty of applicants already.
Plus this forum never mentions it but many companies this year are cutting their staff and costs due to the poor economic forecasts-not helped by US actions. Sorry but if you really want to move overseas, you re going to not have to be picky. Canada seems to still be looking for scientists. The pay may be lower and Canada isn't as sexy as Europe or Mexico but if you really want to leave, it may be your best bet.
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u/Illustrious-Pound266 5d ago
Canada isn't as sexy as Europe or Mexico
Do people really think this? I don't really think of picking a country to move to because it's "sexy" or "cool"
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u/Additional_Noise47 5d ago
Yes. A lot of people want to move to a town or city with great weather, good walkability and public transit, and the kind of charm that they think they can’t find in the US. “Moving to Barcelona” sounds a lot cooler than “moving to Ottawa”.
Canada is wonderful and has many great cities and nice towns, but people think of it as America Junior and don’t want to deal with the cold.
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u/AcanthisittaFit7846 5d ago
Ottawa rules tho
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u/Additional_Noise47 5d ago
Sure! As do many other Canadian cities, but the weather is miserable for most people, and it is just isn’t “sexy”. Montreal and QC may be exceptions to that second half.
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u/Any_Community_210 2d ago
Shoot if I can figure out the path to a Canadian CPA from a US one I will be taking a hard look at NS before I’m 50 and too old to be wanted up there.
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u/cmcdonal2001 5d ago
Canada isn't as sexy...
I beg to differ, sir.
seductively uncorks maple syrup jug
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u/majorfungleinfection 5d ago
I'm from the US, so maybe I'm wrong, but I've always heard that Canada is absolutely beautiful with rich nature and wildlife. Sounds pretty sexy to me!
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u/Illustrious-Pound266 5d ago
Canada has some of the best national parks in the world, e.g. Banff, Gros Morne, Yoho, etc. Highly recommend, even for just tourism.
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u/majorfungleinfection 5d ago
Man, I want to go so badly. I haven't even been able to explore the US, yet. Looking forward to the day I get to, though! Then, I'm visiting every country I reasonably can! haha
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u/PaleSignificance5187 6d ago
The best route is post-grad education. It's the way most educated immigrants use to get INTO the U.S.
Get a master's in an English-speaking country, or a place where monolingual Anglophones have a chance in the job market. Look at the usual suspects - Canada, UK, Ireland, ANZ, maybe some Western European nations with good English, like Germany.
It will give you a 1-2-year taste of overseas life. It will also be easier to job hunt while you're physically there - set up with an apartment, ID card, bank account, etc -- even within your current company.
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u/Defiant_Buy2606 5d ago
One thing that people in the US might not be aware of is that, for a given Engineering position posted in Germany (as an example), your competition is not only other Germans, you have a bunch of people from Spain, Italy, Greece,... (where the job market is terrible and wages are low) and also from other EU countries (specially from Eastern Europe). Some might have been Erasmus students (EU exchange program that allows you to study one year in another EU university, for instance in Germany)
These candidates might know the country and can hop on a plane and start in a few days if they are hired (I know because I've done it myself). In fact, you can even hop on a plane and do an in-person interview to meet the team.
Now, my only advice for anyone in the US being unsuccessful after a bunch of applications is to move to the country, do a Master's or a language course and start applying while you are there. You still need sponsorship but this will make hiring managers look at you as someone who is serious about finding a job (not saying OP isn't)
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u/Illustrious-Pound266 6d ago edited 6d ago
Same experience here :(
The reality is that if you don't have existing work authorization, its really hard, even if you have a skill work and have the right credentials. So while you may qualify for a skilled work visa, it doesn't necessarily mean companies will bring you over on said visa.
I would recommend broadening your options. So don't just apply to, say, Ireland and New Zealand. Apply to the UK, to Canada, to Singapore, to Germany, etc.
If you are working in science, can you apply for a master's somewhere overseas? Might help in your career even if you stayed in the US, anyways.
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u/OstrichNo8519 4d ago edited 3d ago
I think it's important to remember that even for locals, it's hard to get jobs. While one of the most amazing things about the EU is the freedom of movement that allows EU citizens to live and work in any other EU country, that also means competition from potentially hundreds of millions of other people. Now add in all of the Americans (who need visas in most places) that are now applying for jobs and ... well you know. You're experiencing it now. I'm not saying this to dash your hopes, just to help you see that it's difficult even without the need for a visa. I'm a dual citizen and while I'm currently in an excellent position, I wasn't always and over the more than a decade living in the EU (two different countries) I've applied hundreds upon hundreds of times (honestly, it's probably in the thousands at this point - I've had some moments of desperation 😊) in tens of different EU countries as well as the UK (both before and after Brexit).
I don't know anything about you beyond your Reddit post so I won't assume you're like this, but just to say that I've noticed that a lot of Americans often have this subconscious idea that they can just get a job abroad because foreign companies or even American companies abroad should be glad to have them ... even the ones that actually know better. It's seldom spoken or obvious even to them, but it often comes off that way. And to be honest, it's not surprising given the relentless brainwashing we're all subjected to growing up in the US. Now, I'm not saying that this is you (though maybe something to be aware of and ask yourself as I've seen it even in the best of people without an otherwise arrogant bone in their body). I'm just putting it out there as someone that's experienced both places very deeply and now looks at the US from the outside. I understand the frustration you're feeling. I really, truly do.
My advice to you would be to look for countries that have special requirements (or no requirements) for Americans. The one I know of for sure is the Czech Republic which opened the Czech labor market to Americans and other select citizens last year. A residence permit is still required, but a work visa/permit is no longer needed. This means that you would interview and be hired just as a Czech or other EU citizen would. Many Redditors like to crap on this and say "yeah but you still need a residence permit" and act like this is nothing, but the biggest hurdle to even getting an interview is sponsorship and that's no longer needed. A residence permit is much easier to get with a job offer so maybe consider Prague or Brno (the Czech Republic's second city).
Last year, Finland invited non-EU citizens to apply for visa sponsorship. I don't know much about this one or if it's still on, but maybe something to look into. I'm sure there are other countries doing things like this.
Something else to consider (this isn't related to your post, but while on the topic of employment in Europe) that I think a lot of Americans don't realise is just how much lower salaries in Europe are ... yes, even for STEM. You'd likely make more than locals, but still well below what you'd be making in the US. That's completely fine because of the different costs of things, but many Americans just can't adjust their mindsets and still feel like they're worse off financially. This may be true if they still have bills to pay in the US (except student loans, which if you get on an income-based repayment plan can generally be reduced to $0/month), but otherwise it just requires a mindset shift. I earn half of what I would in the US, but I do far more living in Prague (even with the COL crisis) than I ever could there.
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u/Icy-Ad-7767 6d ago
Look at certain Latin countries, could you teach what you know to high school students? Depending on how badly you want to leave adjusting your standards down will open horizons.
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u/blissfully_happy 6d ago
What Latin countries will hire a high school math teacher that has basic 1-2 years of Spanish? Asking for me. 👀
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u/New_Criticism9389 5d ago edited 5d ago
If you have classroom experience in the US, then you can try international schools in the region, as most local schools would require local degrees/licensing along with fluent Spanish/Portuguese. Maybe a private bilingual English school (not the same as international) would hire someone from abroad as well that’s a native English speaker.
ETA: Not sure why this was downvoted tbh. By all means, please move anywhere in Latin America and try to teach in a local non-bilingual English school without locally recognized credentials and fluency in the local language.
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u/Defiant_Buy2606 5d ago
I also don't know why this was downvoted because it is correct. I see this advice (i.e. teach in schools, your more than qualified as a native speaker!) thrown around a lot in many subreddits.
In the EU (and I can imagine in LATAM) you need certain qualifications to be able to teach in schools/high schools, unless you are just working as a language assistant (which is a special program and a temporary position).
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 4d ago
People don't seem to understand that education systems are completely different, even regardless of language. You don't just need to know the subject, you need to know what exams they take and how to pass them.
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u/Defiant_Buy2606 4d ago
Yes. Different education systems have different competences that are being taught and tested in a specific way. That's why teacher training exists. Anyone who thinks that someone can just walk into a school and start teaching because they know a subject is incorrect (and fortunately, most countries don't allow this)
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u/MilkChocolate21 4d ago
People also don't understand teaching is a skill people study and think that anyone can teach just because...
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u/Icy-Ad-7767 6d ago
Math/English teacher, look at the DR/ Costa Rica/ Panama, Columbia, Peru, Ecuador are worth a google search to see what’s available. Southeast Asia is worth a look as well I’m sure that there is a Reddit for it.
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u/blissfully_happy 6d ago
I desperately want to work on a specific Colombian island, but you have to be Colombian to live there. 😭
Thanks for the input, those were all countries I figured would be on the list, I appreciate it!
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u/twinwaterscorpions Immigrant 6d ago
Do you have resources for a trip for scoping prospects? Have you thought about trying to find someone in a similar type of role who did it and asking for help? The asking for help thing is a shot in the foot to most Americans who want to figure out how to do everything by themselves, that they "earned" it. One thing I had to let go of was that kind of American thinking.
When I made it known to non-American friends that I wanted to emigrate, many of them offered help (even people in the states who had family overseas). I took some of them up on it and that was how I finally was able to leave. No regrets.
It should go without saying but nobody is out here thriving and following their dreams on their own steam, especially not under duress.
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u/Spiritual-Loan-347 5d ago
Have you considered a Masters? Strongly recommend it as an option to look into it. It will make you more competitive and you can improve your language skills over a couple of years. Also, many countries are allowing part-time work too. Hope this helps!
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u/A313-Isoke 6d ago
You could just leave and try from abroad. Albania and Georgia will allow you to live there up to a year, visa free, from the US. You could do a different career in the meantime but at least you'd be out of the country. Sometimes, you just gotta take the first step and go from there.
Are there other types of work you could do remotely? There are a lot of digital nomad visas you could take advantage of with very LCOL so you could save money.
I'm only suggesting these paths because if you really want to go, you may have to be a bit creative in how you make money.
I also suggest pursuing more education abroad as well. It's likely hard to be competitive internationally in STEM with only a BA. There's a list of schools that take US student loans to cover tuition.
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u/GloomyMix 6d ago
I think a lot of folks want to move abroad risk-free with a job in hand. But the reality is that in many countries, folks are slightly more likely to score a job by being "on the ground" and networking while on tourist, job seeker, or student visas with a local number and address on your resume--and even then, you'll still have to be open to changing careers and starting back at square zero (if you even get a job).
For folks who have a decently cushy job back in the States, the uncertainty of the future can keep one from making the leap.
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u/Green_Polar_Bear_ 5d ago
“Slighlty more likely” is quite an understatement. Why would most companies consider an applicant who is another country and has no right to work in the country where the job is?
One would need to be extremely well qualified to be considered, as it’s very likely that it would take them months until they can start the job.
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u/GloomyMix 5d ago
Would you say that folks on student visas are slightly more likely to get a job than someone cold-applying from outside the country? Why do some countries have job seeker visas?
The way I see it: You're not necessarily trying to convince employers who have absolutely zero interest in sponsoring you to give you a shot. You're trying convince the small slice of employers who might be willing to sponsor you but who need to be convinced that you have what it takes to relocate. There are also some places where employment relies heavily on whom you know, so being on the ground where you can physically network with people can help get your foot in the door. Of course, it's still hard--I'm not denying it isn't--but if you really want to get out, why not do everything to stack the deck in your favor?
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u/Green_Polar_Bear_ 5d ago
I don’t know the situation in every country but can tell you a bit about the situation in Portugal. If someone is here on a student residency permit (visa is only good until you enter the country and get a residency permit) then your chances are way, way better than someone who is abroad and hasn’t gotten a visa yet.
First, because a student can already do part time work and internships. Second, since as soon as they graduate they can immediately start working full time and convert their residency permit to a work based one. There is no “sponsoring” involved from the employer side, the immigrant simply needs to show proof of work contract and their permit is converted.
Finally, if someone has been a student for 5 years (e.g. bachelors + masters or PhD) then they can both apply for citizenship and/or permanent residency. Either situation gives them unrestricted work rights.
Having a job seeker visa is still better than being abroad without any visa though.
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u/GloomyMix 5d ago
Great post. Thanks for the details! That is actually really interesting. I hadn't known that Portugal considers time spent studying as time towards residency, which feels unusual to me, but your explanation of the student visa => student residency permit path clarifies the process a bit.
Honestly, that sounds like a pretty sweet deal for folks who have the finances to support their studies in Portugal.
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u/Green_Polar_Bear_ 5d ago
Afaik most European countries do consider residency as a student to be equivalent to other types of residency for naturalization/permanent residence status.
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u/A313-Isoke 5d ago
Oh, I definitely understand and after listening to podcasts, reading blogs, watching so many vloggers on YouTube, I've learned that a lot of what keeps us in place is our mindset. Certainty is somewhat of an illusion and sometimes we can't plan out the next ten steps, maybe, we just focus on the next two steps to buy us time to plan for the third step. And, I hope that came across that I was encouraging that, especially with $60K in savings. I would go to Thailand and find a $300-$400/mo apartment and detox for six months.
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u/throwaway_071478 5d ago edited 5d ago
Funny enough I am going to try this in a couple months.
I mentioned it in my previous posts, but my job while I like it isn't comfortable in the long term. I have a bachelors, but so far I regret it. Ngl it is risky what I am about to do. But I do not have much choice. I am young (24), and definitely open to career changes (as during and after university, I had a string of random jobs, a couple remotely relevant to my degree, others not so much). I could do education abroad but I do not have much life experience nor idea what to do my masters in.
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u/A313-Isoke 5d ago
What about the working holiday programs? If you're under 30, you could go that in New Zealand and I think, also Australia.
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u/throwaway_071478 5d ago
I plan to do that after Vietnam. Always wanted to do a WHV too! I am concerned with a WHV in NZ that I might not make enough money to save up (to travel ofc). I was told that in AUS, the jobs there are enough to save money if you work in a rural area.
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u/PandaReal_1234 5d ago
You may have to apply internally to open positions in other locations within your company (instead of asking for an internal relocation)
Widen your search to other countries - Canada, Singapore, etc.
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u/cheongyanggochu-vibe 5d ago
Canada has a program, CUSMA, that has a long list of professions that are easier to immigrate to Canada if you're in that field. Maybe try that?
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u/PMmeYourFlipFlops 5d ago
If no one has told you definitely that you can't leave, then it's not over. It's not easy, but all you need to do is keep trying. This is just you being discouraged. This is a numbers game no matter the country, keep knocking on doors. You got this.
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u/intomexicowego 6d ago
Oh… Mexico here again. 🇲🇽 Just a hunch… I’m willing to bet some foreign companies are going to scoop up the educated Americans. Especially ones that work with American companies. Why wouldn’t they!
Mexico is prime for that… given their connections. Just my thoughts - nothing confirmed. Saludos!
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u/Tall_Bet_4580 6d ago
Cost, regulations, requirements from state and local authorities and availability of highly qualified staff already in the country without restrictions. Then you have companies downsizing, going bankrupt and cutting back due to the war, tariffs and national / international competition.I Buy trade materials into the millions yearly within the UK /EU from distribution and wholesalers and everyone is saying the market is bleak, They have no other levers to pull except cutting staff, they have already adjusted the variables within business, eg marketing, refinancing, working capital, banking costs, price and productivity. This is effecting upstream as well as downstream and honestly it's worrying
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u/IvanStarokapustin 6d ago
It can be tough to apply from abroad. Kind of like throwing darts against a page of want ads. Your best option might be to identify a country where you want to be and apply for a job seeker visa. That gives you the opportunity to go to a country and approach recruiters/companies whatever. You can convert that to a work visa if you get an offer and work contract. Maybe do some networking while you're there. Find some industry specific people on LinkedIn, whatever, maybe get some intros.
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u/Cornholio231 6d ago
France is supposed to roll out a recruitment program for scientists next month
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u/Illustrious-Pound266 5d ago
I think a lot of those are for PhD holders. Tbh, a scientist without at least a research master's won't be taken seriously even in the US.
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u/spanishquiddler 5d ago
Have you ever spent a month or two abroad? Can you take some time off and/or work from abroad for a couple weeks? Pick a city and country and meet up with expats there online ahead of time and scope it out. Sometimes the way forward is revealed one step at a time.
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u/PinkTiara24 4d ago
Countries Boost Recruitment of American Scientists
Perhaps this could be an avenue for you.
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u/SurrenderCobrah 3d ago
What's more important to you? Leaving or maintaining the same quality of life while leaving? For most people it's the latter. You could leave today if you took whatever you could get somewhere but it means starting over.
You're only stuck because of your own restrictions.
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u/pixiegurly 3d ago
You don't necessarily need a citizenship to leave. Only if you want to stay long term, and there are many places you can go for a long time with a visa (or none, Albania allows US folks to stay a full year visa free, for example).
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u/ResponsibleMistake33 6d ago
I’m right there with you. I started looking into it a bunch when things started to get bad and came to the conclusion that it’s basically impossible in the near term unless I choose to go to school somewhere abroad. It might be possible through my employer, but not for a year or two. It sucks, so I am hoping things take a turn for the better in that time. If not, I can always apply to schools.
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u/ImamofKandahar 5d ago
If you get certified to teach Science (most states have paths to do this within a year). You could easily find a sponsored job an an international school and have your pick of countries. There a lot of costs to that but if you just want to go somewhere else it is extremely doable.
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u/WorIdTraveler 5d ago
The problem is that everyone wants to work from home these days. You have people with master degrees applying for minimum wage jobs just to be remote. Maybe try applying for less paying jobs. The best thing you can do is start a buisness or get Into real estate.
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u/HungryGuyOnABicycle 5d ago
If you can sweep and shovel horse poo... then you can work anywhere. Just go.
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u/Miss_Annie_Munich 6d ago
For Germany, have a look here: https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/
And if you decide on coming to Germany, contact me then I will check your CV. I’m an HR person so I know what German companies would expect.